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MLD 2010 Assassination Thread

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Old
07-08-2010, 12:51 AM
  #51
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
“The 5-foot-7, 160-pound right winger fit right in and proved that he was NHL material with 14 goals and three assists in his initial campaign, more than respectable numbers over the 44-game schedule. The gritty little forward also picked up 42 penalty minutes, not taking kindly to opponents who took liberties, no matter their size.

In 1927-28, while playing alongside linemates Howie Morenz and Aurele Joliat, Gagné put up the biggest numbers of his career. The shifty but short-tempered forward found the twine behind enemy goaltenders 20 times that year, good for third on the team and sixth among all NHLers. Eleven assists stood him seventh in the league in that department and, with 75 minutes of penalty time, Gagné was also ranked among the league’s most penalized players.” – ourhistroy.canadiens.com
Good stuff!

I actually remember reading that now, but I guess it never sunk in.

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Old
07-08-2010, 01:15 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Good stuff!

I actually remember reading that now, but I guess it never sunk in.
Certainly not a power forward by ay stretch, but decent grit and aggressiveness I think.




I'm thinking about getting a membership to SIHR... should I?

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07-08-2010, 04:57 AM
  #53
seventieslord
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I'm thinking about getting a membership to SIHR... should I?
Surely, you jest. You know what answer I am going to give you!

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Old
07-08-2010, 01:07 PM
  #54
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
CAROLINA HURRICANES



Line 1: Geoff Courtnall - Alexei Yashin - Russ Courtnall
Line 2: Ray Whitney - Mike Ridley (A) - Vincent Lukac
Line 3: Martin Gelinas - Bob Carpenter - Dave Trottier
Line 4: Ted Irvine - Mike Fisher - Roxy Beaudro
Extras: Mark Napier

D 1: Jyrki Lumme - Jeff Beukeboom (A)
D 2: Bruce Driver (C) - Mike O'Connell
D 3: Barry Gibbs - Sylvain Cote
Extras: Bob Murdoch

G 1: Pete Peeters
G 2: Tomas Vokoun
Extras: Flat Walsh

Coach: Peter Laviolette

PP 1: Whitney - Yashin - Lukac - Lumme - O'Connell
PP 2: G. Courtnall - Ridley - R. Courtnall - Driver - Cote

PK 1: Beaudro - Fisher - Driver - Beukeboom
PK 2: Trottier - Carpenter - O'Connell - Cote
Forwards

-You have a first line where I actually saw every player who played.... Yashin is what he is. At his best, he was a legit Hart finalist and led the Senators to a major upset win over the Devils in the series that ended the Lemaire-era in NJ. At his worst, he only cared about money and, you know, you don't get paid for the playoffs. He's definitely talented enough to play on a MLD scoring line (indeed, he's probably one of the most talented players in this), but he also comes with a lot of negatives. Surround him with guys with character, and he could be a real asset.

-I was never a fan of the Courtnalls when they played. I saw a couple of guys who skated really fast and shot a lot, but lacked creativity and and weren't really that skilled other than their speed. Neither one was ever top 10 in any overall scoring category, unless you include shots on goal. Playing on the same line, they should get many breakaways a game, and convert on about 5% of them. They do add a bit more than just fast skating and taking lots of shots - Geoff brings sandpaper and Russ was decent defensively. I'd complain that there is no playmaker on this line (Yashin was primarily a goal scoring center), but the Courtnalls don't really use a playmaker to skate really fast and take lots of shots.

-Whitney has made an NHL career of being a complimentary playmaking LW to goal scoring centers. We were strongly considering him to flank Zabrodsky, before deciding to go with Hextall's grit. Ridley was a fine two-way player, but his offense is nothing all that special. (Hovering around a point per game in the 80s was pretty common for scoring-line centers). I'll admit that I know less about Lukac than I should, other than he won the Golden Stick after Czechoslovakian hockey had started to decline, and that he was known as a great goal scorer in his home league. I can see him being the main shooter on a MLD second line. This line seems a bit lacking in the physical department, though.

- Bobby Carpenter is a great third liner for the MLD - once a 50 goal scorer, reinvented himself as a faceoff and defensive specialist late in his career. A favorite of Jacques Lemaire (as coach). Dave Trottier is an excellent third liner - very good defensively, and finished 6th in scoring once. I thought he was a left wing, though. Gelinas is a great character guy who can bring clutch scoring. He's an ideal 4th liner in this, but is adequate on a third line.

-I'm not sure if Mike Fischer deserves to be selected in the MLD, but he does have the skillset to play on a 4th line. Irvine adds grit. Beaudro was apparently an excellent defensive player in his era, but doesn't sound like he'll bring much offense. It works as a line.

Defense

-I'm a big fan of the big guy Beukeboom (one of the best and most appropriate hockey names ever). Is he talented enough for a top pairing? I'm not sure. He's the perfect guy to go next to an offensive defenseman like Leetch (or in the MLD, someone like Brian Campbell or Dick Redmond). Lumme fits the mold of offensive defenseman, I'm just not sure how good his offense actually is. I just checked, and Lumme was a spare in MLD10, not selected in MLD11 or the MLD portion of ATD12. What makes him good enough to play top pairing minutes?

-Kudos for taking Driver and making him captain. I'm not sure if he's ever been taken at the MLD level before, but I think he's worthy. Good all-round dman and now that I think about it, he's not out of place on a second pair. Not Scott Stevens in the leadership department, but I think he can captain a team on this level. O'Connell seems like a prototypical 2nd pairing puck mover who doesn't neglect his own end. I'd call this a good puck-moving pair that doesn't neglect its own zone.

-Cote is a decent two-way defenseman, but I think you realize now that while he'll provide some offense, he's nothing special in that regards. Gibbs has never been picked at the MLD level before, but his LOH bio talks of him like a good defensive defenseman who was Minnesota's best player in a playoff run, so I can buy him on a bottom pair.

Goaltending and coaching
-Peeters is an above average starter in this, and he seems to have had quite a few decent, but not great, playoff runs. Vokoun is a very good backup - there are major questions about him in the playoffs, but that's why he's a backup.

Some might say that Laviolette is not ready, but I'm not one of them. For my money, he's the 2nd best post-lockout coach after Mike Babcock. One of the most aggressive coaches in this thing - in terms of playing offensively, physically, and doing whatever necessary to... ahem... draw penalties.

Special Teams

-Once again, I don't know anything about Lukac's physical game. Can he be the net presences on the first PP? Other than that, your PP is solid all-round with no real standouts, but no other weaknesses.

-I don't like Driver on a first PK pair. He can kill penalties, but was more of a PP guy in his career than a PK guy. I'm not sure who should take his place - you seem to have placed a bit emphasis on points production when drafting your defensemen, which leaves you a bit deficient in natural PKers. Maybe Gibbs? His bio describes him as a defensive defenseman.

-Switch Carpenter and Fischer. Carpenter is much more accomplished in an all-time sense than Fischer - he was Jacques Lemaire's go-to guy in every defensive situation for a number of years in NJ.

Overall
You seemed to place a lot of emphasis on points over the course of a career when you drafted your forwards. That's fine - guys who can consistently produce points for a long period of time are very useful - on this level, you can count on them to steadily chip-in points for you. I'm just worried that you have an apparent lack of gamebreaking offensive talent (as indicated by top 10s in scoring or the fact that I've seen many of these players) - guys who can break open a game by themselves. Yashin is an offensive gamebreaker.... when he wants to be. But I wouldn't want him to be my only guy like this. Can Lukac be an offensive gamebreaker? He led the CSSR league in goals twice in the era of Martinec, Novy, and Hlinka, and won a golden stick after the CSSR league was clearly in decline (the 70s players were finished and guys like Stastny were in North America). How did he do in international play?

My other concern is a lack of true shutdown ability by your defensemen, past Beukeboom.

I really like the mix of players on your 3rd and 4th lines, though I do wonder whether Fischer is ready.

Info requested: Lukac's international resume and whether he was physical. Why Lumme deserves to be on a top pairing.

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Old
07-08-2010, 01:12 PM
  #55
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If you haven't reviewed any teams, just do so. Reviews don't have to be the longwinded affairs that I make them. Just make a few quick comments about players you are familiar with if you don't have the time or inclination for more.

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Old
07-08-2010, 01:37 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Head Coach: Marc Crawford
Assistant Coach: Brian Kilrea

Nikolai Drozdetsky - Josef Malecek - Carson Cooper
Tony McKegney - Nicklas Backstrom - Blaine Stoughton
Bob Kelly - George Gee - Pat Flatley
Steve Konowalchuk - Keith Acton - Don Saleski
Murph Chamberlain

Paul Shmyr - Dmitri Yushkevich
Doug Bodger - Lee Fogolin Sr.
Sergei Babinov - Fred Lake
Rick Smith

Kirk McLean
Marc-Andre Fleury

PP1: Drozdetsky-Malecek-Cooper-Shmyr-Bodger
PP2: McKegney-Backstrom-Stoughton-Babinov-Lake
PK1: Kelly-Gee-Yushkevich-Fogolin
PK2: Konowalchuk-Acton-Shmyr-Lake
- I don't like Crawford as a MLD coach. He had early success on a very good team and has followed that up with over a decade of mediocrity. His systems are terrible
- Kilrea on the other hand is a very good assistant in this
- McLean is a fine starter, no problems there
- Fleury is either very good or very bad, but he's a fine low-end backup
- The defence is unspectular aside from Shymr, but well-balanced. I'm not sure Yushkevich should see top-pairing minutes
- The issues with Malecek have been covered.
- I like Drozdetsky, he's first line talent although perhaps not first line career
- I'd prefer to see Backstrom in a top-6 role in the AAA, but I think he's acceptable in this role.
- Stoughton is a great guy to have on a second line
- George Gee is a question mark defensively. It's been assumed before he was a good defensive player, but there's little evidence
- Flatley and Kelly will be very frustrating to play against on the bottom 6
- The fourth line is also an effective checking unit

Overall, I don't see this team lighting it up, but they won't be easy to play against. With some of the checking personnel on the team, it may have made more sense for a better defensive coach.

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Old
07-08-2010, 01:44 PM
  #57
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
- I don't like Crawford as a MLD coach. He had early success on a very good team and has followed that up with over a decade of mediocrity. His systems are terrible
Crawford is an interesting case. For a couple of years, he was considered one of the best coaches in the league. Jack Adams in 94-95. Stanley Cup in 1996. Chosen as Canada's head coach in the 1998 Olympics (where the team disappointed and he was unable to motivate them to play the Bronze medal game). Colorado really wanted him back in 1998, but he wanted to move on and "accept a new challenge." Was he just a product of the Avalanche roster? At first, it seemed no, as he helped lead a Vancouver turnaround. But then things went sour.

Quote:
Overall, I don't see this team lighting it up, but they won't be easy to play against. With some of the checking personnel on the team, it may have made more sense for a better defensive coach.
Crawford is definitely a run-and-gun coach. Maybe it was just a bad fit for the dead-puck era?

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Old
07-08-2010, 02:31 PM
  #58
MadArcand
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Posting via cell from hospital, so I can't address everything, nor can I address it in depth, but:
- Fisher's resume is imo no worse than Kesler's, actually I'd say it's better
- to me, Lumme always was a lesser but comparable version of Johansson and Numminen, both ATDers
- Lukac wasn't really physical in MLD sense, but no Czechoslovak player of that time really was. By local standards, he could be mean. More importantly, he was exceptional goalscorer. I'll try to get back to his case once I'm back home.

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Old
07-08-2010, 04:55 PM
  #59
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Skipjacks review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chigurh View Post
Baltimore Skipjacks


General Managers: Chigurh & Velociraptor
Coach: Red Berenson
Captain: Orest Kindrachuk
Assistant Captains: Andrei Markov, Kelly Miller


Anton Stastny - Erich Kuhnhackl - Marian Stastny
Eric Vail - Dave Gagner - Dave Christian
Kelly Miller (A) - Jaroslav Holik - Chico Maki
Curt Fraser - Orest Kindrachuk (C) - Doug Brown
Spares: Mike Krushelnyski, Anze Kopitar

Andrei Markov (A) - Darius Kasparaitis
Jeff Brown - Kent Douglas
Dave Ellett - Arnie Brown
Spares: Bryan Berard

Riley Hern
Johnny Mowers

PP1: Anton Stastny - Erich Kuhnhackl - Marian Stastny
Andrei Markov - Jeff Brown

PP2: Eric Vail - Dave Gagner - Dave Christian
Dave Ellett - Arnie Brown

PK1: Kelly Miller - Jaroslav Holik
Darius Kasparaitis - Kent Douglas

PK2: Chico Maki - Orest Kindrachuk
Andrei Markov - Arnie Brown
First line
-The lesser Stastnys were very good, not great players in the NHL. Anton defected when he was 21, so I think what he did in the Czech league is basically irrelevant. His NHL career makes him passable as a scoring line player, not ideal. Marian was probably past his prime when he defected, but by all accounts, Anton was the least talented Stastny, so I'd say Marian is probably good enough to play here and play well.

This is what Pelletier says about Kuhnhackl:

The good:
Quote:
Kühnhackl almost single-handedly kept Germany in the Olympic "A" pool.
Quote:
As with all International stars who never had a chance to excel in the National Hockey League, the true test comes in the Olympic Games, a test in which Kühnhackl excelled. He participated in three Olympic games. The first Games was in 1976 and Kühnhackl's 5 goals and 10 points helped Germany to surprisingly capture the Bronze Medal. It was the last Olympic medal Germany achieved in hockey. The only other medal the country received was a Bronze in 1932. Kühnhackl was the highest scoring non-Soviet player in a tournament easily won by the Red Army.
The bad:
Quote:
Critics suggest the German league was quite inferior to other European leagues, and that Kuhnhackl's WC and Olympic totals were padded by scoring points against weak nationis.

Its debatable if Kühnhackl could have played in the NHL. He most likely wouldn't have dominated like he did in Germany, but he had the size and skill to be a good NHL forward.
He's a question mark at this level, but his size (6'5, 220 lbs) and willingness to play a tough makes him an effective glue guy at this level IMO, even if his offense is a question mark.

I like this line's chemistry a lot, by the way.

Other forwards
-2nd line has 3 players who were consistent scorers in the high-scoring 80s. No overall top 10s in goals, assists, or points on the line indicates a lack of gamebreaking offense to me. This line should be able to grind out some goals, though, as both Vail and Gagner were gritty players.

-Interesting mix of players on your 3rd line. Jaroslav Holik's skating is an issue, but nobody can deny his goalscoring or his drive to win. I researched him a lot during my run on Czech players in the main draft, and I see nothing about him being a good defensive player. But if you are looking for a high energy player who loves to go to the net to get goals, he's a great fit for a lower line. Kelly was good defensively, and had a playmaking touch as checkers go. Maki was a fine two-way player.

-Kindrachuk was a very good defensive player and decent playmaker. Doug Brown was an underrated defensive forward and penalty killer on very good late 90s Red Wings team. Fraser was a solid grinder. If you switched Fraser with Kelly, this would be a very good shut-down line and your 3rd line would be a very good high energy line. As it is, you have two lines that serve a mixed purpose, which is fine.

Defense

-Seems like a lot of GMs went with 3 pairs of puck movers with defensive studs and this team is no exception.

-Very good top pair. Markov has been the 6th-10th best defenseman in the NHL for a number of years now. Great puck mover and PP QB. He doesn't have the peak of some other MLD defensemen, but he's been consistently good. He's playing next to the disease of Kaspiritus - such an ahole, but a very good defensive defenseman. Ask Mario Lemieux or Eric Lindros what it's like to play against Kaspiritus.

-We really wanted Jeff Brown... badly. One of the better RH-shot PP defensemen in the MLD. Instead we had to settle for Olausson, a slightly lesser version of Brown. Brown was prone to defensive errors at times, though I don't think he was ever really a liability. And he's playing next to a very steady defenseman.

-I remember Ellett as a guy who was above average defensive, below average defensively. He's playing next to a guy in Brown, who is probably the reverse. Harry Howell's partner during Howell's Norris season.

Goaltending and coaching

-It's hard to compare early goaltenders to more modern ones. But Riley Hern is pretty clearly the most accomplished goaltender in the MLD. And if more accomplished mean "best," then you have the best goaltender in the MLD. He would have been our first round pick, too.

-Mowers is a "what-if" case. 3 full seasons in the NHL, ending with a 1st Team All Star (over Brimsek and Broda!) and Stanley Cup in 42-43. Then he went off to war and never got his game back together after he got back. His upside is huge if Hern were to get injured. But he never proved himself to be able to put together a string of good seasons, so I have to think he's a bit of a question mark. And if there's any knock on Hern, it's that we just don't know if he can handle a heavy regular season workload, so I would have preferred a backup who was more proven over the longhall. In the playoffs, though, Hern's your guy.

-I don't know how to rate Berenson. 3 seasons coached in the NHL, with one Jack Adams, and no playoff success. But he was a great college coach for a really long time.

Special teams
-Excellent first PP. According to Pelletier, a high % of Anton's goals were on the PP, so any questions on whether he's good enough don't really apply on the PP. Probably the best pair of pointmen in the draft.

-2nd PP is not as good. As I said before, the forwards are going to get a lot of "tough" points, but Gagner is pretty subpar as an offensive catalyst in an all-time sense (no top 10s in any overall scoring category). Ellett is okay at the point, nothing special. Brown is really below par for a PP pointman - do you have any forwards who can play the point? I might try to get Jaroslav Holik out there - I feel like he'd be great in front of the net (though Vail can also fill that role). Not sure who he'd replace.

-Your PK defensemen are very good.

-Like I said, I never read anything about Jaroslav Holik's defensive ability. I question whether someone that slow could effectively kill penalties. Miller's legendsofhockey profile indicates that he was excellent at faceoffs, even though he played LW. Swap out Holik for Brown and you'd have a pretty good PK all-round.

Overall
-I love your mix of defensemen (I'd love it even moreso if you could get a forward to take Arnie Brown's place on the PP).
-Hern has my vote for best goalie in the draft, though I'd prefer it if he had a backup with a longer record of consistent play to spell him in the regular season if he needs it.
-Good mix of forwards on the bottom lines; just don't try to sell Holik as a defensive player (unless you know something I don't; always possible ).
-My biggest concern is the lack of proven NHL gamebreakers in the scoring lines. Anton Stastny is the only guy who finished top 10 in an overall scoring category (finishing 8th once). But Marion (past his prime when he defected) was reportedly better than Anton, so I'm not that concerned about your top line. I do wish we had more info about how Kuhnhackl did against the "good" international teams, though.

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Old
07-08-2010, 06:03 PM
  #60
Dreakmur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Rolston would be a very good 3rd liner.... as a winger. I know he's listed as a guy who can play all 3 forward positions, but he was never very good as a center in NJ (really only used as an injury replacement), and Colorado never used him at center for obvious reasons. How much did he play center in Minnesota? I think he's a guy who is much better at wing, where he can use his biggest asset - his speed. If you can show me he played center regularly and successfully in Minnesota, I'd change my mind. He's a guy who can play center if needed, but there's a difference between being able to do something and doing it well.
Rolston actually didn't play too much center in Minnestoa - about 1/3 of his time. He did however play almost entirely center in Boston.

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07-08-2010, 06:06 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Rolston actually didn't play too much center in Minnestoa - about 1/3 of his time. He did however play almost entirely center in Boston.
So for 4 years of his career, he was a center. How much of his Selke record was during this time? (And do you have any stats on his faceoff percentages?)

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07-08-2010, 07:10 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chigurh View Post

PP1: Anton Stastny - Erich Kuhnhackl - Marian Stastny
Andrei Markov - Jeff Brown

PP2: Eric Vail - Dave Gagner - Dave Christian
Dave Ellett - Arnie Brown

PK1: Kelly Miller - Jaroslav Holik
Darius Kasparaitis - Kent Douglas

PK2: Chico Maki - Orest Kindrachuk
Andrei Markov - Arnie Brown
I'm surprised you'd draft Kent Douglas and not put him on the power play. He had a great shot and moved the puck well for a defenceman of his era. He spent a couple of years as Toronto's power play quarterback, in a time when only the best offensive defencemen ran the power play.

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Old
07-08-2010, 10:23 PM
  #63
Dreakmur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
So for 4 years of his career, he was a center. How much of his Selke record was during this time? (And do you have any stats on his faceoff percentages?)
Based on face-off totals, here's what I came up with.... and his position is listed beside his Selke totals.

10th(1998) – Not likely much C
5th(2002) -- C
10th(2003) -- C
14th(2004) – C
10th(2006) – RW mostly, but some C (about 1/3 of the time)
16th(2007) – RW mostly , but some C (about 1/3 of the time)

Even when he was a center, he wasn't great on face-offs. He was usually average or slightly below average.

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07-08-2010, 11:50 PM
  #64
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Regina review

Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Regina Capitals

GM: Seventieslord
Coach: Viktor Tikhonov

Chris Drury (A) - Herb Jordan - Leo Labine
Slava Kozlov - Cal Gardner - Wally Hergesheimer
Jaroslav Jirik - Ted Hampson (A) - Bob MacMillan
Andre Boudrias (A) - Jason Arnott - Grant Warwick

Robyn Regehr - Wade Redden
Al Arbour (C) - Bryan McCabe
Larry Hillman - Hugh Bolton

Don Edwards
Billy Nicholson

Spares:
Frank Rankin (F)
George Richardson (LW)
Lou Fontinato (D)

PP1:
Kozlov-Jordan-Hergesheimer
McCabe-Redden

PP2:
Jirik-Gardner-Warwick
McCabe-MacMillan

PK1:
Hampson-MacMillan
Regehr-Arbour

PK2:
Drury-Boudrias
Redden-Hillman

Minutes chart:

MacMillan 18
Jordan 17
Drury 16
Kozlov 16
Hergesheimer 16
Gardner 15
Hampson 15
Jirik 14
Labine 13
Boudrias 13
Warwick 13
Arnott 10

Redden 25
McCabe 22
Regehr 22
Arbour 19
Hillman 16
Bolton 13

1916 or earlier: Jordan, Rankin, Nicholson, Richardson
1917-1942: Warwick
1943-1965: Labine, Gardner, Hergesheimer, Jirik, Hampson, Boudrias, Arbour, Hillman, Bolton, Fontinato
1966-1979: MacMillan, Edwards, Tikhonov
1980-1994: Kozlov, Arnott
1995-2004: Drury, McCabe, Redden, Regehr
in 2010: Drury, McCabe, Redden, Regehr

Temporary mini-bios/reasoning:
Hergesheimer: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=536
Gardner: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=550
MacMillan: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=642
Jirik: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=644
Hampson: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=762
Warwick: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=762
Hillman: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=762
Arnott: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=762
Boudrias: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=848
Nicholson: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=849
Bolton: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=865
Rankin: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=865
Richardson: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=947
Fontinato: http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=950

The bottom links are included to help you assess my players for assassination purposes. but for ranking purposes, I'll have full bios up and ready to go.
Forwards
-Herb Jordan is a brilliant goal-scoring center, who may have been a good playmaker, as well. I read his bio, and believe he's one of the best first liners in this. Still, I would feel a lot better if he had a playmaking winger alongside him. Neither Labine or Drury is one. Lebine oozes intangibles and toughness, but I'm not sure he's good enough offensively to go on a scoring line. 15th-20th place finishes don't impress me so much in a 6 team league, where there are only 18 spots on a first line. I realize Drury was the highest drafted player in ATD12 not drafted in ATD2010, but I remember the pick in ATD12, and it was a major reach. The man is loaded with intangibles, just like Lebine, though not toughness. I don't like him on a top line at all, not even on this level. He was never a first line forward in his career; he was always the guy who played on the 2nd or 3rd line and took advantage of this to score clutch points in the playoffs. Having Drury on your top line could really hurt you in the regular season. Drury and Lebine could also use a playmaker between them (Drury was more of a goal scorer even when playing center), and I'm not sure if Jordan is one, unless you take his leading his league with a grand total of 4 as significant.

-Cal Gardner is an okay 2nd line center. He brings a good amount of intangibles, to go along with some offense. I can definitely buy him as the 3rd most talented member of a scoring line. But is he? Hergesheimer had a short, but very good career. One of the best goal scoring wings on a second line in the draft. Definitely better offensively than either of your top line wings. Kozlov was a really consistent player with underrated defensive ability, but he was only top 20 in a scoring category once (17th in assists). Great shootout player (are there shootouts in the MLD?) Kozlov's playmaking might help the top line if you switched him and Drury, but I don't think he was any more talented. Either way, Hergesheimer will have to carry a pretty big part of the offensive load for this line, at least in the regular season.

-Overall, you seemed to place a big emphasis on playoff performance, grit, and intangibles on the top two lines, at some expense to offensive talent.

-Just like I'd expect from any 70s team, the lower lines are very good. MacMillan is one of the great two-way third liners at the MLD level. The fact that he was also very good at faceoffs means that Hampson can cheat and not have to worry about getting kicked out. Sampson is another good two-way player. I don't know if Jirik brings anything defensively, but he brings energy, trash talk, and the ability to park himself in front of the net. He seems like an ideal third liner in this. I'm not sure how he meshes on a two-way line.

-Boudrias is a pest who can create plays from the wing on a 4th liner. Arnott is everything I would want from a 4th line energy player at this level - he also had a huge slapshot. Warwick seems like a good tough 4th liner, though his LOH profile describes him as a penalty liability, at least early in his career.

Defense
-Such a modern defense for a 70s team. Let me be the first to (unfairly?) malign Redden. I realize he's one of the most talented defensemen in the MLD, but I don't like him as a #1. He was never on the shut down pair in Ottawa, instead carrying the 2nd pair with his puck moving ability. I think this is the best role for him in the MLD. He's more talented than many top pairing guys, but I don't know if it's the best role for him. Regehr is solid. Big, defensive defenseman who was a good enough skater to be selected by Canada to play on the big ice.

-Al Arbour was a journeyman in the O6 days, then found his niche in St. Louis, where he might have the best defensive peak of any defenseman in the draft for a few short years. Great leader too. He's a very good partner for McCabe, who has the talent to play on a 2nd pair.

-Hillman is a solid #5 with a winning pedigree and Bolton was huge and solid. Both can chip in points too. Very good bottom pair, maybe the best in the draft.

-Question: Who do you plan on using as your shutdown pair? Definitely not the pair with McCabe on it. Do we trust Redden to play a role he never had to do in real life? You could always swap Arbour and Redden. Personally, I think Redden/McCabe would work just fine (Redden was very good defensively from the second pair in Ottawa), but other GMs might not like it.

Spares: (because I know all 3 guys)
-Rankin was the top of our list for an offensive-minded forward. You jerk. Richardson and Rankin might be redundant, but they both deserved to be picked. You can't go wrong with HOFers as spares in the MLD. They were amateurs... and? Is there any evidence the amateur leagues were that much worse than the pros pre-1916? Personally, I think that no HOFer should ever slip below the MLD.

-15 other teams missed out on Lou Fontinato. The guy really deserves top 6 time.

Goaltending and coaching
-Don Edwards is one of a handful of goalies who has a case to be the 2nd best goalie in the draft. He doesn't quite have Kiprusoff's peak, but has more seasons near the top of the league (so far). Nicholson is definitely going to play some games behind Edwards, though, and I know almost nothing about him.

-Viktor Tikhonov, the best tactician and most accomplished coach in the MLD by a good margin. Also, a merciless dictator who thought nothing about destroying Drozdetsky's career after they had a feud (does anyone know what about?) He's a great coach, but what will he think of notoriously moody players like Redden and Arnott? I'm starting to think that both the Soviet coaches should always be paired with North American players' coach types as their assistants, to answer questions about how their temperaments would interact with North American primadonna types.

Special teams
-your two most talented goal scorers are on the first unit (Jordan and Herg). Herg was known as a "garbageman," so he should work well here. Kozlov is an okay playmaker. Pointmen are excellent.

-I like Jirik's net presence on the 2nd unit. Warwick and Gardiner also have grit. This seems like a "go to the net" type of unit. I just noticed McCabe is playing the whole PP. I think he can handle that, along with 2nd pair unit.

-You always have the option of putting Arnott on the point of the PP, as the designated shooter. He had this role in NJ (playing next to Rafalski), and that team led the NHL in PP% in 00-01.

-Excellent 1st PK unit. The fact that both forwards can take faceoffs is a huge asset.

-Some might question Redden on the 2nd PK unit, but I think he can do it, so long as Hillman can handle crease-clearing duties.

Overall
-Top 2 lines are loaded with grit and both are better than average defensively. Past Jordan and Herg, there seems to be a bit of a lack of offensive punch, however. Also, the first line's playmaking is questionable (depending on what you make of the sparse assist stats we have for Jordan's career).

-3rd and 4th lines are very good, though I wonder what agitator Jirik is doing on a designated two-way line (educate me).

-Very well balanced defense, though with 2 questions. First, I question whether Redden has the temperament (not talent) to be a #1 in this. Also, whether he will be able to handle a shutdown role (though he was very good defensively on the 2nd pair during his prime).

-Edwards is certainly a top 5 goaltender in the draft. I know nothing about his backup.

-Tikhonov is the best coach in this, period. But how will he handle guys like Redden and Arnott?

-This team just oozes leadership. When Lebine and Hampson aren't even wearing letters, you know your team isn't lacking in character guys.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 07-08-2010 at 11:59 PM.
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Old
07-09-2010, 02:02 AM
  #65
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TDMM: Regarding Redden, it's not accurate to say he was "He was never on the shut down pair in Ottawa, instead carrying the 2nd pair with his puck moving ability." You've described his role from 2002-03 on, once Chara had come into his own. But from 1998-99 to 2000-01, Redden was Ottawa's #1 defenceman, playing on the top pairing against the toughest competition. And in 2001-02 Redden spent much of the year with Chara on Ottawa's top pairing in Chara's first year in Ottawa.

While Ottawa's defensive corps at the time was short on big names, Ottawa was among the best teams in the league over this time, both overall and in goal prevention, so Redden wasn't a "Rick Green in Washington #1".

Redden was also the #1 defenceman on Ottawa's very strong penalty kill over this three year period, and always killed penalties in Ottawa right from his rookie season. It seems a bit much that anyone would question his ability to kill penalties (although I know you said you were OK with it.)

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07-09-2010, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
TDMM: Regarding Redden, it's not accurate to say he was "He was never on the shut down pair in Ottawa, instead carrying the 2nd pair with his puck moving ability." You've described his role from 2002-03 on, once Chara had come into his own. But from 1998-99 to 2000-01, Redden was Ottawa's #1 defenceman, playing on the top pairing against the toughest competition. And in 2001-02 Redden spent much of the year with Chara on Ottawa's top pairing in Chara's first year in Ottawa.

While Ottawa's defensive corps at the time was short on big names, Ottawa was among the best teams in the league over this time, both overall and in goal prevention, so Redden wasn't a "Rick Green in Washington #1".

Redden was also the #1 defenceman on Ottawa's very strong penalty kill over this three year period, and always killed penalties in Ottawa right from his rookie season. It seems a bit much that anyone would question his ability to kill penalties (although I know you said you were OK with it.)
You obviously know more about Ottawa than I do.

Honestly, I was thinking of the time later on when Chara paired with another defenseman on Ottawa's top pair and Redden carried the play on the 2nd pair - similar to how Scott Niedermayer was used in NJ.

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07-09-2010, 05:37 AM
  #67
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Thank you, I always thoroughly enjoy your reviews.

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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Forwards
-Herb Jordan is a brilliant goal-scoring center, who may have been a good playmaker, as well. I read his bio, and believe he's one of the best first liners in this. Still, I would feel a lot better if he had a playmaking winger alongside him. Neither Labine or Drury is one. Lebine oozes intangibles and toughness, but I'm not sure he's good enough offensively to go on a scoring line. 15th-20th place finishes don't impress me so much in a 6 team league, where there are only 18 spots on a first line. I realize Drury was the highest drafted player in ATD12 not drafted in ATD2010, but I remember the pick in ATD12, and it was a major reach. The man is loaded with intangibles, just like Lebine, though not toughness. I don't like him on a top line at all, not even on this level. He was never a first line forward in his career; he was always the guy who played on the 2nd or 3rd line and took advantage of this to score clutch points in the playoffs. Having Drury on your top line could really hurt you in the regular season. Drury and Lebine could also use a playmaker between them (Drury was more of a goal scorer even when playing center), and I'm not sure if Jordan is one, unless you take his leading his league with a grand total of 4 as significant.
I think Jordan is the only forward in this draft for whom a good HHOF case can be made.

As for his playmaking, no, I don't think his 4 assists in one season mean much; however, over the multi-year sample size, he looks pretty good compared to Russell Bowie. I think in a case like this, it is a fair way to look at it. I do indeed count on him to be the talent of the line, the best goalscorer and playmaker. There is numerical evidence to support it, and it can also be inferred by the fact that he was that talented. (i.e. it is unlikely that he was this prodigious at scoring goals but a bad playmaker)

Labine and Drury are there to provide everything that is a question mark for Jordan - toughness, defense, and playoff capabilities. (Labine, of course, is an extreme in the toughness department, bringing true meanness, intimidation, and agitation) I realize Labine isn't a star, but at the same time, top-20 seasons don't grow on trees in the MLD, and having four of them, even in the O6, is a great accomplishment at this point. Considering he's a glue guy here, he's fine.

Quote:
-Cal Gardner is an okay 2nd line center. He brings a good amount of intangibles, to go along with some offense. I can definitely buy him as the 3rd most talented member of a scoring line. But is he? Hergesheimer had a short, but very good career. One of the best goal scoring wings on a second line in the draft. Definitely better offensively than either of your top line wings. Kozlov was a really consistent player with underrated defensive ability, but he was only top 20 in a scoring category once (17th in assists). Great shootout player (are there shootouts in the MLD?) Kozlov's playmaking might help the top line if you switched him and Drury, but I don't think he was any more talented. Either way, Hergesheimer will have to carry a pretty big part of the offensive load for this line, at least in the regular season.
I realize Gardner's not the greatest 2nd line center, but he is average. He doesn't have to be the 3rd-most talented player on the line for it to be good. (for what it's worth, I have all three of these guys pretty close, Gardner likes to pass, Hergy shoots, and Kozlov lacks elite finishes but has a ton of good seasons which, percentage wise, are as good as anything these two did)

And to my knowledge, we play by current rules, so yes, there should be shootouts.

Quote:
-Overall, you seemed to place a big emphasis on playoff performance, grit, and intangibles on the top two lines, at some expense to offensive talent.
Sort of. I tried to get complementary skillsets as often as possible, so that nothing was lacking. Drury was the perfect guy to complete line 1, with his clutch play and defense. Gardner was the perfect guy to complete the 2nd line with his size, toughness, and playmaking.

Quote:
-Just like I'd expect from any 70s team, the lower lines are very good. MacMillan is one of the great two-way third liners at the MLD level. The fact that he was also very good at faceoffs means that Hampson can cheat and not have to worry about getting kicked out. Sampson is another good two-way player. I don't know if Jirik brings anything defensively, but he brings energy, trash talk, and the ability to park himself in front of the net. He seems like an ideal third liner in this. I'm not sure how he meshes on a two-way line.
He was a tough, fiery aggressive player and the bio I just posted indicates that he has some defensive worth.

Regardless, I wasn't expecting to find those two quotes, they were a bonus. Truth is, MacMillan and Hampson are a great enough duo, and like I've always said, you don't need three identical players on a line. You can complete a strong 3rd line with just about anyone who's not one-dimensional. I really liked Jirik's toughness, goalscoring, agitation, simple game (just go to the net), and big game experience to go with these gentlemanly, playmaking, versatile guys who spent a lot of time on bad teams and didn't play many playoff games. I think it was just a perfect mix of talents.

Quote:
-Boudrias is a pest who can create plays from the wing on a 4th liner. Arnott is everything I would want from a 4th line energy player at this level - he also had a huge slapshot. Warwick seems like a good tough 4th liner, though his LOH profile describes him as a penalty liability, at least early in his career.
You will soon find Boudrias is massively underrated. the guy should be a 2nd/3rd liner in the MLD from now on. Wait'll you see his bio! He is easily my favourite pick and I couldn't have chosen a more perfect finish to that line. (search career LW assist leaders, sort by per-game, look where he ranks, then try to find some other undrafted players on that list)

I actually was unaware of Warwick's toughness, I just saw him as too good a goalscorer to pass up. I found a quote just the other night from Frank Boucher calling him a tough little fire hydrant, and "War On Ice" talks about how intense he was in the Team Canada games, so this is all a bonus for me. His PIMs were actually really low. So maybe he just took bad penalties?

Quote:
Defense
-Such a modern defense for a 70s team. Let me be the first to (unfairly?) malign Redden. I realize he's one of the most talented defensemen in the MLD, but I don't like him as a #1. He was never on the shut down pair in Ottawa, instead carrying the 2nd pair with his puck moving ability. I think this is the best role for him in the MLD. He's more talented than many top pairing guys, but I don't know if it's the best role for him. Regehr is solid. Big, defensive defenseman who was a good enough skater to be selected by Canada to play on the big ice.
I have to stick by this one. Redden has to be one of the three best defensemen in the draft. And he's easily my best defenseman. He should and will get #1 minutes. It could also be argued that the caliber of player he faces in this draft nightly is lower than what he was used to in his prime (his norris record and icetime history - based on minutes and for which team - are the best in this draft)

Quote:
-Al Arbour was a journeyman in the O6 days, then found his niche in St. Louis, where he might have the best defensive peak of any defenseman in the draft for a few short years. Great leader too. He's a very good partner for McCabe, who has the talent to play on a 2nd pair.

-Hillman is a solid #5 with a winning pedigree and Bolton was huge and solid. Both can chip in points too. Very good bottom pair, maybe the best in the draft.

-Question: Who do you plan on using as your shutdown pair? Definitely not the pair with McCabe on it. Do we trust Redden to play a role he never had to do in real life? You could always swap Arbour and Redden. Personally, I think Redden/McCabe would work just fine (Redden was very good defensively from the second pair in Ottawa), but other GMs might not like it.
Ideally, Regehr and Arbour would be the shutdown pair, but can they move the puck well enough as a pair? Right now I have a solid puckmoving presence on each pairing so I can't change that. I have no concerns about Redden's defense; he has always been extremely solid. Tough? not really, but Regehr is. (I could see some GMs thinking McCabe/Redden is a nightmare pairing)

[
Quote:
U]Spares:[/U] (because I know all 3 guys)
-Rankin was the top of our list for an offensive-minded forward. You jerk. Richardson and Rankin might be redundant, but they both deserved to be picked. You can't go wrong with HOFers as spares in the MLD. They were amateurs... and? Is there any evidence the amateur leagues were that much worse than the pros pre-1916? Personally, I think that no HOFer should ever slip below the MLD.
I am beginning to think the same thing; compare Rankin/Richardson to Foyston's two years in the Amateur leagues. Their numbers are far better. (my bios will cover this) Does that translate to better pro careers? Impossible to say, but it is good food for thought. Enough that they should be scoring line wingers going forward.

Quote:
-15 other teams missed out on Lou Fontinato. The guy really deserves top 6 time.
I am surprised nobody took him; he fills a very specific role.

Notice that 6 of my 7 D-men earned significant Norris consideration in at least two seasons? - I like it very much!

Quote:
Goaltending and coaching
-Don Edwards is one of a handful of goalies who has a case to be the 2nd best goalie in the draft. He doesn't quite have Kiprusoff's peak, but has more seasons near the top of the league (so far). Nicholson is definitely going to play some games behind Edwards, though, and I know almost nothing about him.
And don't expect to read too much about him in his bio, either. He seems to be a classic old fat, funny goalie. He enjoyed huge playoff success which I will illustrate (because it's important with Edwards as a starter) and he played a really long time when not many guys did, but specific info on how he played will be difficult. I don't see him (or another undrafted) being any worse than Paddy Moran aside from the HHOF nod.

Quote:
-Viktor Tikhonov, the best tactician and most accomplished coach in the MLD by a good margin. Also, a merciless dictator who thought nothing about destroying Drozdetsky's career after they had a feud (does anyone know what about?) He's a great coach, but what will he think of notoriously moody players like Redden and Arnott? I'm starting to think that both the Soviet coaches should always be paired with North American players' coach types as their assistants, to answer questions about how their temperaments would interact with North American primadonna types.
I thought about that, but after reading about how he enjoyed absolute control, I couldn't risk a power struggle. If Redden and Arnott are the two potential problems, then we're doing pretty good here, because I wouldn't call them "notoriously moody". You can never have a 100% perfect fit, and if I'm at 90%, I'm happy.

Quote:
Special teams
-your two most talented goal scorers are on the first unit (Jordan and Herg). Herg was known as a "garbageman," so he should work well here. Kozlov is an okay playmaker. Pointmen are excellent.

-I like Jirik's net presence on the 2nd unit. Warwick and Gardiner also have grit. This seems like a "go to the net" type of unit. I just noticed McCabe is playing the whole PP. I think he can handle that, along with 2nd pair unit.

-You always have the option of putting Arnott on the point of the PP, as the designated shooter. He had this role in NJ (playing next to Rafalski), and that team led the NHL in PP% in 00-01.
Interesting, I'll consider that.

Quote:
Overall
-Top 2 lines are loaded with grit and both are better than average defensively. Past Jordan and Herg, there seems to be a bit of a lack of offensive punch, however. Also, the first line's playmaking is questionable (depending on what you make of the sparse assist stats we have for Jordan's career).
If you base your judgment of players solely on "finishes" then a guy like Kozlov looks really mediocre but a career of having 50-75% as many points as the league's scoring leader is actually really impressive (that's pretty much what Johnny Bucyk did). He's closing in on 1000 adjusted points.

bit of a tangent here, but I've been really conflicted lately on the difference between "finishes" and "percentages" when it comes to judging offensive values. You almost have to have two standards at the same time. Some seasons in the O6, the 15th, 10th, and even 5th place guys had poor percentages of the leader, but at the same time, there's still something to be said for being in the handful of the best players at something. League size also impacts percentages even more than taent gap does, I think, so they can't be applied universally. But at the same time, if you're looking for top-10s from post-1980 players you'll be looking an awfully long time and choosing some one-year wonders who provide little beyond offense. Moving beyond these finishes and looking at how many 60, 70, 80-point seasons (or adjusted points) a player has, has been a better way to find strong players for me lately. For example, Kozlov is miles ahead of a guy like Rick Kehoe, who hit the top-5 in goals once.

Anyway, the talent is spread thinner here than ever before and I honestly think that after comparing around the league that our top-2 lines are above average in offensive punch.

Quote:
-Very well balanced defense, though with 2 questions. First, I question whether Redden has the temperament (not talent) to be a #1 in this. Also, whether he will be able to handle a shutdown role (though he was very good defensively on the 2nd pair during his prime).
Handled by overpass. (thanks) - and I have full confidence in Redden at both ends of the ice.


Last edited by seventieslord: 07-09-2010 at 05:47 AM.
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Old
07-09-2010, 07:28 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Forwards
-I bet you didn't know that Demitra is the best post-1967 regular season point producer in the MLD?

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...hlight=demitra

(Though I think Savard may have equalled him since HO first posted that thread).

Demitra was my top choice for a playmaking RW to play with Zabrodsky, but his best years were at center in St. Louis. The big blemish on Demitra's resume, of course, is that he and Tkachuk were the biggest goats as to why St. Louis kept choking in the playoffs. Excellent international performer, though.

Tanguay is a rare playmaking LW, and he does have a clutch resume that Demitra lacks.

Both Demitra and Tanguay were pass-first players and neither brings much grit. They could really use a gritty goalscorer on their line. Is Shalimov that guy? He's a very good goal scorer, but this line might have problems against more physical defenses.

-Spezza is a good playmaker. I see Kehoe as kind of a one-season wonder, but he's definitely a shootfirst player and probably has a better playmaker than anyone he had in real life. Both are noted softies. I know that HOFer Hooper is known for his grit, but is it enough to carry the physical toll (especially given the lack of toughness on the top line, unless I'm missing something about Shalimov).

-What is the role of the 3rd line? The presence of Kesler indicates that it should be a checking line, but you don't want noted floater Ray Sheppard on your checking line. Sheppard was good at one thing - finishing, and even then, Fedorov was doing all the heavy lifting during Sheppard's one 50-goal season (the year Fedorov won the Hart). I don't know much about Tommy Williams, but his stats show one single very good season as a playmaker in the NHL (52 assists, 4th in the league), one really good playoffs in the WHA, and that he killed penalties late in his career. Not sure if he's great for his role here, though I guess he can feed Sheppard and play responsibly.

-Patey appears to have been a very good defensive center. He wasn't on our radar, but probably should have been. His wingers provide tons of toughness, but seem kind of redundant with each other.

Defense
-First pair is solid, but unspectacular. Both players are solid - Ohlund defensively, Sydor offensively, but I would prefer more talent on my top pair. They won't be liabilities, though.

-Jarrett is a very solid and clean defensive defenseman. Chiasson was a good offensive defenseman and character guy. Pretty solid 2nd pair.

-Siltanen put up decent, but not great numbers in the NHL. I know nothing about his defensive play. I'm not really impressed by WJC and Finnish league results. Cooper seems like a great defensive defenseman and tough guy of his era. He'll definitely be on my radar in the future.

Goaltending and coaching
-Not much to say about your goaltending. Burke is an average starter in this, Irbe an above-average backup.

-What do we make of Hlinka's failure as an NHL coach? He's one of the smartest coaches in this thing... yet he was fired after only 4 games in the NHL (Penguins), in part because "his limited command of English made it difficult for him to communicate with players." I'm not sure if he's the best coach for a team of mostly North Americans, at least without a North American assistant. But is that a fair criticism? It might apply to all the Soviet and Czech coaches.

Overall
A talented lineup overall, but I have concerns about the lack of grit in your scoring lines, and the role that your 3rd line is supposed to play. Also, the emphasis on modern defensemen left you with a top pair that, while solid, is less talented than many.

You did manage to get some gems among modern players, though. Mainly Demitra, who would be picked in one of the first few rounds of this thing if he were an older player (and therefore his playoff failures weren't fresh in our minds).

I'm also curious how other GMs view Hlinka's failure as an NHL coach. I honestly don't know how it should apply to this thing.
I'll address some of the points that both you and the prior critique brought up.

3rd line: to be honest, that was the reason I added the two reserves that I did. Kesler IMO, while a one-season wonder as far as any ATD should be concerned, is a decent playmaking centerman and is already a noted two-way centerman (2 time Selke finalist). A bit of bench flexibility I think could go a long way towards defining the roles on my team. I probably should have posted an "A" and "B" lineup to be honest. Bohuslav Stastny was known as a very good two-way player on the Czechoslovakian World Championship gold medal teams from 72 and 76. In series where having more of a defensive oriented 3rd line would be useful the intent would be to sub out Sheppard for Stastny and have a pretty good shutdown line with Williams and Kesler. Likewise against a team that may not have quite the defensive depth to contain 3 scoring lines putting Konopasek, who was arguably the best LW in Europe in his prime, in place of Williams may make more sense and simply have Kesler work as a playmaking pivot that's also defensively responsible. Truth be told, I probably should not have listed my 3rd line as that, something more along the lines of this would make more sense:

Offensive Third Line: Konopasek - Kesler - Sheppard
Defensive Third Line: T. Williams - Kesler - B. Stastny

Hlinka: The language barrier is something I definitely considered (although as you stated that could easily be the case for any European coach selected in one of these) but being fired 4 games into that second season with the Penguins is something that I dismissed. The season before he managed to take a Penguins team that was a six seed in the East beating a pretty decent Washington in 6 and knocking off the Sabres with a still prime Hasek along the way. Also (not one of your points but a prior point) while he's noted as more of a defensive coach that Penguins team was far more offense oriented and he did well in adapting, which is worth some points to me.

That next season I can not place on Hlinka as his replacement didn't really improve things too much. That was the first season in a string of bottom feeder finishes for the Penguins that have only been reversed in the past 4 seasons. Jagr had just been sent to Washington in what was an absolutely terrible trade even before all 3 players they received in return busted. Straka was injured all season. Mario only played 24 games whereas he played 43 the prior season. They lost some decent defensemen that season that, while at the time might not have seemed like much, definitely hurt: Bob Boughner, Marc Bergevin and Frank Kucera only to have them replaced by players like Josef Melichar, John Jakopin and Rick Berry. Frankly that 2001-02 Pens team was a mess and aside from the failure of the coach to address the language barrier he really can't be faulted for what was more a management issue. His performance with the team the prior season and his international history was enough to get me firmly enough in his corner to select him.

Won't argue with your other points too much. My first line definitely is on the soft side although I feel their speed can compensate for that a good bit.


Did a quick edit to my first post in this thread to reflect these third line changes


Last edited by DaveG: 07-09-2010 at 08:10 AM.
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07-09-2010, 11:06 AM
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Les As de Québec


Coach: Claude Ruel

Pierre Larouche - Gus Bodnar - Billy Gilmour (A)
Steve Payne - Don Raleigh - Jimmy Ward
Buzz Boll - Ray Ferraro - Ron Stewart
Andre Pronovost - Herb Carnegie - Ossie Carnegie
Ron Duguay - Ken Mallen

Joe Jerwa - Joe Watson (A)
Rick Ley (C) - Alex Smith
Roman Hamrlik - Reg Hamilton
Sheldon Souray

Henrik Lundqvist
Ron Grahame

First Line: Larouche-Bodnar-Gilmour-Larouche and Bodnar shoud form one of the more potent offensive duos, but neither brings much more than offense.
-Gilmour is a tough one to figure out. He wasn't a great scorer, and assist totals are basically useless from his time, so we don't know his playmaking ability. He does seem to have a rather high PIM total, so I think that means he played a rough game. I think we might be able to call him a "glue guy" for this first line.
-the unit is pretty weak defensively

I'lll do more later... but I need to go

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07-09-2010, 12:54 PM
  #70
TheDevilMadeMe
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First Line: Larouche-Bodnar-Gilmour-Larouche and Bodnar shoud form one of the more potent offensive duos, but neither brings much more than offense.
-Gilmour is a tough one to figure out. He wasn't a great scorer, and assist totals are basically useless from his time, so we don't know his playmaking ability. He does seem to have a rather high PIM total, so I think that means he played a rough game. I think we might be able to call him a "glue guy" for this first line.
-the unit is pretty weak defensively

I'lll do more later... but I need to go
Larouche and Bodnar were both great offensive players... but both are natural centers. I think it means Larouche's numbers have to be bumped down slightly, playing wing, where he can't touch the puck as often. Still, even bumped down, he's a a pretty good goal scorer.

Gilmour has to have glue guy attributes. IMO, he's one of the better glue guys in this. He's in the HOF, has mediocre offensive numbers (for a HOFer), and relatively high PIMs. Why else would he be in the HOF if he didn't have glue guy attributes?

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07-09-2010, 01:22 PM
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Larouche and Bodnar were both great offensive players... but both are natural centers. I think it means Larouche's numbers have to be bumped down slightly, playing wing, where he can't touch the puck as often. Still, even bumped down, he's a a pretty good goal scorer.

Gilmour has to have glue guy attributes. IMO, he's one of the better glue guys in this. He's in the HOF, has mediocre offensive numbers (for a HOFer), and relatively high PIMs. Why else would he be in the HOF if he didn't have glue guy attributes?
It might be that they wanted to induct the whole team into the Hall.

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07-09-2010, 02:00 PM
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Thank you, I always thoroughly enjoy your reviews.
If only I had known you were doing a profile dump late last night/ early this morning, I would have been able to do a better one.
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Labine and Drury are there to provide everything that is a question mark for Jordan - toughness, defense, and playoff capabilities. (Labine, of course, is an extreme in the toughness department, bringing true meanness, intimidation, and agitation) I realize Labine isn't a star, but at the same time, top-20 seasons don't grow on trees in the MLD, and having four of them, even in the O6, is a great accomplishment at this point. Considering he's a glue guy here, he's fine.
I get that. I'm just concerned about their offense. I think it's too easy for a good defensive team to shut down a line that depends on one player to carry the offense. I can buy Labine as a scoring line glue guy in this thing.

Drury does add a defensive presence and clutch scoring, but I just don't like him on a top line, even at this level. But then, I always thought that he was pretty overrated.

And again, I still think have questions about what Jordan's reconstructed assist totals really mean. For players of this era, I really would like quotes about playmaking ability (like we have with Billy McGimsie).

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I have to stick by this one. Redden has to be one of the three best defensemen in the draft. And he's easily my best defenseman. He should and will get #1 minutes. It could also be argued that the caliber of player he faces in this draft nightly is lower than what he was used to in his prime (his norris record and icetime history - based on minutes and for which team - are the best in this draft)
I don't know about one of the three best - I haven't really looked into that yet - but he's definitely talented enough to be a #1 in this. That isn't what I was questioning. I was questioning whether he could handle the role mentally, not whether he had the talent. And overpass showed that before Chara emerged in Ottawa, Redden indeed was a pretty successful #1, so consdier that question solved.
Quote:

If you base your judgment of players solely on "finishes" then a guy like Kozlov looks really mediocre but a career of having 50-75% as many points as the league's scoring leader is actually really impressive (that's pretty much what Johnny Bucyk did). He's closing in on 1000 adjusted points.

bit of a tangent here, but I've been really conflicted lately on the difference between "finishes" and "percentages" when it comes to judging offensive values. You almost have to have two standards at the same time. Some seasons in the O6, the 15th, 10th, and even 5th place guys had poor percentages of the leader, but at the same time, there's still something to be said for being in the handful of the best players at something. League size also impacts percentages even more than taent gap does, I think, so they can't be applied universally. But at the same time, if you're looking for top-10s from post-1980 players you'll be looking an awfully long time and choosing some one-year wonders who provide little beyond offense. Moving beyond these finishes and looking at how many 60, 70, 80-point seasons (or adjusted points) a player has, has been a better way to find strong players for me lately. For example, Kozlov is miles ahead of a guy like Rick Kehoe, who hit the top-5 in goals once.
Yeah, I don't know. I definitely agree that a long career as the 20th best player in the league is better than one season as top 10 player and spending the rest of your career as a face in the crowd (like Kehoe). And I'm the one who said in the main draft that I value modern Top 20 finishes (especially post Euro invasion) as much as Top 10 finishes in the O6. But the thing is, Kozlov's top 20 finishes aren't very impressive either.

I guess it depends on how much you value peak vs. sustained performance. Kozlov ranks pretty highly on the 2nd one.

As a tangent, I can see strengths and weaknesses in the percentage approach. The strength is that it better approximates the depth of talent in the league than strict top 5/10/20 finishes, especially in really early eras where 6th place might have scored 20% of the goals of 1st place. The weakness though, is that in certain eras, the true stars probably do score higher than lesser stars; due more to things like ice time and style of play, etc. For instance, the 40th best forward in the world is going to receive 1st line ice time and opportunities in a 30 team league, while the 20th best forward in a 6 team league will not. I don't really know which method is better. The farther you get away from the truly elite, the tougher these comparisons become (which we all know).

It's a little easier with a guy like Kozlov, who most of us have seen play. He's certainly been one of the better complimentary players in the league during his career; playing an important role next to Fedorov on 2 championship teams in Detroit, and later on really helping a couple of star players in Atlanta reach career highes.

Quote:
Anyway, the talent is spread thinner here than ever before and I honestly think that after comparing around the league that our top-2 lines are above average in offensive punch.
Very possible. Even if the rest of your offense is mediocre, Jordan alone bumps it up a notch. And with your team well above average in other respects, you're certainly not doing poorly for yourself.

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07-09-2010, 03:45 PM
  #73
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UPDATED

The following teams need more feedback. If you want to write a detailed review of a team, these are the ones where youc an be most helpful:

St. Mary's Huskies: 0 (I plan on reviewing this team, probably my last long review)
Kokudo Bunnies: 0 (not posted, but should be reviewed anyway)
Texas Brahmas: 0.5
Boston College Eagles: 0.5

The following teams were reviewed but could use feedback from another source. If you want to make a short review or just a few quick comments, it would be helpful:

Toronto Marlies: 1
Carolina Hurricanes: 1
Philadelphia Blazers: 1
Florida Hammerheads: 1
Regina Capitals: 1
Belleville Bulls: 1
Brooklyn Americans: 1
Pittsburgh Bankers: 1

The following teams were reviewed and received feedback from more than one source. But if you have anything original to contribute, please do so.

Charlotte Clippers: 1.5
Baltimore Skipjacks: 1.5
Les As de Quebec: 1.5
Cornwall Royals: 1.5

(The number is number of reviews - 1 being extensive, 0.5 being relatively quick):


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 07-10-2010 at 11:49 AM.
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Old
07-09-2010, 03:50 PM
  #74
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Pittsburgh Bankers: 0 (not posted, but should be reviewed anyway)
I'll do this one tonight

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07-09-2010, 04:08 PM
  #75
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I tried twice to do reviews in the ATD, and I don't really know why, but I'm really awful at them. I'll try to do one or two short reviews later tonight, we'll see if it works.

And VanI, vote will be sent tonight as well.

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