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Flyers acquire Meszaros from Tampa Bay for Second Round Pick in 2012

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Old
04-28-2011, 06:04 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
He is no longer the mush.
I was The Mush.

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04-28-2011, 06:10 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
True enough, but Boosh's stats aren't the only ones to look at.

It's just more proof that goaltending production is a product of the team, not the individual. Look at the all-star cast on the way out after round 1. Look at the cast that barely made it to round 2.
Eliminated goaltenders:
Lundqvist
Miller
Quick
Price
Fleury
Bryzgalov
Crawford
Emery

Advancing goaltenders:
Thomas
Luongo
Rinne
Niemi
Boucher
Roloson
Howard
Neuvirth

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04-28-2011, 06:13 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Advancing goaltenders:
Thomas
Luongo

Rinne
Niemi
Boucher
Roloson
Howard
Neuvirth
Not only do the eliminated goaltenders make a better, more talented list overall, but the only two legitimate A-class goalies left both almost got eliminated last round in 7 while their numbers are below pretty much everyone else on that list if I recall correctly.

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04-28-2011, 06:16 PM
  #379
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I just re-read the Shelley signing thread too. The collective "...wait, what? WHY!?" is awesome.

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04-28-2011, 08:54 PM
  #380
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i still remember this day! I was sooooo stoked.

this was i think the first thing that got me back onto the boards after game 6 :/

this was the spark of hope that got me going again!

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04-28-2011, 11:48 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Not only do the eliminated goaltenders make a better, more talented list overall, but the only two legitimate A-class goalies left both almost got eliminated last round in 7 while their numbers are below pretty much everyone else on that list if I recall correctly.
Not really an honest story you're telling there. Rinne was a *ing stud this year and then some. Niemi won the Cup last year (despite himself) and is now riding back-to-back very solid years, and was awesome in the second half. Sure, he struggled in the 1st round, but I'd prefer him to what we got. Roloson is just a solid goalie, and he's shown this ability to get hot before obviously... and many around these parts would have been more than happy if we had acquired him last year. Howard is going to be a very solid goalie in this league for years to come... and we'll see about Neuvirth, who had a very solid year and was a stud in the first round.

The eliminated goalies tell stories of their own, including guys like MAF, Lundqvist, Miller, and Price who were playing behind teams that didn't bring much of anything to the table. Price and Lundqvist were the only reason those teams were in the playoffs.

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04-28-2011, 11:53 PM
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
True enough, but Boosh's stats aren't the only ones to look at.

It's just more proof that goaltending production is a product of the team, not the individual. Look at the all-star cast on the way out after round 1. Look at the cast that barely made it to round 2.
Goaltending production is not the product of the team... there was nothing the team could do about the goals Boucher gave up to start Game 5. There was nothing the team could do about that ridiculous rebound Boucher gave up that led to the Gerbe goal.

Boucher played well, as he's proven more than capable of doing in the past, outside of a few bad moments. If he keeps that up, then he will post good numbers... as he has in every stop throughout his career regardless of the team in front of him. If he falls into one of his ruts, then his numbers will plummet... as has happened at every stop throughout his career, and why he has never been a starter in this league.

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04-29-2011, 12:10 AM
  #383
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this was one of the most important pickups for the flyers in a while. he came up big for this team.

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04-29-2011, 12:20 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
I think it would be more accurate to say Laviolette's management of the goaltending (going all the way to the third string??) was almost the undoing. I suspect he feels no small degree of gratitude to Brian Boucher for bailing him out of a potential fiasco.
when we learned that Bobrovsky wasnt ready for playoff hockey, we were unfortunately in a tough spot. We had to turn to Leighton to be the #2. Then came game 5 when Boucher imploded, and Lavi went with a hunch and it nearly blew up in his face. Thankfully Boucher did bail him out and because if Lavi's hunch that didnt work out, we will most likely never see Leighton in a game for this team ever again. Things have a way of working out. Even if it seems its twisted and ****ed up.

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04-29-2011, 12:58 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
when we learned that Bobrovsky wasnt ready for playoff hockey, we were unfortunately in a tough spot. We had to turn to Leighton to be the #2. Then came game 5 when Boucher imploded, and Lavi went with a hunch and it nearly blew up in his face. Thankfully Boucher did bail him out and because if Lavi's hunch that didnt work out, we will most likely never see Leighton in a game for this team ever again. Things have a way of working out. Even if it seems its twisted and ****ed up.
I believe that Boosh's being a good soldier mentality and rep has been his undoing in times like these... times when he otherwise would be tapped on the shoulder o be The Man... and then being his saving grace for a while.

First off I in no way argue with Jester's assertion that Boosh has a way of being a very good goalie for a while and then being a bad one for a while... never being able to grab he ring and hold it for extended periods of time... With that being said; Boosh may have earned the starting job in the play offs BUT his ability to be able to come off the bench cold and be effective, coupled with the Organization's desire to see if Bob could come in his rookie year and pull a Hextall made it an easy choice to bypass Boucher for Bob... knowing that he would be that good soldier and come in if and when needed.

When he looked so terrible in how he gave up those quick goals in Game Five his good soldier mentality and the knowledge that he would return cold if needed made it easy for Lavy to go with his gut and put Leights in in hopes of another lightening in the bottle run like he had against the Habs last ECFs... Otherwise maybe Lavy would have just gone back to Boosh in Game Six and relied on Leighton to be the safety valve in Game Six.

So... Boosh was passed over for Game one and again shelved for Game Six because of his ability to pitch in relief -- Bob was not as ready or used to that -- A squeakier wheel may have gotten more of a shot to take the ball and run from the get-go.

That my theory anyway.

Now he interesting thing would be what will happen if he craps the bed in another game... Will Bob get the stars thereafter OR will Boosh be pulled only to start the next game?

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04-29-2011, 01:29 AM
  #386
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I remember when I thought, "...4M dollars for a 3rd pairing defensemen. Way to go Holmgren."

Yeah I was one of those.

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04-29-2011, 01:59 AM
  #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Not really an honest story you're telling there. Rinne was a *ing stud this year and then some. Niemi won the Cup last year (despite himself) and is now riding back-to-back very solid years, and was awesome in the second half. Sure, he struggled in the 1st round, but I'd prefer him to what we got. Roloson is just a solid goalie, and he's shown this ability to get hot before obviously... and many around these parts would have been more than happy if we had acquired him last year. Howard is going to be a very solid goalie in this league for years to come... and we'll see about Neuvirth, who had a very solid year and was a stud in the first round.

The eliminated goalies tell stories of their own, including guys like MAF, Lundqvist, Miller, and Price who were playing behind teams that didn't bring much of anything to the table. Price and Lundqvist were the only reason those teams were in the playoffs.
I think with five out of eight of these surviving goalies there's no predicting who should perform better on a given night and you would be just as well off picking out of a hat.

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04-29-2011, 04:47 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
I remember when I thought, "...4M dollars for a 3rd pairing defensemen. Way to go Holmgren."

Yeah I was one of those.
I still kind of do. I remember writing on another board when this trade happened that if Homer now swung around and traded Carle or Coburn this could turn out to be great.

Meszaros has been one of our most consistent players this season and he deserves all the praise he gets, but still... to go out and get a 4M top 4 defender who haven't yet shown to be able to be the go to guy on his pairing wasn't exactly what we seemed to need last summer.

*For anyone interested my wish list for last year was to resign our rfa's and then sign Chris Higgins, Carlo Colaiacovo and Josť Theodore... I think that would have been doable actually, but maybe it's a good thing I'm nowhere near running a hockey team after all.

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04-29-2011, 06:42 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
I still kind of do. I remember writing on another board when this trade happened that if Homer now swung around and traded Carle or Coburn this could turn out to be great.

Meszaros has been one of our most consistent players this season and he deserves all the praise he gets, but still... to go out and get a 4M top 4 defender who haven't yet shown to be able to be the go to guy on his pairing wasn't exactly what we seemed to need last summer.

*For anyone interested my wish list for last year was to resign our rfa's and then sign Chris Higgins, Carlo Colaiacovo and Josť Theodore... I think that would have been doable actually, but maybe it's a good thing I'm nowhere near running a hockey team after all.
Really? Because i see Lavy showing trust in the guy as a go to guy. He was playing with Pronger in game 7. That is the ultimate shutdown pair. He leads the team with ice time in the playoffs. He's more then a plugger.

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04-29-2011, 06:50 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Boucher - 0.934 SV% / 2.10 GAA / 4-1-0
Price - 0.934 SV% / 2.11 GAA / 3-4-0
Thomas - 0.926 SV% / 2.25 GAA / 4-3-0
Lundqvist - 0.917 SV% / 2.25 GAA / 1-4-0
Miller - 0.917 SV% / 2.93 GAA / 3-4-0
Quick - 0.913 SV% / 3.16 GAA / 2-4-0
Luongo - 0.903 SV% / 2.97 GAA / 4-3-0
Fleury - 0.899 SV% / 2.52 GAA / 3-4-0

Haters gonna hate.
did you notice that we had to pull our goalie 3 times in 7 games? Or are you too busy overrating our marginal prospects?

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04-29-2011, 06:54 AM
  #391
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did you notice that we had to pull our goalie 3 times in 7 games? Or are you too busy overrating our marginal prospects?
Also, I would hope that you wouldn't actually prefer Boucher to those goalies. Buffalo's forwards were trash outside of Vanek really.

I hope Boucher keeps playing well, but we would still be better off with a Thomas, Rinne, Price, etc

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04-29-2011, 07:06 AM
  #392
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Really? Because i see Lavy showing trust in the guy as a go to guy. He was playing with Pronger in game 7. That is the ultimate shutdown pair. He leads the team with ice time in the playoffs. He's more then a plugger.
Yeah, as I said he's a top 4 dman, but, at least at the time, he hadn't shown that he was able to lead his own pairing. He had been forced to take the role as #1 in Tampa and it didn't go exactly as hoped. We already had Carle and Coburn who had yet to show that they could survive without Pronger/Timonen. Getting someone like Meszaros didn't seem to be a necessity to me at least.

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04-29-2011, 08:19 AM
  #393
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i don't like this trade, because im bitter. bitter than volchenkov signed with the devils for a mere .5 million more a season that meszaros makes. if holmgren weren't so short-sighted, we could have had him instead.
I love this post.

Meszaros this season

82 games played, 8 goals, 24 assists, +32!
7 games played, 1 goal, 4 assists, +1


Volchenkov this season
57 games played, 8 assists, +3

Granted that doesn't tell the whole tale. Who would you take? He's pretty much been the go to defender this year for the flyers. I knew he would. Just think, he had about 5 goals taken off him this year because they were touched at the last second(they were going in regardless). If he hit the net more often with that cannon he would be lethal, I hope he starts working on that next season.

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04-29-2011, 08:33 AM
  #394
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Yeah, Mezarros >>> Volchenkov
Really, he's been more solid than Martin too.

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04-29-2011, 09:08 AM
  #395
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Originally Posted by HoverCarle View Post
Also, I would hope that you wouldn't actually prefer Boucher to those goalies. Buffalo's forwards were trash outside of Vanek really.

I hope Boucher keeps playing well, but we would still be better off with a Thomas, Rinne, Price, etc
I don't understand why people make that assumption.

It really blows my mind that I can see that over and over again when it should be more than obvious that my philosophy actually hinges on the fact that Boucher is inferior to those goaltenders.

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04-29-2011, 10:52 AM
  #396
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I don't understand why people make that assumption.

It really blows my mind that I can see that over and over again when it should be more than obvious that my philosophy actually hinges on the fact that Boucher is inferior to those goaltenders.
well when all you post is stats, with Boucher at the top with no discussion or words that is bound to happen

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04-29-2011, 12:26 PM
  #397
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This is yet another example of people using the ends to justify the means. I was shaky on this deal (and feel free to search for my posts in this thread), not because I didn't like Meszaros, but just because it's a lot of money to commit to a 3rd pairing. I expected Meszaros to be good for us, and he was even better than I expected.

If the Phillies went out and got a 5th Ace, let's say Lincecum; I would severely criticize the move. Is it because Lincecum is bad? No, he's still a great pitcher. It just doesn't make the most sense to commit even more money to the 5th starter's spot. It may be better spent elsewhere. The logic is/was the same for my wariness on the Meszaros move. In fact, it was even more questionable because Meszaros had question marks (Lincecum does not), and I had beef with the timing of the move.

So again, criticism of the MEANS is not criticism of the PLAYER.

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04-29-2011, 12:36 PM
  #398
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This is yet another example of people using the ends to justify the means. I was shaky on this deal (and feel free to search for my posts in this thread), not because I didn't like Meszaros, but just because it's a lot of money to commit to a 3rd pairing. I expected Meszaros to be good for us, and he was even better than I expected.

If the Phillies went out and got a 5th Ace, let's say Lincecum; I would severely criticize the move. Is it because Lincecum is bad? No, he's still a great pitcher. It just doesn't make the most sense to commit even more money to the 5th starter's spot. It may be better spent elsewhere. The logic is/was the same for my wariness on the Meszaros move. In fact, it was even more questionable because Meszaros had question marks (Lincecum does not), and I had beef with the timing of the move.

So again, criticism of the MEANS is not criticism of the PLAYER.
More like criticism of the strategy. Holmgren invested this much cash in the D for a reason. You think it unwise, as it "may be better spent elsewhere." I personally don't have a problem having that much money tied up at D and obviously Homer doesn't either, as I think investing in D is probably more important than investing in any other position, including goaltender. Give me 6 great defenseman and I'll make run after run after run.

If anything, I think we could stand to invest a little less up front and throw the savings into goalie.

Anyhow, I'd have a lot more respect for you guys if you simply manned up and took your crow medium rare - the move has undoubtedly been successful, though I'm sure some of you will want to argue that.

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04-29-2011, 12:40 PM
  #399
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
This is yet another example of people using the ends to justify the means. I was shaky on this deal (and feel free to search for my posts in this thread), not because I didn't like Meszaros, but just because it's a lot of money to commit to a 3rd pairing. I expected Meszaros to be good for us, and he was even better than I expected.

If the Phillies went out and got a 5th Ace, let's say Lincecum; I would severely criticize the move. Is it because Lincecum is bad? No, he's still a great pitcher. It just doesn't make the most sense to commit even more money to the 5th starter's spot. It may be better spent elsewhere. The logic is/was the same for my wariness on the Meszaros move. In fact, it was even more questionable because Meszaros had question marks (Lincecum does not), and I had beef with the timing of the move.

So again, criticism of the MEANS is not criticism of the PLAYER.
yeah my old posts in this thread were fine with Mez as a player(I watched a lot of Sens), just though the timing and cost was high.

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04-29-2011, 12:41 PM
  #400
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
If the Phillies went out and got a 5th Ace, let's say Lincecum; I would severely criticize the move. Is it because Lincecum is bad? No, he's still a great pitcher. It just doesn't make the most sense to commit even more money to the 5th starter's spot. It may be better spent elsewhere. The logic is/was the same for my wariness on the Meszaros move. In fact, it was even more questionable because Meszaros had question marks (Lincecum does not), and I had beef with the timing of the move.
Couldn't disagree more. The moves (both the Meszaros trade as a 5th defensemen and the Lincecum theoretical trade as a 5th ace) are inherently different.

Meszaros helps you every game.

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