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Old
06-25-2010, 07:39 AM
  #101
Blitz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
This always happends: Whenever a Leaf player is rumoured to go somewhere, the player on the opposite team is vastly overrated. Dustin Brown is no "Untouchable Young Star" as most of you are painting him as. He's not that good.
Yeah... I've been watching him since his days in Guelph - maybe they should just give him to Buffalo... That'd show him!!! (and make my whole year)

Are you kidding me?!? The kid is the heart and soul of every team he plays for. Be it the Storm, Manchester, Los Angeles - All of them!!! He has been the Kings' team glue since the day he stepped into the dressing room for the first time... He is as untouchable as anyone on the Kings "untouchable" list.

Just because Leaf Nation severely over-rates Kaberle does not mean anyone can be had for him... Brown is THAT Good!!!

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06-25-2010, 07:47 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
Yeah... I've been watching him since his days in Guelph - maybe they should just give him to Buffalo... That'd show him!!! (and make my whole year)

Are you kidding me?!? The kid is the heart and soul of every team he plays for. Be it the Storm, Manchester, Los Angeles - All of them!!! He has been the Kings' team glue since the day he stepped into the dressing room for the first time... He is as untouchable as anyone on the Kings "untouchable" list.

Just because Leaf Nation severely over-rates Kaberle does not mean anyone can be had for him... Brown is THAT Good!!!
He's really not.

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06-25-2010, 08:03 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
He's really not.
Yeah, he is. 30+ goal-scoring leaders, that can play in most situations are generally regarded as that good.

You'd have to add to Kaberle to get Brown, especially since the guy is on the wrong side of 30, and is on a one-year deal.

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06-25-2010, 08:08 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by JKG33 View Post
if the Leafs trade Kaberle to the Kings, I want Schenn coming back.
i hope you're kidding........

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06-25-2010, 08:10 AM
  #105
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I'd cry tears of Joy if we got Brown for Kabs...

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06-25-2010, 10:11 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Zal View Post
Yeah, he is. 30+ goal-scoring leaders, that can play in most situations are generally regarded as that good.

You'd have to add to Kaberle to get Brown, especially since the guy is on the wrong side of 30, and is on a one-year deal.
He potted 33 ONE time, and that was under Crawford's defense-free, home-run pass, no accountability offense.

His next highest total is 24 goals, which he has hit twice. He is FAR from an offensive force, despite the fact that this team keeps giving him top unit PP numbers and a ton of minutes on the first line. Now, if he did "the little things", you might excuse those numbers, but that is his major flaw - he gets lost away from the puck - bad reads, bad positioning - just bad hockey.

Plus he was removed from the PK this year, and the unit as a whole (probably coincidentally) saw much improved numbers.

Brown just is nowhere as valuable as some of you think.

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06-25-2010, 10:18 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by bland View Post
despite the fact that this team keeps giving him top unit PP numbers and a ton of minutes on the first line.
I don't think playing on the 2nd pp unit and playing on a mix of the 2nd and 3rd lines class as 'top unit pp numbers and a ton of minutes on the first line'

He played on the first line for what 11 games after Williams was injured before Simmonds was put there?

He also played on the top pp unit for about 10 games while Smyth was injured

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06-25-2010, 10:19 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKG33 View Post
if the Leafs trade Kaberle to the Kings, I want Schenn coming back.
How is He coming back if He was never there in the first place?

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06-25-2010, 10:23 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
I think you may have unrealistically high expectations - I could see Hickey, but Schenn's a pipe dream, but thats just my opinion so I could be wrong too - Don't include Aulie in that list, I watched him every game before he was traded and he was 5/6 on the Heat depth charts, so unless he improved 100% he's miles away from the NHL
It's not a matter of unrealstically high expectations, it's simply a case where Burke cannot trade Kaberle for futures unless it's an overpayment. Everyone on this board thinks prospects are sure things, they're not. Hickey may have been drafted 4th overall, but when a guy is drafted that high you expect him to be a regular NHL player by now. Hickey played a total of 19 games this year. His stock has dropped significantly. Schenn on the other hand hasn't seen his stock drop, but he very well could as he attempts to make it to the next level. While Leafs fans will tell you Brayden Schenn is the greatest thing since sliced bread, the reality is that he's nothing more than a prospect who could flop.

If the Leafs are trading for futures like Schenn + Hickey; it does nothing to help their current team. All it does is allow them to move players like Blacker, Paradis, etc., to try and get top 6 forwards.


As for Aulie, he may be miles away from the NHL, but so is Teubert right now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Out of the box NHL d-man?

The guy could not even crack the Monarchs at the end of the season. A former Top 15 pick sent for two straight seasons to the ECHL, and you think everything is ok? Maybe in 2009 when he was 19 and got sent to Ontario you could make excuses, this season he was 20 years old with parts of 4 seasons (3 full seasons) of junior hockey and still couldn't crack the Monarchs, I'm sorry thats unacceptable for someone taken so high. As of now flop is the correct word. I am not expecting every player to be Myers, but I do expect to see some kind of growth from a player in the two years after they have been drafted. The guy has progressed very little if at all since the Kings drafted him. Especially in comparisons to almost every other d-man taken in that draft. Maybe when he progresses in any way at all you can start to say he is a legit NHL prospect, but as of now he looks like another bad pick from the Kings, just like Brian Boyle, who everyone else defended to no end despite showing little signs of being anything more than a fringe NHL'er.

Honest questions...if you re-did the 2008 draft where would you take him?

If the Kings put him on the block what kind of return would DL get?
Finally someone who gets it. Teubert may still have outside potential, but every time he fails to make an AHL team his chances drop, because it's a sign that he's not developing.

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Old
06-25-2010, 10:36 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Out of the box NHL d-man?

The guy could not even crack the Monarchs at the end of the season. A former Top 15 pick sent for two straight seasons to the ECHL, and you think everything is ok? Maybe in 2009 when he was 19 and got sent to Ontario you could make excuses, this season he was 20 years old with parts of 4 seasons (3 full seasons) of junior hockey and still couldn't crack the Monarchs, I'm sorry thats unacceptable for someone taken so high. As of now flop is the correct word. I am not expecting every player to be Myers, but I do expect to see some kind of growth from a player in the two years after they have been drafted. The guy has progressed very little if at all since the Kings drafted him. Especially in comparisons to almost every other d-man taken in that draft. Maybe when he progresses in any way at all you can start to say he is a legit NHL prospect, but as of now he looks like another bad pick from the Kings, just like Brian Boyle, who everyone else defended to no end despite showing little signs of being anything more than a fringe NHL'er.

Honest questions...if you re-did the 2008 draft where would you take him?

If the Kings put him on the block what kind of return would DL get?
the bolded, along with holygrail's avatar, makes me lol

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Old
06-25-2010, 10:38 AM
  #111
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I want Schenn

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Old
06-25-2010, 10:41 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glucker View Post
I want Schenn
Schenn is going to cost the Leafs MUCH more than just Kaberle.

And the real question is why would a team that was finished it's rebuild and made the playoffs want to trade a center with Schenn's size and potential in the salary cap era where the Kings will have him cheap during his ELC?

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Old
06-25-2010, 10:41 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by JKG33 View Post
if the Leafs trade Kaberle to the Kings, I want Schenn coming back.
Thank you for proving my point.

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Old
06-25-2010, 10:44 AM
  #114
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by bland View Post
Plus he was removed from the PK this year, and the unit as a whole (probably coincidentally) saw much improved numbers.
Hey I can be obnoxious and condescending too! Maybe you should check your facts:

2010 80.3% 20th in the league
2009 82.9% 7th in the league

How is that "much improved"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bland View Post
Brown just is nowhere as valuable as some of you think.
The topic of this thread was about a trade proposal which would be downright stupid to make. I think that it would be incredibly bad asset management. I'd trade Brown but given his contract and his commitment to the team, it would have to be for a young player not some one who is on the downside of their career with one year left on their contract. But don't let the topic of the thread (a bad proposal) get in the way of your agenda.

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06-25-2010, 10:46 AM
  #115
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1 year of Kaberle will not get you Dustin Brown.

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Old
06-25-2010, 10:48 AM
  #116
Gentle Ben Kenobi
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
Hey I can be obnoxious and condescending too! Maybe you should check your facts:

2010 80.3% 20th in the league
2009 82.9% 7th in the league

How is that "much improved"?



The topic of this thread was about a trade proposal which would be downright stupid to make. I think that it would be incredibly bad asset management. I'd trade Brown but given his contract and his commitment to the team, it would have to be for a young player not some one who is on the downside of their career with one year left on their contract. But don't let the topic of the thread (a bad proposal) get in the way of your agenda.
One of these days we are going to find out that Brown accidentally ran over bland's chinchilla that got out during it's dust bath. There is no other explanation.

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Old
06-25-2010, 10:49 AM
  #117
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I don't get "bland". Brown hate from a Kings fan? Is this some kind of seminar caller?

I will say that I cannot stand Kings fans that overrate B-grade prospects in LA's system. Kaberle for Brown is utterly laughable from LA's perspective, but trying to pawn off ECHL talent for Kaberle is just as laughable the other way. Teubert and Hickey both have to prove something pretty dramatic on the ice... SOON... to avoid being labeled outright busts.

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Old
06-25-2010, 11:19 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Zal View Post
Yeah, he is. 30+ goal-scoring leaders, that can play in most situations are generally regarded as that good.

You'd have to add to Kaberle to get Brown, especially since the guy is on the wrong side of 30, and is on a one-year deal.
Brown scored 30 goals once. He's generally a 20-25 goal guy.

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06-25-2010, 11:21 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Yog S'loth View Post
I don't get "bland". Brown hate from a Kings fan? Is this some kind of seminar caller?

I will say that I cannot stand Kings fans that overrate B-grade prospects in LA's system. Kaberle for Brown is utterly laughable from LA's perspective, but trying to pawn off ECHL talent for Kaberle is just as laughable the other way. Teubert and Hickey both have to prove something pretty dramatic on the ice... SOON... to avoid being labeled outright busts.
Two points to be made from a fairly objective Kings fan of 35 years...

1) "I will say that I cannot stand Kings fans that overrate B-grade prospects in LA's system."

I agree with you 100%... but this can be saiod about EVERY team. I concur that it seems to be worse among Kings fans but I think that is because we have been so bad so long, we have a wealth of young prospects that people ask about.

2) Your point about Hickey and teubert is well made but I think you may be a product of the internet generation. Back in the day, it took the average defnesive prospect 3-4 years befiore being ready for the NHL. With the info super highway and the extensive media surrounding hockey today, alot of people dont give young defensive prospects time to develop. For every Drew Doughty or Tyler Myers there are 100 Colten Tuerbert's.

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06-25-2010, 11:41 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by frolovfan View Post
For every Drew Doughty or Tyler Myers there are 100 Colten Tuerbert's.
How many first round picks (not including goalies) have played in the ECHL?

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06-25-2010, 11:47 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yog S'loth View Post
I don't get "bland". Brown hate from a Kings fan? Is this some kind of seminar caller?

I will say that I cannot stand Kings fans that overrate B-grade prospects in LA's system. Kaberle for Brown is utterly laughable from LA's perspective, but trying to pawn off ECHL talent for Kaberle is just as laughable the other way. Teubert and Hickey both have to prove something pretty dramatic on the ice... SOON... to avoid being labeled outright busts.
You do know Duncan Keith was a fringe NHLer up until he was 22-23, right? Hickey is 21 and Teubert is 20. Not every defenseman is like Doughty.

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06-25-2010, 11:52 AM
  #122
LombardiTool
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
How many first round picks (not including goalies) have played in the ECHL?
I have no clue. What does this have to do with the point I was trying to make?

Edit: Olaf Kolzig and David Steckel are two.


Last edited by LombardiTool: 06-25-2010 at 12:07 PM.
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Old
06-25-2010, 12:09 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by aegwillnotwinthecup View Post
You do know Duncan Keith was a fringe NHLer up until he was 22-23, right? Hickey is 21 and Teubert is 20. Not every defenseman is like Doughty.
Do you know how many "fringe NHLers" there are every year at 22-23? A lot more than you think. He's not saying that it's impossible for them to become NHLers, it's just unlikely; and less likely than when they were drafted.

Furthermore, neither Teubert or Hickey can even be considered fringe NHLers at this point. One is a young ECHL defencman and one is an injured AHL defenceman.

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Old
06-25-2010, 12:11 PM
  #124
CASUAL KEV
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isn't brown as untouchable to LA as doughty and kopitar?
No. Brown is a good useful player bit he isnt a star.

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Old
06-25-2010, 12:17 PM
  #125
Buddy The Elf
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Brown scored 30 goals once. He's generally a 20-25 goal guy.
Excellent analysis!

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