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Old
06-28-2012, 03:49 PM
  #126
usefulfiction
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
Yeah, like we did with Richards.

Oh, wait.....

Maybe Joe would learn from that mistake, maybe not. But he could've got more for Ribeiro today.
that was more Richards blocking trades than Joe not pulling the trigger.

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Old
06-28-2012, 06:26 PM
  #127
Bench
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I could score 30 on Malkin's wing. Anyone with a shot like Neal's is destined to put up those numbers with Malkin.
I love when people say this. I LOVE IT. Because it's so untrue.

Highest wing goal totals with Penguins:
2012: Neal 40
2011: Kunitz 23
2010: Guerin 21
2009: Sykora 25
2008: Hossa 29
2007: Recchi 24

Nobody has hit 30 on Malkin's wing since he entered the league. Nobody. Or Crosby's wing for that matter, those numbers come from the highest wing scorer totals. On Malkin's wing, some years, you could expect the numbers to be even less. But even with the benefit of the doubt given, the average top wing goal total for the Penguins is 24.4.

Then Neal comes along and scores 40. Almost 16 goals above the average.

Yeah, but "anybody" could do it. Let's just be honest that Neal is an amazing player and probably worth more than Goligoski and that's how trades work sometimes. Whoops.

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Old
06-28-2012, 06:34 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bench View Post
I love when people say this. I LOVE IT. Because it's so untrue.

Highest wing goal totals with Penguins:
2012: Neal 40
2011: Kunitz 23
2010: Guerin 21
2009: Sykora 25
2008: Hossa 29
2007: Recchi 24

Nobody has hit 30 on Malkin's wing since he entered the league. Nobody. Or Crosby's wing for that matter, those numbers come from the highest wing scorer totals. On Malkin's wing, some years, you could expect the numbers to be even less. But even with the benefit of the doubt given, the average top wing goal total for the Penguins is 24.4.

Then Neal comes along and scores 40. Almost 16 goals above the average.

Yeah, but "anybody" could do it. Let's just be honest that Neal is an amazing player and probably worth more than Goligoski and that's how trades work sometimes. Whoops.
I still question if Neal would have ever become the player he is (and pens fans hope will be/stay) if he hadn't had the wake up call of a trade. IMO the shift by shift effort he demonstrated in Pitt was sorely lacking here. As to why, who knows.

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Old
06-28-2012, 06:47 PM
  #129
LatvianTwist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bench View Post
I love when people say this. I LOVE IT. Because it's so untrue.

Highest wing goal totals with Penguins:
2012: Neal 40
2011: Kunitz 23
2010: Guerin 21
2009: Sykora 25
2008: Hossa 29
2007: Recchi 24

Nobody has hit 30 on Malkin's wing since he entered the league. Nobody. Or Crosby's wing for that matter, those numbers come from the highest wing scorer totals. On Malkin's wing, some years, you could expect the numbers to be even less. But even with the benefit of the doubt given, the average top wing goal total for the Penguins is 24.4.

Then Neal comes along and scores 40. Almost 16 goals above the average.

Yeah, but "anybody" could do it. Let's just be honest that Neal is an amazing player and probably worth more than Goligoski and that's how trades work sometimes. Whoops.
Malkin didn't even really play two of those years. But still, he's a different player now than he used to be.

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Old
06-28-2012, 06:56 PM
  #130
Bench
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
But still, he's a different player now than he used to be.
I agree. He has an elite wing that can put the puck in the net that defenders actually have to worry about. It really opened up his options.

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06-28-2012, 07:27 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bench View Post
I agree. He has an elite wing that can put the puck in the net that defenders actually have to worry about. It really opened up his options.
I kinda agree. I think he was getting an ego and overconfident, and trading him woke him up. A guy doesn't go from putting 180 SoG in a season to 350+ just overnight. He obviously had strong motivation to be better this year considering the horrible season he had last year, and worked on aspects of his game in the offseason.

Would he be the 300+ SoG player here in Dallas if he never got traded and slapped in the face? We'll never know.

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Old
06-28-2012, 07:55 PM
  #132
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It's too bad the trade hasn't turned Goligoski into a better player.

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06-28-2012, 08:29 PM
  #133
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That's a bit unfair. I'm willing to bet that if the powerplay wasn't so bad Goligoski would have put up numbers closer to what would be expected of him. Probably not at the ridiculous pace he was on like the season before with Richards, but something respectable.

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06-28-2012, 08:33 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bench View Post
I love when people say this. I LOVE IT. Because it's so untrue.

Highest wing goal totals with Penguins:
2012: Neal 40
2011: Kunitz 23
2010: Guerin 21
2009: Sykora 25
2008: Hossa 29
2007: Recchi 24

Nobody has hit 30 on Malkin's wing since he entered the league. Nobody. Or Crosby's wing for that matter, those numbers come from the highest wing scorer totals. On Malkin's wing, some years, you could expect the numbers to be even less. But even with the benefit of the doubt given, the average top wing goal total for the Penguins is 24.4.

Then Neal comes along and scores 40. Almost 16 goals above the average.

Yeah, but "anybody" could do it. Let's just be honest that Neal is an amazing player and probably worth more than Goligoski and that's how trades work sometimes. Whoops.
It's disingenuous to put Hossa on that list, he played 12 games with the Pens and scored 3 goals while adding 7 assists. Recchi and Guerin were never going to put up big points at their ages when played with either of these guys. I'm sure if Hossa had a whole season with Crosby or Malkin he'd be in competition with Neal on that list. He's most certainly the better player, though maybe not the better goal scorer.

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06-28-2012, 08:39 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Rune Forumwalker View Post
That's a bit unfair. I'm willing to bet that if the powerplay wasn't so bad Goligoski would have put up numbers closer to what would be expected of him. Probably not at the ridiculous pace he was on like the season before with Richards, but something respectable.
No it's not. If he were better the powerplay would be better and he would score more points.

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06-28-2012, 08:43 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
He's most certainly the better player, though maybe not the better goal scorer.
I'm willing to say he's better by virtue of scoring 45 goals in a pre-lockout season.

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06-28-2012, 08:46 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
No it's not. If he were better the powerplay would be better and he would score more points.
FFS it is perfectly clear that ribeiro was in charge of the powerplay, it isn't fair to blame goose for ribs sitting on the half wall for a minute and a half every time

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Old
06-28-2012, 08:50 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I'm willing to say he's better by virtue of scoring 45 goals in a pre-lockout season.
Well, they say goal scoring is a young man's game, and I think Hossa is probably past his best goal scoring years while Neal is smack dab in the middle of them.

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06-28-2012, 08:54 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Bennrocks View Post
FFS it is perfectly clear that ribeiro was in charge of the powerplay, it isn't fair to blame goose for ribs sitting on the half wall for a minute and a half every time
Riiiight. Ribeiro was the problem with everything. Cleary everything will be better now that we have that cancerous shift-extender on the team anymore.

When paired with a capable shooter Ribs has never been a hesitant passer. He held onto the puck for so long because there was no viable shooter at the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
Well, they say goal scoring is a young man's game, and I think Hossa is probably past his best goal scoring years while Neal is smack dab in the middle of them.
Hossa scored 40 the season after in Detroit.

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06-28-2012, 08:59 PM
  #140
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True, which is impressive. Looking at his stats I can't believe he'll hit 1000 games next season and be close enough to a point a game that it's pretty damn respectable. Wow.

He's never scored 30 in Chicago. I think part of that has to do with injuries and fatigue from three straight seasons in the SCF, but I think him having a resurgence this year was due to him not being in the hunt as long the year before. I don't really see him doing dramatically better at this point in his career then back when he was scoring 40.

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06-28-2012, 09:01 PM
  #141
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I hear you. Given the hit he took it's hard to say what he will look like from here on out.

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06-28-2012, 09:03 PM
  #142
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He wasn't the problem with everything, however the main problem was the coaching staff not putting the best players out there for the powerplay.

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06-28-2012, 09:27 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
It's disingenuous to put Hossa on that list, he played 12 games with the Pens and scored 3 goals while adding 7 assists. Recchi and Guerin were never going to put up big points at their ages when played with either of these guys. I'm sure if Hossa had a whole season with Crosby or Malkin he'd be in competition with Neal on that list. He's most certainly the better player, though maybe not the better goal scorer.
It wasn't disingenuous of me. It was GENEROUS of me. He had the highest goal totals. I could have used a lower goal total, which would actually prove my point that "anybody could score 30 with Malkin" is a load of ******** that Stars fans say to feel better about losing one of the best young snipers in the NHL.

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06-28-2012, 09:35 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by EndBoards View Post
A couple of reasons..

1. The Stars did not have Evgeni Malkin, nor one of his clones.

2. The Stars have a weaker forward group than the Pens, meaning that Neal could be matchup targeted if he started showing signs of being dangerous.

3. Neal's production in 10-11 was a regression from his production in 09-10. His production leading up to the trade was further regressing from what he had done at the start of the season.
What I would say to that is the Stars do indeed have one of Malkin's clones, or at least the next best thing. Malkin and Benn were 1-2 in even strength production per 60 for most of the season and don't play an entirely dissimilar game.

The Pens didn't exactly have an arsenal of offensive forwards at their disposal last year. Neal's line was the focus of the heavy checking and matchups nearly every night.

Young players' production sometimes varies. It's not always a straight line to the sky like Loui's. Doesn't mean you give up on them and rule out their potential. Neal always had that potential and I think he would've realized it here. Ultimately it is unprovable and unknowable.

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Old
06-28-2012, 09:38 PM
  #145
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It's inaccurate, he played a dozen regular season games with the Penguins. His regular season numbers with them project to about 20 goals, his playoff numbers project to over 40.

Oh, and I'm not sure there's anything we can say about not feeling ****** until Goligoski decides to turn into Brian Rafalski 2.0 or Neal goes back to how he played with the Pens before this past season.

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06-28-2012, 09:47 PM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
It's inaccurate, he played a dozen regular season games with the Penguins. His regular season numbers with them project to about 20 goals, his playoff numbers project to over 40.

Oh, and I'm not sure there's anything we can say about not feeling ****** until Goligoski decides to turn into Brian Rafalski 2.0 or Neal goes back to how he played with the Pens before this past season.
Time for a new avy, Cap?

Also, I'm still optimistic that Goligoski has yet to hit his true stride in Dallas. Hopefully next season we see an elevated game from him.

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06-28-2012, 09:53 PM
  #147
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If Curt Fraser can turn the PP into even an average one, I guarantee Goose hits 35+ points again. We'll see a lot less bellyaching about the trade the minute we fix this damn PP.

(Yes I know goose is part of the problem, but we saw in his brief time here with Richards than he can be a successful PP PMD).

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06-28-2012, 09:57 PM
  #148
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Ribeiro was far, far more to blame than Goligoski.

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06-28-2012, 10:54 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Ribeiro was far, far more to blame than Goligoski.
No he wasn't. Ribeiro didn't put cement in everyone's skates.

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06-28-2012, 10:56 PM
  #150
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No he wasn't. Ribeiro didn't put cement in everyone's skates.
He just stayed out there twice as long as he should've and puck hogged it every time he was on the ice.

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