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So after last year's success, can you tell me if the Habs have gotten better?

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Old
07-04-2010, 05:29 PM
  #26
JGRB
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We also had significant injuries. Cammalleri missed significant action, as did Gionta. Markov missed a ton of time.

You honestly don't think having Subban on the ice for 20-22 minutes a game won't be a serious improvement over Marc-Andre ****ing Bergeron? Really?

We maybe didn't improve much if at all on paper (IMO the additions of Eller + Subban do infact make us better, plus 1 year of chemistry and learning the system). But if we weren't as badly injured we could have fared much better then we did.

Before I hear "every team has to overcome injuries". Yes. I understand that. But we we're in the top half, if not top two thirds of teams for man-games lost. When you factor that these games we're lost to our #1 & #2 wingers, #1b center, and a top 10 franchise defenseman. What do you get? Significant impact.

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07-04-2010, 05:30 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
You act like no team has any needs or concerns heading into the regular season.

Just look at Philly! A weak ass goal cost them the cup and they are still going with the same career minor leaguer as their starter.
True. Thing with Philly is there's not a big market for goaltending right now. Turco and Nabakov are both on the decline. Ellis hasn't proven anything, Mason is old and wants big money. I don't blame them for resigning Leighton. Did they get better? Maringally. Did they get worse? Absolutely not.

They have the pieces to trade for a goalie which I don't doubt they'll do.

Good GMs address problems.

Pittsburgh lost Gonchar....look who they got.
Devils lost Martin...look who they got.
Leafs addressed some holes as well.

Habs would rather hope the existing players somehow get better. LOL

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07-04-2010, 05:34 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee
You really think I'm hear slamming my keyboard? I'm just stating a FACT that the team did not get better. If you can't handle an objective look at your team, then maybe you should log off.
The problem isn't about your "facts". The problem is that you don't even try to contextualize them, calling instead the "complete house cleaning" populism line. It's like stating that the Gulf of Mexico oil spillage is catastrophic (fact), that the current situation is more or less a status-quo (fact), and so it makes sense to fire the US top administration and BP entire higher management (stupid populist overaction that make absolutely no sense). Nobody is agaist facts. Everyone is agaist losing your mind in situation when it makes no sense to lose your mind.
Quote:
You really think the D is better? Spacek and Hamr are good puck moving defencemen? Really? What team have you been watching. There's only 2 d-men who can bring the puck up ice...one is a ROOKIE, the other is Markov who has missed a lot of time the last couple years.
The D is different. Maybe it's not better. Maybe it's a fact. Who cares if it's close to impossible to make it better? With the addition of Subban, it's a unit proven enough to not lose your mind on.
Quote:
I keep hearing "If Andrei and BP bounce back"....that's cool, but they should not be in the top 6 then. They can try to "bounce back" on the 3rd line or on another team (Andrei).
Again, that's all fine and swell, but who cares about considering Andrei and BP top-6 or not? In practice, we can't afford hiring another proven top-6 player, so it's a sound strategy to stockpile high-upside and low-cost players (notably Pouliot and Eller) hoping one will breakthrough. In a cap world, that makes a lot of sense.

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07-04-2010, 05:36 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by EXPOS123 View Post
Finally, some one with common sense.

I agree 100% Jaybee.

What pisses me off is we had to opportunity to get clean house after gainey resigned, but as usual, we went with the gm who can speak french.

For once, i just wish they would step outside the box and hire a gm not because he can speak french or because he was a former player for the habs, but because he has true credentials and who knows what works in today's nhl.

Not to beat a dead horse, but we missed that boat with Yzerman.

Alas, we are left to "enjoy" another seaon of fighting for the 7th or 8th spot.
I find it funny you type exactly like OP does, and you posted 3 mins after he did agreeing with him "100%" . You also have 11 posts.

anyway, while the club hasn't been perfect in every sense in the last 10 yrs (which team has?) the problem is that a lot of fans still live in the glorious past when cups were won every couple of years or less. The nhl these days is a league of parity and we'll be lucky to win more than 1 cup in the next 10 yrs. Live with it and appreciate the smaller victories like going to the ECF. it's extremely difficult and very lucky to put together a cup winning team these days.

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07-04-2010, 05:36 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee
I was one of the few who stressed that we give the team some time.
You just created a new thread in which you called for a "complete house cleaning", and now you're talking about giving the team some time?

How old are you? 26?

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Old
07-04-2010, 05:39 PM
  #31
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The fact that we will start the year with a healthy roster a little more accustomed to one another and the system is already a great improvement in itself.
Then you can add the addition of Subban and Eller. I'm also hoping White will make it.
Then you have guys like Pyatt and Pouliot that theoretically should be better.

How exactly did we not improve??..

And why is it that standing still (with hopes that prospects improved) = taking a step back???

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Old
07-04-2010, 05:41 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
We went deep last year primarily thanks to Halak. So far since then, we have built up our prospect pool and nothing more. In fact, we've handcuffed ourselfs with Plekanec and Gomez and our top six remains decent at best (thanks to Cammalleri and Gionta only) Our D is as bad if not worse than last year. Sure, there have been no changes and Subban should give us a spark, but the rest are a year older and we once again will be missing Markov to start and won't have him at 100% until probably after christmas. Face it, knee injuries (as I know from experiance) take a long time to fully heal.

I don't care what anybody says - Auld is a bad pick-up. Price is on the fence, again, and could play well or could be terrible as we've seen at times in the past. He's a good prospect but now that he's #1, it puts even more pressure on him.

So no, this team is not better than last year. Eller could be a great player for us but will he make an immidiate impact?? Can Subban make enough of a differance to stop the crappy defence from allowing Price from getting peppered with shots like he and Halak had to play through last year?

We still DO NOT have a big shot from the point so the PP should suffer. We still will have trouble scoring 5 on 5 and outside of MAYBE Eller, still don't have anybody illing to goto the net. Gionta will... and will be knocked around like last year. We have nobody willing to drop the gloves and stick up for players outside of O'Byrne so there's no reason for other teams to not to take cheap shots at the more talented players. Whatever...

People can comment all they want and call me negative or whatever they wish, but if YOU the fan are willing to put up with mediocre hockey while still pumping your dollars into the team - why are they going to fix things?

In short, EVERY problem this team had last year is still here with at least one more thrown in. Call it doom and gloom but 2010-2011 will be more of the same.
I didn't overlook the capitalized words and names. I just chose to ignore them, as I did your assertion that you don't care what anyone says. That alone defines your post as a rant, but there's more, of course. What you say hardly closes the debate. It's not unlikely that the Habs could finish higher than they did last season.

Halak held the Habs in but he wasn't the sum total and he isn't guaranteed to repeat his success. Look at what happened to Théodore in 2002-03 and 2004-05. Without Cammallari's 13 goals (and timely scoring by a few others), standout defense and PK (for 2 rounds), and willingness to block shots, Halak would have been no more successful against the Caps and Sens than he was against the Flyers. Price has undeniable talent and has been capable in the past. Auld hasn't lost any games for the Habs as of yet. He's won a few in his NHL career.

The 20010-11 team will get more games out of Markov, a healthy Pouliot (and AKost) should each score over 20 goals this time, Eller (and perhaps Pacioretty) could chip in goals, and Subban should be a major upgrade over MAB. The team adapted to Martin's coaching in the playoffs and the SKost distraction will be a thing of the past.

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Old
07-04-2010, 05:43 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Sadly, some fans are content with the status quo. I can guarantee most of these very posters are under the age of 25.
I'm under 25, you mad ?

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07-04-2010, 05:47 PM
  #34
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Yes those teams had the cap space to make those moves by overpaying. We did that last year. The Pens still don't have any wingers. The Devils replaced Martin by Volchenkov who is not even the same type of d-man. And giving 6 years to that type of player is not that smart.

There were a lot more goalies available than options for our top 6. The Flyers decided to get a 4 million dollar dman for their 3rd d pairing rather than filling their need.

Who is the UFA that you wanted for our top 6? The type of player we were looking for is not available. Aside from Frolov there really is not anyone that interests me that much. And even then we want someone that will be willing to do the dirty work and get to the front of the net.

Now if you want one via trade, that is even harder to do. I doubt many teams are looking to move big power forward.

Because of the big contract we dished out last year, we need to look for cheap alternatives or someone already in our organization. We are already in 'cap hell' and I doubt we want to dig ourselves deeper.

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07-04-2010, 06:00 PM
  #35
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Subban and Markov haven't been in the lineup at the same time.

To me, it's like we're getting a new player in Subban, as we haven't seen the full capabilities of a healthy lineup with him (still beat the Pens though, with him, and without Markov).

There's still room for improvement, especially on offense, but we're steadily getting there.


Last edited by Ozymandias: 07-04-2010 at 06:05 PM.
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07-04-2010, 06:13 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
True. Thing with Philly is there's not a big market for goaltending right now. Turco and Nabakov are both on the decline. Ellis hasn't proven anything, Mason is old and wants big money. I don't blame them for resigning Leighton. Did they get better? Maringally. Did they get worse? Absolutely not.

They have the pieces to trade for a goalie which I don't doubt they'll do.

Good GMs address problems.

Pittsburgh lost Gonchar....look who they got.
Devils lost Martin...look who they got.
Leafs addressed some holes as well.

Habs would rather hope the existing players somehow get better.
LOL
Those were all teams with UFAs to replace. Habs had, hmmm, Plekanec as UFA. They signed him. Who else? Moore? Metropolit? They are still available. All those teams made, at best, sideway moves. Your comparison is bogus and retarded. Wait till next year when Hammer comes off the books, then you'll see the Habs sign a top D with the $ left behind, which will be exactly the same thing those teams did this year. And the list of UFA dmen looks even better next year, so could end-up being a very good thing to keep Hammer in his last season, and have Spacek with only one season @ 3,8 mil which will be easier to trade than either of them this year.. so we'll have all the money freed up for one of the best UFA markets for Dmen in recent years.

The funniest of things is I'm pretty damn sure you were among the people who were ready to hang Gainey last year for doing exactly what you are praising these teams have done this year.

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Old
07-04-2010, 06:20 PM
  #37
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I'm with you, JayBee.

Our team was dead last in the NHL in 5-on-5 scoring last year and virtually all of our success was due to the top-5 goaltending of Jaroslav Halak. Replacing him with Alex Auld and praying that Carey Price can handle the pressure does not leave me with a lot of confidence, nor does the fact that we don't have anyone to replace Moore or Metropolit.

Losing Bergeron helps, Subban should make a big impact, and hopefully the team will be more healthy, but I certainly don't see anything that suggests this team can come anywhere close to a Stanley Cup next season. I hope I'm wrong, but I think this year could be a real struggle.

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07-04-2010, 06:29 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports1131 View Post
I'm with you, JayBee.

Our team was dead last in the NHL in 5-on-5 scoring last year and virtually all of our success was due to the top-5 goaltending of Jaroslav Halak. Replacing him with Alex Auld and praying that Carey Price can handle the pressure does not leave me with a lot of confidence, nor does the fact that we don't have anyone to replace Moore or Metropolit.

Losing Bergeron helps, Subban should make a big impact, and hopefully the team will be more healthy, but I certainly don't see anything that suggests this team can come anywhere close to a Stanley Cup next season. I hope I'm wrong, but I think this year could be a real struggle.
Are you sure you want to commit to that position.

Gionta, Cammalleri, and Andrei all missed 20 games each. They happen to be the three best scorers of the team take the three best scorers of any team and you'll see that their scoring will drop as well. Perfect example of this Boston who had almost as many injuries as we had. They struggles as well until everyone was healthy. The same goes for the Red Wings who were fighting for 8th place for 50 games and then suddenly started to win games once everyone became healthy again.

Markov was injured for a good chunk as well. Without Markov in the line-up we were struggling to stay at .500. Once Markov returned our team was well above .500, that's not a coincidence. So no we did not only win because of Halak.

There are too many people who just talk out of their *****.

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07-04-2010, 06:32 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Is it safe to assume the team took a step back?
...The org. really needs a change in philosophy and that probably means getting rid of Boivin, Gauthier, Martin, Timmins... A complete house cleaning.
No, not 'safe' at all... in lieu of sacrificing the future to appease fans' perceived need for a superstar sniper, Habs mgmt have clearly focused on building a strong pipeline of prospects for the near future. Otherwise the only sure way to build a champion team is by bottoming out in the standings in order to start getting top-3 type draft picks that can lead a championship drive (see PIT, CHI, and ~WAS...). Just 'buying' your players is a failing strategy in the cap era.

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07-04-2010, 06:34 PM
  #40
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Complain, Complain, Complain

Our team PO

Gionta-Gomez-Pouliot
Cammy-Pleks-Kostitsyn
Moen-Moore-Lapierre
Darche-Metro-Pyatt

Subban-Hamrlik
Gill-Gorges
Spacek-Bergeron

Halak
Price

Now this year

Gionta-Gomez-Pouliot
Cammy-Pleks-Kostitsyn
Moen-Eller-Lapierre
XXXX-Pyatt-White

Markov-Subban
Spacek-Hamrlik
Gill-Gorges
O'Byrne

Price
Auld

Yes we did improve if healthy

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Old
07-04-2010, 06:34 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Sports1131 View Post
I'm with you, JayBee.

Our team was dead last in the NHL in 5-on-5 scoring last year and virtually all of our success was due to the top-5 goaltending of Jaroslav Halak. Replacing him with Alex Auld and praying that Carey Price can handle the pressure does not leave me with a lot of confidence, nor does the fact that we don't have anyone to replace Moore or Metropolit.

Losing Bergeron helps, Subban should make a big impact, and hopefully the team will be more healthy, but I certainly don't see anything that suggests this team can come anywhere close to a Stanley Cup next season. I hope I'm wrong, but I think this year could be a real struggle.
We weren't very far last year, with our top dman injured, and best performing dman (Gill) with an injured leg as well. And if you base the success solely on Halak... Craig Anderson played even better than Halak did during the playoffs... but lost in the first round. Miller who also played well, lost in the 1st round, bryzgalov... not to mention Leighton and niemi were the stanley cup final starting goaltenders.


He obviously was a big part, But we got some gritty guys and a great locker room. Hopefully we have an easier route to the cup finals next season, because after beating the two favorites, we faced our kryptonite in the flyers.

Some people think because our players are 1 year older they will only get worse... but I think that they will get better because of what they have been through already together... and how far they've gotten after just starting the season together! Guys, what happened last season was incredible! Compare it to the Edmonton Oilers? How many of their key guys stayed with them the next season?

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07-04-2010, 06:36 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Oh look it's this thread again.

Whine. Whine. Whine.


Yawn. Don't you people get tired of predicting the end of the world and it being wrong. Can you wait until a good portion of this season is actually done.
Ditto. Couldn't have said it better myself.

This is purely and simply a self-serving rant, nothing more. The OP is not happy with his perceived lack of improvement of the team, and goes on to insult those who disagree with him. I love these gems:

'Some posters here refuse to live in reality'

'Sadly, some fans are content with the status quo. I can guarantee most of these very posters are under the age of 25'

'Dumb Hab fan logic'

I'm glad to see some fans are refuting this nicely, so I don't have to. The Habs will be improved over next season, if they can stay healthy. Looking forward to September already!

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07-04-2010, 06:38 PM
  #43
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lol this thread is jokes. PG likes the team, what did you expect?

bookmarked thread for possibly epic lulz at end of season


Last edited by uiCk: 07-04-2010 at 06:47 PM.
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Old
07-04-2010, 06:57 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Yes, anything can happen from now until early October but looks like the Habs are pretty much set with their lineup.

Is it safe to assume the team took a step back?

top 6 position = not addressed
lack of size = not addressed
goaltending situation = addressed although they took a step back
lack of scoring 5 on 5 = not addreessed
adding a puck moving defensive responsible d-man = not addressed

Yes, they got a decent prospect in Eller... but besides that, Habs lack of addressing some big needs is rather disappointing and sadly predictable.

Now, Gauthier could make a couple trades and completely address the above, but I doubt that will happen.

I don't really have any expectations this upcoming season and the team will again be fighting for a playoff spot. Different year, same story.

The org. really needs a change in philosophy and that probably means getting rid of Boivin, Gauthier, Martin, Timmins... A complete house cleaning.
Wow.....What can one say, this guy REALLY knows hockey

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07-04-2010, 06:59 PM
  #45
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I see the merits of both sides of the argument. However, I am slightly pessimistic mainly because of our d and difficulty in scoring goals. I believe the season will hinge on Pools and Kosty's performance in the top-six and Subban's consistency.

Another thing we need to take into consideration is whether or not the teams around the Habs have improved more in this off season than the Habs.

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07-04-2010, 07:00 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
On paper, is the team better?

Year in and year out, is this team not always fightign for the last playoff spot?

Some posters here refuse to live in reality.
if we stay healthy, we are a much better team...

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07-04-2010, 07:00 PM
  #47
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"but but but the Habs were injured last year."

"but but but they will be completely healthy this year"

"but but but they only lost to Philly because Markov was injured. He surely would have been able to go to the net and screen the goalie if he were playing"

"but but but we traded that cancer Sergei. Surely that should make Andrei a 40 goal scorer"

The Habs apologists are funny.

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07-04-2010, 07:01 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
"but but but the Habs were injured last year."

"but but but they will be completely healthy this year"

"but but but they only lost to Philly because Markov wasn't there"

The Habs apologists are funny.
Your argument is just that....an argument.....however ridiculous it is....We were in the top 4 last year regardless of all the injuries to key players.....you dont see how stupid and ridiculous this argument is?

A waste of a thread....

Bonne chance que le ridicule tue pas......

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07-04-2010, 07:04 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by bipolarhabfan View Post
I see the merits of both sides of the argument. However, I am slightly pessimistic mainly because of our d and difficulty in scoring goals. I believe the season will hinge on Pools and Kosty's performance in the top-six and Subban's consistency.

Another thing we need to take into consideration is whether or not the teams around the Habs have improved more in this off season than the Habs.
Leafs improve
Bruins improve
Sens improve a bit

Sabres took a step back. You can kinda do that when you have a stud goalie though.

If you're an opposing team, are you really affraid of Carey Price and the habs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Your argument is just that....an argument.....however ridiculous it is....We were in the top 4 last year regardless of all the injuries to key players.....you dont see how stupid and ridiculous this argument is?

A waste of a thread....

Bonne chance que le ridicule tue pas......
Is it ridiculous to think Halak was the biggest reason why the Habs got as far as they did? Other players contributed, but Halak stole many games.... He's now with the Blues.

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07-04-2010, 07:08 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
"but but but the Habs were injured last year."

"but but but they will be completely healthy this year"

"but but but they only lost to Philly because Markov was injured. He surely would have been able to go to the net and screen the goalie if he were playing"

"but but but we traded that cancer Sergei. Surely that should make Andrei a 40 goal scorer"

The Habs apologists are funny.
Never let it be said that you don't have a sense of humor

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