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So after last year's success, can you tell me if the Habs have gotten better?

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Old
07-04-2010, 07:11 PM
  #51
E = CH≤
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Oh look it's this thread again.

Whine. Whine. Whine.


Yawn. Don't you people get tired of predicting the end of the world and it being wrong. Can you wait until a good portion of this season is actually done.
Not that I want to support this thread, or anyone else participating in it, but... wouldn't you say most people that have predicted bad things have been right over the past 5 to 7 seasons ?

The only two times where you can make an argument people have been wrong is 2 seasons ago when we finished #1 in the regular season with an exceptionally healthy line up, and ended up barely beating the 8th seed and lost in the 2nd round.

And the other time was this season when we squeaked into the playoffs in 8th position, and rode our goalie to the ECF with two game 7 wins.

Just saying that in the past 7 seasons, it's been far from sunshine, lollipops, little naked angels and rainbows.

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07-04-2010, 07:15 PM
  #52
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Allow me to put it in real world terms that you may understand
apologists, haters and Kool-aid drinkers aside

Let's say that your child is diagnosed with a serious enough malady
As a parent you have essentially 2 choices

1) deal with it, do the best you can balloons and games for everyone as long as smiles and chuckles all around

2) Slink into a dark cave to deal with the pain, the bottom of a bottle being your friend.

outlook is everything, make your choice

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07-04-2010, 07:15 PM
  #53
Mats NAslund
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God I hate all the negativity here.....What's the problem!

If the Habs stay healthy, right there they're better then last year!
This team has had a year to gel and we saw them do it in the playoffs. With a little luck and stabilty with their lines this team is better!

They added Eller as a third line centre and he's an upgrade on anyone that played that position last year.

Montreal has a litlle more depth then they did last year and a guy like Pyatt has found his way.

There are tons of positives going into this season yet some can only try and find something negative!

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07-04-2010, 07:16 PM
  #54
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Edit: This post is mainly in reply to the OP. I forgot to quote it, lol.


I'm happy with our defense. Some folks here are really underestimating the impact that having Subban and Markov on the same defense corps for half a season could have. Subban is no minor addition. He alone should help our D a lot. And we didn't lose anybody on our D that was of consequence, except perhaps MAB (PP wise) but Subban can likely make up for that and then some. Our D should be taking a step or two forward next season, not back.

I'm happy with us down the middle. We kept Pleks and added Eller. If Eller pans out as expected, he should be an above average 3rd line center for us this season. Gomez-Pleks-Eller-Pyatt/Laps should make for a very solid group of centers. Not great, but deep and solid. At center ice, we'll probably be taking a step forward as well.

Most folks here still thinks that Price will be a great goalie. The organization clearly thinks that as well. If so, then we're fine in goal. But I will admit I'm not yet totally sold on Price's ability to be THE guy for us. This is the one variable that could swing us all the way from first in the division to last in the division, imo.

The additions of Eller and Boyd to what we already had makes me happy about our bottom six forwards. We should have a third line with some scoring punch, and a good tenacious energy line for our fourth line. An enforcer on the bottom six might be nice, but its not that important, imo.


Where we still need help is on the Top Six wings. That is our one remaining major hole, imo.


I'm not prepared to judge Gauthier's off-season work yet, because there's still players out there on the UFA market that could make a big difference to this team.

For example, if you add Frolov to this team it likely fills three of the team weaknesses that you mentioned (your 1, 2, and 4). In one swoop we'd take care of all of the team's biggest remaining issues (your 3 and 5 are debatable imo). We have a good, solid line-up from top to bottom if we add Frolov.

But if we don't add Frolov (or another player that can fill our needs like he can), we're gambling quite a bit, I will admit. We're gambling on a lot of young guys to really step up.


If Gauthier gets Frolov (or another player that can fill our needs like he can), then I'll give Gauthier's offseason work a B or B+. If Gautheir doesn't land such a player, he gets a C or C-. That's how important adding that Top Six winger is, imo.

But, at least we kept Pleks and added a couple of interesting young players up front (Eller and Boyd).

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07-04-2010, 07:17 PM
  #55
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Have the habs gotten better? It depends how you look at it.

Do I believe the habs will make the final 4 again next year? No.

But we also got a chance to see some prospects on the big club due to the barrage of injuries last season. Subban looks very close, if not ready. Carle didn't look bad, Trotter looked good on a limited sample, White looks like he is going to be an important bottom 6 guy one day, pyatt kept getting better and better as the season wore on. Desharnais showed promise in his stint.

Add Eller to our depth at centre... he's almost ready. I dont want to get too ahead of myself but Avtsyn may play on the bulldogs this year and he is going to be very intriguing to follow.

Yes, there are some glaring holes particularly in the top 6, but compared to this time last year, I'm much more at peace with the organizational depth.

So in the big picture, yes, I do believe the habs are getting better.

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07-04-2010, 07:18 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Is it safe to assume the team took a step back?

top 6 position = not addressed
lack of size = not addressed
goaltending situation = addressed although they took a step back
lack of scoring 5 on 5 = not addreessed
adding a puck moving defensive responsible d-man = not addressed

Now, Gauthier could make a couple trades and completely address the above, but I doubt that will happen.
Even if all the flaws mentioned are correct, they canít be addressed by trade. First of all, the 29 possible trade partners are rival teams and they certainly arenít looking to help out. To acquire players you need to give something back in return. You have to target certain players, and then you need to find a willing trading partner. Finding the right trade partner, especially in the cap era, isnít an easy task.

Perhaps on paper it may seem like the Habs regressed but the core of the team remains intact, that's positive. This team gained experience and had a decent playoff run, we should expect them to all be on the same page at the beginning of next season.

Players that could potentially cause distractions have been moved and replaced, another positive.

As long as Markov stays healthy, the defensive core should be fine. Iím just a little worried about overworking the aging defensemen in case of injuries. Management should try to improve our D next year with the expiry of a few contracts.

By acquiring a backup instead of a 1b Gauthier took a risk with Price, will have to see how it works out.
.
.
.
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Auld should address the lack of size. By being completely bald he might also help AK (partially bald) regain some self-confidence thus solving the top 6 issue.

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07-04-2010, 07:19 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
Allow me to put it in real world terms that you may understand
apologists, haters and Kool-aid drinkers aside

Let's say that your child is diagnosed with a serious enough malady
As a parent you have essentially 2 choices

1) deal with it, do the best you can balloons and games for everyone as long as smiles and chuckles all around

2) Slink into a dark cave to deal with the pain, the bottom of a bottle being your friend.

outlook is everything, make your choice
Well said my friend, I can relate. I have two rare forms of Cancer for someone my age. I'm the youngest person to have this combination of cancer ( I knew I was special, LOL) I should be dead.

It would have been easy for me to crawl under a rock and give up and during chemo I wanted to but I didn't.

All this to say, quit being so God damn negative!

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Old
07-04-2010, 07:22 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by E = CH≤ View Post
Not that I want to support this thread, or anyone else participating in it, but... wouldn't you say most people that have predicted bad things have been right over the past 5 to 7 seasons ?

The only two times where you can make an argument people have been wrong is 2 seasons ago when we finished #1 in the regular season with an exceptionally healthy line up, and ended up barely beating the 8th seed and lost in the 2nd round.

And the other time was this season when we squeaked into the playoffs in 8th position, and rode our goalie to the ECF with two game 7 wins.

Just saying that in the past 7 seasons, it's been far from sunshine, lollipops, little naked angels and rainbows.
No one has claimed or is claiming that it has been, however, the alarmist always paint the worst picture, when in fact the reality isn't that gloom or bleak.

The difference between the alarmists and the "apologists" is that the latter can have a discussion as to where the team needs improvement without exaggerating particulars or resorting to extreme positions and calling for everyone's head.

All I ever hear from most fans is how terrible our team is, how our management is a bucnh of clowns, yet these statements never reflect what happens in the actual games.

The habs aren't perfect, but they aren't crap either. They are headed in the right direction that's for sure. We identified a younger core with Gomez, Cammalleri, Gionta, Price, Plekanec, Markov and Subban. Also our organization have been quite active in trying to fill up our prospect pool once again with the acquisitions of Pouliot, Eller and Boyd in less than half a year. Of these three players two are first round picks, while the other was once a highly touted prospect.

Gauthier identified what the real problem was and that was a lack of depth at the forward position. Our top 6 despite what many claim was fine in the playoffs, it was our bottom 6 that had trouble contributing, they had only 9 goals in 19 games. Gauthier brought in two younger cheaper players that not only can provide offense, but that can also fill in a spot if someone in our top 6 goes down, a privilidge we did not have last year.

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07-04-2010, 07:23 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by E = CH≤ View Post
Not that I want to support this thread, or anyone else participating in it, but... wouldn't you say most people that have predicted bad things have been right over the past 5 to 7 seasons ?

The only two times where you can make an argument people have been wrong is 2 seasons ago when we finished #1 in the regular season with an exceptionally healthy line up, and ended up barely beating the 8th seed and lost in the 2nd round.

And the other time was this season when we squeaked into the playoffs in 8th position, and rode our goalie to the ECF with two game 7 wins.

Just saying that in the past 7 seasons, it's been far from sunshine, lollipops, little naked angels and rainbows.
talk for yourself, im sure alot of people here have had good years, good games, good thrills over the past 7 seasons. People seem to forget this is a game/entertainment.

IMO i would take a closer look as to why im actually a fan. Some of you seem to be here for one reason only, to get the thrill of "winning". (Sorry to say, but its all in your head at the end of the day)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
Well said my friend, I can relate. I have two rare forms of Cancer for someone my age. I'm the youngest person to have this combination of cancer ( I knew I was special, LOL) I should be dead.

It would have been easy for me to crawl under a rock and give up and during chemo I wanted to but I didn't.

All this to say, quit being so God damn negative!
Positivity is one hell of a drug
Sad thing to hear, all the best to you


Last edited by uiCk: 07-04-2010 at 07:31 PM.
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Old
07-04-2010, 07:25 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
Well said my friend, I can relate. I have two rare forms of Cancer for someone my age. I'm the youngest person to have this combination of cancer ( I knew I was special, LOL) I should be dead.

It would have been easy for me to crawl under a rock and give up and during chemo I wanted to but I didn't.

All this to say, quit being so God damn negative!
All the best to you
Keep the shiny side up!!

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07-04-2010, 07:31 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
Edit: This post is mainly in reply to the OP. I forgot to quote it, lol.


I'm happy with our defense. Some folks here are really underestimating the impact that having Subban and Markov on the same defense corps for half a season could have. Subban is no minor addition. He alone should help our D a lot. And we didn't lose anybody on our D that was of consequence, except perhaps MAB (PP wise) but Subban can likely make up for that and then some. Our D should be taking a step or two forward next season, not back.

I'm happy with us down the middle. We kept Pleks and added Eller. If Eller pans out as expected, he should be an above average 3rd line center for us this season. Gomez-Pleks-Eller-Pyatt/Laps should make for a very solid group of centers. Not great, but deep and solid. At center ice, we'll probably be taking a step forward as well.

Most folks here still thinks that Price will be a great goalie. The organization clearly thinks that as well. If so, then we're fine in goal. But I will admit I'm not yet totally sold on Price's ability to be THE guy for us. This is the one variable that could swing us all the way from first in the division to last in the division, imo.

The additions of Eller and Boyd to what we already had makes me happy about our bottom six forwards. We should have a third line with some scoring punch, and a good tenacious energy line for our fourth line. An enforcer on the bottom six might be nice, but its not that important, imo.


Where we still need help is on the Top Six wings. That is our one remaining major hole, imo.


I'm not prepared to judge Gauthier's off-season work yet, because there's still players out there on the UFA market that could make a big difference to this team.

For example, if you add Frolov to this team it likely fills three of the team weaknesses that you mentioned (your 1, 2, and 4). In one swoop we'd take care of all of the team's biggest remaining issues (your 3 and 5 are debatable imo). We have a good, solid line-up from top to bottom if we add Frolov.

But if we don't add Frolov (or another player that can fill our needs like he can), we're gambling quite a bit, I will admit. We're gambling on a lot of young guys to really step up.


If Gauthier gets Frolov (or another player that can fill our needs like he can), then I'll give Gauthier's offseason work a B or B+. If Gautheir doesn't land such a player, he gets a C or C-. That's how important adding that Top Six winger is, imo.

But, at least we kept Pleks and added a couple of interesting young players up front (Eller and Boyd).
Here is a response I can live with. Very unbiased...although I may not agree completely, I can respect your opinion.

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07-04-2010, 07:34 PM
  #62
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It saddens me how some fans in here are OK with winning a couple games, getting eliminated and making "Thank You" videos on Youtube. That's fine...but don't knock the fans who actually want to see their team claim the ultimate prize...which is the Stanley Cup.

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07-04-2010, 07:40 PM
  #63
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Leafs improve
Bruins improve
Sens improve a bit

Sabres took a step back. You can kinda do that when you have a stud goalie though.

If you're an opposing team, are you really affraid of Carey Price and the habs?
Is the season over and I missed it? How did that stud goalie Ryan Miller score 50 goals for Buffalo? Did the Bruins clear enough cap space to sign 23 players, and did they have to send Seguin back to the OHL because they couldn't afford him, like they did with Rask or Anaheim with Ryan? Did one of the worst offenses in the NHL in Toronto last season, after dealing most of their goal scorers away, suddenly get 80 goal seasons from their additions Armstrong and Versteeg or did the NHL start awarding truculence points like franc jeu points in Quebec minor hockey? Did Gonchar, Alfredsson and Kovalev discover the fountain of youth somewhere near Kanata? No team in our division has improved without losing something in another area, it is only when the season is done that we will know which experiments worked and which did not. In terms of stability, I think the cosmetic changes here are less likely to backfire than the bigger ones made by the other teams in the division. The same improvement fans of all the teams expect from their youth, fans in Montreal count on from theirs. As to Price, I don't see more question marks about him then any other goalie in the division except Miller, and even he failed to carry the team on his own in the playoffs.

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07-04-2010, 07:47 PM
  #64
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It's the summer. There will be plenty of time to ***** in the fall if things don't go right.

Take comfort in knowing that in the past 3 seasons you've seen your team finish #1 in their conference, make it to the final 4 of the Stanley Cup playoffs, win more overall games than 20 other teams, and play some very entertaining games.

It's the off-season for fans too. You'll get an ulcer if you worry about what could happen 6 months from now.

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07-04-2010, 07:55 PM
  #65
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It saddens me how some fans in here are OK with winning a couple games, getting eliminated and making "Thank You" videos on Youtube. That's fine...but don't knock the fans who actually want to see their team claim the ultimate prize...which is the Stanley Cup.
Because expressing extreme pessimism is the only way to express your want for the cup. Yeaha, your one of a kind, your so special, so diferent. let me pad your back.





ps. we all want cup, your not that special.

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07-04-2010, 07:59 PM
  #66
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ps. we all want cup, your not that special.
I always thought I was special, and i'm not a pessimist, was my momma really wrong?

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07-04-2010, 08:05 PM
  #67
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Because expressing extreme pessimism is the only way to express your want for the cup. Yeaha, your one of a kind, your so special, so diferent. let me pad your back.





ps. we all want cup, your not that special.
You sound hurt.

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07-04-2010, 08:06 PM
  #68
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Quote:
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We weren't very far last year, with our top dman injured, and best performing dman (Gill) with an injured leg as well. And if you base the success solely on Halak... Craig Anderson played even better than Halak did during the playoffs... but lost in the first round. Miller who also played well, lost in the 1st round, bryzgalov... not to mention Leighton and niemi were the stanley cup final starting goaltenders.


He obviously was a big part, But we got some gritty guys and a great locker room. Hopefully we have an easier route to the cup finals next season, because after beating the two favorites, we faced our kryptonite in the flyers.

Some people think because our players are 1 year older they will only get worse... but I think that they will get better because of what they have been through already together... and how far they've gotten after just starting the season together! Guys, what happened last season was incredible! Compare it to the Edmonton Oilers? How many of their key guys stayed with them the next season?
Our playoff run was amazing and you're absolutely right -- it wasn't all due to Halak (although I think he played the biggest role). If our entire team didn't buy into the shot blocking and strong defensive play we wouldn't have made it out of the first round.

However, we can't forget that this team only made it into the playoffs by losing in overtime to the 29th ranked team in the league in game #82. Assuming the offense does not improve and that Auld will probably play around 20 games, Price will need to be even better than Halak was last year just to have a chance at reaching the playoffs. Aside from hopefully having a healthier roster, I don't see anything that suggests our offense will be better and I also don't see any reason to believe Price is suddenly going to be one of the best goalies in the NHL.

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07-04-2010, 08:17 PM
  #69
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You sound hurt.
I beg to differ

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The org. really needs a change in philosophy and that probably means getting rid of Boivin, Gauthier, Martin, Timmins... A complete house cleaning.

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07-04-2010, 08:19 PM
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Adding PK along with not losing significant chunks of time from Cammy, Gio and especially Markov make us a better team already.

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07-04-2010, 08:20 PM
  #71
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The fact that we will start the year with a healthy roster a little more accustomed to one another and the system is already a great improvement in itself.
Then you can add the addition of Subban and Eller. I'm also hoping White will make it.
Then you have guys like Pyatt and Pouliot that theoretically should be better.

How exactly did we not improve??..

And why is it that standing still (with hopes that prospects improved) = taking a step back???
Are you serious? We lost Moore probably and Halak/Price>>>>>>>>>Price/auld. How can we deny we have taken a step back.

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07-04-2010, 08:20 PM
  #72
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Habs with Price = rolling the dice

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07-04-2010, 08:24 PM
  #73
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Habs with Price = rolling the dice
You're not a true fan.

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07-04-2010, 08:25 PM
  #74
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Those were all teams with UFAs to replace. Habs had, hmmm, Plekanec as UFA. They signed himW. Who else? Moore? Metropolit? They are still available. All those teams made, at best, sideway moves. Your comparison is bogus and retarded. Wait till next year when Hammer comes off the books, then you'll see the Habs sign a top D with the $ left behind, which will be exactly the same thing those teams did this year. And the list of UFA dmen looks even better next year, so could end-up being a very good thing to keep Hammer in his last season, and have Spacek with only one season @ 3,8 mil which will be easier to trade than either of them this year.. so we'll have all the money freed up for one of the best UFA markets for Dmen in recent years.

The funniest of things is I'm pretty damn sure you were among the people who were ready to hang Gainey last year for doing exactly what you are praising these teams have done this year.
Wait. I thought we were gonna trade hamrlik and spacek this year and sign Martin bla bla bla and Boucher would never leave. Talk about retarded.

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07-04-2010, 08:29 PM
  #75
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You're not a true fan.
O look, suprise suprise, the thread turns into another Halak whine fest. i did not see this coming

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