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Organizational Breakdown (50 Contracts)

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Old
07-03-2010, 10:04 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by yanokovich View Post
He make the Team,no doubt
No doubt? The guy wasn't exactly impressive in his stint with the Habs last season.

Ryan White is precisely the kind of player who needs to spend as much time as possible in the AHL. There is no need to rush him.

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07-03-2010, 10:47 PM
  #27
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Who the hell is Marvin Degon ?
We signed him for 2007-08 to play in Hamilton. In the summer of 2008, he was a RFA (because we tendered him a qualifying offer) but signed to play in Germany and now we have his NHL's rights until the summer he qualifies for UFA (2011).

We still list him on the official website:
http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/roster.htm?type=prospect

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07-03-2010, 11:40 PM
  #28
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Based on that list, the average age for ap layer under contract by the Montreal Canadiens (considering that two of our players are one year older once the UFA deadline comes around) is 24.86.

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07-03-2010, 11:48 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Railman View Post
No doubt? The guy wasn't exactly impressive in his stint with the Habs last season.

Ryan White is precisely the kind of player who needs to spend as much time as possible in the AHL. There is no need to rush him.
Whether he he makes the roster or not, saying he wasn't impressive is distorting the truth. Everyone on this board loved what he brought. If you expected points from him, then you don't know what kind of player he is. Either way, i'll agree that it isn't a sure thing that he makes the team, but if anyone makes the bottom 2 lines as a graduate from last year's hamilton team, it's white IMO.

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07-04-2010, 12:01 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Stjonnypopo View Post
Based on that list, the average age for ap layer under contract by the Montreal Canadiens (considering that two of our players are one year older once the UFA deadline comes around) is 24.86.
That means i still have a chance to sign with the habs !


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07-04-2010, 05:32 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
And here's next summer's UFA's/RFA's as of today

UFA
Markov, Hammer, Gill, Auld, Darche, Sanford

RFA
Kostitsyn, Pouliot, Gorges, O'Byrne, Pyatt, Pacioretty, Boyd, Maxwell, Weber, White, Klubertanz, St-Denis

Players rights we own that expire next summer,
Perezhogin, Marvin Degon

Prospects rights we will lose next summer if we don't sign
Joonas Nättinen, Petteri Similä by June 1st, 2011
Joe Stejskal, Patrick Johnson by August 15th, 2011
Joe Stejskal & Joonas Nattinen would be the only 2 guys I would sign as of right now. Johnson is a no and we'll see how Simila does in Finland this year.

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07-04-2010, 08:19 AM
  #32
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Trotter is an interesting prospect, I'd hate to see him go. I like Carle too.

I never knew that they would have to pass through waivers next season. I got a projected lineup below and it seems to me like there will be one spot up for grabs for one of the ahl players, and maybe Trotter can earn it

Cammy-Pleks-akost
Pouliot-Gomez-Gionta
Trotter-Eller-Moen
Lapierre-Boyd-Pyatt

Am I missing an obvious regular?
I don't know about "regular" (since not many around here expect him to start the year as one), but you're assuming that Trotter beats out Max Pac for that 3rd line. What if Gauthier has a vision of Max as one of Eller's future wingers, and wants PM getting them working together asap? I'd like to see how that shakes down.

It is entirely likely, though, that he could beat out all the European prospect group for the last bottom 6 spot. I could see one of them beating him too, though. In the end, though, I don't think you missed any "regulars". Looking at your lines, btw, I could even see Pyatt playing LW on that 3rd line instead of Trotter (assuming he made the cut), and I think it makes more sense to slot Lappy into the RW spot and consider that they may need a LH shot on the other wing of the "4th" line.

Or, for shts n gggles, have a 3rd line of Moen-Eller-Lapierre and fill in the 4th line spots from there, hehe. Oh, and the FA season is still young!

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07-04-2010, 09:08 AM
  #33
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Considering that we have space left for another 4 or 5 contracts and the fact that we need to sign at least 2 more d-men to play in Hamilton this year, I find it a little bit ridiculous that the Habs don't sign Fischer and give him a chance to prove himself. I know some folks prefer pick #50 in a weak draft but I don't.

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07-04-2010, 09:39 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Whether he he makes the roster or not, saying he wasn't impressive is distorting the truth. Everyone on this board loved what he brought. If you expected points from him, then you don't know what kind of player he is. Either way, i'll agree that it isn't a sure thing that he makes the team, but if anyone makes the bottom 2 lines as a graduate from last year's hamilton team, it's white IMO.
No Railman is not the only one. In my mind White is still a "wait and see", he wasn't a real upgrade over Kosto or Begin.
To be useful, he needs to play physical, but also add a goal from time to time.

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07-04-2010, 10:16 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Considering that we have space left for another 4 or 5 contracts and the fact that we need to sign at least 2 more d-men to play in Hamilton this year, I find it a little bit ridiculous that the Habs don't sign Fischer and give him a chance to prove himself. I know some folks prefer pick #50 in a weak draft but I don't.
We'll see how weak it will be. But if you would have seen him last year, you would have been really unimpressed for a senior.

And there's probably things we don't know.....like his own dedication to the game. I'm really eager to see what will be the next step for him. After August, we should hear how a team signed him, if not a NHL contract, clearly a AHL one. And see if he'll end up going that direction.

Honestly, I was also surprised to see the Habs not giving a contract to Philippe Paquet, a 7th rounder, that was bringing tons of toughness to a lineup. Though we are NOT talking about the same level of potential, he ended up signing....with an ECHL team. But in the end, I wouldn't be surprised if as far as their progression are concerned, if they didn't end up almost equal. Cleary Fischer's transition game was better. But Paquet was better defensively. I've never seen a tall guy like Fischer being so mishandled by 5'8'' and 5'10'' guys. Don't remember seeing that from Paquet. Yet, hockey sense is clearly to Fischer's advantage....but arsenal of shots goes, by far, to Paquet. Sakting wise, it's a no-brainer, Fischer by far.

To this day, I still believe Fischer's has a good potential. I'm predicting that as soon as we let him go officially, some team will catch him. Will it be NHL, AHL or even....ECHL? Probably not. There are teams out there with not a whole lot of depth on D that will find him interesting. Remains to be seen if he REALLY wants it. By his own admission.....there was some times when he didn't feel like trying.....Can't be a good sign. Prior to this season, he said that he had to go back to work. While Minny was a really bad place statswise this year, not sure he improved other areas in his game. I've seen stuff I didn't see from him in his 1st or 2nd year....and not positively.

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Old
07-04-2010, 10:29 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Considering that we have space left for another 4 or 5 contracts and the fact that we need to sign at least 2 more d-men to play in Hamilton this year, I find it a little bit ridiculous that the Habs don't sign Fischer and give him a chance to prove himself. I know some folks prefer pick #50 in a weak draft but I don't.
Seriously? He hasn't progressed in 4 years. Fischer lost his chance. They've been watching him that whole time and now realize they really screwed up that pick. If they thought there was any chance he could be a good NHLer they'd sign him.

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07-04-2010, 10:33 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Whether he he makes the roster or not, saying he wasn't impressive is distorting the truth. Everyone on this board loved what he brought. If you expected points from him, then you don't know what kind of player he is. Either way, i'll agree that it isn't a sure thing that he makes the team, but if anyone makes the bottom 2 lines as a graduate from last year's hamilton team, it's white IMO.
You're probably so used to awful 4th liners (Laraque anyone?) that you're easily impressed by one that is average at best, but that doesn't mean we all are. I didn't say he sucked, I said he wasn't impressive.

I don't expect White to produce much at the NHL level and I do believe he has the potential to be a solid 4th liner or even a decent 3rd liner. He was nothing special when he played for us last season though. He wasn't bad, but he wasn't good either. Basically, unless he is excellent during training camp, I don't see the point of playing him in the NHL right away when he could still learn quite a bit in the AHL and be a much better player for it.

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07-04-2010, 10:36 AM
  #38
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nice info/breakdown montreal, thanks

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07-04-2010, 11:06 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Here's the breakdown by age as of this month

....
Here's the breakdown by age as of June 30th 2010:

19- Dumont, Avtsin
20- Mayer, Palushaj, Schultz
21- Eller, Fortier, Pacioretty, Subban, Weber
22- Bishop, Carle, Conboy, Engqvist, Masse, Maxwell, Price, Trotter, White
23- Desharnais, Boyd, Nash, Pouliot, Pyatt, Russell
24- Desjardins, Klubertanz, St-Denis, Wyman
25- Gorges, Kostitsyn, Lapierre, O'Byrne
26- none
27- Pleks
28- Cammy, Moen
29- Auld
30- Gomez, Sanford
31- Gionta, Markov
33- Darche
35- Gill
36- Hammer, Spacek

Of all the players under 27 years of age, only Carey Price is currently projected to reach Group III UFA age younger than 27, in his case 26, i.e. midnight June 30th 2014. This is due to the rule that UFA status is reached at age 27 or seven accrued NHL seasons, whichever comes first. Unless Gabriel Dumont unexpectedly is on the NHL roster for 40 NHL games this year, no one else on the list will be subject to the 7 season exception.

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Originally Posted by kent_carlson View Post
No Railman is not the only one. In my mind White is still a "wait and see", he wasn't a real upgrade over Kosto or Begin.
To be useful, he needs to play physical, but also add a goal from time to time.
Also learn not to take himself out of position to make a hit, and to make the right play to get out of his own zone more often. Also his skating is not NHL average; he will needt o improve agility and play-reading to make up for it.

I think if White starts the year in Hamilton, and does well, he will get an injury callup chance eventually, and we can see if there has been any progress.

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07-04-2010, 01:18 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Railman View Post
You're probably so used to awful 4th liners (Laraque anyone?) that you're easily impressed by one that is average at best, but that doesn't mean we all are. I didn't say he sucked, I said he wasn't impressive.

I don't expect White to produce much at the NHL level and I do believe he has the potential to be a solid 4th liner or even a decent 3rd liner. He was nothing special when he played for us last season though. He wasn't bad, but he wasn't good either. Basically, unless he is excellent during training camp, I don't see the point of playing him in the NHL right away when he could still learn quite a bit in the AHL and be a much better player for it.
Habs fans were ready to believe Greg Stewart or Jonathan Ferland would be the next upgrades on the 4th line too.

The one thing I definitely like to see in regards to White is that he *HAS* very visibly improved during his time in the system. His skating and agility have improved noticeably. Still below average, yes. But it seems like maybe he is at least making up the perceived conditioning gap, if that's what it was, and he's learning his niche. I think he really does belong in the AHL again next year, but it's just always good to see progression. I'm hopeful that he'll be a solid bottom-6 forward for us at some point down the road. But the reality is, those players perhaps seldom stick around to do it in their drafting organization, and are perpetually replaceable on the UFA market. I like White a lot, but try not to have too many illusions.

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Old
07-04-2010, 02:54 PM
  #41
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If Markov is out at the start of the season, there's not much to worry about, but I do think if he was sent down he'd clear. Guess we'll see what happens.
Frankly, while I believe somewhat in his talent and on teams to be interested in picking him...., I mostly believe that the Habs will not risk losing him. That's more my point. You already know how sensitive the "local" factor is....can't imagine losing him for nothing to see him succeed then. Again, not my take here......just what I'm expecting how the organization will see this.

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Old
07-04-2010, 02:56 PM
  #42
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You think so? I would bet you a lot he wouldn't....but I lost my money with BG thinking Ferland had a greater value that he actually had....

Seriously, I don't think the Habs would take that chance. I know that if I would be a team, I'd give him a shot without hesitation.

Agree as far as both guys. Reason why Trotter might have the advantage over Ryan White as far as who's going to stick with the team.
Well I agree with BG as I tend to think more players will pass through the season opening waivers since most teams are set for the most part. Granted it's a case by case basis, but I usually tend to lean towards the side of them passing through waivers.

With Carle, he's missed so much time the last two years, going from playing some 50+ games the previous year to just over 30 games, so he's missed about an entire season of development. Plus a couple of those injuries were concussions, and he's never been anywhere near playing a full season over his 3 years as a pro. Granted he's put up good numbers when he's played, and we don't even know what sort of contract he'll get, as his current 850K surely would not help his cause but I don't see him getting anything close to that this summer as a guess.

If Markov is out at the start of the season, there's not much to worry about, but I do think if he was sent down he'd clear. Guess we'll see what happens.

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Does someone has a little info/scouting report about Nash?
I saw a little of him in the ECAC championship game this year, and I've seen him in the past at Cornell. He's got a good frame, moves well, heavy shot from the point, is a solid, hard working two way type. Could turn into a solid bottom pairing guy for the Dogs if not next season the the following perhaps.

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Joe Stejskal & Joonas Nattinen would be the only 2 guys I would sign as of right now. Johnson is a no and we'll see how Simila does in Finland this year.
Agreed, Stejskal and Nattinen should be signed, Johnson will need some kind of season for the Habs to even consider signing him as he's never been able to repeat the success he had in his freshman year. Was benched in the playoffs and frozen four, not good to see that from an upperclassman. Simila I only saw once and wasn't impressed, but we are thin on goalie prospects so that works in his favor, although it didn't help Missaien get a contract, so it will be interesting to see if Simila can get one.

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Seriously? He hasn't progressed in 4 years. Fischer lost his chance. They've been watching him that whole time and now realize they really screwed up that pick. If they thought there was any chance he could be a good NHLer they'd sign him.
He did progress just slowly, his junior year was his best until a lenghtly injury cost him the rest of the season. But he didn't rebound in his senior year and I assume that's what cost him, although as soon as he came out and said that he hasn't worked hard enough, I thought he was in trouble with management as this team clearly wants guys that work hard.

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07-04-2010, 02:57 PM
  #43
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Agreed, Stejskal and Nattinen should be signed, Johnson will need some kind of season for the Habs to even consider signing him as he's never been able to repeat the success he had in his freshman year. Was benched in the playoffs and frozen four, not good to see that from an upperclassman. Simila I only saw once and wasn't impressed, but we are thin on goalie prospects so that works in his favor, although it didn't help Missaien get a contract, so it will be interesting to see if Simila can get one.
I only happened to see Stejskal 2 times this year and was pretty low key. Didn't see neither the booming shot nor the incredible hits he was named for. Aren,t you a little bit concerned of his lack of progression statswise? How was his overall play if you saw him more than I did? Strange that to me, he seemed less a hard hitter and did in fact finished with less penalty minutes. Now, we probably should take it the good way since he had that trait of going out of position to go for the homerun hit.....still....

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07-04-2010, 03:05 PM
  #44
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Frankly, while I believe somewhat in his talent and on teams to be interested in picking him...., I mostly believe that the Habs will not risk losing him. That's more my point. You already know how sensitive the "local" factor is....can't imagine losing him for nothing to see him succeed then. Again, not my take here......just what I'm expecting how the organization will see this.
I believe in his talent as well but for me I think he'll pass based on injuries and the fact that he has to play in the NHL if he got picked, so with just 3 games under his belt I'd be surprised if a team took a chance on him unless they were already really thin on depth defensemen.

As for being local, that didn't stop them from waiving Beauchemin and not even signing Paquet. But we'll see how things go at camp for him, should be interesting for sure. As a Dogs fan I'd welcome him back for sure, as the D seems to be the main concern going forward and so far we lack vets, so getting him would be nice.

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I only happened to see Stejskal 2 times this year and was pretty low key. Didn't see neither the booming shot nor the incredible hits he was named for. Aren,t you a little bit concerned of his lack of progression statswise? How was his overall play if you saw him more than I did? Strange that to me, he seemed less a hard hitter and did in fact finished with less penalty minutes. Now, we probably should take it the good way since he had that trait of going out of position to go for the homerun hit.....still....
He was hitting less for sure but I think that's what they want from him, he was taking himself out of position too much. He still has the booming shot, but Dartmouth just stinks, imo he's their best player and one of the better defensemen in the ECAC. He plays a ton and in all situations, am I concerned for his progression, not too much but then again I would have bet money that Paquet would have been signed (same with his coach, who said Paquet had the best NHL upside of any of the NHL draft picks on his team) and I thought the Habs would sign Fischer to see what he can do, so I am a bit concerned on what the plans are for him next summer, as I really like him but I hope the Habs feel the same way.

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07-04-2010, 03:07 PM
  #45
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As for being local, that didn't stop them from waiving Beauchemin and not even signing Paquet. But we'll see how things go at camp for him, should be interesting for sure. As a Dogs fan I'd welcome him back for sure, as the D seems to be the main concern going forward and so far we lack vets, so getting him would be nice.
And that's EXACTLY why I think they won't make that move. They are still hearing it to this day as far as Beauchemin is concerned. What saves the organization for Paquet is that no journalists knows who the kid was 'cause he was picked so late AND was playing in the NCAA. I tell you, everytime I heard the supposed specialists saying how we picked so few local talent, I've never heard one guy mentioned Paquet, ever.

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07-17-2010, 01:41 PM
  #46
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As of today the Habs stand at 43 contracts, 45 once Price and Trotter are re-signed. We only have 12 D under contract and one on an AHL contract, so if Markov can't start the season, we wouldn't have enough D to fill the roster in Hamilton, someone would have to go on defense most likely Wyman. So I'm guessing another D or two will be signed at some point for the Dogs.

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07-17-2010, 03:53 PM
  #47
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As of today the Habs stand at 43 contracts, 45 once Price and Trotter are re-signed. We only have 12 D under contract and one on an AHL contract, so if Markov can't start the season, we wouldn't have enough D to fill the roster in Hamilton, someone would have to go on defense most likely Wyman. So I'm guessing another D or two will be signed at some point for the Dogs.

Yes, but they can be on AHL contracts, and not eat into the 50 contract cap.

Plus we have some "suspects" in our prospect base.

Dany Massé, 6 pts in 34 AHL games is going nowhere for an "offensive" guy who scored a ton of points as an overage junior and was signed to be the next Desharnais. FAIL.

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07-17-2010, 04:40 PM
  #48
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Certainly not before August 16th.
Has that ever happened? A team gets a compensatory pick for a player whom at the moment of exercising it, is ON THEIR ROSTER!!

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07-17-2010, 05:23 PM
  #49
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Carle has to stay on the big club as he's subject to waivers
They don't have to. Before the season starts, players can be sent to farm team without going through waivers.

The problem arises if they want to get him on the Habs roster once he's in Hamilton, he'll have to go through recall waivers.

Now if you are infering that the Habs would chose Carle over Subban because Subban is two-way without waivers and can be sent back and forth without problem, well then you gotta realize the Habs are gonna take talent first, even if it causes a minor problem of not being able to call-up Carle.

Because of the Markov injury? If Subban does better than Carle, than they might favor Weber, as he's two-way too. IF Carle has a great camp and outplays them both, than he'll have his place.

Carle being subject to waivers will be the last concern for the Habs. They'll ice the better team first.

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07-17-2010, 05:28 PM
  #50
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Yes, but they can be on AHL contracts, and not eat into the 50 contract cap.

Plus we have some "suspects" in our prospect base.

Dany Massé, 6 pts in 34 AHL games is going nowhere for an "offensive" guy who scored a ton of points as an overage junior and was signed to be the next Desharnais. FAIL.
Yeah he should be bought out for not dominating the AHL after missing half the season with an injury.

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