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06-29-2010, 09:51 AM
  #76
305Pantera
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Originally Posted by whoisournextbure View Post
wow I cant believe there is an argument still!
Detroit and NJD have been successfull with euros, sure. But just by drafting euros doesnt magically make you into a contender. Whats important is your scouting staff. Detroit has got Hakan Andersson covering most of europe and mainly sweden. He has got an amazing eye for talent and he is able to identify those late rounders that actually has an opportunity to become nhl regulars, like Z and j.ericsson for example.

Tallon said that he wants to spend more money on scouting next year so Im guessing he will hire some scouts he trusts. I am sure they will then be covering a larger area, hence having more of an in-depth opinion about more plays that possibly might slip to the later rounds.
But just by finding late rounds gems wont turn you in to a contender either. I fyou have great success in scouting players destined to go in rounds 1-3 and they turn in to nhl regulars you basically get atleast 3 future nhlers per draft, which is a very high number. If you look back on our draft history, we rarely have 3 players from a draft class that has earned a full time roster spot on a nhl team.

players expected to go in those first 3 rounds are expected to go there because of a reason; scouts see that they have talent and they have a chance to make an impact. players not even ranked or ranked in the late rounds usually dont impress scouts that much, and thats why they are where they are.

imo, id rather have great success in the first 3 rounds and get those high end talents than once in a while finding a late round gem that maybe in 5 years can contribute to the team.

just my opinion.
Well this draft should definitely change this trend . I understand your frustration though, the ranking system seems simple enough, and I'd much rather have success in the earlier rounds, than busts with gems in the later rounds. I can't remember the number, but IIRC, Tallon mentioned how our organization has a small scouting department, and the he intends to build onto it. Man, my patience is wearing thin though. Waiting to see whether these prospects pan out is torture!

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06-29-2010, 10:16 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by 305Pantera View Post
Well this draft should definitely change this trend . I understand your frustration though, the ranking system seems simple enough, and I'd much rather have success in the earlier rounds, than busts with gems in the later rounds. I can't remember the number, but IIRC, Tallon mentioned how our organization has a small scouting department, and the he intends to build onto it. Man, my patience is wearing thin though. Waiting to see whether these prospects pan out is torture!
I agree.

But when we've got an elite No1 prospect playing in a Euro league, surely we check to see how he's doing. If so how come we missed the four top forwards on his team?
Or maybe the quality of the opposition.

We were told that this draft was about size, and character.

Yet in this draft we select a LW in McFarland who's character and work ethic have been questioned before two LW in Rensfeldt and Larsson from Markstroms team who have been praised for their work ethic and character. And lets not question it on a talent basis - Rensfeldt was being mocked as high as Ottawa at No16, whilst Larsson set the WJC on fire with 14pts in 5 games.

We then draft a small defenceman in Gallagher, yet ignore the claims of a guy who is 3 inches and 20lbs bigger, with the frame to get larger in Garnberg.

Exactly what are our scouts and talent evaluators doing? Oggling blondes, racking up their air miles, enjoying the duty free?

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06-29-2010, 10:44 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Blacksheep71 View Post
I agree.

But when we've got an elite No1 prospect playing in a Euro league, surely we check to see how he's doing. If so how come we missed the four top forwards on his team?
Or maybe the quality of the opposition.

We were told that this draft was about size, and character.

Yet in this draft we select a LW in McFarland who's character and work ethic have been questioned before two LW in Rensfeldt and Larsson from Markstroms team who have been praised for their work ethic and character. And lets not question it on a talent basis - Rensfeldt was being mocked as high as Ottawa at No16, whilst Larsson set the WJC on fire with 14pts in 5 games.

We then draft a small defenceman in Gallagher, yet ignore the claims of a guy who is 3 inches and 20lbs bigger, with the frame to get larger in Garnberg.

Exactly what are our scouts and talent evaluators doing? Oggling blondes, racking up their air miles, enjoying the duty free?
Well when you put it THAT way, I'll be sure to send Tallon my resume . Haha. My guess is we just have an extremely weak network in Europe. My guess as to how they justify this is the amount of talent and competition, although he did take HSers, in the NA minor leagues. While I've absolutely GOT to agree with you here, but in the end most of our picks were "safe" ones, and I can certainly live with that. I definitely would have been more excited with some of the European firepower you're speaking of, but for now I'll just take Tallons word for it. He did enough at the draft to convince me he knows what he's doing and he's got some sort of a plan he's willing to stick to. Also seems like PDB is really behind him on this, which is obviously great.

As for everyone wanting us to tank, not cool :. What's the point in playing the game? It would certainly be much more exciting to see us have a longer season and be a bit of young underdogs.

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06-29-2010, 11:15 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by 305Pantera View Post
Well when you put it THAT way, I'll be sure to send Tallon my resume . Haha. My guess is we just have an extremely weak network in Europe. My guess as to how they justify this is the amount of talent and competition, although he did take HSers, in the NA minor leagues. While I've absolutely GOT to agree with you here, but in the end most of our picks were "safe" ones, and I can certainly live with that. I definitely would have been more excited with some of the European firepower you're speaking of, but for now I'll just take Tallons word for it. He did enough at the draft to convince me he knows what he's doing and he's got some sort of a plan he's willing to stick to. Also seems like PDB is really behind him on this, which is obviously great.

As for everyone wanting us to tank, not cool :. What's the point in playing the game? It would certainly be much more exciting to see us have a longer season and be a bit of young underdogs.
Totally agree - we should never tank. Losing becomes a culture.

However if we are struggling to make the Play Offs, I see value in trading the likes of McCabe, Vokoun, Stillman etc and giving our prospects like Ellerby, Markstrom, Repik and McFarland (who I think will be at the Amerks) some competitive time.

I would again trade for picks, rather than bandaids.

If Jenks, Markstrom, Repik and Ellberby actually move all the way to the NHL, then the likes of Howden, Jenks, Petrovic and Brinkley filling their places on the two way contracts.

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06-29-2010, 11:41 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Blacksheep71 View Post
Totally agree - we should never tank. Losing becomes a culture.

However if we are struggling to make the Play Offs, I see value in trading the likes of McCabe, Vokoun, Stillman etc and giving our prospects like Ellerby, Markstrom, Repik and McFarland (who I think will be at the Amerks) some competitive time.

I would again trade for picks, rather than bandaids.

If Jenks, Markstrom, Repik and Ellberby actually move all the way to the NHL, then the likes of Howden, Jenks, Petrovic and Brinkley filling their places on the two way contracts.
No doubt we try and move those guys at the deadline if we're not making a playoff push at the time. Apparently next years draft isn't as deep though? Not quite sure how this can be determined yet though (a lot can happen in a year). Regardless, I'm sure Tallon will go with the best available options on the market... I certainly wouldn't mind a #1 center haha.

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06-29-2010, 11:55 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by 305Pantera View Post
No doubt we try and move those guys at the deadline if we're not making a playoff push at the time. Apparently next years draft isn't as deep though? Not quite sure how this can be determined yet though (a lot can happen in a year). Regardless, I'm sure Tallon will go with the best available options on the market... I certainly wouldn't mind a #1 center haha.
I don't know how you measure the quality of the drafts. I guess people look at Round1 as a measurement

In the last 10 years I suppose 2001, 2002, and 2003 have been pretty decent, 2004 pretty poor, 2005 and 2006 again being pretty decent, but it being too early to judge the last 3-4 rounds yet, though 2007 is again look pretty poor.

It may well be that 2011 is on that 2-3 good, 1 poor cycle, which absolutely demands money be invested in scouting now especially as well have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds.

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