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Marc Staal (offer sheet)

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Old
06-29-2010, 08:50 PM
  #76
Paradise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
It's an unwritten rule that you don't throw offer sheets at players. One which Kevin Lowe broke, and ever since he's broken it, nothing has gone his way and he was "promoted" to President of Hockey Operations.



It wasn't exactly a "promotion", because you don't fire a LEGENDARY figure in your club's history. Does nothing but create terrible PR.
Legendary figures get fired, demoted or even traded(Gretzky, Messier, etc), business is business and if a legend isn't making that team money he'll be gone

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06-29-2010, 08:56 PM
  #77
Carlos Ranger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfan7 View Post
2) It's laughable that people think Redden can be buried in the minors. The NHLPA would go insane and other NHL players would be skeptical of signing in New York as long as the Sather regime is still in charge. It would destroy the clubs credibility for the foreseeable future. (If it was that easy, teams like the Maple Leafs would have dumped Jeff Finger in the AHL years ago)
1, the NHLPA has no right to "go insane". it is perfectly within the rules. Players should stop seeking and signing such long term contracts if they're afraid of one day being considered overpaid, a target of criticism, and at risk of a demotion.

2, I doubt any UFA will care about the fate of Wade ****ing Redden if the Rangers or any team with a history of dumping players offers them the money they want. If they do? GOOD! We don't need any unconfident players signing for such long term, big money, and thinking they're guaranteed playing time if they're not worthy of it.

3, Finger.. "years ago"? He's only BEEN a leaf for under 2 years.

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Old
06-29-2010, 09:00 PM
  #78
Barbara Underhill
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Doubt the Rangers wouldn't match any offer thrown at Staal. They have 15m in cap space worst case scenario they match it and cut corners somewhere else. Also everyone in the league knows Redden's play has fallen off the edge of the earth, he should feel lucky he wasn't waived halfway through the season.

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Old
06-29-2010, 09:03 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
There's just one problem with the whole offer sheet idea:

Staal has to sign it.
IF

the Rags are offering lets say 3.75m X 3yrs

and

an offer sheet comes in from somewhere he might actually like to be, to the tune of

4.5m X 5 yrs

hmmm do you think it would be that hard of a decision to sign it?

@22.5m vs @11.25m guaranteed green train ridin' cash

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Old
06-29-2010, 09:12 PM
  #80
NOTENOUGHBREWER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
It's an unwritten rule that you don't throw offer sheets at players. One which Kevin Lowe broke, and ever since he's broken it, nothing has gone his way and he was "promoted" to President of Hockey Operations.



It wasn't exactly a "promotion", because you don't fire a LEGENDARY figure in your club's history. Does nothing but create terrible PR.
Bobby Clarke and Jim Rutherford broke those unwritten rules as well. Clarke resigned a season or two later but Rutherford is still going strong.

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Old
06-29-2010, 09:15 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by TOOMUCHBREWER View Post
Bobby Clarke and Jim Rutherford broke those unwritten rules as well. Clarke resigned a season or two later but Rutherford is still going strong.
So did Mike Gillis and John Davidson. They are still alive and kickin.

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Old
06-29-2010, 09:17 PM
  #82
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people are always talking about sending these big contracts like redden and dury and huet to the minors but i rarely ever see that type of stuff happen.
Does it really happen that often to make people think it is that easy?

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Old
06-29-2010, 09:20 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solitary View Post
Staal >>> Hemsky
Don't be delusional.
Based on what?

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Old
06-29-2010, 09:22 PM
  #84
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Don't know why offer sheets are such a big thing for some. Are they nice? Not really but they're allowed. If you can't get your player signed before he's becoming RFA well you should consider everything including offer sheets.

putting a player in the minors:

Why should the NHLPA go insane? Well easy the club has decided to give the player a contract like that sure you CAN put him in the minors but here are the disadvantages:

- bad reputation players would sign heavy front loaded contracts otherwise refusing to play for you

- your OWN players would want to get out asap because they could be next

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Old
06-29-2010, 09:29 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keslehr View Post
I'd give him the max offer sheet that would be 1st and 3rd.

Staal-Ballard
Edler-Ehrhoff
Salo-Bieksa

Pricey, but very, very good. If we can get rid of Bieksa and re-sign Mitchell and have Staal too....
If we could trade Bieksa for a 2nd it might work, especially since Salo will be gone next year. Otherwise that's way too much salary on the back-end.

This year:
Staal-Ballard
Edler-Ehrhoff
Salo-O'Brien

Next year:
Staal-Ballard
Edler-Ehrhoff
O'Brien-Sauve/KCon/Oberg

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Old
06-29-2010, 09:37 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zingbo2133 View Post
people are always talking about sending these big contracts like redden and dury and huet to the minors but i rarely ever see that type of stuff happen.
Does it really happen that often to make people think it is that easy?
Nobody talks about sending Drury to the minors. He has a NMC and he actually contributes (on the defensive side anyway).

As for whether it actually happens--Yes, it does. Brashear, Rissmiller and Darius Kasparaitus have all been sent to the minors for cap reasons, and that's just the Rangers.

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Old
06-29-2010, 10:22 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
1) if someone offeres staal that money then he FIRST has to sign there and want to go there.. hes always been a ranger fan so sorry to burst your bubble but he isnt going anywhere regardless..

2) it wouldnt cause any problems with the NHLPA and the league would say NOTHING about it. No player is gonna have a problem signing in ny if its done. You have no idea what your talking about, stick with your own teams problems. The only effect it will have on other FA signings will be that you better perform to what your being paid for or dont sign here.. We dont want players who are gonna ***** out and not play to expectations or what theyre worth.

3) that may be true but your basically contradicting yourself with Staal and the Rangers.
1) Nice to see that Staal has already signed in New York. Oh wait...

2) I'm glad you Rangers fans have rationalized this as a viable option. I'll believe it when I see it actually happen, rather than listen to speculation from a fan base that doesn't want to lose it's best young player.

3) If he was that big of a Rangers fan, I'm sure he'll sign a contract for 3.5 million dollars (which is not THAT bad of a contract offer for him). If he's holding out for more money, than his love for the Rangers is not that great. When Duchene is eligable for RFA, I guarentee you he will sign a deal quicker than Backstrom did, which was quite a bit ago.

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Old
06-29-2010, 10:25 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalfdiggity3 View Post
i love how all of you fans believe that the rangers will be in terrible shape moneywise in a couple of years.. first off Redden will be in the ahl thats 6.5m less, drury comes up in 2 years.. another 7m off.. then rosie up in 2 years as well theres another 5m...

That equals out to being about 19 million dollars off the cap. then wed have up some of our defensive prospects like mcdonald and valentenko, forwards such as grachev, kreider, and stepen. alot of young players on ELC.. well have plenty of salary capspace..


Ryan McDonagh..........

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Old
06-29-2010, 10:31 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shat Scar View Post
1, the NHLPA has no right to "go insane". it is perfectly within the rules. Players should stop seeking and signing such long term contracts if they're afraid of one day being considered overpaid, a target of criticism, and at risk of a demotion.

2, I doubt any UFA will care about the fate of Wade ****ing Redden if the Rangers or any team with a history of dumping players offers them the money they want. If they do? GOOD! We don't need any unconfident players signing for such long term, big money, and thinking they're guaranteed playing time if they're not worthy of it.

3, Finger.. "years ago"? He's only BEEN a leaf for under 2 years.
Yes, and Finger would have been dumped into the minors last season if things actually worked that way in real life, rather than in the minds of people on HFboards. He is not better than Kaberle, Schenn, Beauchemin, Komisarek, White/Phaneuf, Gunnarsson/Exelby, so why was he kept on the Maple Leafs NHL roster last season to play a 7th or 8th defenseman role? Because you can't throw established NHL players into the the minors without some backlash.

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Old
06-29-2010, 10:33 PM
  #90
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Oilers would give up a first and a third likely. Think about it its not like we're going to do amazing. (i hope we do but odds are against us)

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Old
06-29-2010, 10:40 PM
  #91
Gobo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyPwnsSoccer View Post
I loled Hemsky is better than Staal. And we have to add.
I don't know about that. Staal looks like he'll be capable of being a #1 defender and maybe even Norris canadidate while Hemsky needs some better linemates. He may have found them in Hall/Eberle/MPS but I wouldn't mind any of those 3 taking his position. Throw in the fact that the Oilers have a few too many forwards and you have my reasoning. Maybe I wouldn't give up Smid but we would have to give up a defender most likely and he is the only one that could fit under the Ranger's cap. Also I never said it needed to happen, I was just wondering if that was fair value.

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Old
06-29-2010, 10:45 PM
  #92
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RE: Redden.

I dont think it would cause anyone to think twice about signing for NYR. Redden is making huge money and is playing terrible. Incredibly terrible and barely looks like a bottom pairing guy.

I think most NHLers have enough self-confidence to think that would never happen to them.

If a guy like Brian Campbell who is still contributing well but causing cap trouble was sent to the minors I think it would send off some alarm bells with other players.

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Old
06-29-2010, 10:57 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
How about Hemsky, Smid, Cogliano?

That doesn't terribly hurt our re-build plans, and it still nets the Rangers quite the deal. Once again probably not enough, but if we really wanted him we would have to overpay (Which means including MPS/Eberle).
Mediocre. Oilers can't win this one. Any money you send our way may as well be used to pay Staal and if you OS him for anything short of your 1-2-3 we'll match that without thought.

The offers begins and ends with MPS+ and that isn't even remotely unrealistic with the names being thrown around. Give us a reason not to call you and match, not the expiring contracts and trash.

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Old
06-29-2010, 11:00 PM
  #94
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So yeah, about Staal, the hangup isn't money. It's been stated in more than a few places that the dollar amount is settled. What's being combatted is that Sather wants to give him a 4 year deal, thus retaining his RFA year, whereas Staal wants 5.

Who'da thunkit? The player wants MORE years and the GM isn't sure.

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Old
06-30-2010, 01:09 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by BPD View Post
So yeah, about Staal, the hangup isn't money. It's been stated in more than a few places that the dollar amount is settled. What's being combatted is that Sather wants to give him a 4 year deal, thus retaining his RFA year, whereas Staal wants 5.

Who'da thunkit? The player wants MORE years and the GM isn't sure.
Dont think so - for the same price Sather would be crazy not to want to include some of his UFA years. It's either 3 by Sather and 4 by Staal or it doesnt make sense.

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Old
06-30-2010, 07:36 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Cermi View Post
Dont think so - for the same price Sather would be crazy not to want to include some of his UFA years. It's either 3 by Sather and 4 by Staal or it doesnt make sense.
Staal is currently 22. UFA age is 27, no? Staal wants 5 - go right up to UFA age so when the contract expires he can have some leverage as to where and how much. Sather wants 4 years, so when the contract expires HE has leverage and above all, control.

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Old
06-30-2010, 08:23 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPD View Post
Staal is currently 22. UFA age is 27, no? Staal wants 5 - go right up to UFA age so when the contract expires he can have some leverage as to where and how much. Sather wants 4 years, so when the contract expires HE has leverage and above all, control.

It's 27 or 7 NHL seasons.

He has three years under his belt.
He'll be a UFA in 4 years at the age of 26.

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Old
06-30-2010, 08:36 AM
  #98
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.

As long as there is a salary cap AND guaranteed contracts, buyouts and burying players in the minors is ALWAYS going to be a viable and accepted option.

Kasparitias was sent to the minors to bury his contract.

The Rangers had no problems signing anyone after that.

The fact of the matter is that the NHLPA inherently consented to this type of management when they agreed to the Cap.

Since the players are still getting their money, the NHLPA will have absolutely NOTHING to say about it. Thinking otherwise is foolish.

The reason these players are not outright sent to the minors is that as a business, you want to try to get as much out of your investment as possible before you take your loss.

Redden is a good example of that. The Rangers spent 39 million on him. They thought a change of scenery could do him some good. However, the last 2 years represented a continued trend from the previous 3 years totalling out to 5 straight years of declining production. Not sure if they feel that they have gotten as much out of their investment as they are going to get, but 5 straight years of decline is to much proof that the player is no longer worth the money he he getting paid and no 3rd pairing defenceman should be paid like a #1.

Depending no what happens from Thursday on, if the Rangers add a Kovalchuk (wishful thinking on my part) that will spell the end of Redden on the Rangers.

That you can bet on.

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Old
06-30-2010, 09:07 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
IF

the Rags are offering lets say 3.75m X 3yrs

and

an offer sheet comes in from somewhere he might actually like to be, to the tune of

4.5m X 5 yrs

hmmm do you think it would be that hard of a decision to sign it?

@22.5m vs @11.25m guaranteed green train ridin' cash
First of all, you aren't comparing apples to apples. Of course he's going to get more money per year on a 5 year deal than a 3 year deal. He'd be giving up all of his arbitration years plus one UFA year. 4.5m x 5 yrs would be a bargain. Staal would probably be less inclined to sign that deal because he'd be giving up a year of UFA.

And second, it depends on the timing. If someone offers Staal 4.5m x 5 yrs on July 1st, why would Staal sign it? He'll still be negotiating with the Rangers and expecting that they can work out a deal that good or even better. There's no reason for him to consider offer sheets until the negotiations get to a point where Staal has to force the Rangers hand. That isn't going to happen until at least a couple weeks into free agency.

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Old
06-30-2010, 09:40 AM
  #100
ReggieDunlop7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOOMUCHBREWER View Post
RE: Redden.

I dont think it would cause anyone to think twice about signing for NYR. Redden is making huge money and is playing terrible. Incredibly terrible and barely looks like a bottom pairing guy.

I think most NHLers have enough self-confidence to think that would never happen to them.

If a guy like Brian Campbell who is still contributing well but causing cap trouble was sent to the minors I think it would send off some alarm bells with other players.
I think it's fine if The Rangers send Redden to the minors. His play simply hasn't been good enough.

But that's a hell of a contract to bury in the minors. I know that the Rangers are one of the most cash-flush teams in the league... But has the owner really said he'd be willing to pay 6M/ year for Redden not to play with the big club?

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