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Holmgren has sent this organization spiraling downward

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Old
07-19-2010, 02:32 PM
  #251
DeadPhish5858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsbergIsOdin View Post
I feel like im about to **** my pants with sadness and rage.

I hope Peter signs in TB now.
If he does I'll switch over.

Gagne - Forsberg - Downie

That would be the greatest line in the history of the game.

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07-19-2010, 02:32 PM
  #252
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**** you Paul Holmgren...**** YOU!

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07-19-2010, 02:47 PM
  #253
Teezax
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I don't understand what he's doing, I really can't figure it out. Even if he's trying to pry a big ticket goaltender it still makes no sense. It still seems like he's got something up his sleeve. How much cap space we got now?

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07-19-2010, 03:01 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Teezax View Post
I don't understand what he's doing, I really can't figure it out. Even if he's trying to pry a big ticket goaltender it still makes no sense. It still seems like he's got something up his sleeve. How much cap space we got now?
Not much.

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07-19-2010, 04:21 PM
  #255
Bryz4shiz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
I've still been a supporter of Holmgren for awhile. He did completely turn the team around in one year and made it to the finals last year. But this entire off season has pushed me to the other side. Fast.
**** Homer

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07-19-2010, 04:53 PM
  #256
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I've come to the conclusion that Paul Holmgren is the Obama of the NHL. Nothing but promises of hope and change, but then quickly turns it all around and ****S the people he promised to help and support.

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Old
07-19-2010, 04:57 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by ToTheNet View Post
I've come to the conclusion that Paul Holmgren is the Obama of the NHL. Nothing but promises of hope and change, but then quickly turns it all around and ****S the people he promised to help and support.
And the worst part about it is, he had about as simple an offseason to-do list as you can imagine.

He had a roster that was 2 wins from the Cup, and only needed a legit starting goalie, a cheap vet for the 3rd D-pair, and some forward depth.

I mean, that was really it, and we were even fortunate enough to be in a complete buyer's market for goalies. And he STILL ****ED UP...

I mean seriously, how the hell do you **** that up?

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Old
07-19-2010, 05:10 PM
  #258
healthyscratch
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Paul Holmgren trades...

11-13-06 Traded a 2007 4th rounder (Justin Vaive) for Todd Fedoruk
12-16-06 Traded Freddy Meyer, 2007 Cond 3rd Rd (Mark Katic) for Alexei Zhitnik
12-20-06 Traded Randy Robataille, 2008 5th Rd (Matt Martin) for Mike York
02-15-07 Traded Peter Forsberg for Ryan Parent, Scott Upshall, 2007 1st Rd (TRF back to Nashville), 2007 3rd Rd(TRF to Wash-Phil Desimone)
02-24-07 Traded Alexei Zhitnik for Braydon Coburn
02-26-07 Traded Kyle Calder for Lasse Kukkonen, 2007 3rd Rd (Garret Klotz)
02-27-07 Traded 2007 2nd Rd for Martin Biron
06-04-07 Traded Matt Ellison for futures
06-18-07 Traded Nashville's 07 1st Rd for rights to Kimmo Timmonen, Scott Hartnell
06-23-07 Traded 2008 2nd RD, Nashville's 2007 3rd RD for WASH 2007 2nd RD
07-01-07 Traded Joni Pitkanen, Geoff Sanderson, 2009 3rd Rd for Jason Smith, Joffrey Lupul
12-10-07 Traded Jussi Timonen for a 2009 7th Rd
12-19-07 Traded Ben Eager for Jim Vandermeer
02-19-08 Traded 2008 3rd Rd for Jaroslav Modry
02-20-08 Traded Jim Vandermeer for 2009 3rd Rd
02-25-08 Traded Alexander Picard, 2009 2nd Rd for Vaclav Prospal
06-06-08 Traded Ryan Potulny for Danny Syret
06-18-08 Traded Rights to Vaclav Prospal for 2008 7th Rd, 2009 Cond pick
06-20-08 Traded RJ Umberger, 2008 4th Rd for 2008 1st Rd, 2008 3rd Rd
06-20-08 Traded 2008 1st Rd for Steve Eminger, 2008 3rd Rd
06-21-08 Traded 2008 7th Rd for 2009 7th Rd
06-24-08 Traded Triston Grant, 2009 7th Rd for Janne Niskala
06-30-08 Traded Kyle Greentree for Tim Ramholt
06-30-08 Traded Janne Niskala for 2009 6th Rd
07-01-08 Traded Denis Gauthier, 2010 2nd Rd for Patrick Hersley, Ned Lukacevic
10-13-08 Traded Ned Lukacevic, Cond 2009 4th Rd for Andrew Alberts
10-30-08 Traded Tim Ramholt for Josh Gratton
11-07-08 Traded Steve Eminger, Steve Downie, 2009 4th Rd for Matt Carle, 2009 3rd Rd
03-04-09 Traded Scottie Upshall, 2011 2nd Rd for Dan Carcillo
03-04-09 Traded 2009 6th Rd for Kyle Mclaren (trade nullified)
06-26-09 Traded Joffrey Lupul, Luca Sbisa, 2009 1st Rd, 2010 1st Rd, 2010/11 Cond 3rd Rd for Chris Pronger and Ryan Dingle
10-20-09 Traded Michael Ratchuk for Stefan Legein
02-06-10 Traded Ole-Kristian Tollefsen, 2011 5th Rd for Ville Leino
06-19-10 Traded Ryan Parent for rights to Dan Hamhuis, 2011 Cond Pick
06-25-10 Traded RIghts to Dan Hamhuis for 2011 3rd Rd
06-26-10 Traded Jon Matsumoto for 2010 7th Rd
07-01-10 Traded 2012 2nd Rd for Andrei Mezsaros
07-19-10 Traded Simon Gagne for Matt Walker, 2011 4th Rd


Last edited by healthyscratch: 07-19-2010 at 05:21 PM.
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Old
07-19-2010, 05:16 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Paul Holmgren trades...
02-26-07 Traded Kyle Calder for Lasse Kukkonen, 2007 3rd Rd (Garret Klotz)
First he won that trade. And then he failed. Oh, how he failed.

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Old
07-19-2010, 07:36 PM
  #260
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For the record, I'll be wearing anti-Holmgren clothing every game I go to this year.

I don't get to many games, but I'll be doing it...whether it's me making it myself or someone starts marketing them.

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Old
07-19-2010, 07:41 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Shadow Flyer View Post
And the worst part about it is, he had about as simple an offseason to-do list as you can imagine.

He had a roster that was 2 wins from the Cup, and only needed a legit starting goalie, a cheap vet for the 3rd D-pair, and some forward depth.

I mean, that was really it, and we were even fortunate enough to be in a complete buyer's market for goalies. And he STILL ****ED UP...

I mean seriously, how the hell do you **** that up?
This is the point that most people seem to be missing....All of these moves were unnecessary other than the domino effect of the moves themselves.

It was simple:

1) Odonnel
2) Turco/Ellis
3) 3rd line forward to replace Asham....I would have gone with Higgins, but we could have possible afforded Zherdev as well anyway, depending on Turco's price.

Hartnell Briere Leino
Gagne Richards Giroux
JVR Carter Higgins
Carcillo Betts Lappy

Carle Pronger
Coburn Timonen
Bartulis Odonnel

Turco
Boucher

Instead, I have no idea what this team looks like other than an overpaid 3rd pairing dman, horrible starting goalie and $3 million tied up in a couple of goons that shouldnt be in the NHL

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07-19-2010, 07:54 PM
  #262
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So we went in the offseason with the following goals
1. Improve goaltending in a buyers market
2. Get some solid vets to anchor the 3rd pair
3. resign Coburn and Carcillo
4. Maintain some cap flexibility

As soon as homer jumped the gun with leighton and didn't waive boosh, things just went downhill from there.

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Old
07-19-2010, 08:41 PM
  #263
chimrichalds18
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I'm really starting to look at Holmgren and Co. the way I look at the Eagle's front office...and that's not a good thing b/c I absolutely hate Banner, Reid, & Co.

The arrogance is what's particularly maddening. Anyway, at least with the Eagles you know 1) they have a plan and 2) they can manage the salary cap. Holmgren's becoming less predictable and is still reckless.

I'm hoping he's still employing what he learned from the Bobby Clarke School of Truthtelling when it comes to him being comfortable with our goalie situation.

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Old
07-19-2010, 09:23 PM
  #264
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[QUOTE=healthyscratch;26991329]Paul Holmgren trades...

11-13-06 Traded a 2007 4th rounder (Justin Vaive) for Todd Fedoruk-WON
12-16-06 Traded Freddy Meyer, 2007 Cond 3rd Rd (Mark Katic) for Alexei Zhitnik-WON
12-20-06 Traded Randy Robataille, 2008 5th Rd (Matt Martin) for Mike York-WON
02-15-07 Traded Peter Forsberg for Ryan Parent, Scott Upshall, 2007 1st Rd (TRF back to Nashville), 2007 3rd Rd(TRF to Wash-Phil Desimone)-WON
02-24-07 Traded Alexei Zhitnik for Braydon Coburn-WON
02-26-07 Traded Kyle Calder for Lasse Kukkonen, 2007 3rd Rd (Garret Klotz)-WASH
02-27-07 Traded 2007 2nd Rd for Martin Biron-WON
06-04-07 Traded Matt Ellison for futures-WASH
06-18-07 Traded Nashville's 07 1st Rd for rights to Kimmo Timmonen, Scott Hartnell-WON
06-23-07 Traded 2008 2nd RD, Nashville's 2007 3rd RD for WASH 2007 2nd RD-unknown
07-01-07 Traded Joni Pitkanen, Geoff Sanderson, 2009 3rd Rd for Jason Smith, Joffrey Lupul-WON then LOST
12-10-07 Traded Jussi Timonen for a 2009 7th Rd-WASH
12-19-07 Traded Ben Eager for Jim Vandermeer-LOST
02-19-08 Traded 2008 3rd Rd for Jaroslav Modry-LOST
02-20-08 Traded Jim Vandermeer for 2009 3rd Rd-WON
02-25-08 Traded Alexander Picard, 2009 2nd Rd for Vaclav Prospal-WON
06-06-08 Traded Ryan Potulny for Danny Syret-LOST
06-18-08 Traded Rights to Vaclav Prospal for 2008 7th Rd, 2009 Cond pick-WON
06-20-08 Traded RJ Umberger, 2008 4th Rd for 2008 1st Rd, 2008 3rd Rd-WON
06-20-08 Traded 2008 1st Rd for Steve Eminger, 2008 3rd Rd-LOST
06-21-08 Traded 2008 7th Rd for 2009 7th Rd-WASH
06-24-08 Traded Triston Grant, 2009 7th Rd for Janne Niskala-WASH
06-30-08 Traded Kyle Greentree for Tim Ramholt-WASH
06-30-08 Traded Janne Niskala for 2009 6th Rd-WASH
07-01-08 Traded Denis Gauthier, 2010 2nd Rd for Patrick Hersley, Ned Lukacevic-LOST
10-13-08 Traded Ned Lukacevic, Cond 2009 4th Rd for Andrew Alberts-WON
10-30-08 Traded Tim Ramholt for Josh Gratton-WASH
11-07-08 Traded Steve Eminger, Steve Downie, 2009 4th Rd for Matt Carle, 2009 3rd Rd-WASH
03-04-09 Traded Scottie Upshall, 2011 2nd Rd for Dan Carcillo-LOST
03-04-09 Traded 2009 6th Rd for Kyle Mclaren (trade nullified)
06-26-09 Traded Joffrey Lupul, Luca Sbisa, 2009 1st Rd, 2010 1st Rd, 2010/11 Cond 3rd Rd for Chris Pronger and Ryan Dingle-WON(but overpaid)
10-20-09 Traded Michael Ratchuk for Stefan Legein-WON
02-06-10 Traded Ole-Kristian Tollefsen, 2011 5th Rd for Ville Leino-WON
06-19-10 Traded Ryan Parent for rights to Dan Hamhuis, 2011 Cond Pick-LOST
06-25-10 Traded RIghts to Dan Hamhuis for 2011 3rd Rd-WON
06-26-10 Traded Jon Matsumoto for 2010 7th Rd-WASH
07-01-10 Traded 2012 2nd Rd for Andrei Mezsaros-TBD
07-19-10 Traded Simon Gagne for Matt Walker, 2011 4th Rd-LOST BIG TIME

here is how I see it

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Old
07-19-2010, 09:46 PM
  #265
BillyShoe1721
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Paul Holmgren trades...

11-13-06 Traded a 2007 4th rounder (Justin Vaive) for Todd Fedoruk-Meh
12-16-06 Traded Freddy Meyer, 2007 Cond 3rd Rd (Mark Katic) for Alexei Zhitnik-Good because it got us Zhitnik, who got us Coburn
12-20-06 Traded Randy Robataille, 2008 5th Rd (Matt Martin) for Mike York-Bad because Mike York blows and Matt Martin is going to be a good 3rd liner one day.
02-15-07 Traded Peter Forsberg for Ryan Parent, Scott Upshall, 2007 1st Rd (TRF back to Nashville), 2007 3rd Rd(TRF to Wash-Phil Desimone)-Good, turned into Carcillo, 3 years of Parent, Timonen, and Hartnell.
02-24-07 Traded Alexei Zhitnik for Braydon Coburn-Very good.
02-26-07 Traded Kyle Calder for Lasse Kukkonen, 2007 3rd Rd (Garret Klotz)-Good because Calder was a bum and Kukkonen was serviceable as a 7th.
02-27-07 Traded 2007 2nd Rd for Martin Biron-Marty was good for us while he was here, and I still like him. Good.
06-04-07 Traded Matt Ellison for futures-Meh.
06-18-07 Traded Nashville's 07 1st Rd for rights to Kimmo Timmonen, Scott Hartnell-Good.
06-23-07 Traded 2008 2nd RD, Nashville's 2007 3rd RD for WASH 2007 2nd RD-Decent, got us Kevin Marshall.
07-01-07 Traded Joni Pitkanen, Geoff Sanderson, 2009 3rd Rd for Jason Smith, Joffrey Lupul-Meh. Pitkanen had loads of potential and is showing it in Carolina. I don't think he ever should have been traded. Smith was a warrior that I liked and Lupul was decent but is gone now. It did partly get us Pronger, so I'll give it decent.
12-10-07 Traded Jussi Timonen for a 2009 7th Rd-Meh.
12-19-07 Traded Ben Eager for Jim Vandermeer-Bad. Vandermeer blew and Eager is an effective 4th liner.
02-19-08 Traded 2008 3rd Rd for Jaroslav Modry-Bad. Modry sucked.
02-20-08 Traded Jim Vandermeer for 2009 3rd Rd-Good purely because we got rid of that bum, and we Bertilsson, who I like.
02-25-08 Traded Alexander Picard, 2009 2nd Rd for Vaclav Prospal-Good. Picard was nothing great and Vinny was great with Danny. He was great in the first round and we don't get to the ECF without him.
06-06-08 Traded Ryan Potulny for Danny Syvret-Bad. Syvret never made an impact and Potulny was decent last year.
06-18-08 Traded Rights to Vaclav Prospal for 2008 7th Rd, 2009 Cond pick-Good, we weren't re-signing Vinny anyway.
06-20-08 Traded RJ Umberger, 2008 4th Rd for 2008 1st Rd, 2008 3rd Rd-Good, RJ had to go unfortunately, and it got us Sbisa.
06-20-08 Traded 2008 1st Rd for Steve Eminger, 2008 3rd Rd-Absolutely atrocious. Might be the worst move on here. We could have Jacob Markstrom, one of the best goalie prospects in hockey, or John Carlson, a future stud two-way top pairing defenseman.
06-21-08 Traded 2008 7th Rd for 2009 7th Rd-Meh.
06-24-08 Traded Triston Grant, 2009 7th Rd for Janne Niskala-Meh.
06-30-08 Traded Kyle Greentree for Tim Ramholt-Meh.
06-30-08 Traded Janne Niskala for 2009 6th Rd-Meh.
07-01-08 Traded Denis Gauthier, 2010 2nd Rd for Patrick Hersley, Ned Lukacevic-Brutal asset management. Traded away a valuable 2nd that is Jason Zucker right now, who would be our best forward prospect.
10-13-08 Traded Ned Lukacevic, Cond 2009 4th Rd for Andrew Alberts-Good, didn't really give anything up and Alberts was decent.
10-30-08 Traded Tim Ramholt for Josh Gratton-Meh.
11-07-08 Traded Steve Eminger, Steve Downie, 2009 4th Rd for Matt Carle, 2009 3rd Rd-Bad. Downie is the best player in the deal and has really found a niche.
03-04-09 Traded Scottie Upshall, 2011 2nd Rd for Dan Carcillo-Bad. Upshall is clearly a better player and Paul threw in a 2nd for no reason.
03-04-09 Traded 2009 6th Rd for Kyle Mclaren (trade nullified)-Meh even if it wasn't nullified.
06-26-09 Traded Joffrey Lupul, Luca Sbisa, 2009 1st Rd, 2010 1st Rd, 2010/11 Cond 3rd Rd for Chris Pronger and Ryan Dingle-Can't call it yet. If we win a cup when Pronger is here, it's an automatic win. If we don't, fail, especially if Sbisa breaks out.
10-20-09 Traded Michael Ratchuk for Stefan Legein-Good. Ratchuk is nothing special and Legein has developed into a good RW prospect.
02-06-10 Traded Ole-Kristian Tollefsen, 2011 5th Rd for Ville Leino-Great trade, Ville is a very talented player.
06-19-10 Traded Ryan Parent for rights to Dan Hamhuis, 2011 Cond Pick-Good because it got rid of Parent.
06-25-10 Traded RIghts to Dan Hamhuis for 2011 3rd Rd-Good because we got a free 3rd round pick.
06-26-10 Traded Jon Matsumoto for 2010 7th Rd-Good, Matsumoto was bolting to the KHL if we didn't trade him. Something for nothing.
07-01-10 Traded 2012 2nd Rd for Andrei Mezsaros-Can't make a call yet. If Meszaros fulfills his potential, it's a huge win. If he doesn't, fail.
07-19-10 Traded Simon Gagne for Matt Walker, 2011 4th Rd-Bad.

I count

16 Good
2 Decent
9 Meh
8 Bad.

This is purely trades. But when he ****s up, it seems like it's in a significant deal like Downie and Gagne. Signing is a whole different matter.

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:55 PM
  #266
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This all makes no sense to me. Homer needed to make 3-4 moves this offseason. As stated before, upgrade the goaltending, upgrade the third d-pair, and get someone to play the wing with JVR and Giroux. That's it. Had he done only two of those things I think the fans would have been pretty happy (if one of those two was goaltending). Instead he went and completely ****ed the whole thing up.

Signing O'Donnel would have been nearly enough to upgrade the third pairing. If not, Homer could have gone and got Foster for $1.8M/yr instead of taking on Meszaros' $4.0M/yr.

Signing Leighton is not a bad move, but Homer could have had Ellis for the same price. He could have signed them both for about $3.0M/yr total and that would have taken care of upgrading the goaltending situation.

No reason to sign Shelley, either.

Not trading for Meszaros and not signing Shelley saves $5.1M. Don't sign Zherdev and that makes it $7.1M. More than enough to give Coburn his deal, upgrade the 3rd pairing, upgrade the goaltending.

There was no reason whatsoever for Homer to put the team over the cap. It's inexcusable really. In a summer when he needed to make 3-4 moves, ha made 6-7. And in doing so, somehow ran a fan favorite and career Flyer out of town (while getting little for him) and took away from our scoring depth. Yet somehow, Homer is happy with the team right now. What a joke.

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07-20-2010, 07:49 AM
  #267
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Apparently:
Hamhuis' rights>Gagne

27 year old Kovalchuk for less than half of the season at $6.3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>30 year old Gagne for a whole season at $5.25

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07-20-2010, 08:07 AM
  #268
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There was no reason whatsoever for Homer to put the team over the cap. It's inexcusable really. In a summer when he needed to make 3-4 moves, ha made 6-7. And in doing so, somehow ran a fan favorite and career Flyer out of town (while getting little for him) and took away from our scoring depth. Yet somehow, Homer is happy with the team right now. What a joke.
Welcome to the board. Looks like you'll fit in just fine!

There's an introduction thread at the top of the page, if you'd like!

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07-20-2010, 09:58 AM
  #269
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07-20-2010, 10:29 AM
  #270
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With everything Homer did, i really hope the Zherdev signing will be a winning bet, cause Philly lost Gagne, let's hope Giroux will achieve another level next year and score more than 20 goals.

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07-20-2010, 11:05 AM
  #271
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07-20-2010, 11:06 AM
  #272
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I just spit coffee all over my desk......

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07-20-2010, 11:07 AM
  #273
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I just spit coffee all over my desk......
Huh, would've thought you went the other direction with that...

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07-20-2010, 11:24 AM
  #274
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1.7 million should of been the "reward" on that poster. the contract for Matt Walker.

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07-20-2010, 11:34 AM
  #275
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Huh, would've thought you went the other direction with that...
lol.

Dirty Dirty man.

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