“The best the Flyers had for Hamhuis was a fifth-rounder,” the one exec said late Friday night. “They would have come back to Philly knowing that was the market for him. Then [Ray] Shero comes along and offers a third rounder.
“You gotta make that deal if you think it’s no better than 50-50 you sign the kid. No one else would have given Philly a third-rounder. [Holmgren] had his rights for eight days and turned it into a third-round pick. That’s pretty damn good.”
“The kid made a mistake,” said the rival agent. “He should have signed in Philly. You don’t demand ice time in a negotiation.”
I seem to remember the team trying Carter with Gagne near the end of the season that will not be named, after we traded Foppa.
I also seem to remember that Gagne and Carter should never play on the same line, as they looked awful together.
Wrong. Gagne-Carter-Upshall was the only good thing that came out of the Voldemort year. They were excellent together - one of the flat out fastest lines in the league.
Neither Carter nor Gagne are one-dimensional snipers. They both play D too and their passing is underrated.
Everyone keeps mentioning "Healthy Parent." If you have to add that disclaimer then Parent is useless. No one else on this team gets this adjective, even Gagne and Briere who have been banged up frequently. Parent has a bad back. If you have a bad back at 21, you always have a bad back.
Getting a third for him is a master stroke. Where Hamhuis ends up is immaterial. Pittsburgh was going to have to sign someone good in the 4.5+ range. Hamhuis has them a bit over a barrel and he may get 5 now because of the third the Pens gave up.
This is a good tactical move (short term) and a good strategic move (long term).
The other point in Homer's favour is that Parent can't be sent down to the AHL without clearing waivers now, so it was either qualify then sign him and play him as the #6 or have him sitting around as the #7 or start him in the AHL and risk losing him upon recall... They clearly don't need him for that role now. With Syvret, there was no real risk anyone would claim him. Parent not so much.
I was thinking about the Predators d-depth and took a look at their defense man draftees over the past few years and saw that Ryan Ellis had 30 assists in 19 games with the Spitfires during this past playoffs. I know that team was a powerhouse, but that's pretty awesome.
Edit: Where does Parent fit in there?
Last edited by ilovetheflyers8: 06-27-2010 at 07:57 AM.
Wrong. Gagne-Carter-Upshall was the only good thing that came out of the Voldemort year. They were excellent together - one of the flat out fastest lines in the league.
Neither Carter nor Gagne are one-dimensional snipers. They both play D too and their passing is underrated.
But I think swapping Gagne and vanRiemsdyk is a better strategy.
I don't think he likes using Giroux and Richards on the same line. I remember him talking about it one game and saying something like "we like to split them up because they're both playmakers".
Wrong. Gagne-Carter-Upshall was the only good thing that came out of the Voldemort year. They were excellent together - one of the flat out fastest lines in the league.
Neither Carter nor Gagne are one-dimensional snipers. They both play D too and their passing is underrated.
They were alright, not "excellent." Nor are they "one-dimensional snipers," but they do shoot before passing 95% of the time... and, frankly, both should because they have great releases. Unless you're forced to, there's no good reason to load up with Carter and Gagne on the same line.
You're letting how terrible everything else looked that season cloud your memory of that line... it was OK surrounded by 82 games of slop.
I was thinking about the Predators d-depth and took a look at their defense man draftees over the past few years and saw that Ryan Ellis had 30 assists in 19 games with the Spitfires during this past playoffs. I know that team was a powerhouse, but that's pretty awesome.
Edit: Where does Parent fit in there?
Parent might play a season and after that, I think he becomes trade bait. Already better than him are: Weber, Suter, Franson, Klein, Bouillion, and Grebeshkov. Grebeshkov is probably getting traded so he slides into the #6 and is likely ousted very soon by Blum, Ellis, Sulzer, or Roussel. Wouldn't shock me if it happened this year.
I talked to a former NHL player, a rugged defenseman in his day. A one-time captain about this and he was dumbfounded..
"What player says that? You don't negotiate playing time or where you fit! You earn your spot. Your a making 4 ****ing million dollars. Now go show you are worth it. I can't believe an NHL player would bring his role into negotiations. What does Paul Holmgren do? Tell Peter Laviolette you HAVE to play this guy top 4 and PP? His teammates! I mean what the bleep would they say? How would they treat a player in the room? When he makes a mistake, even before, any other hockey player would be all over him..."
Wonder why the Flyers handed their fiercest rival a power play defenseman? They don't think he will sign with the Pens on a bet! In fact, the Flyers actually warned the Penguins about this demand for a guaranteed role..and the Penguins actually plan to bring their coach into the talks we are hearing. SERIOUSLY?? The Penguins know you can't do this as well.
“The best the Flyers had for Hamhuis was a fifth-rounder,” the one exec said late Friday night. “They would have come back to Philly knowing that was the market for him. Then [Ray] Shero comes along and offers a third rounder.
“You gotta make that deal if you think it’s no better than 50-50 you sign the kid. No one else would have given Philly a third-rounder. [Holmgren] had his rights for eight days and turned it into a third-round pick. That’s pretty damn good.”
“The kid made a mistake,” said the rival agent. “He should have signed in Philly. You don’t demand ice time in a negotiation.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles
Glad to see someone else say this (in Eklund's column coming from a former NHL d-man).
First of all, I think Homer deserves a round of applause for this deal. At least more credit then he's getting. So, here ya go Homer.
Anyways, I liked Hamhuis before this summer, I really did. However, he's handling his negotiations ridiculously. He's expecting top-dollar, which is all fine and good as long as he's being within the realms of practicality, but he's also demanding ice-time. That's ********. Homer was probably going to pay him 4 mil on a contending team, with top names like Pronger, and I'm willing to bet Laviolette would have played him like eighteen to twenty minutes a night. Hamhuis won't sign though because he demands to be on the second pairing and be playing upwards of twenty minutes? **** that. He should know by now that you have to earn your contract and your minutes. I expect better from a professional athlete.
Last edited by Garbage Goal: 06-27-2010 at 02:14 PM.
First of all, I think Homer deserves a round of applause for this deal. At least more credit then he's getting. So, here ya go Homer.
My point the other night was that it was highly irregular for a player to demand such things and it would lead to odd situations involving coaching. Any guesses on the player quoted? I have one.
First of all, I think Homer deserves a round of applause for this deal. At least more credit then he's getting. So, here ya go Homer.
I second this. He gets a big thumbs up for a) not overpaying Hamhuis and b) screwing the Pens out of a third round pick. Losing Parent is pretty meh in my book. I wanted the kid to succeed, but the pick is not a terrible return for him.
My point the other night was that it was highly irregular for a player to demand such things and it would lead to odd situations involving coaching. Any guesses on the player quoted? I have one.
It made absolutely NO sense what so every for philly OR the pens, too go after Hamhuis and trade for him.
Hamhuis stated ON the radio interview in Vancouver, that he loves the city and would be highly convenient to live near his family
Vancouver desperately tried to get hamhuis at the trade deadline (multiple reports)
he is a BC boy
Vancouver has tons of cap space (yes even after ballard trade).
Gillis stated after the draft they WILL be adding another high end d-man, and would be nice of certain players reach free agency(hint hint)
Honestly it made no sense what so ever why philly or the pens traded for him, clearly he want's to play for vancouver.
Finally: I love the flyer team and the fans, but don't go now and say hamhuis is a bad d-man all of a sudden, after a week ago when the deal was made the amount of happiness and great comments toward hamhuis was enormous.
Last edited by Lucbourdon: 06-27-2010 at 03:43 PM.
It made absolutely NO sense what so every for philly OR the pens, too go after Hamhuis and trade for him.
Hamhuis stated ON the radio interview in Vancouver, that he loves the city and would be highly convenient to live near his family
Vancouver desperately tried to get hamhuis at the trade deadline (multiple reports)
he is a BC boy
Vancouver has tons of cap space (yes even after ballard trade).
Gillis stated after the draft they WILL be adding another high end d-man, and would be nice of certain players reach free agency(hint hint)
Honestly it made no sense what so ever why philly or the pens traded for him, clearly he want's to play for vancouver.
Finally: I love the flyer team and the fans, but don't go now and say hamhuis is a bad d-man all of a sudden, after a week ago when the deal was made the amount of happiness and great comments toward hamhuis was enormous.
He's going to go wherever the money and the minutes are. Simple as that.
It made absolutely NO sense what so every for philly OR the pens, too go after Hamhuis and trade for him.
Hamhuis stated ON the radio interview in Vancouver, that he loves the city and would be highly convenient to live near his family
Vancouver desperately tried to get hamhuis at the trade deadline (multiple reports)
he is a BC boy
Vancouver has tons of cap space (yes even after ballard trade).
Gillis stated after the draft they WILL be adding another high end d-man, and would be nice of certain players reach free agency(hint hint)
Honestly it made no sense what so ever why philly or the pens traded for him, clearly he want's to play for vancouver.
Finally: I love the flyer team and the fans, but don't go now and say hamhuis is a bad d-man all of a sudden, after a week ago when the deal was made the amount of happiness and great comments toward hamhuis was enormous.
If you wanted him, you should've beat or matched Pittsburgh's offer.
Honestly, Hamhuis cannot be the #1 defenseman for Pittsburgh. He cannot be the #1 defenseman for Vancouver. He's a decent #2 and a damn good #3. That's it. He can log chunks of minutes, which is awesome, but he's not going to shatter the earth with his play.
Frankly, I don't care. If somebody wants to overpay him, that's there problem. He's no longer ours.
I made this very same commen(about a player dictating playing time in free agency) a couple of days ago(or was it yesterday) on this board. I think someone has been reading this board
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucbourdon
It made absolutely NO sense what so every for philly OR the pens, too go after Hamhuis and trade for him.
Hamhuis stated ON the radio interview in Vancouver, that he loves the city and would be highly convenient to live near his family
Vancouver desperately tried to get hamhuis at the trade deadline (multiple reports)
he is a BC boy
Vancouver has tons of cap space (yes even after ballard trade).
Gillis stated after the draft they WILL be adding another high end d-man, and would be nice of certain players reach free agency(hint hint)
Honestly it made no sense what so ever why philly or the pens traded for him, clearly he want's to play for vancouver.
Finally: I love the flyer team and the fans, but don't go now and say hamhuis is a bad d-man all of a sudden, after a week ago when the deal was made the amount of happiness and great comments toward hamhuis was enormous.
No offense, but if you are looking to add a high impact dman I think you will be a bit dissapointed in Hamhuis. I dont think he sucks. I think hes a solid to pretty good middle pairing guy. IMO hes not a top pairing defenseman. If you think he is and expect him to be you may be dissapointed. If you want him fine. But I dont want anyone on my team who is demanding or dictating what he should get in playing time.
Good luck with him if he signs in Vancouver. Personally I would take Paul Martin or Volchenkov over him.
No offense, but if you are looking to add a high impact dman I think you will be a bit dissapointed in Hamhuis. I dont think he sucks. I think hes a solid to pretty good middle pairing guy. IMO hes not a top pairing defenseman. If you think he is and expect him to be you may be dissapointed. If you want him fine. But I dont want anyone on my team who is demanding or dictating what he should get in playing time.
Good luck with him if he signs in Vancouver. Personally I would take Paul Martin or Volchenkov over him.
Agreed. Volchenkov should cost about the same as Hamhuis as well (maybe slightly more expensive).
Volchenkov + martin will get 5m easily, I would think.
Hamhuis is more around the 4m/4.25m range
Hamhuis hasn't been totally clear on what he wants in terms of money, but he'll likely want and receive somewhere from 4 mil to 4.5 mil. Volchenkov will probably get somewhere from 4.4. mil to 5 mil. So, like I said before, Volchenkov will likely cost as much or slightly more then Hamhuis.
