I'd like to point out again that Armstrong will not get 1st or 2nd line duty for those of you who keep suggesting it. Burke said today that he sees him as a 3rd liner going forward.
how many 3rd liners in the NHL make 3 million? Or even 2 million?
2 weeks ago we were worried about PG giving Dominic Moore 2 million as a (pretty good) 3rd line centre.
Seriously, how many 3rd liners are making 3 million a year? I don't mean underachieveing top 6 guys demoted to the 3rd line, I'm talking projected 3rd liner making 3 million? Awful deal.
Seriously, how many 3rd liners are making 3 million a year? I don't mean underachieveing top 6 guys demoted to the 3rd line, I'm talking projected 3rd liner making 3 million? Awful deal.
Boyd produced similar numbers last season with less ice time, and he brings a similar game (minus the cheap shots). for 2.35M per season less!
I hear the Kool-Aid tastes great in Toronto though.
Boyd produced similar numbers last season with less ice time, and he brings a similar game (minus the cheap shots). for 2.35M per season less!
I hear the Kool-Aid tastes great in Toronto though.
Armstrong is an excellent 3rd liner, if overpaid it would be only my maybe 300-500k I'm sure he had a couple 2.5 and more offers today.
He is the kinda player this team desperately needs, if we didn't have cap issues I would've have hoped to have signed him even at 3m but not a penny more.
Armstrong is an excellent 3rd liner, if overpaid it would be only my maybe 300-500k I'm sure he had a couple 2.5 and more offers today.
Only in Burke land...
Again, no 3rd liners make 3 million, very few even come close to 2 million. This is a huge overpayment.
It's easy to do this kind of contract when you have no real talent to look after, but when the leafs get serious about winning this kind of thing doesnt cut it (along with the other 5 ridic contracts they have).
For all the flash they have on D and the wing, they have ZERO centremen.
Armstrong is some kind of older Lapierre, in other words a great 2nd or 1st liner in Toronto
Kessel-Bozak-Versteeg
Armstrong-Grabovski-Kulemin
What a truculent top6! Only 3 AHLers next year, they could beat the Bulldogs I guess
a much better "older" lapierre...
2x 15+ goal seasons
1x 20 goal season
2x 40pt seasons
3x 30+pt season (actually 2x34+ and 1x29+...)
and he's only 27.
at 25 (a whopping 2 years younger) lapierre has:
1x more than 7 goals (15)
1x more than 18pts (28)
i don't think you can really compare the two.
Armstrong is a very good, if not excellent, 3rd line player, who can fit in a top 6 for stretches
Lapierre is a 4th line player who occasionally shows flashes of being a solid 3rd line player.
3M is a bit rich for Armstrong, for sure, but not that much of an "over pay", and given that he was a UFA, i think that's about what any team could reasonably expect to pay for a player of his caliber. I'm sure that he had other similar offers on the table. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if part of the reason he went to Toronto (aside from being back in Canada/in a hockey market) was b/c with their roster, he'll get a shot at being a top 6 player in camp, and even if he doesn't secure it, he'll likely get plenty of opportunities during the season.
he was a first round pick, and a pretty good scorer in the WHL... I bet in his head he still wants to prove himself as a top 6 player.
and before laughing too hard at the leafs top 6.... remember that last year, without Versteeg/Armstrong, they were only 3 goals behind us in goals for... and they did that with a top 6 that (even with hagman/stajan) was WAY cheaper than ours...
Kulemin will eat a chunk of that cap space (3 - 3.5 mill), which leaves you with about 5.5 mill and you still need to sign 5 players.
Lets say you trade away Kaberle and his cap friendly contract you just created a hole or losing your best puck mover/PP quaterback. Most likely you will get a top6 guy making about the same money (ie Savard).
Bozak is also an RFA next year and if he develops into a top C, you need $$$ to sign him.
I think they have no choice but to bury Finger in the AHL.
Kulemin isn't signing for 3 million its clear and frank. Kaberle and grabovski are being moved by the off-season more and more it seems.
Armstrong is a typical 3rd line winger, than can aid and transition into the second line just to be the muscle. It was the main reason he was signed, and it was the rason tsn thought it was reasonable. Yep we payed him 500k extra.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Guy
A nice addition for the Leafs but Armstrong is over-rated and hence big time overpaid. This is something like the Leafs acquiring Phaneuf.....Dion and Colby are overrated because they make a few highight reels with their big hits. Dion's worse than McCabe defensively and Colby's offense is far too limted to warrant $3m per season.
Wait Phaneuf is overrated how? Worse than mccabe? when phaneuf got a norris nomination and hit 20 goal - 15+ goals as an Offensive defensemen?
Kulemin isn't signing for 3 million its clear and frank. Kaberle and grabovski are being moved by the off-season more and more it seems.
Armstrong is a typical 3rd line winger, than can aid and transition into the second line just to be the muscle. It was the main reason he was signed, and it was the rason tsn thought it was reasonable. Yep we payed him 500k extra.
Wait Phaneuf is overrated how? Worse than mccabe? when phaneuf got a norris nomination and hit 20 goal - 15+ goals as an Offensive defensemen?
Colby is great but dont u think a 3rd liner is overpaid at 3M? im not just talking about Colby but any 3rd liner out there.
This is the only signing all day that made me go "AAAHHHHH F...", you get the point.
I knew it wasn't possible for the Habs to figure him into their cap situation, especially at $3 million a year for 3 years, but why did it have to be the Leafs? Now their bottom 6 looks pretty good, but the question still remains, where the hell will their scoring come from this season?
This is the only signing all day that made me go "AAAHHHHH F...", you get the point.
I knew it wasn't possible for the Habs to figure him into their cap situation, especially at $3 million a year for 3 years, but why did it have to be the Leafs? Now their bottom 6 looks pretty good, but the question still remains, where the hell will their scoring come from this season?
everyone in the leafs fanbase is wondering that...we got versteeg now who else can we possible get hahah. we grind but where are we going to draw the fire power from lol
See we're looking at this all wrong, this is Burke, Wilson and the Leaf's we're talking about here. 2mil is what Armstrong will make for playing hockey and the other 1mil per season is compensation for Burke declaring him a top six forward and making bold, unfounded predictions that he won't be able to live up to, Wilson berating him at every press conference and interview, and for his sharp drop in value after three seasons with the leafs when his confidence is shot and his career is ruined.
At 2.5 it's a fair deal. He makes 30-40 points, and plays a little physical and agitates. He sparks the team. He's a complimentary player. 3 mil is too much, some would say 2.5 is too much, but at UFA 2.5 is fairly reasonable. If the habs gave him 2.5 i'd have a hard time complaining.
It's not that bad a deal, I assume Kulemin is pricing himself out of toronto and kaberle is on the trade block. So getting a legit top 6 forward back is very reasonable.
Kessel is a good player, bozak had a good end of the year and guys like kadri may make the team. Realisticly, if boston trades savard for kaberle the leafs end up with a few good pieces. Not superstars, but as I said, kessel is already an excellent player. They added vertseeg into top 6 as well. Adding the likes of armstrong on 3rd line, isn't a bad choice. Not to mention, they still have time to sign a few UFAs.
It all depends on what burke does but there is potential to revamp a roster there. Not easy though.
I don't like grabo, so if they get rid of him, better for them.
Tyler Bozak's current cap hit is $3.75M due to bonuses. His next contract will likely be in the neighbourhood of $2.5M to $3M of guaranteed money for 2-3 years. This means that his cap hit actually drops.
Kulemin will be signed for $2.5M to $3M.
Schenn's current cap hit is $2.975M, he's RFA next summer and will get somewhere near $2.5M of guaranteed salary. Gunnarsson will get a raise from his hit of $800,000. Probably around $1.5M.
- JS Giguere will be off the books, freeing up $6M.
- Kaberle will be off the books, freeing up $4.25M.
- Jeff Finger could be sent down, freeing up $3.5M.
- Mikhail Grabovski could be moved, freeing up $2.9M.
Lots of cap space available. Nobody expecting a big raise anytime soon.
Seriously, how many 3rd liners are making 3 million a year? I don't mean underachieveing top 6 guys demoted to the 3rd line, I'm talking projected 3rd liner making 3 million? Awful deal.
Nobody is denying he is overpaid. I feel that he is overpaid by about 500 thousand, but it's not cap crippling. And I'm fairly certain you realize that.
What's great is the Leafs got him for a discount, because he lowered his demands to sign with us.
Again, it's the term that makes it work. If it was $3 million over 5 years, then I'd have a huge problem with it. I think the Leafs were forced to give him slightly more than they wanted to because they didn't want to commit to a larger term. That being said, they still got a discount for the player they wanted so I can't complain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboflex
how many 3rd liners in the NHL make 3 million? Or even 2 million?
2 weeks ago we were worried about PG giving Dominic Moore 2 million as a (pretty good) 3rd line centre.
Teams overpay players. If it doesn't negatively affect their cap situation and they can retain their key assets (unlike Chicago), then I don't see the issue. Moving on from that and assessing this strictly from a hockey perspective, it looks like the Leafs needed a Tucker-esque presence on the team because we were very soft last year.
The problem the Leafs have is all these small overpayments add up.
All their D men except kaberle are overpaid by 0.5 to 1 million, same with armstrong and kessel, and the goalie is overpaid bigtime.
The Leafs have some shiny players, but the glaring problem to me is that their #1 centre is Grabovski and their #2 centre is a rookie Tyler Bozak. Probably the weakest team down the middle in the entire league, yikes. They desperately need an all star centre.
The problem the Leafs have is all these small overpayments add up.
All their D men except kaberle are overpaid by 0.5 to 1 million, same with armstrong and kessel, and the goalie is overpaid bigtime.
The Leafs have some shiny players, but the glaring problem to me is that their #1 centre is Grabovski and their #2 centre is a rookie Tyler Bozak. Probably the weakest team down the middle in the entire league, yikes. They desperately need an all star centre.
You know what I think is funny for TO.....If I was BB, Kaberle would be on my list to keep.....looks like they are burning bridges with this player cause I'm sure he would have resigned there but now??????
