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MLD 2010 Assassination Thread

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Old
07-12-2010, 01:39 PM
  #101
markrander87
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Wow. LOH really says that? That's total bull - Gomez was one of the worst defensive players on the team; probably only Mogilny was worse (and Mogilny left after 2001...). Post-Mogilny, Gomez was constantly in Pat Burns' doghouse for missing his assignments.

Really makes me wonder if we can trust LOH's descriptions of older players, but I guess there is no better option.

I mean, the Devils were a team of two-way forwards, so I guess Gomez being the worst of the bunch probably made him average by NHL standards of scoring-line players.

Gomez is definitely good enough to be a 2nd liner in this. Is Danny Grant capable of being the puck winner for the line?
Thats the thing though, LOH is one of the only sites we have to go by for much older players, so to not take what they say into account for newer era players is an unjustice to them because if we think otherwise of what they say, whos to say a similar quote involving a player from the 20's is as accurate.

Regarding Grant I do feel he is capable of being a 2nd line glue guy who can also provide some goal scoring. He has 2 top 10's in goals and 4 top 5's in PP goals so he can find a way to score.

LOH Quote

Quote:
he was strong on his blades. He was also characterized as a tough winger who was clever, worked hard and packed a swift, accurate wrist shot.
GHL:

Quote:
Danny Grant never got the credit he deserved for being a good hockey player.
Quote:
Grant immediately cracked the Minnesota line up, scoring a team-leading 34 goals and earning NHL rookie of the year honours in the 1968-69 season. The 34 goals became the modern day rookie record (since bettered).

Quote:
Grant would continue to be a top marksman for the North Stars over the following five seasons, only once failing to notch at least 29 goals in a campaign. Though defined by his wrist shot, he was also noted as a clever and durable winger, once playing in 566 consecutive games.
Quote:
he had to rely of hard work rather than glitzy skill that other teams' stars seemed to have.
Quote:
Playing along side Marcel Dionne, Grant exploded for 50 goals and 87 points. He also was lauded for his defensive effort, and even became a regular on the penalty kill unit.
Quote:
but Dionne also had a great respect for Grant, once calling him the "the best left winger I ever played with. He was always working, had a great shot and was always near the net."

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Old
07-12-2010, 01:42 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Thats the thing though, LOH is one of the only sites we have to go by for much older players, so to not take what they say into account for newer era players is an unjustice to them because if we think otherwise of what they say, whos to say a similar quote involving a player from the 20's is as accurate.
When LOH is full of crap, I'm not going to pretend it's not full of crap. Gomez's defense is adequate, no better. Saying he was "one of the best two-way players" on the Devils is insulting to all the players on the team who were better than Gomez defensively (which is almost all of them). The point of this is historical accuracy. My guess is that LOH is more accurate for players who retired before the website was created, anyway, since the writer actually had to do research to make the piece.

Quote:
Regarding Grant I do feel he is capable of being a 2nd line glue guy who can also provide some goal scoring. He has 2 top 10's in goals and 4 top 5's in PP goals so he can find a way to score.

LOH Quote



GHL:
I can buy it.

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Old
07-12-2010, 03:33 PM
  #103
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Let's see if I can fire up some discussion here.....

I just went through all the rosters and compared all the different parts, so here's what I liked best and from which team.

First Lines
Florida Hammerheads: Marc Tardif-Craig Janney-Dolly Swift
- not terribly multi-dimensional, but absolutely crazy offensive skill here.

Second Lines
Brooklyn Americans: Dubbie Kerr-Dutch Reibel-Todd Bertuzzi
- Kerr and Reibel are a very strong offensive punch, and Bertuzzi is a bear.

Third Lines
Texas Brahmas: Jack Marks-Billy Reay-Mike Keane
- this is, by far, my favourite 3rd line. All three guys are among the elite at their positions.

Fourth Lines
Regina Capitals: Andre Boudrais-Jason Arnott-Grant Warwick
- good mix here... a little bit of everything.

First Pairings
Les As de Quebec: Joe Jerwa-Joe Watson
- Jerwa's the best defenseman in this draft, and Watson is a good stay-at-home guy.

Second Pairings
Texas Brahmas: Alexsei Gusarov-Dave Babych
- Babych should be a 1st pairing guy.

Third Pairings
Regina Capitals: Larry Hillman-Hugh Bolton
- should be really good PKers.

Goaltending
Baltimore Skipjacks: Riley Hern-Johhny Mowers
- not only do you have the best starter, you also have one of the best back-ups!

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Old
07-12-2010, 03:54 PM
  #104
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Really makes me wonder if we can trust LOH's descriptions of older players, but I guess there is no better option.
Newspapers!

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07-12-2010, 03:58 PM
  #105
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Playing along side Marcel Dionne, Grant exploded for 50 goals and 87 points. He also was lauded for his defensive effort, and even became a regular on the penalty kill unit.
The inaccuracy of this quote is proven by statistics. without digging too deep, it could convince you that Danny Grant was some penalty killing star. But he definitely wasn't. In 1974-75 he was a regular on the PK, with 26 PPGA. The next season he played a bit on the PK, with 10 PPGA. In all the other seasons of his career combined, he had 3 PPGA.

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07-12-2010, 06:29 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
The inaccuracy of this quote is proven by statistics. without digging too deep, it could convince you that Danny Grant was some penalty killing star. But he definitely wasn't. In 1974-75 he was a regular on the PK, with 26 PPGA. The next season he played a bit on the PK, with 10 PPGA. In all the other seasons of his career combined, he had 3 PPGA.

Im not sure what the purpose of this is, he is not on either of our two penalty killing units. The purpose of that quote was to show that he can handle himself defensively and is not a one-dimensional player.

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07-12-2010, 06:52 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Im not sure what the purpose of this is, he is not on either of our two penalty killing units. The purpose of that quote was to show that he can handle himself defensively and is not a one-dimensional player.
Fair enough, and I'm not attacking Grant, I do think he's one of the very best players you could have picked this late for secondary offense.

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07-13-2010, 03:23 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Third Lines
Texas Brahmas: Jack Marks-Billy Reay-Mike Keane
- this is, by far, my favourite 3rd line. All three guys are among the elite at their positions.
This is a good one. Both Marks and Reay got votes from me.


Quote:
First Pairings
Les As de Quebec: Joe Jerwa-Joe Watson
- Jerwa's the best defenseman in this draft, and Watson is a good stay-at-home guy.
Jerwa is good, but why are you so sure he is the best in the draft? Twice he was the points runner-up for defensemen, yet, he was not an all-star either time. In 1936, we only know the top-4, but in 1937, 13 defensemen received at least one vote and he was not one of them!

Pervukhin, Buller, Shmyr, Redden, McNamara, and Halderson were all certainly better.

Heck, McCabe was more offensively prolific, there's no evidece Jerwa was any better defensively, and McCabe has the leadership background, 1000 game career, and the 2nd team all-star, so why is Jerwa even better than him?

Quote:
Goaltending
Baltimore Skipjacks: Riley Hern-Johhny Mowers
- not only do you have the best starter, you also have one of the best back-ups!
You must really love my backup if you think Riley Hern is the best starter.

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07-13-2010, 03:39 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Jerwa is good, but why are you so sure he is the best in the draft? Twice he was the points runner-up for defensemen, yet, he was not an all-star either time. In 1936, we only know the top-4, but in 1937, 13 defensemen received at least one vote and he was not one of them!

Pervukhin, Buller, Shmyr, Redden, McNamara, and Halderson were all certainly better.

Heck, McCabe was more offensively prolific, there's no evidece Jerwa was any better defensively, and McCabe has the leadership background, 1000 game career, and the 2nd team all-star, so why is Jerwa even better than him?
Maybe you'ree right..... I agree Hy Buller is the best!

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Old
07-13-2010, 03:45 AM
  #110
seventieslord
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Steamer Maxwell: Points of Reference

If you've been reading bios, you'll have noticed that I have come up with an elementary method of comparing amateur HHOFers Frank Rankin and George Richardson to known players. The same is possible with jarek and TDMM's pick, Steamer Maxwell, using the SIHR database.

Maxwell didn't play in the same leagues all the other early HHOFers did, so the best way to do a statistical comparison is to compare him to guys who did play in those leagues as well as his Manitoba Senior League and Winnipeg Senior League. Luckily there are a few:

Maxwell: 32 points in 37 games (0.86)
Cully Wilson: 17 points in 9 games (1.89)
Clem Loughlin: 13 points in 32 games (0.41) - as a defenseman
Joe Simpson: 44 points in 30 games (1.47) - as a defenseman

Frank Fredrickson also had 64 points in 23 games over 3 seasons (2.79), but he started the year after Maxwell left, and is not truly a contemporary.

Not that scoring only half as much as Cully Wilson makes you a bum, but Wilson was not a major star himself. Maxwell does not appear to have been very impressive offensively; however, his game may have ben intangibles-based, or, maybe he spent a lot of time on D, in which case those offensive results become more forgivable and his HHOF induction starts to look as understandable as those of Richardson and Rankin. jarek/TDMM, you should do some google news searches, shed some light on this.

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07-13-2010, 03:55 AM
  #111
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Reviews received:

Texas Brahmas: 0.5
Boston College Eagles: 0.5
Toronto Marlies: 1
Carolina Hurricanes: 1
Philadelphia Blazers: 1
Florida Hammerheads: 1
Regina Capitals: 1
Belleville Bulls: 1
Brooklyn Americans: 1
Pittsburgh Bankers: 1
St. Mary's Huskies: 1
Kokudo Bunnies: 1
Charlotte Clippers: 1.5
Baltimore Skipjacks: 1.5
Les As de Quebec: 1.5
Cornwall Royals: 1.5

I'm going to review Boston first since ZM is newer to this than VI and should get a review. If no one else has reviewed Texas b then, I will do them next.

Anyone else who wants more time for assassinations and rankings, you should speak up. If it's just me, VI should just ignore me and get on with the show, but if it's a lot us us, maybe we should wait and savour the MLD!

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Old
07-13-2010, 04:53 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
If only I had known you were doing a profile dump late last night/ early this morning, I would have been able to do a better one.
Or if you had waited till now!

Quote:
I get that. I'm just concerned about their offense. I think it's too easy for a good defensive team to shut down a line that depends on one player to carry the offense. I can buy Labine as a scoring line glue guy in this thing.

Drury does add a defensive presence and clutch scoring, but I just don't like him on a top line, even at this level. But then, I always thought that he was pretty overrated.
Which reminds me, I wanted to mention that, when I said that Drury was by far the highest-selected ATD12 player left, it was in no way a pimping of him as a player, just something that I noticed.

I think he has been overrated in the past, too, having been a 3rd and 4th liner in the ATD. He's a plausible 1st-3rd liner in the MLD, depending on the makeup of the team.

Quote:
And again, I still think have questions about what Jordan's reconstructed assist totals really mean. For players of this era, I really would like quotes about playmaking ability (like we have with Billy McGimsie).
You asked for it, you got it. Jordan's bio has now been updated. Check it out!

(For anyone using google news for quotes, when you exhaust all sources using "firstname lastname", try doing another search for "lastname hockey" - a lot of new stuff will turn up!)

Quote:
Yeah, I don't know. I definitely agree that a long career as the 20th best player in the league is better than one season as top 10 player and spending the rest of your career as a face in the crowd (like Kehoe). And I'm the one who said in the main draft that I value modern Top 20 finishes (especially post Euro invasion) as much as Top 10 finishes in the O6. But the thing is, Kozlov's top 20 finishes aren't very impressive either.
No, they're not, and neither are Arnott's, but Arnott has the most 54-point seasons and most 0.73 PPG seasons among all MLD players. (almost the most 25-goal seasons, too) - sustained performance is definitely something we should all pay better attention to going forward, particularly for post-1990 forwards.

Quote:
As a tangent, I can see strengths and weaknesses in the percentage approach. The strength is that it better approximates the depth of talent in the league than strict top 5/10/20 finishes, especially in really early eras where 6th place might have scored 20% of the goals of 1st place. The weakness though, is that in certain eras, the true stars probably do score higher than lesser stars; due more to things like ice time and style of play, etc. For instance, the 40th best forward in the world is going to receive 1st line ice time and opportunities in a 30 team league, while the 20th best forward in a 6 team league will not. I don't really know which method is better. The farther you get away from the truly elite, the tougher these comparisons become (which we all know).
I have lived and died by both methods and now that I have seen both sides of the coin I wish I could say it is easy to pick one method going forward. It isn't. The best I can think of right now, is a rankings-based approach for pre-expansion that sometimes is awkward percentage-wise, (for reasons I mentioned last post) and more of an adjusted-points or percentage-based approach for post-expansion even though it looks awkward rankings-wise.

Kozlov is not THE greatest example of a reason it works (see Ray Whitney and Jason Arnott!), but here is a guy who was never top-20 in points, yet, had 70 points 6 times (63%-81% of the 5th-place scorer) which based on percentages in the O6 days, is like 5 seasons of 47-62 points, all of which would be 11th-20th in the league. Ed Litzenberger, an accepted ATD 2nd liner, wasn't even top-20 in points five times. On the other hand, I showed in our ATD series that Busher Jackson's seasons were no more impressive than Heatley's percentage-wise, even though his rankings were much better. Neither passes the smell test when attempting to transfer across eras.

You are right that the further down we go, the tougher it gets.

Quote:
Very possible. Even if the rest of your offense is mediocre, Jordan alone bumps it up a notch. And with your team well above average in other respects, you're certainly not doing poorly for yourself.
Thank you. In case you haven't noticed, my bios are done. Check out my work on my amateur HHOFers - I'm pretty sure the're steals that a number of teams should have placed on 1st and 2nd lines back in rounds 5 and 6. You will be interested to know that I actually did find some good stuff on Nicholson. And Warwick and Fontinato were revelations. I was not expecting a fiery, physical player when I took Warwick, and there are two other seasons (1957 and 1962) where Fontinato is mentioned as one of the league's best defensemen, aside from the two where he received Norris votes that we know of (1959 and 1963). And I don't think anyone (including myself) realized how great Boudrias was before now; we kept leaving him for the AAA draft for some reason.

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Old
07-13-2010, 05:32 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Boston College Eagles

coach: Jan Starsi

Alex Shibicky (a) - Skene Ronan - Kent Nilsson
Steve Vickers - Dennis Maruk (c) - Alex Kovalev
Butch Keeling - Rick Meagher - Claude Larose
Jack McDonald - Billy McGimsie - Serge Bernier
Forbes Kennedy, Rob Niedermayer

Marty Burke - Bob Murray (a)
Shea Weber - Brian Campbell
Brad Marsh - Niklas Kronwall
Jocelyn Guevremont

Sugar Jim Henry
Wilf Cude
Jan Starsi is a guy I don't know too much about. But he's definitely getting more respect here lately. I'm thinking he's one of the 5 best coaches in the MLD.

I like shibicky as a 1st liner. His resume is just slightly better than my Wally Hergesheimer. Very similar from a finishes standpoint. Slightly weaker competition though. However, isn't he a RW? Skene Ronan is out of place as a 1st liner. I see a guy who was 3rd, 9th ,10th, 12th in NHA scoring (a half-league). He doesn't look much better than Bruce Ridpath, who we discussed extensively and who appears to be a barely passable 2nd liner. What do you know about him that I don't? Nilsson is an excellent MLD 1st liner, one of the premier talents here. Shibicky's strong playoffs help counteract Nilsson's annual disappearing act. You also gotta love a 6-footer from the 40s - but was he a puck winner? If not, does this line have one?

Steve Vickers is an ok 2nd line LW and he does a lot of little things well, too. He is a great complement to Maruk and Kovalev. Maruk, as I understand it, had some battle in him, but he was mighty small. Please explain why you feel he is captain material. Kovalev is also as talented as you can get for an MLD 2nd line. No need to go over his negatives, they are well-known. But the guy has over 1100 adjusted points! He's got sustained performance, plus a good peak, and he was the guy who drove his offense, too. This one is well-constructed - playmaker, goalscorer, glue guy with some talent, and offsetting skill sets.

Rick Meagher is probably the best defensive center in this draft. Some might say Ricci, I say he's 2nd. He won't get you any offense, but he'll stop the other team. Butch Keeling is a bit of an in-betweener - a bit of a two-way guy, some decent offense, but nothing special, certainly nothing that will carry a line offensively. Same with Larose. With a strong two-way center this line could have done some damage. But if you start with Meagher, then you may as well grab some low-hanging fruit later on like a Jay Pandolfo, who dropped forever, because like Keeling, he will produce nothing on a line with Meagher, but he'll defend a lot stronger. Otherwise you're left with a line that appears to lack purpose a bit.

I like McGimsie as a 4th line center. Tiny, but you can't go wrong with a HHOFer. As far as those go, there are very few of them with fewer recorded games played than him. Justifying his greatness aside from the HHOF induction is tough, but then again, he did keep pace with teammate Tommy Phillips in the Manitoba league. Jack McDonald was an excellent pick when you got him and a great complementary offensive player (and, I swear I read it once, backchecker) in his time. Bernier adds more scoring punch. this definitely has the capability to be one of the more potent 4th lines in the draft.

You took a LONG time to start picking D-men. And it shows. Marty Burke and Bob Murray form a pretty below average 1st pairing. At no time was either of them one of the best in the league at anything. A good mix from a skillset standpoint, though - an offensive guy with a defensive guy. Burke would make a good #5. Murray, a nice AAA top pairing guy.

I'm of the opinion that Shea Weber, along with guys like Toews and Seabrook, was taken out of place here. So that hurts the second pairing right away. Campbell helps. He had a great peak and a very solid offensive resume at this point, and was a key role player in a cup win. Still, a pretty mediocre MLD 2nd pairing.

Kronwall has proven to be an excellent NHL player. Has he done it for long enough to be a passable MLD 3rd pairing guy? I say yes. Brad Marsh was rarely anything special, and he has one of the worst adjusted +/- of all-time, but he was always known as the solid veteran and a good guy. He is more suited to AAA duty, but he won't kill you on a 3rd pairing, either. But if he's not here for some leadership, why is he here? The guy captained multiple NHL teams, take the C off Maruk and give it to Marshie!

I'm a big fan of Cude. Play him in 40 games; I think he's as good as Henry. Both should be MLD starters. You did well here.

Summary:

Very strong coaching and goaltending will have to combine to make an extremely suspect defense look better. Forwards don't jump out at you, but are adequate.

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Old
07-13-2010, 09:06 AM
  #114
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Just wondering if anybody has any time to say a few words regarding our defense. All suggestions and opinions welcomed.

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07-13-2010, 09:29 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Just wondering if anybody has any time to say a few words regarding our defense. All suggestions and opinions welcomed.
Sure....

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Originally Posted by Stalberg View Post
Mattias Norstrom (C)-Kenny Jonsson
Pekka Rautakallio-Dave Maloney
Garry Galley-Sylvain Lefebvre
Ex: Tex Evans
Seems like a pretty boring, unspectacular, but solid unit. Not much top-end talent, but a good group of 7.

I'd rather see Dave Maloney on the first pair with Kenny Jonsson.

Also, I would use Evans as a starter - the guy's a beast.

Maloney-Jonsson
Nordstrom-Galley
Evan-Rautakallio

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07-13-2010, 09:57 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Sure....



Seems like a pretty boring, unspectacular, but solid unit. Not much top-end talent, but a good group of 7.

I'd rather see Dave Maloney on the first pair with Kenny Jonsson.

Also, I would use Evans as a starter - the guy's a beast.

Maloney-Jonsson
Nordstrom-Galley
Evan-Rautakallio

Thanks a lot man, we were contemplating moving Maloney up to the first pairing to provide more offensive and defensive balance amongst out top 4.

The solid group of 7 is what we were looking for, we feel it will be beneficial to be able to roll all 3 pairs in almost every situation.

Im going to have to read up on Evans, you have me intrigued

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07-13-2010, 12:38 PM
  #117
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70s, I'm curious about Bob MacMillan playing the point on the power play. Do you know if he actually did it in the NHL? Or do you think his skills and attributes are a good match?

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07-13-2010, 03:40 PM
  #118
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Steamer Maxwell: Points of Reference

If you've been reading bios, you'll have noticed that I have come up with an elementary method of comparing amateur HHOFers Frank Rankin and George Richardson to known players. The same is possible with jarek and TDMM's pick, Steamer Maxwell, using the SIHR database.

Maxwell didn't play in the same leagues all the other early HHOFers did, so the best way to do a statistical comparison is to compare him to guys who did play in those leagues as well as his Manitoba Senior League and Winnipeg Senior League. Luckily there are a few:

Maxwell: 32 points in 37 games (0.86)
Cully Wilson: 17 points in 9 games (1.89)
Clem Loughlin: 13 points in 32 games (0.41) - as a defenseman
Joe Simpson: 44 points in 30 games (1.47) - as a defenseman

Frank Fredrickson also had 64 points in 23 games over 3 seasons (2.79), but he started the year after Maxwell left, and is not truly a contemporary.

Not that scoring only half as much as Cully Wilson makes you a bum, but Wilson was not a major star himself. Maxwell does not appear to have been very impressive offensively; however, his game may have ben intangibles-based, or, maybe he spent a lot of time on D, in which case those offensive results become more forgivable and his HHOF induction starts to look as understandable as those of Richardson and Rankin. jarek/TDMM, you should do some google news searches, shed some light on this.
Apparently there was a river steamer named Maxwell around the turn of the century, which has a lot more written about it than the hockey player. Makes the search more difficult.

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07-13-2010, 04:12 PM
  #119
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St. Mary's part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Ladies and Gentleman, Allow me to introduce your 2010

ST. MARY’S HUSKIES

COACH-Joel Quenneville
ASSISTANT COACH-Father David Bauer

Gregg Sheppard-Mike Rogers-Bill Goldsworthy (A)
Zach Parise-Andy Blair-Fred Whitcroft
Lorne Henning-Mike Ricci (A)-Leroy Goldsworthy
Danny Grant-Scott Gomez-Dave "The Hammer" Schultz


Kenny Jonsson-Mattias Norstrom (C)
Dave Maloney-Pekka Rautakallio
Gary Galley- Sylvian Lefebvre


Olaf Kolzig
Cam Ward

Spares:Alexei Zhamnov, Tex Evans

PP1: Whitcroft-Rogers-Goldsworthy
Jonsson-Rautakallio

PP2: Grant-Sheppard-Parise
Maloney-Galley

PK1: Ricci-Henning
Lefebvre-Norstrom

PK2: L Goldsworthy-Sheppard
Jonsson-Maloney
Defense, continued
Agree with Dreakmur's early suggestion to swap Maloney and Norstrom. I was skeptical of Rautakallio's success in Finland, but he did carry it over in the NHL for a few years, even going to an NHL all-star game, so I see him as good enough to be an offensive-minded 2nd pairing guy. Norstrom is a good partner for him.

Gallay is probably not as good offensively as Rautakallio, but he had a longer career against better competition, so maybe he's a better 2nd pair option like Dreak said? I don't know. Either one works there for me.

Lefebvre was a tough defensive defenseman who contributed to winning teams in Toronto and Colorado. I think he's a very good #6 and would need a good reason for Evans to knock him out of the lineup

Goaltending and coaching
-Kolzig is an average to maybe slightly above average starter in this. Trivia 1: Kolzig has the highest cumulative playoff save % of all time. Trivia 2: The goalie with the second best cumulative playoff save % of all time won't even be drafted in the AAA draft, which shows the value of this metric. Regardless, Kolzig was the backbone of the defensive-minded Capitals in the late 90s and was key in the one miracle run to the finals.

-I don't really like Ward as a backup for Kolzig - he's too up and down. Ward does have the ability to steal series in the playoffs if Kolzig goes down, though, but a healthy Kolzig is good in the playoffs himself.

-I'm not sure of Quennville's legacy as a coach. He was known as a good regular season/choking in the playoffs coach until winning the Cup with Chicago. I'd like to see what he does with a much less stacked Chicago team before evaluating him fully. Right now, he's a worthy coach in this, not necessarily one of the best. You did get him a good assistant, though.

Special teams
-Pointmen are probably a bit below average; it would be nice if you had a forward who could play the point, but I don't see any.

-Gregg Sheppard is a more defensive player than offensive player. I like either Gomez or Blair on the PP over him.

-PK forwards are very strong, defensemen are adequate

Overall
I realize you addressed some of this already.

-As far as I know, Gregg Sheppard was a defense-first center. Seeing him as LW on a scoring line is odd.

-You already addressed the Gomez on the 4th line issue.

-Excellent 3rd line - the strength of the team. Probably the 2nd best 3rd line in this after VI's 3rd line.

-Defense is well-balanced, though I do agree with Dreak to switch Maloney and Norstrom.

-coaching and goaltending won't help or hurt you.

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07-13-2010, 04:26 PM
  #120
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
70s, I'm curious about Bob MacMillan playing the point on the power play. Do you know if he actually did it in the NHL? Or do you think his skills and attributes are a good match?
I don't know if he actually did it in the NHL. But I saw it as something that would be a breeze for him based on his versatility ("can play any position, would play goal if you asked him to")

But actually, as I've updated in my main roster post, but not in this thread, that spot is now taken by Jason Arnott. TDMM sold me on Arnott, but also the way I had it made MacMillan my most-used forward and Arnott my least-used. This tightens up the ice-time chart a bit, taking 3 minutes from MacMillan to Arnott.

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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Apparently there was a river steamer named Maxwell around the turn of the century, which has a lot more written about it than the hockey player. Makes the search more difficult.
Dang, that sucks. I've become a pretty good searcher. Let's see what I can find later tonight.

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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post

-As far as I know, Gregg Sheppard was a defense-first center. Seeing him as LW on a scoring line is odd.
I have him in my files as "C/LW". Can't remember now where I got that, but I must have gotten it somewhere.

He's not an ideal first liner, but I'd say he's not far off from Drury on a per-game basis. I'd rather see him on a 3rd line myself. I thought he had the potential to be a top-notch 3rd liner.

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07-13-2010, 04:42 PM
  #121
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You're right there in my head with the Rautakallio vs. Galley, and Lefebrve vs. Evans comments TDMM. I was going to ask about who was better between Rautakallio and Galley, and whether or not there was enough information for Evans to knock Lefebvre from the #6 spot because I haven't found it yet.

This is going to sound bad, but I didn't even notice we had Sheppard on the 2nd PP unit, I think I would much prefer Gomez or Blair as well, likely Gomez.

I haven't talked to Mark yet, but I think it's safe to say that our defense will be switched up to look something like this:

Maloney - Jonsson
Norstrom - Rautakallio/Galley
Lefebvre - Rautakallio/Galley
(Evans if I can find enough on him to bump Lefebvre)

As for Quenneville, a record of winning like his - even if it's mainly regular season- is fairly impressive to me. We knew there would be questions, which is why we supported him with a very solid assistant.

I'll have to get back to you on Sheppard once I talk to Mark, he strongly influenced that pick.

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07-13-2010, 05:03 PM
  #122
TheDevilMadeMe
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Florida Hammerheads mini-review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedberg View Post
Marc Tardif (A) - Craig Janney - Dolly Swift
Robert McDougall - Paul Haynes - Bruce Ridpath
Bob Gracie - Moose Watson - Joe Lamb
Stan Jonathan - Samuel Pahlsson - Anders Kallur
Sergei Nemchinov - Ran McDonald

Howard McNamara (C) - Duncan Keith
Haldor Halderson - Phat Wilson (A)
Miroslav Dvorak - Kjell Samuelsson
Jim Morrison

Bill Ranford
Eddie Johnston

Coach: Frank Patrick

PP1: Marc Tardif - Craig Janney - Dolly Swift - Howard McNamara - Duncan Keith
PP2: Robert McDougall - Paul Haynes - Joe Lamb - Haldor Halderson - Phat Wilson
PK1: Samuel Pahlsson - Anders Kallur - Howard McNamara - Duncan Keith
PK2: Bob Gracie - Joe Lamb - Miroslav Dvorak - Kjell Samuelsson
A few quick comments:

-First line brings a lot of offense, but I'd prefer a dominating physical player like Bertuzzi to play next to a real softie like Janney. Tardif and Swift are adequate puckwinners, of course, but the line might get in trouble against a more physical defense.

-Check out Pelletier's bio on Haynes - he apparently has significant defensive credentials in addition to his playmaking. He was near the top of our list for 2nd line centers.

-Where do you get that Joe Lamb can kill penalties? I see him as a tough guy who can score. Haynes might be a better option (or maybe someone else would)

-1st D pair is strong. Keith could be an ATD spare next year with a strong start to the season. McNamara was huge and physical and put up points.

-I share Billy's concerns about the 2nd pair being made of two puck movers. Good PP pair, but at even strength there might be issues. Especially given the fact that Phat Wilson was a career amateur in an era where all the best players were in the pros. (Though Wilson must be in the HHOF for a reason).

-On the other hand, the Dallas Stars won the Cup in 99 with 2 puck movers on their 2nd pair.

-McNamara and Samuelsson given you a ridiculous 1-2 punch of giants.

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07-13-2010, 05:38 PM
  #123
Hedberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post

-Where do you get that Joe Lamb can kill penalties? I see him as a tough guy who can score. Haynes might be a better option (or maybe someone else would)
Good idea considering Lamb will probably be in the box the most of anyone outside of Jonathan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
-I share Billy's concerns about the 2nd pair being made of two puck movers. Good PP pair, but at even strength there might be issues. Especially given the fact that Phat Wilson was a career amateur in an era where all the best players were in the pros. (Though Wilson must be in the HHOF for a reason).
What about:
Halderson - Samuelsson
Dvorak - Wilson

Or is Samuelsson (or Dvorak) unable the handle the minutes with this set up?

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Old
07-13-2010, 06:18 PM
  #124
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post


Texas Brahmas

coach: Bryan Murray
captain: Art Farrell
alternates: Mike Keane, Jamie Macoun

Jim Riley - Don Smith - Andrei Khomutov
Thomas Vanek - Normie Himes - Art Farrell (C)
Jack Marks - Billy Reay - Mike Keane (A)
Joe Juneau - Terry Ruskowski - Jim Peplinski
Harry Meeking, Billy Harris



Jamie Macoun (A) - Randy Gregg
Alexei Gusarov - Dave Babych
Karel Gut - Doug Young
Roland Stoltz

Ryan Miller
Viktor Zinger
I am doing this on my phone while out, so I may have to save by hitting send. If so, I will be back to finish it later, so watch this space.

Bryan Murray is a below average MLD coach. Probably could not have done much better, but you definitely missed out on the very best.

Farrell is an excellent captain. He'd be my choice. Keane is a no-brainer coice for assistant. After that, if your goal was to separate the letters, Macoun was probably your best bet. Nice choices.

I am the guy who introduced us to Don Smith, so I like seeing him get this kind of respect. If it wasn't for the larger ATD and MLD this time, I'd say he was a bit out of place as a first liner. But he's passable. And you got great value by waiting so long, too. Riley is a guy I'd personally not have taken. We know he had two good goalscoring seasons in the pcha, but was not an assist guy. We know nothing (yet) about how he played. And the nature of the pcha was such that the 2nd place guy would often be closer to 7th than he was first. (I don't have the leaderboards right here though) - we like other guys who had seasons like that, yes, but they had 5-10 of them, not just two... Classic AAA winger though. My other concern is that smith and riley are both much better scorers than playmakers. How is Khomutov's playmaking? Can he be an effective primary puck distributor on a first line in the MLD, when his counterparts on many other teams are guys with multiple NHL top-10s?

Vanek was another guy you got really good value on. Himes may not look like that great a second liner to some people based on finishes, but you've got to remember he was a one-man show and a pretty gamey two-way player. Farrell is tough to get a read on as far as what kind of player he really was. His linemates are easier to read. Farrell can be a complementary secnd line guy if you ask me. His emphasis on teamwork and his status as perhaps the game's first true scholar ensures that. As long as you believe this line has grit by committee, then it's a great second line.

Good to see Jack Marks where he belongs: on an MLD 3rd line. There are plenty of quotes supporting his value as a backchecker and team player. Billy Reay is probably the best 3rd line center in the draft when you consider his overall offensive and defensive value. Keane is an excellent 3rd liner too. Not elite defensively and below average offensively, but such great career value borne of lots of winning, hard work, tough, gritty play, and leadership. I really, really like this third line. But I'm not sure it was wise taking Keane so early. He just won't impact your squad as much as guys getting more minutes.

Your fourth line is loaded with leadership and some offense. It's really tough to judge what kind of offensive contribution Joe Juneau will make. But all three are very responsible players who will bring a real lunchpail attitude to the fourth line, particularly Ruskowski and Peplinski. Good job letting Peplinski fall all the way from an ATD staple, to an MLD 4th line where he should remain. Good patience.

I question the strategy of making two players who were rarely top pairing players, top pairing guys in the MLD. Macoun was ranked 2, 2, 5, 5, 4, 3, 3, 3, 2, 2, 1, 3, 5, 3, 5, 7 in icetime on his team. (average of best 8 seasons: 2.25) Gregg was 5, 3, 5, 3, 2, 7, 5, 3, 8 on his (admittedly, usually deep) teams (4.13 avg). But Dave Babych was ranked 1, 1, 1, 1, 2 (behind Carlyle), 3 (Carlyle, Ellett), 2 (Samuelsson), 2 (Samuelsson), 2 (Samuelsson), 1, 6, 3, 1, 4, 1, 2, 3, 8, 8 in his career in icetime. This is your #1 guy - a guy who actually was a #1, seven times and a #2 five times (8y avg: 1.13). Gusarov, in case you are wondering, ranked 6, 2, 3, 2, 5, 3, 3, 4, 5, 4, 3 (avg: 3.00) I urge you to make Dave Babych a #1 defenseman. He's better than Macoun and Gregg; his coaches knew it.

Great 3rd pairing - Young is a guy I'd have considered if I didn't keep getting the chance to snipe guys like Arbour and Hillman. I can't believe you have the luxury of having Stoltz as a 7th guy. Sell me that Gut, one of your personal favourites, is better than Stoltz. Rollie was a giant who intimidated people at the worlds and put up great numbers without the riverboat gambler reputation Gut had.

If Duncan Keith is an MLD defenseman, then Ryan Miller is an MLD goalie - barely. He's a below-average starter, but you waited to get a goalie so you surely weren't expecting lots to be left. I wish I knew more about Zinger, but I'm pretty sure his work with the National team makes him a worthy MLD backup.

Overall, it's a team that makes me give major thumbs up in some areas, yet scratch my head in other areas. Seeing Babych become the #1 defenseman, and seeing some solid evidence of Khomutov's playmaking would ease my concerns a lot. Only one guy makes me say "wow, good job getting that guy in that role!" and that is Reay. Only one guy makes me say, "really? That guy?" and that is Riley.


Last edited by seventieslord: 07-13-2010 at 11:18 PM.
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Old
07-13-2010, 08:27 PM
  #125
markrander87
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Regarding Sheppard here is the link showing he is LW http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=4918

More to come tomorrow once I get to work, I have to settle in and catch the Hills.

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