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Would you do Theo + for Gagné & Pitkanen?

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Old
05-24-2004, 10:48 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
Why are you always on habs message board with the no.1 priority of bashing Theodore??

Roy & Hasek are top 5 goalie ever in 100 years. Maybe he is not Roy or Hasek but he's sure the next best thing. Yeah he is a superstar goalie. And he is the reason why our future looks good while Toronto is going right where they belongs, in the bottom of NorthEast division. And that start with next year when we will beat your team regularly.
I hope there are more realistic Hab fans out there.

Theodore is no superstar goalie... is he a great young goalie in the NHL? Yes.

Is he a superstar? No.

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05-24-2004, 10:56 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by HF-Addict
I strongly disagree.

Where are the habs now?? Playing golf after a 2nd round exit!!! Where are the Flyers with Esche (and an injured defence), playing golf after a 3nd round exit!!!You can't just make up arguments like that...

"Théo didn't do too bad" Why would anyone pay a great price for a goalie that wasn't stellar paid more than 5 millions with the new CBA coming?

Théo is a streaky goalie, I would jump on a deal for Pitkanen and then grabs a goalie on the market. BUT, I would like to see a bit more of Garon before doing that deal, cause even if Théo isn't stellar, if Garon chokes, we could be in big troubles.

What did we get for Patrick Roy....
What Buffalo got for Hasek: VYACHESLAV KOZLOV (40-50 points) and a 1st round (from Detroit) *pretty low for the great Hasek, don't you think?*

José isn't in the same league as Hasek, what do you expect to get?
Hasek was going to retire. Theodore have 10 great seasons in front of him.
Name a goalie that can substain the pressure of playing in MTL & at the same time having terrible problems with near family (that's temporary) while doing a great job
(.926 7 games before season finnish)???

Do you remember that our team was one of the worst in NHL for the last 5 years?
Now we have a competitive team, Theo will shine. Add the fact that pads will be 10'' instead of 12'' next year...It will help him, he have fastest lateral movement in the world. Luongo and other big goalies will suffer...And the family problems will quickly go away..

By the way, check those stats...

Season Team GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW GT Shots Pct
1991-1992 Red Wings 7 0 2 2 -2 2 0 0 0 0 9 0
1992-1993 Red Wings 17 4 1 5 -1 14 0 0 0 0 26 15.4
1993-1994 Red Wings 77 34 39 73 27 50 8 2 6 0 202 16.8
1994-1995 Red Wings 46 13 20 33 12 45 5 0 3 0 97 13.4
1995-1996 Red Wings 82 36 37 73 33 70 9 0 7 0 237 15.2
1996-1997 Red Wings 75 23 22 45 21 46 3 0 6 0 211 10.9
1997-1998 Red Wings 80 25 27 52 14 46 6 0 1 0 221 11.3
1998-1999 Red Wings 79 29 29 58 10 45 6 1 4 2 209 13.9
1999-2000 Red Wings 72 18 18 36 11 28 4 0 3 0 165 10.9
2000-2001 Red Wings 72 20 18 38 9 30 4 0 5 1 187 10.7
2001-2002 Sabres 38 9 13 22 0 16 3 0 1 1 68 13.2
2002-2003 Thrashers 79 21 49 70 -10 66 9 1 2 0 185 11.4
2003-2004 Thrashers 76 20 32 52 -12 74 6 0 1 0 191 10.5

NHL Totals 800 252 307 559 112 532 63 4 39 4 2,008 12.5

We talk about 8 X 20 goals seasons. Not too bad return of Hasek.
It's a player who can be compared to Gagne.
And Pitkanen was a 1st rounder right?

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05-24-2004, 11:02 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1

We talk about 8 X 20 goals seasons. Not too bad return of Hasek.
It's a player who can be compared to Gagne.
And Pitkanen is a 1st rounder right?
Jason Ward is a 1st round too no a 1st round doesn't equal Pitkanen, and Hasek isn't in the same category as Théodore.

*Hasek stats*

00/01 SABRES 67 37 24 4 11 2.10 .921
01/02 RED WINGS 65 41 15 8 5 2.16 .915

Not too shabby, isn't it. And he won the Stanley Cup in Detroit...He wasn't washed up after all...

If you still think we shouldn't trade Théo for Gagné and Pitkanen, well, I'm speechless. Théo for Pitkanen, however would be a mistake if we don,t know before what Garon is able to do...and find a legit back-up for Garon.

*/Edit*

twist it like you want, but he still got only 3 seasons above the 50's points, so I was right with a 40-50 points player...


Last edited by HF-Addict: 05-24-2004 at 11:09 PM.
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05-24-2004, 11:06 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
Hasek was going to retire. Theodore have 10 great seasons in front of him.
Name a goalie that can substain the pressure of playing in MTL & at the same time having terrible problems with near family (that's temporary) while doing a great job
(.926 7 games before season finnish)???

Do you remember that our team was one of the worst in NHL for the last 5 years?
Now we have a competitive team, Theo will shine. Add the fact that pads will be 10'' instead of 12'' next year...It will help him, he have fastest lateral movement in the world. Luongo and other big goalies will suffer...And the family problems will quickly go away..

By the way, check those stats...

Season Team GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW GT Shots Pct
1991-1992 Red Wings 7 0 2 2 -2 2 0 0 0 0 9 0
1992-1993 Red Wings 17 4 1 5 -1 14 0 0 0 0 26 15.4
1993-1994 Red Wings 77 34 39 73 27 50 8 2 6 0 202 16.8
1994-1995 Red Wings 46 13 20 33 12 45 5 0 3 0 97 13.4
1995-1996 Red Wings 82 36 37 73 33 70 9 0 7 0 237 15.2
1996-1997 Red Wings 75 23 22 45 21 46 3 0 6 0 211 10.9
1997-1998 Red Wings 80 25 27 52 14 46 6 0 1 0 221 11.3
1998-1999 Red Wings 79 29 29 58 10 45 6 1 4 2 209 13.9
1999-2000 Red Wings 72 18 18 36 11 28 4 0 3 0 165 10.9
2000-2001 Red Wings 72 20 18 38 9 30 4 0 5 1 187 10.7
2001-2002 Sabres 38 9 13 22 0 16 3 0 1 1 68 13.2
2002-2003 Thrashers 79 21 49 70 -10 66 9 1 2 0 185 11.4
2003-2004 Thrashers 76 20 32 52 -12 74 6 0 1 0 191 10.5

NHL Totals 800 252 307 559 112 532 63 4 39 4 2,008 12.5

We talk about 8 X 20 goals seasons. Not too bad return of Hasek.
It's a player who can be compared to Gagne.
And Pitkanen was a 1st rounder right?
Wow.

Kozlov was 29 years old, putting up 35-40 points in Detroit in his last 2 seasons... Gagne is 24 years old and is one of the best young two-way forwards in the NHL. There's no comparison there.

As for the Pitkanen/1st rounder comparison... that 1st rounder was the 30th pick in the 2002 draft. Joni Pitkanen is arguably the best young defenseman in the world. He has the potential to be one of the greatest defensemen over the next 15 years.

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05-24-2004, 11:16 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Wow.

Kozlov was 29 years old, putting up 35-40 points in Detroit in his last 2 seasons... Gagne is 24 years old and is one of the best young two-way forwards in the NHL. There's no comparison there.

As for the Pitkanen/1st rounder comparison... that 1st rounder was the 30th pick in the 2002 draft. Joni Pitkanen is arguably the best young defenseman in the world. He has the potential to be one of the greatest defensemen over the next 15 years.
The reason why Koslov had only 35-40 pts is because Bowman prefered to use his veterans like Yzerman, Shanahan & other superstars...I'm sure it's because of ice-time + powerplay.

Now look at that...

2002-2003 Flyers 46 9 18 27 20 16 1 1 3 1 115 7.8
2003-2004 Flyers 80 24 21 45 12 29 6 0 6 2 211 11.4

2 bad seasons.

2002-2003 Thrashers 79 21 49 70 -10 66 9 1 2 0 185 11.4
2003-2004 Thrashers 76 20 32 52 -12 74 6 0 1 0 191 10.5

2 good seasons that helped Atlanta emerge as a competive team.

Now i'm not saying i prefer Koslov over Gagne. I'm just saying it's comparable stuff.

You also have to consider that Hasek was making 9 millions per season vs 5.5 for Theodore. It's a damn big salary!

And where is Hasek now? He retired. He played 2 seasons. He was good but even Osgood won the cup with Detroit. That say a lot.

And now look at Theo's stats...

2000-01 Montreal Canadiens NHL 59 2.57 20 29 5 1546 0.909 - - - -
2001-02 Montreal Canadiens NHL 67 2.11 30 24 10 1972 0.931 12 0 0 0
2002-03 Montreal Canadiens NHL 57 2.90 20 31 6 1632 0.908 - - - -
2003-04 Montreal Canadiens NHL 67 2.27 33 28 5 1710 0.919
2003-04 Montreal Canadiens NHL 11 2.39 4 7 0 333 0.919 Playoffs

You can see the worst he could do is .908.
Brodeur did that this year.
And those 4 seasons are with a poor team in front of him with
players like Dykhuis, Brisebois taking the rebounds...


Last edited by EaGLE1: 05-24-2004 at 11:23 PM.
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05-25-2004, 06:29 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1

2002-2003 Flyers 46 9 18 27 20 16 1 1 3 1 115 7.8
2003-2004 Flyers 80 24 21 45 12 29 6 0 6 2 211 11.4

2 bad seasons.

2002-2003 Thrashers 79 21 49 70 -10 66 9 1 2 0 185 11.4
2003-2004 Thrashers 76 20 32 52 -12 74 6 0 1 0 191 10.5

2 good seasons that helped Atlanta emerge as a competive team.

Now i'm not saying i prefer Koslov over Gagne. I'm just saying it's comparable stuff.
There is something you don't get, the last two seasons before Koslov was traded, look at his stats, that's what Leafaolix was saying:

1999/00 Detroit Red Wings 72 18 18 36 28 11 4 0 3 0 165 10.91
2000/01 Detroit Red Wings 72 20 18 38 30 9 4 0 5 1 187 10.70

You can imagine his trade value...It wasn,t a 70 point player that the Red Wings traded. It was a 40 points player soon to be UFA, not like Gagné who is still young...

And Gagné is much more than points, that's y he was choosen by Canada...

Quote:
You also have to consider that Hasek was making 9 millions per season vs 5.5 for Theodore. It's a damn big salary!
Detroit was able to pay him that salary, like they proved again this year...wasn't the same situation at all, a new CBA wasn't coming...


Quote:
And where is Hasek now? He retired. He played 2 seasons. He was good but even Osgood won the cup with Detroit. That say a lot.
If you tried to prove us that goalie aren't that important to win the Stanley Cup, well you just made a solid point. Looks like we could win without Théo after all, no?

Quote:
And now look at Theo's stats...

2000-01 Montreal Canadiens NHL 59 2.57 20 29 5 1546 0.909 - - - -
2001-02 Montreal Canadiens NHL 67 2.11 30 24 10 1972 0.931 12 0 0 0
2002-03 Montreal Canadiens NHL 57 2.90 20 31 6 1632 0.908 - - - -
2003-04 Montreal Canadiens NHL 67 2.27 33 28 5 1710 0.919
2003-04 Montreal Canadiens NHL 11 2.39 4 7 0 333 0.919 Playoffs

You can see the worst he could do is .908.
Brodeur did that this year.
And those 4 seasons are with a poor team in front of him with
players like Dykhuis, Brisebois taking the rebounds...
You should stop to compare Théo and Hasek, they just aren't in the same class...BTW: Just look the wins difference between the two (with the Sabres and with the Wings)

Théo being the goalie that allows most 4 goals ++ during the season.

Add that stats are not everything, looking at those stats, we could think Théo had a nice play-off run, which is false.

____

Anyway, what don't you get?! Théo for Pitkanen + Gagné would be a steal for everything said above. A superstar goalie in Hasek couldn't even get something that good. Neither Roy.


Last edited by HF-Addict: 05-25-2004 at 06:36 AM.
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05-25-2004, 08:31 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awesome`
What's the point of saying that? He brought a valid point: from a Flyers point of view, Pitkanen is worth more than Théodore. All you did is try to insult him.

If I look at it from a Flyers standpoint, here's what I see:

Future lockout = Leclair not coming back. Recch and Amonte might not be back. Malakhov and Desjardins might not be back. Roenick might not be back. = No chance at winning a cup.

The only point in trading for Théodore while giving two youngster is that you feel that Théodore will bring you the cup. That just won't happen.


Flyers fans are entitled to their opinions but I really didn't see too much of Pitkanen during the playoffs that made me stand up and really take notice. Actually he seemed really soft in his own end and timid with the puck. Sounds like Ron Hainsey.

Yes, he is a young guy with lots of potential and his chances for improvement are well within grasp but from what I seen.......



Let the Flyers go without another Top Notch Goaltender.
Same thing every year.

Just goes to show us that History does indeed repeat itself.




Fedotenko for Pitkanen. Wasn't that how the deal turned out?

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05-25-2004, 08:35 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidboot
Let the Flyers go without another Top Notch Goaltender.
Same thing every year.
How did your top-notch goalie do against Tampa ???

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05-25-2004, 08:45 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
How did your top-notch goalie do against Tampa ???



Are you talking about our Goaltender who has a Vezina and Hart Trophy to his credit? He got beat by Tampa just like your Goaltender did. Biggest difference is Theodore has proven how good a goaltender he is.

Goaltending is the most important position in the game.




Why do you think that Clarke keeps dealing for a Goaltender? Its easier said than done to acquire a Top Notch Goaltender.

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05-25-2004, 08:48 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidboot
Are you talking about our Goaltender who has a Vezina and Hart Trophy to his credit? He got beat by Tampa just like your Goaltender did. Biggest difference is Theodore has proven how good a goaltender he is.

Goaltending is the most important position in the game.

Why do you think that Clarke keeps dealing for a Goaltender? Its easier said than done to acquire a Top Notch Goaltender.
I'm not denying that Theodore is a good goalie, but Esche is a very good goaltender as well and played excellent in the playoffs. The Flyers goaltending search is over.

The Habs do not have enough to offer to get Gagne & Pitkanen.

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05-25-2004, 08:57 AM
  #61
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I guess we'll have to wait and see if the Flyers quest for a Goaltender is over.
Who knows, Esche could turn out to be just another on the list of goaltenders who have a good playoff and then return to "normal" next season. Look no further than Giguere.

Then what.......Burke? Didn't Clarke trade for him because of the uncertainty in net?

Philly hasn't changed their thinking on Goaltenders. Burke, Cechmanek, Hackett etc, etc, etc....

For Philadelphia I really hope that Esche is the cure to the problem but I'd be wary.




I KNOW our Goaltending situation is in good hands.

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05-25-2004, 09:05 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidboot
I guess we'll have to wait and see if the Flyers quest for a Goaltender is over.
Who knows, Esche could turn out to be just another on the list of goaltenders who have a good playoff and then return to "normal" next season. Look no further than Giguere.

Then what.......Burke? Didn't Clarke trade for him because of the uncertainty in net?

Philly hasn't changed their thinking on Goaltenders. Burke, Cechmanek, Hackett etc, etc, etc....

For Philadelphia I really hope that Esche is the cure to the problem but I'd be wary.

I KNOW our Goaltending situation is in good hands.
Burke was traded for because it was February and Esche was hurt and going to miss a month of hockey, and Hackett had retired due to Vertigo. Burke was brought in as insurance. We had no other NHL proven goaltenders. Also the deal wasn't just for Burke, we also picked up ben Eager and Branko Radivojevic.

Theodore did the same thing you're accusing Giguere of doing:

Theo
01-02 - 30-24-10 2.11gaa .931 sv% 7so
02-03 - 20-31-6 2.90gaa .908 sv% 2so
03-04 - 33-28-5 2.27gaa .919 sv% 6so

Giguere and other get the benefit of the doubt until that have two bad years in a row.

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05-25-2004, 09:16 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan
Burke was traded for because it was February and Esche was hurt and going to miss a month of hockey, and Hackett had retired due to Vertigo. Burke was brought in as insurance. We had no other NHL proven goaltenders. Also the deal wasn't just for Burke, we also picked up ben Eager and Branko Radivojevic.

Theodore did the same thing you're accusing Giguere of doing:

Theo
01-02 - 30-24-10 2.11gaa .931 sv% 7so
02-03 - 20-31-6 2.90gaa .908 sv% 2so
03-04 - 33-28-5 2.27gaa .919 sv% 6so

Giguere and other get the benefit of the doubt until that have two bad years in a row.



I don't see any Hart or Vezina Trophy on Giguere's resume.
I know he has a Conn Smythe. (or does he?)


I don't see anything like that on Esche's resume....period.


History proves it all to me when it comes to the Flyers and Goaltenders.


And I don't think that Clarke traded for Burke to be his Backup. Not IMO. He was there to be #1 and he failed to take the job with sub-performances giving the job to Esche.

And I mentioned Hackett, Cechmanek since they were supposed to be "da man" and ended up doing diddly. Got as far as Esche did.


I really hope from a Flyers standpoint that Esche is the cure.
I'd have reservations though.

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05-25-2004, 09:34 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidboot
I don't see any Hart or Vezina Trophy on Giguere's resume.
I know he has a Conn Smythe. (or does he?)

I don't see anything like that on Esche's resume....period.

History proves it all to me when it comes to the Flyers and Goaltenders.

And I don't think that Clarke traded for Burke to be his Backup. Not IMO. He was there to be #1 and he failed to take the job with sub-performances giving the job to Esche.

And I mentioned Hackett, Cechmanek since they were supposed to be "da man" and ended up doing diddly. Got as far as Esche did.

I really hope from a Flyers standpoint that Esche is the cure.
I'd have reservations though.
#1. Giguere won a Conn Smythe.

#2. History means squat. If history meant something the Habs would still be a dominant team in the NHL. What matters is current players and their abilities.

#3. You can believe whatever you'd like, but Clarke, Hitchcock and everyone on the planet other than Barry Melrose understood that Burke was coming in to play while Esche was hurt and then to take the back-up role.

#4. Cechmanek never got as far as Esche.

#5. From the start of the season Hitchcock spoke of Esche as being the goalie he expected to start come playoff time.




Goaltending may be the most important position in hockey, but the toughest thing to find is a true stud #1 defenseman that can play 24-27 minutes a night.

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05-25-2004, 10:11 AM
  #65
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Short version, no.

Long version, not in a million years.

Pitkanen and Gagne represent the cornerstones of the franchise at forward and defense. Considering this was Pitkanen's first year pro, he was absolutely amazing. He ran out of gas by the year's end (playing 40 more games than you are used too can do that), but he showed more than enough to justify the Flyer's faith in him being a #1 d-man for years to come. Gagne is one of the best young 2-way players in the league. He has Modano-esque upside (for those that scoff, note that Gagne is far more advanced of a player than Mike was at the same age).

While Theodore is an excellent player, you don't give up two cornerstones for one. No matter what the position. While the Flyers would be set in net, they would be starting over at forward AND defense.

I am not sold on Esche, but Theodore at the expense of both Pitkanen and Gagne hurts the team more than it helps it. We need to find a top-notch goalie (or hope Esche develops into one) to give Gagne and Pitkanen a chance to win it all.

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05-25-2004, 02:30 PM
  #66
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Ottawa...amazing team..nothing
Philly..Amazing team...nothing
Boston..2 yrs ago..#1 in the East..Dafoe..nothing!
Vancouver..great team...nothing..not only this year but all!


Cups:
New Jersey Devils-BRODEUR
Detroit Red Wings-Hasek
Colorado Avalanche-Roy
Tampa or Calgary? -Khabi-Kiprusoff

Teams in the finals:
Anaheim Mighty Ducks-Giguere..

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05-25-2004, 02:33 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
Ottawa...amazing team..nothing
Philly..Amazing team...nothing
Boston..2 yrs ago..#1 in the East..Dafoe..nothing!
Vancouver..great team...nothing..not only this year but all!


Cups:
New Jersey Devils-BRODEUR
Detroit Red Wings-Hasek
Colorado Avalanche-Roy
Tampa or Calgary? -Khabi-Kiprusoff

Teams in the finals:
Anaheim Mighty Ducks-Giguere..
You forgot Osgood and an old Mike Vernon.

So, it was Esche's fault the Flyers only scored 1 goal in the deciding game 7 ???

Apparently you missed the two round where he OUTPLAYED Brodeur and Belfour.

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05-25-2004, 02:36 PM
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no but my point is you need a great goalie to win and don't tell me Esche hasn't looked shaky in the playoffs especially a couple of weak goals against Tampa.

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05-25-2004, 02:38 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
no but my point is you need a great goalie to win and don't tell me Esche hasn't looked shaky in the playoffs especially a couple of weak goals against Tampa.

I'm thinking that Esche won 3 games vs. Tampa, something Theodore failed to do.


I like how Hab fans like to blame Jose Theodore for every playoff loss, but when they're offering him up in trades, he is the absolute different between being a contender and a pretender. Goaltending was the reason we lost to Tampa Bay? Whoever said that obviously hasn't been watching hockey.

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05-25-2004, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komisarek8
no but my point is you need a great goalie to win and don't tell me Esche hasn't looked shaky in the playoffs especially a couple of weak goals against Tampa.
Esche played one bad game out of 18 (game against Tampa). Most goalies have a bad game once in a while, Khabibulin had one in game 2 against Philly, Belfour in game 5 against Philly.

You don't forget the OT goal that Therodore gave up to Bergereon do you ??? That may have been the weakest goal of the playoffs.

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05-25-2004, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
I'm thinking that Esche won 3 games vs. Tampa, something Theodore failed to do.


I like how Hab fans like to blame Jose Theodore for every playoff loss, but when they're offering him up in trades, he is the absolute different between being a contender and a pretender. Goaltending was the reason we lost to Tampa Bay? Whoever said that obviously hasn't been watching hockey.
I think there are like 2 of us who thinks this trade(steal) shouldn't be done.

Anyway, I would take José over Esche, but this deal is insane. (pitk + gagné... ) (Esche did well in the play-off, better than Théo...)


Last edited by HF-Addict: 05-25-2004 at 02:52 PM.
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05-25-2004, 05:12 PM
  #72
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Pitkanen was benched against Tampa Bay i think?? I'm wrong? If so, why and how much games?

And yeah, Theodore have been poor in the playoffs this year. He gave at least 7 flukes goals on 11 games. Way to much. But, Guy Cloutier & all his family was arrested by the police. Some peoples also wanted to kill Jose Theodore. His team entered the playoffs on a bad streak, his confidence was low.

On the positive side, he was at the all-star game this year, not because of reputation, but because of performance. He won Hart + Vezina, he's only 27, family problems will soon be history. And our team is the best in the last 10 years. Now Theodore will finally play with a good team in front of him, with a good defence.

It's not time to trade him for a 2nd line winger & a talented but highly unproven young defenceman.


Last edited by EaGLE1: 05-25-2004 at 05:18 PM.
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05-25-2004, 05:14 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by EaGLE1
Pitkanen was benched against Tampa Bay i think?? I'm wrong? If so, why and how much games?
He was sat for one game. He looked a littke shaky after recovering from a concussion in the Toronto series.

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05-25-2004, 05:41 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
I'm thinking that Esche won 3 games vs. Tampa, something Theodore failed to do.


I like how Hab fans like to blame Jose Theodore for every playoff loss, but when they're offering him up in trades, he is the absolute different between being a contender and a pretender. Goaltending was the reason we lost to Tampa Bay? Whoever said that obviously hasn't been watching hockey.
I'm not a Theodore fan by any means. I would love to Trade Theodore as a Hab fan and see Garon play. This being said by no means did Esche win 3 games vs Tampa Bay ....Philly did! Esche looked very bad on alot of goals in this series. Esche is not a top 10 goalie in this league and Theodore is. I'm not saying Theodore is worth Gagne and Pitkanen because I don't think he is. But Theodore is a much better goalie then Esche and would have taken Philly further into the playoffs.

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05-25-2004, 06:50 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund
I'm not a Theodore fan by any means. I would love to Trade Theodore as a Hab fan and see Garon play. This being said by no means did Esche win 3 games vs Tampa Bay ....Philly did! Esche looked very bad on alot of goals in this series. Esche is not a top 10 goalie in this league and Theodore is. I'm not saying Theodore is worth Gagne and Pitkanen because I don't think he is. But Theodore is a much better goalie then Esche and would have taken Philly further into the playoffs.

My arguement isn't wheather or not Theodore is better than Esche, because he is. My arguement is that the Flyers didn't lose because of Esche (much like they didn't lose the last 2 years because of Cechmanek, but don't tell Jeremy Roenick that). While Esche wasn't good in Game 6, the Flyers still won, and Montreal have had games with Theodore in net in the past where he let in some not so good goals (Bergeron in OT).

But the difference between winning and losing the series wasn't Robert Esche. It was penalty killing and Nikolai Khabibulin.

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