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Toronto -- Pittsburgh (Staal yes; no Kaberle)

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Old
06-29-2010, 07:35 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuLk View Post
Staal is not anywhere near my ideal top 6 centre. He makes too much to be a third line centre.
Then you havent seen enough of Pitt.

He is bull to knock off the puck, is a threat to score, and one of the best defencive centers in the league who can provide offence and he hasnt even hit his prime yet.

Staal is a legit 2nd line center, if he was given that slot for ice time and game situations, his numbers would justify his salary. Given that his charachter lets him play 3rd fiddle on a center stacked team for the overall good of the teams success, is only a plus in my eye's.

There isnt much from NYR I wouldnt give to get him in our line up. Accept Hank and at this point given our shallowness at scoring forward, Gabby either.

A good starter would be:

Staal + Goligoski

for

Shenn + Kadri +

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06-29-2010, 07:45 AM
  #27
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^^^^^^^^^^^
KADRI............it's obvious you've never seen him play have you?



Quote:
Originally Posted by 4morecups View Post
Not nearly enough value going back to Pittsburgh, If the Penguins are going to trade Staal they will be getting back a 30+ goal scorer.
How so when JS has had a career high of what 49 points? he gets nearly 20 mins a game so there is no argument that with more time he'd be an elite scorer. I like the kid and think he's a great asset, but like his brother Marc I think he gets more love than deserved beacuse of the sexy last name

He is not a #1 centre nor will ever be, he just does not have the playmaking abilities and he certainly didn't exhibit them in the OHL. He is however a solid #2 stuck in the 3 hole in Pittsburgh

Kulemin is a very industrious complimentary 2nd line W, I'd much rather Toronto keep him, same goes for Schenn. If his developmental curve continues on it's present incline he'll finally start to flower this year, by the season after Komisarek will be redundant and Schenn will step firmly into the 2nd pair

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Old
06-29-2010, 07:57 AM
  #28
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Does anyone know how to say Staal isnt getting traded in Spanish?

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06-29-2010, 08:01 AM
  #29
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for pitt to trade staal will require an overpayment by who ever...leafs and pens do not making trading partners...what do they both want...top 6 forwards. Leaf fans move on.

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06-29-2010, 08:02 AM
  #30
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jmelm why do you hate staal so much?

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06-29-2010, 08:02 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerDanger View Post
A good starter would be:

Staal + Goligoski

for

Shenn + Kadri +
Uh no. If we are trading a promising defenceman and our top prospect (who plays centre), we aren't going to be getting a 2nd liner.

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06-29-2010, 08:28 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discobob View Post
Don't even bother suggesting trades with Staal....every Pittsburgh fan will shoot down any reasonable offer with scoffing posts about how valuable he is. Don't reason with them, don't talk about cap hit's......just give up before you ever start....
Ya why would anyone pay attention to the GM who says hes not being traded, and that they will continue to go with their 3 center build. Hey why listen to facts and truth when you can just make up garbage.
Ya clearly not only pens fans value him because there is about 3 new trade rumours about him gonig to the leafs everyday

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Old
06-29-2010, 08:31 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discobob View Post
Don't even bother suggesting trades with Staal....every Pittsburgh fan will shoot down any reasonable offer with scoffing posts about how valuable he is. Don't reason with them, don't talk about cap hit's......just give up before you ever start....
That's the problem with this proposal, it isn't reasonable, and I am not a Penguins fan.

A reasonable proposal would be Kessel for Staal.

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Old
06-29-2010, 08:37 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
That's the problem with this proposal, it isn't reasonable, and I am not a Penguins fan.

A reasonable proposal would be Kessel for Staal.
We downgrade from first liner to second liner and Kessel hasn't even reached his full offensive potential.

Sounds good to me!

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06-29-2010, 08:38 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
That's the problem with this proposal, it isn't reasonable, and I am not a Penguins fan.

A reasonable proposal would be Kessel for Staal.
This. Also, Kadri is not the second coming of Gretzky.

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06-29-2010, 08:40 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All Day View Post
We downgrade from first liner to second liner and Kessel hasn't even reached his full offensive potential.

Sounds good to me!
The original proposal did much worse damage to the Penguins, at least the Leafs geta guy who would be their 1st line center and who is better than anyone else on their team. He also does so much more than Kessel ever will. i understand if you wouldn't want to do the deal, but the value of my proposal is much better than the original.

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06-29-2010, 08:42 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All Day View Post
We downgrade from first liner to second liner and Kessel hasn't even reached his full offensive potential.

Sounds good to me!
but Staal has reached his offensive potential right? not that I'm saying he is going to be as good as Kessel offensively, but it's a stupid retort to say oh Kessel hasn't reached blah blah blah when Staal is even younger than Kessel.

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Old
06-29-2010, 08:42 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamina View Post
Staal = Schenn + Kulemin, imo.
This is the best post so far.

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06-29-2010, 08:43 AM
  #39
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Soon we should get to the whole Pens fans overrate Staal so much blah blah nonsense and then the circle will be complete on another waste of time Staal/Leafs thread.

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Old
06-29-2010, 08:51 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
but Staal has reached his offensive potential right? not that I'm saying he is going to be as good as Kessel offensively, but it's a stupid retort to say oh Kessel hasn't reached blah blah blah when Staal is even younger than Kessel.
I'm well aware that Staal hasn't peaked. Still doesn't have the ceiling that Kessel does offensively and that is exactly what the Leafs need. Not reasonable at all.

Try again.

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Old
06-29-2010, 08:54 AM
  #41
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Ok, thank you for all the feedback. For those who think that I'm a leafs' fan because I'm located in Toronto, that is not the case. I am looking at this from a Pens perspective. I thought the offer may have been a little much for the Pens to give up, but that was ok because it's very easy to take Sneep or Kunitz out of the deal or to add something else from Toronto.

No, I don't hate Staal: I love him, but the Penguins need to address depth at wing and on defense, and sometimes you have to give something up to do that. I'm just exploring every different option.

If Staal and Kunitz were moved out, and Schenn & Kulemin brought in with the later signed to, say, a $2.25 million deal, the Penguins would have over $14million in cap space, with only 3 spots to fill: a first line LW, a #1 Dman, and a 7th Dman. They could, theoretically, go after Kovalchuk for $7million at that point, and Martin/Kubina/Michalek/Hamhuis on defense.

If you take Kunitz out of the deal, that would still leave the Pens with over $10.3 million in cap space to sign one top pairing Dman and a #7, so they could still add another UFA mid-priced winger (i.e. Whitney, Stempniak, Afinogenov, etc...)

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06-29-2010, 08:57 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All Day View Post
I'm well aware that Staal hasn't peaked. Still doesn't have the ceiling that Kessel does offensively and that is exactly what the Leafs need. Not reasonable at all.

Try again.
Uhh, my post I say "not that I'm saying he is going to be as good as Kessel offensively" then you respond, "still doesn't have the ceiling that Kessel does offensively"

"Try again" lol

and reasonable or not, it's the only way that Staal would go to the Leafs because he's the only thing you guys have that could potentially make moving Staal worthwhile. So we will happily hold onto our young stud and keep trying to compete for cups, you guys can hang onto your young guys and do whatever it is you guys do.

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06-29-2010, 08:58 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All Day View Post
I'm well aware that Staal hasn't peaked. Still doesn't have the ceiling that Kessel does offensively and that is exactly what the Leafs need. Not reasonable at all.

Try again.
It's obvious that Staal doesn't have the offensive potential that Kessel does, it is also just as obvious that Kessel doesn't have even close to the potential at the other parts of the game that Staal does.

Staal is a consistent 20 goal scoring Selke candidate who with more playing time, like he would get on just about any other team in the league, just might put up more points.

They are different types of players, but I think they have roughly the same value.
Not all teams would value them the same, if you need a goalscorer you want Kessel, if you want a center who can score and play defense like only a few other players in the league, you want Staal.

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06-29-2010, 09:08 AM
  #44
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i hate these Staal proposals... He is much better than Kulemin and Schenn will ever be combined. This reminds me proposals for Franzen. These two players (Staal and Frnazen) are pretty similar in terms of what they worth for respective franchises. To get them you need to start with your BEST prospect. Hall for Staal. Tavares for Staal. Okposo for Staal. That is how it works. Overpayment.

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06-29-2010, 09:14 AM
  #45
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Schenn is worth way more to Toronto than he is to any other team in the NHL. There is no way Pittsburgh trades Staal as it's almost the same thing. Staal is a big center and for a team like Montreal could be a really good fit, but even then he isn't as skilled as people make him out to be.

He's more of a 3rd line center (skill) with the size to be a 1st or 2nd. Don't get me wrong though in the NHL some guys make it on skill others on size and some on both, so not knocking the guy. But there's just no way Pittsburgh makes this deal, not in a million years.

Both players are worth far more to their respective teams than in general. Staal has his value for certain teams don't get me wrong, but Pittsburgh is where he's a perfect fit, why would they trade him?

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Old
06-29-2010, 09:23 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
^^^^^^^^^^^
KADRI............it's obvious you've never seen him play have you?

How so when JS has had a career high of what 49 points? he gets nearly 20 mins a game so there is no argument that with more time he'd be an elite scorer. I like the kid and think he's a great asset, but like his brother Marc I think he gets more love than deserved beacuse of the sexy last name

He is not a #1 centre nor will ever be, he just does not have the playmaking abilities and he certainly didn't exhibit them in the OHL. He is however a solid #2 stuck in the 3 hole in Pittsburgh

Kulemin is a very industrious complimentary 2nd line W, I'd much rather Toronto keep him, same goes for Schenn. If his developmental curve continues on it's present incline he'll finally start to flower this year, by the season after Komisarek will be redundant and Schenn will step firmly into the 2nd pair
Common misconception that Staal needs more ice time, but to produce more offensively he will need better quality ice time, i.e better linemates, top 6 role, less PK time (around 2-2.30 min) and first unit PP time. I find it hard to believe that he has no potential as a no.1, He's only 22. Not sure how you can have Kulemin as a 2nd line Winger when his career high is 16 goal 36 points. He has potential to be a 2nd line winger but until he puts up 20 goals and 40 points I don't think he can be considered one.

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06-29-2010, 09:46 AM
  #47
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Toronto needs a first line centre. We have Bozak and Kadri to fill in the 2nd line roles.

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06-29-2010, 09:47 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Common misconception that Staal needs more ice time, but to produce more offensively he will need better quality ice time, i.e better linemates, top 6 role, less PK time (around 2-2.30 min) and first unit PP time. I find it hard to believe that he has no potential as a no.1, He's only 22. Not sure how you can have Kulemin as a 2nd line Winger when his career high is 16 goal 36 points. He has potential to be a 2nd line winger but until he puts up 20 goals and 40 points I don't think he can be considered one.
Kulemin is similar to Staal. They're both decent offensively and both excell at most over aspects of the game. You would have a hard time finding someone to knock over Kulemin in the corners.

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06-29-2010, 09:56 AM
  #49
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I love these trades where Pens get a top 6 winger by trading the only top 6 winger they have now... makes perfect sense...

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06-29-2010, 10:04 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Canadian View Post
Kulemin is similar to Staal. They're both decent offensively and both excell at most over aspects of the game. You would have a hard time finding someone to knock over Kulemin in the corners.
Although it might be true that Kulemin is both offensively and defensively sound, it is also true that he hasn't been recognized enough yet for the things he does. Staal, on the other hand, has been a Selke finalist for two straight years, meaning everyone in the league fully realizes his two-way ability. Based on this fact alone would make Staal much more valuable.

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