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Is the Sun Belt Expansion becoming a success? (Mod: or Non-traditional markets)

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Old
06-29-2010, 07:49 PM
  #26
Melrose Munch
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Portal333 sounds mad people don't complain about the Kings/Ducks/Sharks/Stars the way they do the Panthers. Never mind the fact Miami-West Palm Beach is a terrible sports market period to start, with the Heat's empty seats during a playoff game and most of the stadium empty for the Florida Marlins.

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06-29-2010, 07:50 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Everyone knows that California is basically another country.
Apparently not.


For the record, I thought everyone knew that too.

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Old
06-29-2010, 07:51 PM
  #28
Melrose Munch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gibson Cup View Post
Nashville is in the CTZ.
Thanks, I'll edit that.

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06-29-2010, 08:19 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by lindrosfan88 View Post
Someone from the southeast complaining about CA? Color me shocked.... I mean we only see this on every newsblog on the web....
I'm not "complaining" about CA. I was surprised to see someone say it isn't south.

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06-29-2010, 08:38 PM
  #30
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I'm a couple hours late here, but if you call Virginia a part of the "south" to someone from Arlington or Fairfax, yeah, you wont be well received.

Like someone else said, the whole "southern" thing is purely cultural. That "culture" starts exactly when you reach Fredericksburg, VA. Northern Virginia is culturally, socially, economically, etc. a seperate state from the southern part of VA. The differences are very distinct and pretty noticeable even just driving along I-95.

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06-29-2010, 09:13 PM
  #31
rojac
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I believe that rather than "The South", the phrase you're looking for is "Sun Belt".

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Old
06-29-2010, 09:17 PM
  #32
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some do and some dont...

take for example at the begining of the season (pre-season)they were trying to sell season tickets for the Lightning for 229$, I cant guarantee you the quality here but in TOR, NYR, MTL you have only 3 of the cheapest tickets for that price. Some team belong there some dont, not only the southern teams some from up north as well... Bettman made some huge mistake, at least some teams are owned by billionaires that runs the team like it was a pocket full of change (*cough* Mr. Wang)...

Bottom line if a team dont make $$$ how are they suppose to operate

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/31/...s_Revenue.html
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/31/...s_Revenue.html
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/31/...s_Revenue.html
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/31/...s_Revenue.html


Last edited by alpine4life: 06-29-2010 at 09:46 PM.
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Old
06-29-2010, 09:17 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I'm a couple hours late here, but if you call Virginia a part of the "south" to someone from Arlington or Fairfax, yeah, you wont be well received.

Like someone else said, the whole "southern" thing is purely cultural. That "culture" starts exactly when you reach Fredericksburg, VA. Northern Virginia is culturally, socially, economically, etc. a seperate state from the southern part of VA. The differences are very distinct and pretty noticeable even just driving along I-95.
This is what people need to understand about the South.

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06-29-2010, 09:20 PM
  #34
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If anything, this thread is an absolutely outstanding example of exactly why this "southern expansion/southern experiment/hockey in the south doesn't work" trope perpetrated by some is such nonsense. People cannot even agree on what is south.

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06-29-2010, 09:31 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
If anything, this thread is an absolutely outstanding example of exactly why this "southern expansion/southern experiment/hockey in the south doesn't work" trope perpetrated by some is such nonsense. People cannot even agree on what is south.
Every American poster in this thread knows exactly where the South is.
The only disagreement was snow in LA.

Read the thread again but focus on The American posters. Everyone of the people are very much aware of where The South is in the US.
Now realize that The Floridian is saying the same thing as the Virginian that the South isn't based solely on geography and latitude but more on culture and that He is actually considered a Northerner by The Southerners above him because his culture is a 180 from theirs. Think of Miami. Then think of where Forrest Gump grew up in Greenbow Alabama.
Yankee is just a term used by baseball fans or to describe Americans in general, but it's also a term used by Southerners to describe Non-Southerners
And just since Florida was brought up, the panhandle of Florida is literally the only part of Florida that's in the South.


The people who don't understand where the South is are Canadians. And to be honest you probably shouldn't be expected to know. It's a cultural thing of another country and who could expect you to understand it anymore than an American understanding why rift between The Francophones and whatever they refer to the Non-francophones as.

Ironically, the difference is similar in a few ways.

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06-29-2010, 09:58 PM
  #36
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GEOMETRY 101...

NORTH is Up and SOUTH is DOWN boys and girls...

the 1st comment was a sarcastic one and everyone pretty much derailled...


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Old
06-29-2010, 10:08 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine4life View Post
GEOMETRY 101...

NORTH is Up and SOUTH is DOWN boys and girls...

the 1st comment was a sarcastic one and everyone pretty much derailled...

Culture 101: Learn about other countries before making ridiculous assumptions.




kinda funny how your line bends...incorrectly.

This is The South


Learn it Canadians.


Last edited by Bad Will Hunting: 06-29-2010 at 10:14 PM.
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Old
06-29-2010, 10:17 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
Culture 101: Learn about other countries before making ridiculous assumptions.




kinda funny how your line bends...incorrectly.

This is The South


Learn it Canadians.
Come on, every canadian knows anything below the Manson-Dixie Line is South.

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Old
06-29-2010, 10:30 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
The Francophones and whatever they refer to the Non-francophones as.
Anglophones

Good post.

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Old
06-29-2010, 10:39 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
.... whatever they refer to the Non-francophones as
iphones

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06-29-2010, 11:10 PM
  #41
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LOL... only in the US could you have a debate about whether California is a southern state or not.

Hey yiall, there is a world outside of the US, and even though inside the US you may consider only the states of South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana, and North Carolina to be "south"... From a continental, latitudinal perspective, the south of the US would also include Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and yes, California... For that matter, any state that mostly falls below the roughly the 39th parallel.

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Old
06-29-2010, 11:16 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
Every American poster in this thread knows exactly where the South is.
The only disagreement was snow in LA.

Read the thread again but focus on The American posters. Everyone of the people are very much aware of where The South is in the US.
Now realize that The Floridian is saying the same thing as the Virginian that the South isn't based solely on geography and latitude but more on culture and that He is actually considered a Northerner by The Southerners above him because his culture is a 180 from theirs. Think of Miami. Then think of where Forrest Gump grew up in Greenbow Alabama.
Yankee is just a term used by baseball fans or to describe Americans in general, but it's also a term used by Southerners to describe Non-Southerners
And just since Florida was brought up, the panhandle of Florida is literally the only part of Florida that's in the South.


The people who don't understand where the South is are Canadians. And to be honest you probably shouldn't be expected to know. It's a cultural thing of another country and who could expect you to understand it anymore than an American understanding why rift between The Francophones and whatever they refer to the Non-francophones as.

Ironically, the difference is similar in a few ways.
Huh?

Exactly what did you think I was trying to say? Do you think I was actually agreeing with any point made by those who even try to make a north/south distinction?

BTW, I have a pretty good idea of north/south. Try not to generalize. Some of us canucks actually have done a substantial amount of business in the US, and have many US acquaintances/business partners.

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Old
06-29-2010, 11:24 PM
  #43
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At least we are not fighting about which franchises belong where.

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Old
06-30-2010, 12:11 AM
  #44
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Well this has been derailed quite a bit...

To define South in the US, it's usually defined by politics and religion, most southern states vote republican and hold heavy religious values while California is much less of that.

However we should stop arguing about opinionated views of North South, you don't need to force someone that's not from your country to know less known detail's about your country's history. People can keep the definitions of North/South as they want, and it's not even like anyone is calling California the actual south, they're basing it geographically and it seems some want to base it culturally.

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Old
06-30-2010, 12:30 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
Huh?Some of us Canucks actually have done a substantial amount of business in the US, and have many US acquaintances/business partners.
Mason-Dixon Line GSC. I do business with folks daily south of it & I can testify to their oceans of humor & intellect. The "huh"?. Reminds me of a comedian who inserts a set of joke shop Buck Teeth, a Confederate Fedora & bemoans "the Great War of Northern Aggression". Too funny. Dont blame you in the least & thanks for standing up to the Slings & Arrows. Lima or Bust. Or as Redford said to Newman; "You just keep thinkin Butch, thats what yer good at" just before jumping 350' over a cliff into a muddy river. I saw this thread & kinda went, "not sure if this'll end well".

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Old
06-30-2010, 12:38 AM
  #46
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It's really quite simply, there is "THE South" culturally and the South in terms of geography. California is not part of "THE South" culturally -- properly understood. One can only image the cultural divide between say San Francisco and the bible belt.

Perhaps a better term is "the sunbelt" which could well include California, Nevada, Arizona, etc.

In terms of the draft, a record 11 Americans were selected in the first round (there were 14 Canadians selected), but none of the Americans were in the top 10 if I recall correctly, which was dominated by Canadian players. In addition, in the two previous drafts only 5 Americans were selected in the first round each year (so it's hard to see if this is a trend), but it is true that more American players are being drafted, notably at the expense of Russians. It appears that if you are a Russian and want to play in the NHL, you'll have to be a starting Goaltender, top pairing D-man or top 6 forward.

GHOST

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Old
06-30-2010, 12:41 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
You do make some very good points and your post would be a lot easier to read if you broke it up in to paragraphs.
My apologies. I went to the same High School as Quintin Tarantino in San Bernadino. English was second to shop. Love yer Avatar & Syntax.

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Old
06-30-2010, 01:24 AM
  #48
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Yeah, the more all-encompassing term to define the geographical southern U.S. is Sun Belt. The South is a cultural label that is generally used in reference to the states that formed the Confederacy during the Civil War.

Back on topic...

Yes, expansion has begun to look more and more like a success. I can't really speak for the other markets, but from my experiences in Tennessee, the Predators have been launched into the consciousness of regional sports fans, and just about everyone in my extended family has been to a few games here and there, and one of my cousins even bought a half-season ticket package. Most people are at least familiar with the high-profile names (Weber, Sullivan, Tootoo) and really enjoy the games.

The big thing that has helped is the propagation of artificial ice. This is something new that has come along in the last two decades that made expansion into the Sun Belt viable in the first place. It's tough to maintain ice quality in the muggy summers down here, but as the technology becomes less expensive, more facilities will start popping up.

And that leads to the main sticking point for the growth of the sport, which is cost. Hockey gear, especially for growing teenagers, is not cheap. You might be able to get a good deal on a first set or something, but eventually, you'll have to plonk down for some good equipment if your kid is serious about the sport, and a lot of folks just don't have that kind of money, especially for goalies. I think most families could scrape together the money to play for one of the local travel teams, but the start-up costs are so prohibitive that most folks never really get moving with the sport, and the kids end up playing football or baseball or basketball.

Ultimately, the sport may have to start contending with a growing interest in soccer, but if hometown talents like Blake Geoffrion and Emerson Etem can crack their clubs' rosters, it would definitely produce a spike in interest in the sport.

I think, provided that Phoenix stabilizes, the Sun Belt has sufficient top-level expansion (although Houston could still be considered for expansion if a new venue is constructed), so what I'm really hoping for is a growth in higher-level minor league clubs. We have a lot of really successful single-A clubs in the SPHL. Huntsville, Knoxville, and Fayetteville typically draw norht of 3,000 fans a night, and Columbus (Georgia) is up there as well. The minor league baseball culture is really strong down here, and I see no reason why hockey couldn't be the same way.


Last edited by worstfaceoffmanever: 06-30-2010 at 01:34 AM.
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Old
06-30-2010, 01:46 AM
  #49
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The quickest way to piss off any Californian is to refer to us as being "southerners" or saying that Calfornia is part of "the south". It rubs me the wrong way even thinking about it. If you're too ignorant to understand why it bothers us, then that's on you, but don't try and argue with us that we should be referred to as such.

Come down to California and call me a southerner to my face, see what happens.

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06-30-2010, 02:08 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
This is what people need to understand about the South.
Why is "the south" being equated to "southern"?

I get that certain areas in the US are called "the south" for cultural reasons and historic reasons....nobody was referencing that.

As far as basic geography goes....California is South. Texas is South. Florida is South. Washington state is North. Minnesota is North. Maine is North.

I can't believe there is this big discussion going on about "the south" and "southern".

Geez...nobody in this entire globe outside of "The South" cares where the boundaries are for "The South". It's in the southern portion of the US....geography was being discussed, not culture. A state being in the south of the US doesn't mean it is THE South....

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