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Making a bad trade to improve the team

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Old
06-28-2010, 09:26 PM
  #1
nuclear reactor
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Making a bad trade to improve the team

People hate considering trading Carter. Clearly, he is more valuable to the team than what he'd fetch in a trade. However, it is difficult to map out a plan where this team can significantly improve beyond just adding a goalie without trading Carter.

Perhaps adding a goalie is enough improvement, but realistically adding that salary and keeping Carter necessitates the third pairing consisting of Bartulis and an unremarkable UFA, not to mention a bit of weakness at RW.

With that said, here is a thought experiment to improve this team. You may not like this trade, but consider the final roster it would yield.

To St. Louis
Jeff Carter
Matt Carle
Daniel Carcillo

To Philadelphia
T.J. Oshie (76-18-30-48)
Roman Polak
David Backes (79-17-31-48)

Does St. Louis do this trade? I have no idea. I just know you guys probably don't love it from the Flyers perspective, but who knows. This trade shaves $4,562,500 (assuming Carcillo at $1,000,000) off the payroll. With that money, the Flyers can easily add Marty Turco ($3,000,000), Dan Hamhuis ($4,500,000), and re-sign Braydon Coburn ($3,500,000); rough estimates here.

2010/2011 Lineup

Hartnell-Briere-Leino
Gagne-Richards-Giroux
Van Riemsdyk-Oshie-Backes
Nodl-Betts-Laperierre

Pronger-Hamhuis
Timonen-Coburn
Polak-Bartulis

Turco
Boucher

Reserve: Cote, extra defenseman

That leaves $1,855,237 - enough to add an unremarkable 7th defenseman or even upgrade the 6 spot and hug the cap.

I like this team because it has three solid scoring lines with everyone at their natural position. It is a more formidable three lines that what the Flyers had during the playoffs. It also has the best top 4 in hockey and a significantly improved 3rd pairing. Needless to say, goaltending is improved.

So, even if you dislike this trade, is it an improved team over last year, and is it worth it?

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Old
06-28-2010, 09:33 PM
  #2
Giroux tha Damaja
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To quote Charles Barkley "that's not turrible". I don't love it, but it isn't too bad at all.

I don't think Hamhuis wants to sign here and I don't know if Saint Louis does it either.

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Old
06-28-2010, 09:43 PM
  #3
kammy
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i dislike this deal on many levels...

first.. as most people say, whoever gets the best player wins the deal. carter (yes, mr high n wides) is the best player involved here (and yes, i realize backes is a solid forward)...but you bury backes on the 3rd line while trading away your top goal scorer. not smart, even if it is making room for giroux on top line.
not to mention oshie and backes are both terrible at faceoffs, while carter is pretty descent at faceoffs.

next.. dan carcillo is NOT going anywhere. he was one of the best players for us this past season.. with regards to grit, drawing penalties, nonstop energy, excitement, etc.. he needs to remain a Flyer, and at such a low price its a no-brainer, Stache stays!

Carle.. clearly a great pairing with Pronger. Why fk with a good thing ? plus hes still young and getting better.

so...try again... maybe with different players. Try trading Gagne for something.. maybe that backup goalie in LA...Bernier

ps:i would be re-signing Asham for whatever minimal cost he asks for.. too many people write him off as a goner. He proved his worth time and time again.. and performed well above what most people expected. If I'm Homer, I'm re-signing Asham for another season.


Last edited by kammy: 06-28-2010 at 09:50 PM.
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Old
06-28-2010, 09:45 PM
  #4
Juicy Couturier*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
To quote Charles Barkley "that's not turrible". I don't love it, but it isn't too bad at all.

I don't think Hamhuis wants to sign here and I don't know if Saint Louis does it either.
I disagree, that's pretty terrible.

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06-28-2010, 10:05 PM
  #5
sg12lw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear reactor View Post
People hate considering trading Carter. Clearly, he is more valuable to the team than what he'd fetch in a trade.
i feel just the opposite. i think using his value in a trade can make us better than he can....but im sure everyone will tell me im wrong

EDIT: holy crap i wrote a friggin book, so ill just cut it down to the main points

straight up for a young goalie wouldnt be the worst deal ever...but i think we can get one of the LA tendys or schnieder plus a player or two...and youd be crazy to think that we wouldnt be a better team for it

also, im still not convinced that ryan is staying with ANA....carter for ryan straight up is about as fair of a deal there is, and it fills a need for both teams...thats the ideal move in my mind, but im told that its impossible

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06-28-2010, 10:09 PM
  #6
nuclear reactor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 25 Pronger D PHI View Post
i feel just the opposite. i think using his value in a trade can make us better than he can....but im sure everyone will tell me im wrong

EDIT: holy crap i wrote a friggin book, so ill just cut it down to the main points

straight up for a young goalie wouldnt be the worst deal ever...but i think we can get one of the LA tendys or schnieder plus a player or two...and youd be crazy to think that we wouldnt be a better team for it

also, im still not convinced that ryan is staying with ANA....carter for ryan straight up is about as fair of a deal there is, and it fills a need for both teams...thats the ideal move in my mind, but im told that its impossible
If the Flyers could get Ryan for several years below $5,000,000 I'd do it, since Carter will be seeking around $6,000,000 after next year and it shifts some strength from center to RW, which is needed.

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06-28-2010, 10:13 PM
  #7
Giroux tha Damaja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
I disagree, that's pretty terrible.
I figured I'd say something nice, at least he put some thought into it and didn't just post something ridiculous that's not even worthy of discussion like a lot of people do.

I guess it depends on what you think the value of Carcillo or Carle is. I think Carcillo isn't a key component to have so it ends up being Carle and Carter for those three in my mind. The value isn't great and we should probably get a pick coming our way too, but his plan as a whole acknowledges that and says its a bad trade to make the team better. I think he does that (even though some of what he does could be done with out making the trade).

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Old
06-28-2010, 10:24 PM
  #8
BillyShoe1721
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I'd take that deal. We get the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best players in the deal. Polak is very underrated and is a top 4 D, Oshie is a player that brings every intangible you could want and would be beloved in Philly, and Backes is the same. Oshie is going to be a perennial 60 point player, and Backes will be in that range as well. Throw in the fact that both are physical, can play PK, and fit Lavy's system to a T, that would be awesome.

But St. Louis would say hell no.

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06-28-2010, 11:08 PM
  #9
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I don't think you're crazy for wanting to trade Carter. I say instead of trying to convert him into a 1st line winger (like we did in the playoffs). Why not trade him for... a 1st line winger?

Jeff Carter

for

Bobby Ryan
3rd Rounder

Thx for the memories Jeff & welcome home Bobby. Am I crazy or does Anaheim need to add Chuck Norris to even it out?

Gagne-Richards-Ryan
Leino-Briere-Hartnell
JVR-Giroux-XXXX
Lappy-Betts-CarBomb

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Old
06-28-2010, 11:23 PM
  #10
GoneFullHextall
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Backes is a player I would love on this deam. Oshie as well. Its not a terrible proposal, its one that would never happen.

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Old
06-29-2010, 02:54 AM
  #11
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if st. louis agreed to that trade, i'd take it a run for the hills.

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06-29-2010, 08:13 AM
  #12
ugiswrong
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If Carter's going to St Louis, Pietrangelo better be coming back in return.

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Old
06-29-2010, 04:07 PM
  #13
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While people will always say that Jeff Carter is the best player in the trade, you will be getting proper value to fill needs in return. It is not likely that any move is not going to benefit the Flyers in any way. Jeff Carter is a commodity on this roster, his value to the team is what he can get in return in a trade and how this return impacts the roster as far as addressing needs. Moving Giroux to wing just to accommodate Carter seems like a knee jerk reaction to making sure Jeff Carter is happy. Problem is he just does not make playes around him better, he is his own worst enemy.

If you can move Cartsie for: 1) young goalie 2) natural RW who can put the biscuit in the basket 3) depth d-men 4) high round draft picks........you make the deal and not look back. It is highly likely that Carter could be the Ollie Jokinen of the NHL instead of Joe Sakic.

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Old
06-29-2010, 04:17 PM
  #14
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No chance St. Louis would accept this.

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Old
06-29-2010, 04:50 PM
  #15
LEIFey
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I'd take that in a heartbeat if St. Louis offered it. I'd also strongly consider Ryan if he signs a reasonable contract.

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