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Avs Sticking with "The Plan"

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Old
07-01-2010, 06:52 PM
  #26
Jeff_Dyck_#1
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>Where does this leave us?

With the worst defense in the league.

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07-01-2010, 07:03 PM
  #27
WarriorOfGandhi
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The UFA defenseman crop this year was far from being able to really improve the team. Sign one and the shots against rise from 30th in the league to 25th at best. The only way to really get results would have been to spend over a quarter of the salary cap on Martin, Michalek, and Volchenkov, getting into a bidding war in the process and ruining any chance of the prospects cracking the roster. Sherman gets an A+ for not jeopardizing the future by putting a bandaid on a team that needs a quadruple bypass

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07-01-2010, 07:10 PM
  #28
Steve Varmalov
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
The UFA defenseman crop this year was far from being able to really improve the team. Sign one and the shots against rise from 30th in the league to 25th at best. The only way to really get results would have been to spend over a quarter of the salary cap on Martin, Michalek, and Volchenkov, getting into a bidding war in the process and ruining any chance of the prospects cracking the roster. Sherman gets an A+ for not jeopardizing the future by putting a bandaid on a team that needs a quadruple bypass
Couldn't agree more!!! Most GMs lose their minds on July 1st and I'm really happy Sherman is stinking to the plan and I will give him an A for today. I don't think Martin/Michalek/Volchenkov is worth 4 or 5 million; if we would of signed one of them in a few years we would be crying over how over paid they were (just like people are with Hannan and Liles), so I'm happy with what we did today

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07-01-2010, 07:11 PM
  #29
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I would have liked to see 1 defenseman... but seeing the contracts that were given, I'll pass. The only one that I'd take was Michalek, but I wonder if he would have signed for that amount in Colorado.

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07-01-2010, 07:12 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
The UFA defenseman crop this year was far from being able to really improve the team. Sign one and the shots against rise from 30th in the league to 25th at best. The only way to really get results would have been to spend over a quarter of the salary cap on Martin, Michalek, and Volchenkov, getting into a bidding war in the process and ruining any chance of the prospects cracking the roster. Sherman gets an A+ for not jeopardizing the future by putting a bandaid on a team that needs a quadruple bypass
yea but we coulda used a little bit of help on d, if only to lessen the load on hannan/quincey/foote so that they can perform better. I like the avs team as a whole, but i would have liked it more with michalek martin or mitchell (who i guess we can still grab)

i think we need to trade liles if for nothing more to free up a spot for one of the rookies to take his spot, and also so we can sign a guy like mitchell as well.

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07-01-2010, 07:17 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by avsfan91 View Post
Couldn't agree more!!! Most GMs lose their minds on July 1st and I'm really happy Sherman is stinking to the plan and I will give him an A for today. I don't think Martin/Michalek/Volchenkov is worth 4 or 5 million; if we would of signed one of them in a few years we would be crying over how over paid they were (just like people are with Hannan and Liles), so I'm happy with what we did today
LOL. I love this typo.

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07-01-2010, 07:19 PM
  #32
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Whose plan is this? Kroenke's wallet?

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07-01-2010, 07:22 PM
  #33
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Kubina for 3M or less would be nice.

Who else is on the market, that signed cheap would help us...

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07-01-2010, 07:23 PM
  #34
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If they want to "stick to the plan" and "build from within", then you guys can stop mentioning Mitchell.

If Sherman won't improve the team by signing a 27 year old for four years at 4-4.5 million, why would he want an old/slow player coming off a concussion? Why not put a rookie in there instead of paying Mitchell 2.5 million for one year? Mitchell isn't the missing piece for a cup run and he wouldn't be in their plans for the future. It would be a pointless signing.

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07-01-2010, 07:25 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL33 View Post
Whose plan is this? Kroenke's wallet?
I'm glad someone said it. 100% truth. Does anyone really believe this is the mastermind plot of LaCroix? After all those years of siphoning off prospects to win?

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07-01-2010, 07:31 PM
  #36
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Who's ready for another year of crappy D?????

I'm highly disappointed in what happened today....Were still stuck with our best D-man being a #2 or 3, and about 5-6 other parts that may or may not show up on any given night...

I'm not asking for a spending spree, just something..

You got Adam Foote. Which I think was a crummy signing, but that's the one that filled the last spot on the blue line.

I think there's also an issue that potentially tied Sherman's hands here. I firmly believe that Sherman wants to have at least two or three of his young defensemen in the regular lineup within two years, three at the outside. So, he probably would enjoy some of these UFA defensemen out there, but likely only for a 1- or 2-year contract. Well, look at the UFA contracts being signed by the really good defensemen. They're not 2 year deals. All of the top guys got 4/5/6 year deals. Sherman likely doesn't want deals like that, because even if we ignore the cap ramifications, he'd be filling up roster spots that young defensemen would potentially then lose.

In addition, five year $25M contracts are very hard to move in trades. So, if you give out one of those contracts, you've *got* to give that player the roster spot for the length of the contract. Which can go either way. Ask the Rangers how that's working out with Wade Redden.

-AB

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Old
07-01-2010, 07:32 PM
  #37
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People need to relax about or D Core. It's get an infusion of youth this year and next. Things will be fine there. Throwing away money on D is stupid until you atleast know how some of these prospects turn out.

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07-01-2010, 07:35 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by TheArrow19
Either Sherman cant spend much more then the cap floor and is using the build from within as an excuse.
Ding ding ding!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL33 View Post
Whose plan is this? Kroenke's wallet?
Ding ding ding!


Two winners in one thread!

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Old
07-01-2010, 07:35 PM
  #39
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Another year of Anderson getting shot at like Sonny at the tollbooth.

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Old
07-01-2010, 07:39 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Hasbro View Post
Another year of Anderson getting shot at like Sonny at the tollbooth.


Stay away from the cans!

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Old
07-01-2010, 07:52 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
People need to relax about or D Core. It's get an infusion of youth this year and next. Things will be fine there. Throwing away money on D is stupid until you atleast know how some of these prospects turn out.
The infusion of youth won't really come until the 2011-2013 seasons when all of Shattenkirk, Holos, Gaunce, Elliot, Cohen, Barrie, etc are ready to play and the Hannan and Liles contracts finally comes off the books (wooohooo!). Then we'll see what we really have. This next year one of Holos and Shattenkirk probably makes it as the #6/7 guy and will likely play sparingly. This is why it would make sense to sign a depth guy and let them get lots of minutes at LEM. Next year we'll sufer through Hannan and Foote's final year with the team and see what Wilson and Cumiskey are made of and see if Quincey progresses from a disappointing finish. But the real youth movement is still 2-3 years away.

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Old
07-01-2010, 07:58 PM
  #42
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Lower those ticket prices then. You want to develop from within? Cool. However, you need to stop charging like you still have a championship caliber team. Sakic, Forsberg, and Roy are gone. The price tags associated with seeing them should be too. Duchene is awesome, but he's not that type of draw yet. As soon as he is, or if others develop into stars, then feel free to raise the prices back up.

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Old
07-01-2010, 08:18 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by AvsWraith View Post
Lower those ticket prices then. You want to develop from within? Cool. However, you need to stop charging like you still have a championship caliber team. Sakic, Forsberg, and Roy are gone. The price tags associated with seeing them should be too. Duchene is awesome, but he's not that type of draw yet. As soon as he is, or if others develop into stars, then feel free to raise the prices back up.
agreed

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Old
07-01-2010, 08:21 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Starrlinx View Post
The infusion of youth won't really come until the 2011-2013 seasons when all of Shattenkirk, Holos, Gaunce, Elliot, Cohen, Barrie, etc are ready to play and the Hannan and Liles contracts finally comes off the books (wooohooo!). Then we'll see what we really have. This next year one of Holos and Shattenkirk probably makes it as the #6/7 guy and will likely play sparingly. This is why it would make sense to sign a depth guy and let them get lots of minutes at LEM. Next year we'll sufer through Hannan and Foote's final year with the team and see what Wilson and Cumiskey are made of and see if Quincey progresses from a disappointing finish. But the real youth movement is still 2-3 years away.
I expect some of the kids to start this season, the lack of signings shows us the Avs are going with the youth movement possibly sooner than we would have thought.

Like someone mentioned before, the Avs won't commit a contract to a guy for 1-year when they fully plan on having the youth step in. Whether we like it or not, the Avs are sticking to their guns on the rebuild with youth. This is a risky move, I hope it pays off in the long run.

Also, I also completely agree the Avs need to lower ticket prices. No more Sakic & Forsberg out there, so these tickets shouldn't be premium cost.

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Old
07-01-2010, 08:32 PM
  #45
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I don't think just adding prospects or guys in our system to the returning D from last year is going to fix anything this year. Andy should be getting peppered when we play good teams again and he'll have to stand on his head for 4 games to get us past the 1st round of the playoffs.

I like the basics of "the plan," but we have a crapload of cap space and can afford to sign someone. In addition to the enormous amount of cap space we have, we only have 5 players signed for 2011-2012. Adding a big time UFA won't screw us out of re-signing Duchene or anyone else.

People always talk about how we are doing Chicago's plan and that got them a Cup, but they signed Hossa and Campbell to get there. I'm not advocating that we do dumb things like overpay for a Huet or Campbell and have to blow it up after one Cup, but we should utilize the UFA market.

Maybe I'm just disappointed that we are looking like we're gonna put a cap floor team on the ice and still have to pay $100 to sit lower level for one ticket to an Avs game.

I don't know. I think there are/were some guys out there who could help us, would fit the youth movement, and are at positions of need.

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Old
07-01-2010, 08:37 PM
  #46
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I expect some of the kids to start this season, the lack of signings shows us the Avs are going with the youth movement possibly sooner than we would have thought.
It will start but it won't really be in full effect for another year or two. Look at this years team as it is now. Of the six defensemen under contract only Wilson seems likely to lose his spot in training camp. So that only leaves one or two available spots for Holos, Shattenkirk or Gaunce depending on whether the Avs sign a veteran for that extra defensemen. Now with injuries we will see a few more over the course of the season but I don't think we'll have a real idea of what we have for another year or two.

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07-01-2010, 08:39 PM
  #47
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I think this is all unfair to Anderson. With the re-signing of Budaj and no signings of big name defensemen, Craig has to save our butts again. We might not even make the playoffs next year. Our offense has to be stellar! If we go in with Hannan-Quincey, Cumiskey-Foote, Liles-Wilson we will definitely fail.

Foote will be worse than last year. Quincey lost steam towards the end of the year, we have to hope he can pick up his game. Cumiskey, he's fast...that's it horrible on the defensive end. Hannan, ugh don't get me started(overpaid). Liles is a hard worker, but Sacco does not have much trust in him. And Wilson is fine with me because that position will be rotated with Shattenkirk, Cohen, Barrie, etc. Where does this leave us? With the worst defense in the league.

I would have loved to see the Avs move Hannan and Cumiskey or Liles. Then sign Martin or Volchenkov. I still want us to go after Mitchell, but we'll see.

We still haven't fit the need of a top LW and 2 good defensemen.

I love the idea of building from within, but sometimes you have to branch out. Look what happened when we got Mueller. He was great!
If anyone is expecting the Adam Foote of yesteryear, I feel bad for their delusion. Foote has a roster spot entirely because of his "intangibles." He's still a mean guy, but he's not the thorn he used to be. He's a great leader, and for 1 million, he's no longer overpaid.

Everyone points out that Quincey lost steam. And? It was his second year in the league, he's not allowed the sophomore slump everyone's scared will strike Duchene/Stewart? He also averaged more TOI this past year. I'm not worried. He impressed me early in the season, and I'm eager to have him on for this year.

Cumiskey I'll grant was a pain to watch sometimes, if he develops his offensive game a little more, he'd be a good guy to pair with a solid stay-at-home guy. As of right now, I wouldn't guarantee him a roster spot.

Hannan being overpaid? Yeah? What skin is it off the team? This is his last year, and we're sniffing the floor of the salary cap. Last year he was nearly worth his salary in his play, and he seems to have developed a bit of a leadership role. Hannan isn't the kind of guy who can bear-hug forwards and slam them to the ice--at least, he isn't anymore, so when he looks invisible, people take that as a knock against him. He's very much like Lefebvre used to be for us, a calm, collected, professional and well-positioned defenseman who quietly eats minutes and holds his end of the ice down well. I'd like to see Hannan re-signed. Maybe 2 years, 3-3.5 million. No question.

"Liles is a hard worker." This is another quotation that I disagree with. Liles is a very skilled guy, but he needs to be our best guy. The franchise invested a lot into him when they gave him that 4.2whatever million contract, and he really hasn't lived up to it. He has all the talent to, and in stretches he's shown up when the team needs it, but overall, he takes a few too many nights off. I wouldn't be outraged if Liles was shipped out, but I think he might start be coming around. 4.2million on a bottom pairing d-man is a back breaker, but like I said, we're not pressed to the cap, anyway.

Wilson I'd say has one of the firmest roster spots of all our d-men. He's a rarity in the Avs defensive prospect pool-- a big, heavy hitting stay at home guy. We have plenty of smallish offensive soft guys in the pipe, and very few guys that can throw hits like Wilson. Of course, injuries are a concern, and whenever someone can hit like Wilson, you worry about them taking themselves out of position too often just to lay a guy out. (Keith Ballard Syndrome.) But I like Wilson a lot. I had never heard of him before the Leopold trade, but I was pleasantly surprised with his contributions this year. He's a hard working guy, and if he could wise up about the game a little (quite a few rookie mistakes--as could be expected from a rookie) we'll have a solid 3-4 guy on our hands.

I'll admit, I would have loved a nice free agent signing (Michalek, Martin, Volchenkov) but in the end, Sherman made a smart move. Martin's had questions about his effort put forth before, and the last thing you want to do with a guy like that is give him a big payday. Volchenkov is not worth locking up for several years at the cap hit he has-- not with what he brings to the table. Michalek being a shot-blocking specialist, as well as a right-handed shot was a huge plus, but in the end, nothing wagered, nothing lost. (Plus, Shattenkirk, Cohen, Barrie, and Elliott are all righties anyway.)

All told, it's not the most exciting offseason in Avs history, but we're playing it smart-- something the organization has failed to do in the past.

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Old
07-01-2010, 08:40 PM
  #48
The Pwnerer
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I would think that developing a team is best under a winning environment. Making the playoffs is a plus and the experience gained from it goes without saying. I fear instead of progressing next year the team will take a step back. Instead of comparing to Chicago maybe we should look at the Philly route, only took them 2 years or so and now they are in championship mode.

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Old
07-01-2010, 09:12 PM
  #49
ColoradoHockeyFan
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Lower those ticket prices then.
Haha. These guys?

Not. Gonna. Happen.

Not a chance.

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Old
07-01-2010, 09:14 PM
  #50
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Instead of comparing to Chicago maybe we should look at the Philly route, only took them 2 years or so and now they are in championship mode.
But will they actually win it? They barely squeezed into the playoffs last, and got miracle performances out of several players in what only can be described as a miracle run.

I don't think either route is a viable option. In the Chicago case, I think it's impossible because their team is the product of being very bad for a long time, in addition to being able to draft the NHL's best defenseman with a late second round draft pick. They also signed - and overpaid - alot of players as well. Philly is the opposite; they were completely devoid of anything that could be called young talent (save for Richards and Carter) in 2007, and through savvy trades built a decent team that had a good run this year.

In the end, both teams end up in the same exact spot - forced to trade away talent to stay under the salary cap. It hasn't bitten Philadelphia yet, but all the rumors of Jeff Carter being forced out will likely eventually be reality.

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