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Old
07-03-2010, 08:00 PM
  #26
Illmatic Stoic
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montreal will need to offer a second to new york for taking on Hamrlik

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07-03-2010, 08:03 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepin le bref View Post
An arrogant Islanders fan??? lol at your Subban ''joke''

Hamrlik is overpayed, agreed, but it's only for 1 year. He's a solid defensive defensman with decent size and a good first pass. He played 20+ minutes on a team that reached the Eastern conference finals, replacing Markov after he got injured and your telling us that he'd be unwanted with the Islanders???

Streit, Eaton, MacDonald, Hillen, Jurcina...Hamrlik easily cracks your top-4.
we had him and dont want him. Maybe if you montreal fans didnt keep trying to pawn your junk off on us we wouldnt be so peeved,
montreal fans are the Arrogant ones here, for thinking Islander fans need your help to get to the cap floor.

Sam Pollack isn't your GM anymore, the days of teams giving you Guy LaFleur's for a bag of peanuts are over. Get used to it. one of the Islanders proudest moments was when Bill Torrey told your GM to keep his 5 players, we were drafting Denis Potvin.......

its no fun not being able to fool fans just because you're the almighty canadiens anymore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepin le bref View Post
Does it matter that much that he isn't worth 5.5? Especaily for a team with a ton of cap space like the Islanders?
further evidence of your Arrogance

"Does it even matter that hes overpaid, after all its only the Islanders"

we hear ya...... enjoy paying Hamerlik


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Old
07-03-2010, 08:04 PM
  #28
Illmatic Stoic
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Originally Posted by Pepin le bref View Post
Does it matter that much that he isn't worth 5.5? Especaily for a team with a ton of cap space like the Islanders?

Daniel Brière is overpaid. Did that make him a less effective player in the playoffs? A player can be overpaiyed but still useful.
Briere is not overplayed. Player's that almost break records set by Gretzky and lead the playoffs in scoring for a 6.5 million cap hit is not overpayed.

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07-03-2010, 08:09 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
we had him and dont want him. Maybe if you montreal fans didnt keep trying to pawn your junk off on us we wouldnt be so peeved,
montreal fans are the Arrogant ones here, for thinking Islander fans need your help to get to the cap floor.

Sam Pollack isn't your GM anymore, the days of teams giving you Guy LaFleur's for a bag of peanuts are over. Get used to it. one of the Islanders proudest moments was when Bill Torrey told your GM to keep his 5 players, we were drafting Denis Potvin.......

its no fun not being able to fool fans just because you're the almighty canadiens anymore
I wonder how many posters were alive during that era... don't know why so many fans refer to the past when there's a good chance they weren't even watching hockey then. Plus the number of teams in the league now >>>>> then as well as talent now >>>> then.

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07-03-2010, 08:22 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by denkiteki View Post
I wonder how many posters were alive during that era... don't know why so many fans refer to the past when there's a good chance they weren't even watching hockey then. Plus the number of teams in the league now >>>>> then as well as talent now >>>> then.
you're absolutely right of course, but as so many in the thread said expecting the Isles to give up quality assets for the overpaid Hamrlik was ridiculous and then acting like whats the big deal if hes overpaid its only the Isles, I had to let him know, that yes some of us do know how the canadiens won all those cups.

the Knowledgeable Hab fan would love to be rid of Hamrlik

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07-03-2010, 08:23 PM
  #31
Pepin le bref
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Originally Posted by Canuckee View Post
Briere is not overplayed. Player's that almost break records set by Gretzky and lead the playoffs in scoring for a 6.5 million cap hit is not overpayed.

Brière was considered overpayed the past 2-3 seasons playing as a 3rd line center behind Richards and Carter or playing out of position on the wing. Ask Philly fans or take a look at the threads on this forum 8 months ago...

If he can keep it up during the regular season next year then yes, he's worth 6.5.

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07-03-2010, 08:29 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
you're absolutely right of course, but as so many in the thread said expecting the Isles to give up quality assets for the overpaid Hamrlik was ridiculous and then acting like whats the big deal if hes overpaid its only the Isles, I had to let him know, that yes some of us do know how the canadiens won all those cups

If a 3rd rounder is a quality asset to you then I don't know what to say other than probabilities show that 3rd rounders have less than 10% to pan out as an full time NHL'ers.

Take a look on www.hockeydb.com,

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07-03-2010, 08:30 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Pepin le bref View Post
Brière was considered overpayed the past 2-3 seasons playing as a 3rd line center behind Richards and Carter or playing out of position on the wing. Ask Philly fans or take a look at the threads on this forum 8 months ago...

If he can keep it up during the regular season next year then yes, he's worth 6.5.
Rather he earns his contract or is overpaid doesn't matter does it? Point is he's not the one being traded. His performance in the playoff does not directly mean anything for anyone on the Canadians. It does NOT mean all overpaid Canadians will suddenly earn their contract nor the Canadians winning the cup (if anything it means the opposite).

If you're implying 1 overpaid player earning his contract in the playoff entitles all overpaid players being worthwhile, why don't you trade Gill for Redden since he's known to be overpaid? Seriously overpaid = bad contract = unlikely any team will give assets for that player unless they want that player badly (which i doubt the Islanders have any interest since, like i said, they could have gotten Souray for free on waivers). Face facts, Souray has negative value and Hamrlik likely also has negative value (although still a better deal). The only way he gets asset back is if he's dealt at the trade deadline (at least they type of assets MTL fans are looking for).

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07-03-2010, 08:32 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Pepin le bref View Post
If a 3rd rounder is a quality asset to you then I don't know what to say other than probabilities show that 3rd rounders have less than 10% to pan out as an full time NHL'ers.

Take a look on www.hockeydb.com,
The chance is still of high value. Look at all the players dealt at the deadline for 2nd/3rd round picks. Even at 10%, there's also a chance that player turns out to be something special and it all depends on your scouting staff. Its like people buying lottery ticket... what are the chance of actually winning?

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07-03-2010, 08:33 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Zeroknowledge View Post
Hamrlik will get shipped to a contender with cap space at trade deadline. That is assuming he does get traded.
A real contender would not have Hamrlik in its lineup.

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07-03-2010, 08:42 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by denkiteki View Post
Rather he earns his contract or is overpaid doesn't matter does it? Point is he's not the one being traded. His performance in the playoff does not directly mean anything for anyone on the Canadians. It does NOT mean all overpaid Canadians will suddenly earn their contract nor the Canadians winning the cup (if anything it means the opposite).

If you're implying 1 overpaid player earning his contract in the playoff entitles all overpaid players being worthwhile, why don't you trade Gill for Redden since he's known to be overpaid? Seriously overpaid = bad contract = unlikely any team will give assets for that player unless they want that player badly (which i doubt the Islanders have any interest since, like i said, they could have gotten Souray for free on waivers). Face facts, Souray has negative value and Hamrlik likely also has negative value (although still a better deal). The only way he gets asset back is if he's dealt at the trade deadline (at least they type of assets MTL fans are looking for).
Fair enough

However, I do think Hamrlik is still an effective NHL (overpayed or not) and would be able to help the Islanders short term as a top-4 defensmen.

And quite frankly, I don't think Habs management is desperate to move him. The team is set for next year without cap problems and Hammer is a good fit to pair up with a guy like Subban or another young d-men, he can play 20+ minutes and is solid defensively.

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07-03-2010, 08:44 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by clyankees47 View Post
A real contender would not have Hamrlik in its lineup.
Yeah no playoff team wants a veteran that can play 25 mins a game in all situations.

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07-03-2010, 08:52 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Yeah no playoff team wants a veteran that can play 25 mins a game in all situations.
If you're going to exaggerate, at least do it reasonably. Hamrlik averaged 20 minutes/game this playoffs.

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07-03-2010, 08:53 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by denkiteki View Post
The chance is still of high value. Look at all the players dealt at the deadline for 2nd/3rd round picks. Even at 10%, there's also a chance that player turns out to be something special and it all depends on your scouting staff. Its like people buying lottery ticket... what are the chance of actually winning?

At this point, it's all about team building philosophy. Would you rather roll the dice and have 10% chances of landing an NHL regular or would you rather acquire an established player? I don't think their is a good or bad anwser. Personnally, I think a mix of both is the best way to go.

The Detroit Red Wings surely showed that having a load of high draft picks isn't a necessity in order to be competitive. Then again, Chicago also showed that stacking up draft picks can be beneficial...as I said, their isn't a good or bad anwser.

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07-03-2010, 08:54 PM
  #40
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Yeah no playoff team wants a veteran that can play 25 mins a game in all situations.
But he's paid 5.5M so that nulify everything right?

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07-03-2010, 08:55 PM
  #41
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Agreed that the Islanders need to get something else other than just a year of Hamrlik. You people don't seem to comprehend that Hamrlik will have more value around the trade deadline.

The opening of capspace isn't the attractive part for Montréal, it's to get tougher on the back end.

Montréal can take a crack at Bieksa next off-season when Hamrlik, Gill and potentially Markov, Gorges and O'bryne are let go/traded.

Islanders have forward and defensive prospect from not doing so well the past couple of years.

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07-03-2010, 08:55 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Pepin le bref View Post
Fair enough

However, I do think Hamrlik is still an effective NHL (overpayed or not) and would be able to help the Islanders short term as a top-4 defensmen.

And quite frankly, I don't think Habs management is desperate to move him. The team is set for next year without cap problems and Hammer is a good fit to pair up with a guy like Subban or another young d-men, he can play 20+ minutes and is solid defensively.
I agree he's an upgrade over what the Islanders have in their top 4 but why would the Islanders give up the assets to obtain him when they could use the assets to get a younger + cheaper option in Bieksa (as thats pretty much the trade). Bieksa not only upgrades them now but also gives them an option in the future (if the choice to resign him).

You're right that the Habs don't need to move him but fans are trying to dump him for assets and honestly to try to deal an overpaid player for assets is a tough sell yet every Hab fan has been trying to dump him non-stop to NYI or CBJ for way more than he's worth.

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07-03-2010, 09:03 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by clyankees47 View Post
If you're going to exaggerate, at least do it reasonably. Hamrlik averaged 20 minutes/game this playoffs.
He averaged more before Martin decided Gill/Gorges were the shutdown pairing. Over 23 mins in the regular season.

Regardless, at the deadline he would be a very hot commodity for a playoff team.

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07-03-2010, 09:07 PM
  #44
denkiteki
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
He averaged more before Martin decided Gill/Gorges were the shutdown pairing. Over 23 mins in the regular season.

Regardless, at the deadline he would be a very hot commodity for a playoff team.
That depends on his play during the season. And based on deadline deals this past year, he might end up going for a 2nd round pick or a 2nd round pick + prospect. Not likely he will fetch more and if the Habs have him, they better not need to trade him because it would mean they are out of the hunt.

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07-03-2010, 10:40 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Pepin le bref View Post
Fair enough

However, I do think Hamrlik is still an effective NHL (overpayed or not) and would be able to help the Islanders short term as a top-4 defensmen.

And quite frankly, I don't think Habs management is desperate to move him. The team is set for next year without cap problems and Hammer is a good fit to pair up with a guy like Subban or another young d-men, he can play 20+ minutes and is solid defensively.
good then you keep him, because the Islanders dont want to help the canadiens out without getting fair value back, at his salary we dont want him.

the Canadiens can trade Subban or Markov, since you seem to think Hamrlik plays so well and has such great value. When you find out no one wants his contract and realize that it takes away from his value and are willing to view reality then call us......

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07-03-2010, 10:44 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Agreed that the Islanders need to get something else other than just a year of Hamrlik. You people don't seem to comprehend that Hamrlik will have more value around the trade deadline.

The opening of capspace isn't the attractive part for Montréal, it's to get tougher on the back end.

Montréal can take a crack at Bieksa next off-season when Hamrlik, Gill and potentially Markov, Gorges and O'bryne are let go/traded.

Islanders have forward and defensive prospect from not doing so well the past couple of years.
then hold on to him and trade him at the deadline.....simple, since cap space isnt an issue as you say

Islander fans werent born yesterday and We know a Bald faced lie when we're told one. just keep him it solves all you problems. if we wanted a defenseman that expensive we could have had Souray for nothing


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07-03-2010, 11:04 PM
  #47
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Are hab fans seriously arguing that hamrlik is a player anyone would want at that cap hit?
Seriously, take off your homer glasses and think about it. Maybe the rangers will consider a redden+4th rounder for hamrlik?

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07-03-2010, 11:17 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Nine to Five View Post
Are hab fans seriously arguing that hamrlik is a player anyone would want at that cap hit?
Seriously, take off your homer glasses and think about it. Maybe the rangers will consider a redden+4th rounder for hamrlik?
seriously they do..... they all think they're Sam Pollack about to trade for Guy Lafleur for a bag of popcorn again

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07-03-2010, 11:44 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
We do not need help to get to the cap floor,

we also are not Santa Claus, so unless you would like to send Subban along to compensate the Isles for taking on your unwanted and overpaid Hamrlik, we respectfully decline
That's not fair... we should give you Subban, Price, Eller and our next 5 first round picks along with Hamrlik. You isles fans are all annoyed with the proposals for you guys to reach the cap floor but it's a reality. I hope that you don't reach it and have to sign a bunch of ****** contracts to make up for it right before the season starts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine to Five View Post
Are hab fans seriously arguing that hamrlik is a player anyone would want at that cap hit?
Seriously, take off your homer glasses and think about it. Maybe the rangers will consider a redden+4th rounder for hamrlik?
Hamrlik has one season left on his contract and though he's definitely not worth the 5.5M, he's still a quality veteran, which is good on a young team. For Montreal to trade him they'd definitely have to sweeten the pot but if you think it's completely ludicrous to take on the salary of a player who can play 25 minutes a night and still contribute both offensively and defensively then you must not understand professional hockey in the least.

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07-04-2010, 12:42 AM
  #50
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That's not fair... we should give you Subban, Price, Eller and our next 5 first round picks along with Hamrlik. You isles fans are all annoyed with the proposals for you guys to reach the cap floor but it's a reality. I hope that you don't reach it and have to sign a bunch of ****** contracts to make up for it right before the season starts.




Hamrlik has one season left on his contract and though he's definitely not worth the 5.5M, he's still a quality veteran, which is good on a young team. For Montreal to trade him they'd definitely have to sweeten the pot but if you think it's completely ludicrous to take on the salary of a player who can play 25 minutes a night and still contribute both offensively and defensively then you must not understand professional hockey in the least.
thats fine then, you keep him. and we know its a reality, but there are 29 other teams in the NHL, allow us our right to choose the best deal for us, not the best deal for the Canadiens, We could sign Frolov tomorrow and be at the salary cap floor, Why should we take Hamrlik off your hands so that the Canadiens can sign him or any other player we might desire?

The Canadiens are at just under 53 Million and still have to sign Price and at least one defender so cap space is a big issue for your team regardless of what you may say to the contrary. There are few teams with the ability and desire to take on a $5.5M cap hit, therefore in order to get us to do you that favor we must be sufficiently compensated to our satisfaction. if you choose not to do so that is perfectly fine.

The Islanders have their own needs as a team, why should we use one of our assets (cap space) to help you when there are other teams offering us more for less? Its quite obvious from your bolded response that you dont like that we are able to see through your veiled attempt to take advantage of us, but like you and all other fans of their respective teams, we too want to do what is best for our squad.

This is not Sam Pollack taking advantage of fools any longer, We are no longer cowed by the almighty Habs, we now expect equal value. What we are annoyed at is that you seem to think you are helping us by relieving you of your unwanted obligations, and thinking we are ignorant of this.

its not like Les Habitants are the only team offering to "help us" in this way


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