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So after last year's success, can you tell me if the Habs have gotten better?

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Old
07-04-2010, 10:05 PM
  #101
scottyG
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
*sigh*

top 4? Habs were a point away from finishing near the bottom of the league. And they were the same way the year before and 2 years before that and the year before that. Do you see a trend?

You question me being a Hab fan because my expectations are higher than yours? I've heard it all

keep trying to downplay Halak's role in the playoffs. If Camm was traded, you'd do the same thing.
But but but Philly was a shootout away from being out. I didn't see them making major improvements?

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07-04-2010, 10:07 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
But but but Philly was a shootout away from being out. I didn't see them making major improvements?
Who said the Habs had to make major changes? Why do people keep bringing up Philly as if they're the only other team in the NHL?

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07-04-2010, 10:08 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Who said the Habs had to make major changes? Why do people keep bringing up Philly as if they're the only other team in the NHL?
Well they are the only team not named Chicago to go to the stanley cup finals last year

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07-04-2010, 10:12 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by jamz View Post
lets lose for 5 years straight and then win a cup like pitt/chi did and then not have money to pay our stars and trade them away
sounds good to me although we'd lose the respect of everyone in the hockey world...

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07-04-2010, 10:14 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Not that I want to support this thread, or anyone else participating in it, but... wouldn't you say most people that have predicted bad things have been right over the past 5 to 7 seasons ?
It's not a 5 to 7 season thing, nor is it about predicting bad things, IMO.

It's a decade-old HF thing to go all-or-nothing and the mere injection of realism in a conversation causes fits. Like, if you didn't immediately drank the kool-aid back in 2001 and babbled that Komisarek was gonna be a faster, more offensive version of Derian Hatcher, you were some kind of hater.

Same thing if you didn't predict Koivu was gonna have his breakout "second coming of Peter Forsberg" season every ****ing year.

That's what really sucks.

As for the current Habs, I don't think it's as bad as JayBee makes it out to be but it could be better. Looks like the team still has no definite direction, just like in the good old years of "Genius Gainey", the man with a 5-year plan made of air and wishful thinking by a bunch of a simpletons.

The Habs dumped the best player they've had in over a decade, continue to be fiscally irresponsible so that in the future, they will dump more players and they continue to inject a few mediocre prospects and mismanage them and other assets.

But a house cleaning? Overreaction. Gauthier and Martin have just started. I'd like to see a new president, though. Someone who will give a clear direction to the team.

Gauthier deserves a longer chance (even though he's already started screwing up and looks like he will be just as bad as the three guys who were there before him). Jacques Martin did good. I can't understand why people already want him out. The guy more than deserves to be behind the bench as of now.

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Old
07-04-2010, 10:16 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
Perhaps more AHL seasoning is called for. That worked for Subban (it seems), and the lack of it may have hurt Lats and Patches.
It really is that simple

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07-04-2010, 10:18 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
*sigh*

top 4? Habs were a point away from finishing near the bottom of the league. And they were the same way the year before and 2 years before that and the year before that. Do you see a trend?

You question me being a Hab fan because my expectations are higher than yours? I've heard it all

keep trying to downplay Halak's role in the playoffs. If Camm was traded, you'd do the same thing.
What kind of moves did you expect the Habs management to make this off season? I'm not trying to shoot down your point of view, I'm just curious as to the moves you wanted them to make with what was available this summer.

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07-04-2010, 10:27 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by MacKmtl View Post
What kind of moves did you expect the Habs management to make this off season? I'm not trying to shoot down your point of view, I'm just curious as to the moves you wanted them to make with what was available this summer.
Well, am I the GM this summer or from a few years back? If it's this summer, I'm putting both Price and Halak on the market and seeing who can give me the best return. That return would have to be at least a young potential stud d-man with NHL experience or a top 6 winger. I'd sign Pleks (the only move I liked). If I stick with Halak, I probably wouldn't touch the D and I'd do the Auld signing. If I stick with Price I go hard for Ellis and insulate him with a strong D-man. I might have to get rid of Hamr for a pick.

I'd also resign Moore and try to add a "tough guy" who can add the odd goal for chump change.

AndreiM would be shipped out.

Again, if you're at the cap ceiling, you can make moves to clear up some space.

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07-04-2010, 10:33 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Why do people say this? Halak was a big reason why the Habs made it as far as they did. Apparently this is too difficult for you to digest.
It's not difficult for me to digest anything. I actually have a great digestive system.
Halak certainly was a key player for us. He was nothing short of miraculous during the POs. In the regular season though, he was just a little better than Price but benefited from a much better goal support. That's a fact, I'm not inventing anything.

So, with proper goal support, there's no reason whatsoever to think our goaltending during the season will be worst.



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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
That is a pile of excuses, maybe it rained more last year or the fans cheered too loud or not loud enough. How about the jersies were kinda itchy for a game and they got angry at the cleaners.

Maybe one day the stars will align and every molecule in the world will be perfect and the habs can play without constant excuses for their laziness?
I don't care if you think they're ''excuses'', they remain facts.
You can play dumb and think none of these factual reasons should hold any type of impact, but it's been proven that they do.
Look at the two best teams over these past years, Pittsburgh and Detroit.
Two years ago, the Pens were playing for .500 until Gonchar came back. They went on a complete tear that boosted them in the top4 and followed through by winning the Stanley Cup.
Last year, Detroit had a tough time securing a PO spot until their injured players came back.
So, if injuries can play such an important role on the best teams in the NHL, then why should they just be considered excuses for us??...

I'm not saying everything will go right and all the stars need to be aligned, that's why I care very little if we finish 1st-3rd-7th or 8th. The reasons why we finish at a certain position are more important.

If we finished 8th last year with a relatively healthy team without having gone through big changes, then yea, I'd be a little more worried.
But with everything that happened last year, I can't say I'm surprised we didn't finish in the top 3.

I didn't make up crappy excuses, they're factual reasons. You can think they're bad reasons, but apply them on any team and I guarantee you the same(or similar) results happen.

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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Injuries and whatnot occur and you have to deal. Though, Price getting less goal support was proven.
I actually think we dealt with injuries well. With the many ones we suffered, we managed to maintain a .500 record.
Last year without Markov we couldn't win 1 game. So that was a huge improvement considering we missed him just a little under half a year.

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Old
07-04-2010, 10:45 PM
  #110
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Every single team has injuries EVERY YEAR, we didn't go on a tear when Markov came back. The fact that the team collapses when a single player goes down just shows you how weak the team truly is.

Nonsense like "no set top 6" and "unknown pairings" is ridiculous and sounds like you are just pulling excuses out of your ass. These are seasoned veterens, not rookies. They were together for 80 games and didn't improve much during the season just limping into the playoffs.

Price has less goal support did he? How was this proven? Did the defense come forward and say "we decided not to support Price in net because he smells bad"? I can tell you who had no support and that was Halak as he was bombarded with shots every game of the playoffs.

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Old
07-04-2010, 10:52 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Every single team has injuries EVERY YEAR, we didn't go on a tear when Markov came back. The fact that the team collapses when a single player goes down just shows you how weak the team truly is.

Nonsense like "no set top 6" and "unknown pairings" is ridiculous and sounds like you are just pulling excuses out of your ass. These are seasoned veterens, not rookies. They were together for 80 games and didn't improve much during the season just limping into the playoffs.

Price has less goal support did he? How was this proven? Did the defense come forward and say "we decided not to support Price in net because he smells bad"? I can tell you who had no support and that was Halak as he was bombarded with shots every game of the playoffs.
So when the team scores 26 goals in 21 of his losses that doesn't prove he get's no goal support

And yes every team has injuries.. Montreal just had a lot more injuries

Also why is it that every post from you is either basing/complaining about something in our team?

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07-04-2010, 10:58 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Well, am I the GM this summer or from a few years back?
Let's dissect your moves shall we..

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
If it's this summer, I'm putting both Price and Halak on the market and seeing who can give me the best return.
Okay.

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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
That return would have to be at least a young potential stud d-man with NHL experience or a top 6 winger.
What if you don't get that return??..
If I understood your posts well, then you clearly think Halak is the better goalie of the two. So, if Gauthier couldn't get a stud D or top 6, what makes you think you'd be able too??..
And if Halak can't fetch you that, then certainly you won't think Price will bring you that (seeing as you think Halak is the better one)

So the question persists, what if you can't get that return?..
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
I'd sign Pleks (the only move I liked). If I stick with Halak, I probably wouldn't touch the D and I'd do the Auld signing.
Well, if you re-signed Plek and sign Halak (he can go to arbitration so he'll likely won't get under 4M) + Auld, then you have about 2M left in cap room.
How do you suggest you re-signing your RFAs and filling up other holes??

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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
If I stick with Price I go hard for Ellis and insulate him with a strong D-man. I might have to get rid of Hamr for a pick.
What if Ellis asks for 2-2.5M???..He signed for 1.5M in TB with much cheaper taxes.
And who do you bring in to insulate your D exactly????..How much would that cost you??..
What if you can't find a taker for Hammer??..

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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
I'd also resign Moore and try to add a "tough guy" who can add the odd goal for chump change.
Which tough guy can add the odd goal??..You think you'd be able to re-sign Plek, Halak+Auld or Price+Ellis+Solid top 3D+Trade Hammer and then re-sign Moore, add a guy like Armstrong at 3M??
Not to mention, this is without re-sign Lappy/Pouliot/Pyatt/Darche ( we had about 11M free before re-signing anybody)
Does your team also have an exceptionally higher cap room than every other team in the NHL too???...

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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
AndreiM would be shipped out.
For what return and what if you can't get more than a 2nd rounder?..
What if you couldn't find a top 6 to replace him?..you'd be creating a void on top 6.

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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Again, if you're at the cap ceiling, you can make moves to clear up some space.
Sure, you can make some moves. Doesn't mean you can do everything you want.

Stop living in lala land.

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Old
07-04-2010, 10:58 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
So when the team scores 26 goals in 21 of his losses that doesn't prove he get's no goal support

And yes every team has injuries.. Montreal just had a lot more injuries

Also why is it that every post from you is either basing/complaining about something in our team?
Because that's what he always does.

it seems to be his sole purpose on the board.

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Old
07-04-2010, 11:14 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Every single team has injuries EVERY YEAR, we didn't go on a tear when Markov came back. The fact that the team collapses when a single player goes down just shows you how weak the team truly is.
Actually, we maintained a .500 record while going through many injuries. It's quite decently good.

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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Nonsense like "no set top 6" and "unknown pairings" is ridiculous and sounds like you are just pulling excuses out of your ass. These are seasoned veterens, not rookies. They were together for 80 games and didn't improve much during the season just limping into the playoffs.
Nonsense?..Guys are not used to playing together and under a new system. Sorry if this is tough for you to grasp, but chemistry doesn't get built through 20games. Especially not when you're constantly moved around.
You clearly have not playing in a true competitive team, otherwise I don't understand how you'd say this.
Remember how good Markov and Komisarek were together in their first season paired up??..
Remember how solid they became as they gained YEARS of chemistry next to one another??..

This notion that anybody can play together, find chemistry with new linemates withing a new system after a few games is ridiculous. It can take years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Price has less goal support did he? How was this proven? Did the defense come forward and say "we decided not to support Price in net because he smells bad"? I can tell you who had no support and that was Halak as he was bombarded with shots every game of the playoffs.
Just look at the goals scored for when Price was playing vs Halak. They faced about the same number of shots every night and have a small difference in terms of goals allowed per game as well, yet the difference in terms of Wins is huge. That's goal support.

Halak was great in the POs, during the first two series. But we're talking about the regular season.

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Old
07-04-2010, 11:45 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Halak held the Habs in but he wasn't the sum total and he isn't guaranteed to repeat his success. Look at what happened to Théodore in 2002-03 and 2004-05. Without Cammallari's 13 goals (and timely scoring by a few others), standout defense and PK (for 2 rounds), and willingness to block shots, Halak would have been no more successful against the Caps and Sens than he was against the Flyers. Price has undeniable talent and has been capable in the past. Auld hasn't lost any games for the Habs as of yet. He's won a few in his NHL career.

The 20010-11 team will get more games out of Markov, a healthy Pouliot (and AKost) should each score over 20 goals this time, Eller (and perhaps Pacioretty) could chip in goals, and Subban should be a major upgrade over MAB. The team adapted to Martin's coaching in the playoffs and the SKost distraction will be a thing of the past.
Alright, valid points. Gorges and Gill did a damn fine job blocking shots and shutting down several elite players. Cammallari's 13 goals were the most in this year's playoffs and the most scored by a Hab since the cup win in '93 (...and maybe longer?) and his play was pretty great until he met Pronger and the massive Flyers D-corps.

To say Markov "will" play more games this year than last is pure speculation, though. He may, he may not. And this is what I mean when I say the Habs didn't improve. Markov missing time at key parts of seasons or post-seasons is not a new occurance. Why? I don't know... bad luck? Targeting as a key player and run?? Either way, Montreal NEEDS to upgrade the defence. Subban is awesome but how many games has he played? He'll be a great piece of the puzzle going forward but there needs to be another solid puck moving veteran besides the oft-injured Markov for when injuries do hit. Please, don't mention Hamrlik or Spacek; their prime is behind them.

YOu say Pouliot and Kostitsyn SHOULD each hit the 20 goal mark. Should. That is the problem. It's not a for sure thing from either of them... possible, sure, but how likely is it in all honesty? As somebody mentioned before, let them bounce back from the 3rd line and not the top six. Then there's two more shoulds or maybes in Eller and Pacioretty. Again, nothing solid. See what I mean?

As for Subban being an improvement over M-A Bergeron... heck, just Subban's jock lying on the ice would stop more rushes than MAB.

Once the Habs ran into the fiesty Flyers, it was lights out. Not from running out of gas, but because they couldn't get to the net. No garbage goals... no tip-ins, no rebounds. Our forwards were kept far from the crease and that was why we couldn't defeat the Flyers. That problem has not been answered.

(P.s. I'm guessing the "Sens" was a typo and meant to say "Pens"?)

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07-04-2010, 11:57 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Well, am I the GM this summer or from a few years back? If it's this summer, I'm putting both Price and Halak on the market and seeing who can give me the best return. That return would have to be at least a young potential stud d-man with NHL experience or a top 6 winger. I'd sign Pleks (the only move I liked). If I stick with Halak, I probably wouldn't touch the D and I'd do the Auld signing. If I stick with Price I go hard for Ellis and insulate him with a strong D-man. I might have to get rid of Hamr for a pick.

I'd also resign Moore and try to add a "tough guy" who can add the odd goal for chump change.

AndreiM would be shipped out.


Again, if you're at the cap ceiling, you can make moves to clear up some space.
You call shipping out Markov an improvement? Too funny.....

The poster challenged you to state clearly what change you would have made and you come up with Moore, whining about the halak trade, acquiring a D (which is really not a priority for Montreal) and shipping out Markov and Hammer improvements???

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07-05-2010, 12:02 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Let's dissect your moves shall we..


Okay.


What if you don't get that return??..
If I understood your posts well, then you clearly think Halak is the better goalie of the two. So, if Gauthier couldn't get a stud D or top 6, what makes you think you'd be able too??..
And if Halak can't fetch you that, then certainly you won't think Price will bring you that (seeing as you think Halak is the better one)

So the question persists, what if you can't get that return?..

Well, if you re-signed Plek and sign Halak (he can go to arbitration so he'll likely won't get under 4M) + Auld, then you have about 2M left in cap room.
How do you suggest you re-signing your RFAs and filling up other holes??


What if Ellis asks for 2-2.5M???..He signed for 1.5M in TB with much cheaper taxes.
And who do you bring in to insulate your D exactly????..How much would that cost you??..
What if you can't find a taker for Hammer??..


Which tough guy can add the odd goal??..You think you'd be able to re-sign Plek, Halak+Auld or Price+Ellis+Solid top 3D+Trade Hammer and then re-sign Moore, add a guy like Armstrong at 3M??
Not to mention, this is without re-sign Lappy/Pouliot/Pyatt/Darche ( we had about 11M free before re-signing anybody)
Does your team also have an exceptionally higher cap room than every other team in the NHL too???...


For what return and what if you can't get more than a 2nd rounder?..
What if you couldn't find a top 6 to replace him?..you'd be creating a void on top 6.



Sure, you can make some moves. Doesn't mean you can do everything you want.

Stop living in lala land.
1. It was rumored that Price would get a higher return.

2. Also, what makes you think Gauthier did not have offers on the table for a top 6 winger but chose to pick Eller?

3. What makes you think that there was an offer for a top player but Gauthier needed to include a prospect or a pick?

4. Ellis did not ask for 2.5 so kill that noise.

5. You would find a taker for Hamr...the return wouldn't be great

If you want to deal with "what ifs"....then what if Pleks decided to take a huge hometown discount and signed for 3.5? What if Hamr retired? What if the Flyers offered Carter for Halak? What if What if? what if? what if? Nice try, but if you think the Habs were handcuffed from making moves....you're the one living in "la la land"

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07-05-2010, 12:04 AM
  #118
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You call shipping out Markov an improvement? Too funny.....

The poster challenged you to state clearly what change you would have made and you come up with Moore, whining about the halak trade, acquiring a D (which is really not a priority for Montreal) and shipping out Markov and Hammer improvements???
typo, I meant Kostitsyn.

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07-05-2010, 12:12 AM
  #119
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One trip to the ECF in 17 seasons and everybody is happy. What happened to the days when this team was the New York Yankees of hockey? Where did our pride go? When did we lay down and settle for mediocre teams?

And one more thing... Lars Eller. I see so many people saying he is an upgrade at center for the third line. Better than Moore, better than Metropolit. After seven NHL games? That's why NOBODY HERE had heard of him before he was traded to Montreal. He might be. I don't know, though. Neither do you. More speculation, more maybe.. if this, if that, if if if... if Pouliot puts it all together... if Kostitsyn pulls his thumb out of his arse, if Price plays like we all think he can, if the Habs stay healthy... if if if.

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07-05-2010, 12:16 AM
  #120
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Reading posts and replies on that thread makes you wanna cut your writs lol. No but really, it's almost worst than a depress movie on Canal Vie!

I know you're just trying to just state your point on some facts about if Habs got better or not Jaybee but man... You gotta get a hobby or change your mind, idk... You won't make it through the summer if all your replies represents your state of mind right now lol

On that, gnite

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07-05-2010, 12:24 AM
  #121
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One trip to the ECF in 17 seasons and everybody is happy. What happened to the days when this team was the New York Yankees of hockey? Where did our pride go? When did we lay down and settle for mediocre teams?

And one more thing... Lars Eller. I see so many people saying he is an upgrade at center for the third line. Better than Moore, better than Metropolit. After seven NHL games? That's why NOBODY HERE had heard of him before he was traded to Montreal. He might be. I don't know, though. Neither do you. More speculation, more maybe.. if this, if that, if if if... if Pouliot puts it all together... if Kostitsyn pulls his thumb out of his arse, if Price plays like we all think he can, if the Habs stay healthy... if if if.
many people in montreal dont know who magnus paajarvi svensson is
kthxbye

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07-05-2010, 12:27 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by SniperSquid View Post
Reading posts and replies on that thread makes you wanna cut your writs lol. No but really, it's almost worst than a depress movie on Canal Vie!

I know you're just trying to just state your point on some facts about if Habs got better or not Jaybee but man... You gotta get a hobby or change your mind, idk... You won't make it through the summer if all your replies represents your state of mind right now lol

On that, gnite
Seems like if you don't have the pack mentality here, then you don't belong and get told to "find a hobby" and "change your opinion". The gal of some of you.

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07-05-2010, 12:30 AM
  #123
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Seems like if you don't have the pack mentality here, then you don't belong and get told to "find a hobby" and "change your opinion". The gal of some of you.
Pffft... go support the St.Louis Blues and stop being so negative!

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07-05-2010, 12:40 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
1. It was rumored that Price would get a higher return.
How come??..you clearly think Halak is better. So, does that mean the rest of the NHL are all wrong in their assessment??..
And it also doesn't answer to how you would manage to re-sign the rest of our RFAs and fill the holes after signing Plek/Halak/Auld.
There would be close to no money available for a number of positions to fill.
If unloading Hamrlik is your ''solution'' to increase cap space, well you just weakened your D. So I hardly find that a solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
2. Also, what makes you think Gauthier did not have offers on the table for a top 6 winger but chose to pick Eller?
Why would Gauthier refuse an established top 6 for a player that he hopes can become a top 6??..Explain to me the logic in that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
3. What makes you think that there was an offer for a top player but Gauthier needed to include a prospect or a pick?
Who cares if there was one. If Gauthier refused, I'm guessing it's because it was an overpayment. But we don't know this, so really, what's the point in even entertaining the possibility??..I mean, we could speculate 10000000 different scenarios...what's the point??..

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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
4. Ellis did not ask for 2.5 so kill that noise.
And how much did he ask for?..I have a hard time believing he wanted 1.5M from us.

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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
5. You would find a taker for Hamr...the return wouldn't be great
So what's the point in trading him?..You will need to replace him with another top 3D. If that's the case, than you're looking at similar numbers. So it doesn't help you clear some cap.
If you don't replace him, then you just weakened your D.

And you telling me you would find a taker for Hamrlik is far from being reassuring.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
If you want to deal with "what ifs"....then what if Pleks decided to take a huge hometown discount and signed for 3.5? What if Hamr retired? What if the Flyers offered Carter for Halak? What if What if? what if? what if? Nice try, but if you think the Habs were handcuffed from making moves....you're the one living in "la la land"
What??..
Dude, you came up with an entirely speculative post. Saying you would do this and that as if everything you say would happen as so.
One could assume that nothing you said would actually happen, it holds as much water as you saying it would.
It's completely fictional.

The habs weren't handcuffed by making moves????..They had about 11M of cap room, with two great goalies to re-sign and their top center as well. On top of that, they had a handful of RFAs (Lappy/Darche/Pouliot/Pyatt) they want to keep.
If that's not being handcuffed than what is??..

Seriously buddy, drop it..

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Old
07-05-2010, 12:42 AM
  #125
sXe
Yuuuuuup!
 
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montreal
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Seems like if you don't have the pack mentality here, then you don't belong and get told to "find a hobby" and "change your opinion". The gal of some of you.
I'm with you Jaybee, I'm tired of being mediocre and I want to win. We can get to the Stanley Cup , just tell me what I can do to help and I'll do it!!

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