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Old
06-27-2010, 10:49 AM
  #26
DaveG
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Not sure where people got the two years thing on Skinner, maybe one but 2 may be a bit much. Only thing I want is a sudden 2-3 inch growth spurt out of him at this point... and maybe a bit better pure speed.

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Originally Posted by RY4N View Post
Agreed on Babchuk. Sanguinetti has won the hardest shot and fastest skater competitions in the AHL for the past two years. He sounds like a Babchuk who can actually skate and carry the puck well. We'll see what happens between Sangs and Babs this year. If Sangs has a good year I would have to think that it would be hard for Babchuk to have a future here with McBain and Pitkanen on the roster too.
Unfortunately it also sounds like a version of Babchuk that is even more of a spaz (defensively, not personality wise) and less effective in his own zone. I do think he can put it together, but it's going to take some time.

Honestly I don't think this does anything to the Anton Bomb except make him even more available and movable at the deadline then he already will be when he signs here again. Nothing wrong with that either since I believe this is his last season of restricted free agency.


Last edited by DaveG: 06-27-2010 at 11:10 AM.
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06-27-2010, 11:04 AM
  #27
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Unfortunately it also sounds like a version of Babchuk that is even more of a spaz and less effective in his own zone. I do think he can put it together, but it's going to take some time.
Hopefully our staff can work with his speed, which seems to be very good, and refine is game in his own zone. He is still only 22, younger than McBain as someone else pointed out, so he definitely has time to develop his defensive games. I'm thinking that paring him with Gleason might be the best idea.

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06-27-2010, 11:11 AM
  #28
DaveG
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just clarified the post fwiw, by no means do I think Sanguinetti the person is a spaz. I would be in no place to know on that matter.

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06-27-2010, 11:28 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Not sure where people got the two years thing on Skinner, maybe one but 2 may be a bit much. Only thing I want is a sudden 2-3 inch growth spurt out of him at this point... and maybe a bit better pure speed.
I agree but I think many have a knee-jerk reaction because he didn't get nearly the hype leading up to the draft. I think some people get emotionally attached to certain names and Skinner wasn't one of them.

The scouting rankings that some are citing should be taken with a grain of salt since they were published before the playoffs. Skinner went rocketing up the charts after a phenomenal 20 goals in 20 games performance. Some of the other scouting services were starting to project him in the top 10 so it's not a real shocker given the Canes' needs for goal scoring. Skinner gets compared a lot to Parise which you can see but the other comparison of Derek Roy may be a more realistic. Either way, if you get someone you can develop potentially like either of those guys, it's a great pickup.

If you potentially are going to struggle with a roster full of younger players, the fans will be more excited about goal scoring so the logic is understandable. I wasn't upset that Fowler got bypassed and besides they tried to make a trade to get him or Gormley so it's not as if they sat on their hands. I also like the move for Nash, who I think projects nicely as a solid, two-way 3rd line center.

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06-27-2010, 11:41 AM
  #30
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Unless I am mistaken, we have Babchuk as an RFA after this season, only he gets arbitration rights. Not sure how they treat defected years of a contract, but I think it just pushes the whole scale back.

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06-27-2010, 12:02 PM
  #31
DaveG
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post

If you potentially are going to struggle with a roster full of younger players, the fans will be more excited about goal scoring so the logic is understandable. I wasn't upset that Fowler got bypassed and besides they tried to make a trade to get him or Gormley so it's not as if they sat on their hands. I also like the move for Nash, who I think projects nicely as a solid, two-way 3rd line center.
That was the thing that actually calmed me on our choice not to go defenseman at #7 in a big way. My reaction had little to do with Skinner individually and more to do with our need for another high end defenseman in a big way. Between the two I'm not sure which one of them I would have preferred us acquire via that trade but as you said, it's not like JR was just sitting there on his hands doing nothing. It's rare to hear that this organization was actually being active trying to acquire these high profile kids with the type of deal that other teams seem to make quite often.

Not to mention that if Sangs can put it together here he will become that high end defenseman we passed on in Fowler/Skinner. His skill set is huge but he really needs to develop the defensive aspects of his game. Hopefully Wes can be a good mentor with that.

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Unless I am mistaken, we have Babchuk as an RFA after this season, only he gets arbitration rights. Not sure how they treat defected years of a contract, but I think it just pushes the whole scale back.
I'll have to look into that. Worst case I might PM Irish Blues since he is one of the few that seems to really "get" the new CBA. I've read over it a couple times and understand a lot of the concepts but he's far more well versed in it then I am.

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06-27-2010, 12:35 PM
  #32
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I'm pretty sure we asked IB last offseason what Babchuk's status was. I think what we came to is that he was a RFA without arbitration rights (and should be when he comes back) then he will arbitration eligible after another season but since he's defected twice now I'm not sure how it affects his situation exactly.

Here's the link to the thread last summer discussing it:
http://www2.hfboards.com/3.7.hfboard...=647985&page=4

Around post #84

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06-27-2010, 12:39 PM
  #33
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Skinner will need two years in the AHL... He's undersized and not fast, those two traits are what get you in the NHL usually as kid (under 20)... He will have to develop his skills more to be able to stay on a roster because of the deficiencies...

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06-27-2010, 12:53 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
Skinner will need two years in the AHL... He's undersized and not fast, those two traits are what get you in the NHL usually as kid (under 20)... He will have to develop his skills more to be able to stay on a roster because of the deficiencies...
Two years in the AHL? So that means he won't be on the Canes til the 2014 season? You can't seriously think that.. he still won't be eligible for the A for another 2 seasons. There's no chance he takes that long to suit up in a Canes uniform unless he's a complete bust and never makes it. We all know you hate the pick man, but get real.

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06-27-2010, 01:07 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Erik Stall View Post
Two years in the AHL? So that means he won't be on the Canes til the 2014 season? You can't seriously think that.. he still won't be eligible for the A for another 2 seasons. There's no chance he takes that long to suit up in a Canes uniform unless he's a complete bust and never makes it. We all know you hate the pick man, but get real.

I meant 2 years from now...12-13... thought most would understand what I meant

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06-27-2010, 01:12 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Stall View Post
I'm pretty sure we asked IB last offseason what Babchuk's status was. I think what we came to is that he was a RFA without arbitration rights (and should be when he comes back) then he will arbitration eligible after another season but since he's defected twice now I'm not sure how it affects his situation exactly.

Here's the link to the thread last summer discussing it:
http://www2.hfboards.com/3.7.hfboard...=647985&page=4

Around post #84
NHL FAQ.

UFA status is based on a combination of age and service, sliding from 7 years of service at any age to 27 with at least 4 years of service. Babchuk was born on May 6, 1984, so he is 27 years old next summer. I think he will completely skip arbitration because of his KHL seasons and be a UFA next season.


Last edited by Chrispy: 06-27-2010 at 01:18 PM. Reason: addition of NHL FAQ
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06-27-2010, 01:22 PM
  #37
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UFA status is based on your age (27 years old) or over years of NHL service. Babchuk was born on May 6, 1984, so he is 27 years old next summer. I think he will completely skip arbitration because of his KHL seasons and be a UFA next season.
It's not solely about age (it only comes into play with free agency for when you signed your ELC). UFA also isn't just based on NHL service. You can technically become a UFA without ever playing an NHL game because UFA is based on the amount of pro seasons you have (but only in leagues the NHL has a transfer agreement with, so European leagues don't count). He's still a RFA for now and I'm pretty sure he'd just be arby eligible after that.

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06-27-2010, 01:44 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Erik Stall View Post
It's not solely about age (it only comes into play with free agency for when you signed your ELC). UFA also isn't just based on NHL service. You can technically become a UFA without ever playing an NHL game because UFA is based on the amount of pro seasons you have (but only in leagues the NHL has a transfer agreement with, so European leagues don't count). He's still a RFA for now and I'm pretty sure he'd just be arby eligible after that.
I'm seeing conflicting answers, so I went directly to the NHL CBA.

Quote:
For ... (D) the 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 League Years, any Player who either has seven (7) Accrued Seasons or is 27 years of age or older as of June 30 of the end of the 2007-08, 2008-09, 2009-10 League Year...
That does not mention any number of years of service for unrestricted free agency at the age of 27.

If he requires 4 years of service, which isn't clear, here's his service thusfar:

5 games with Chicago in 03-04.
17 with Chicago, 22 with Carolina in 05-06 for 39 total.
52 with Carolina in 06-07.
72 with Carolina in 08-09.

Is that enough to make 3 total years of service? If so, a full year in 10-11 would make him a UFA. If not, he might be arbitration eligible next year.


Last edited by Chrispy: 06-27-2010 at 01:57 PM.
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Old
06-27-2010, 01:46 PM
  #39
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I know it's fun, but talking about lines -- or who will make the team, even -- is way premature until we sort out Brindy/Samsonov. I also think there are still trades on the horizon. We flat out have too many kids ready to make the jump. There's just no room for all of them. I also think some of the younger guys will work their way into the top six at camp. If we know one thing right now, it's that our roster is kind of a mess. For the first time in a while, training camp should be fun.

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06-27-2010, 01:55 PM
  #40
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One thing is a definite and that is in 2 years heading into the 2011-2012 season this team should be ready to make some noise. Heading into the 2012-2013 season should be a huge year for us in terms of contending for the Cup if all goes as planned.

Fast forward to the 2011-2012 season...

Staal - Prime years of his career; Age: 27
Sutter - He'll be hitting his stride here; Age: 23
Ruutu - Prime years of his career; Age: 29
Jokinen - Prime years of his career; Age: 29 (If re-signed after 10-11 season.)
Boychuk - He'll be hitting his stride here; Age: 22
Dalpe - Ready to break in and show what he's got; Age: 22
Bowman - Should be scoring some goals for us; Age: 23
Osala - We'll know what we've got in this Power Forward; Age: 23
Tlusty - We'll know what we've got in this former 13th overall pick; Age: 24
Terry - Seems to adjust in any league/coaches love him; Age: 23
Samson - Career AHL'er or will he crack the NHL? We'll find out; Age: 24
Dodge - Should be a solid checking center who can be relied upon; Age: 26
Skinner - We'll (likely) get our first good look at this sniper; Age: 20
Nash - Will be a contributer in some capacity (top 9 forward); Age: 23
J. Staal - One word, Underdog. We'll see where he's at; Age: 21


Pitkanen - Prime years of his career; Age: 28 (If resigned after 10-11 season.)
Gleason - Prime years/He'll be a rock; Age: 29
McBain - Ready to make his mark; Age: 24
Sanguinetti - Will he hit is stride? If so, he could be a gem offensively; Age: 24
Carson - Entering prime, solid, reliable bottom pairing defenceman; Age: 26
Dumoulin - We'll see where he's at, looks to be a hidden gem; Age: 20
Borer - Still could be reliable bottom pairing defenceman, we'll see; Age: 26
Babchuk - We'll see where his game is at and if he's rounded out; Age: 28 (If here)
Bellemore - Could be a solid, reliable bottom pairing defenceman; Age: 24
Lawson - Another who could be a solid, reliable bottom pairing defenceman; Age: 25


Ward - Prime years of his career; Age: 28
Peters - We'll have a good idea what we have in Peters; Age: 25
Murphy - It'll be interesting to watch this kid develop; Age: 23

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06-27-2010, 05:59 PM
  #41
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Where does Matsumoto fit into the mix for you guys (if anywhere)? He was a solid AHLer here but because of the depth never made it to the show. If nothing else he could be a solid 3/4 line center type player for you guys I think.

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06-27-2010, 06:13 PM
  #42
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Quote:
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Where does Matsumoto fit into the mix for you guys (if anywhere)? He was a solid AHLer here but because of the depth never made it to the show. If nothing else he could be a solid 3/4 line center type player for you guys I think.
Right there. We have our 3rd line centre open, so Boychuk (Although he has been playing the wing in the A), Dalpe, Nash (If he opts out of Cornell) and Matsumoto will fight for that job. If he doesn't make it, he will likely be the Checkers #1 or #2 centre depending on where Dalpe and Nash are.

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06-27-2010, 06:54 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
One thing is a definite and that is in 2 years heading into the 2011-2012 season this team should be ready to make some noise. Heading into the 2012-2013 season should be a huge year for us in terms of contending for the Cup if all goes as planned.

Fast forward to the 2011-2012 season...

Staal - Prime years of his career; Age: 27
Ruutu - Prime years of his career; Age: 29
Jokinen - Prime years of his career; Age: 29 (If re-signed after 10-11 season.)



Pitkanen - Prime years of his career; Age: 28 (If resigned after 10-11 season.)
Gleason - Prime years/He'll be a rock; Age: 29
Carson - Entering prime, solid, reliable bottom pairing defenceman; Age: 26



Ward - Prime years of his career; Age: 28
Couldn't help it

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06-27-2010, 07:02 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
One thing is a definite and that is in 2 years heading into the 2011-2012 season this team should be ready to make some noise. Heading into the 2012-2013 season should be a huge year for us in terms of contending for the Cup if all goes as planned.
I agree 100% Guerzy..and have been of a similar mindset for a while now. This year is a transition year and we still have Samsonov, Cole, and Brindy on the books (unless there is a buyout).

But next year..as you said..many of those guys are hitting their primes and/or ready to make solid NHL contributions. I think we potentially have a roster that can compete year in and year out (as opposed to every 3-4 years). A few key FA adds to fill in the missing pieces, and this team should be able to really make some noise.

That said, it may be a tough year this coming year though. But..as long as the guys are putting forth effort, I have no problem with that. It was the total lack of effort at the beginning of this season that drove me nuts.

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06-27-2010, 07:04 PM
  #45
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I meant 2 years from now...12-13... thought most would understand what I meant
Can Skinner go to the AHL yet? I don't know the rules of AHL vs. Juniors very well, but I thought he couldn't even go to the AHL for a year or two yet (either he has to make the Canes or go back to Juniors).

Can anybody who understands his situation shed some light on this?

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06-27-2010, 07:12 PM
  #46
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from what I understand, he cant get into the AHL yet, but I believe he CAN be in the NHL

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06-27-2010, 07:43 PM
  #47
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Can Skinner go to the AHL yet? I don't know the rules of AHL vs. Juniors very well, but I thought he couldn't even go to the AHL for a year or two yet (either he has to make the Canes or go back to Juniors).

Can anybody who understands his situation shed some light on this?
I know a little bit about, but hopefully someone can clear everything up for sure.

I'm pretty sure that he is allowed to play 10 games up here and then we can either sign him to a contract where he must remain in the NHL, or send him back to his junior team. After his junior season is over, he can play in the AHL (not sure if he can have a tryout contract or if an entry level deal is needed, or how that affects if he can be called up). He can't play full time in the AHL until he is 20, but can play in the NHL full time and can play in the AHL after his junior season is over.

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06-27-2010, 07:51 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncpuckhog View Post
Can Skinner go to the AHL yet? I don't know the rules of AHL vs. Juniors very well, but I thought he couldn't even go to the AHL for a year or two yet (either he has to make the Canes or go back to Juniors).

Can anybody who understands his situation shed some light on this?
Anybody under 20 years old that hasn't completed 4 seasons of Junior hockey has to play in the CHL, unless they're NCAA prospects. If they turn 20 years old by December 31st of the upcoming season, they're eligible for the AHL.


Skinner wouldn't be able to play in the AHL this upcoming season for sure. You can play in the NHL whenever you're ready once you're drafted regardless of where you're picked from. I also don't think he's able to play in the AHL the season after either due to not having the proper amount of time in the CHL. I could be wrong about that, but the rest is true.

Additionally, you can play less than 10 games at the NHL level before the first year of your ELC is eaten. Usually reserved for slam dunk prospects. Carolina only needed 2 games to see Boychuk as being not ready.

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06-27-2010, 08:24 PM
  #49
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Skinner has played only 2 seasons in the OHL and won't be 20 until May of 2012 so he won't be eligible for another 2 years. I hope he can skip the AHL all together though. Either that or spend little time there.

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06-27-2010, 09:13 PM
  #50
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ahhh, I thought he only had one year left with the Juniors... I see the confusion there

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