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Panthers 10/11 season a lottery finish?

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Old
07-06-2010, 10:22 AM
  #26
RainingRats
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I'm not familiar with the top forwards in the draft but assuming there is one that has franchise potential, finishing last accelerates our rebuild. The biggest problem over the last decade is never being able to pick that franchise forward and always just being bad but not horrible.

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07-06-2010, 10:25 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by ShootIt View Post
If we had a legit 2nd line center I would say we would have a shot at the playoffs as long as the team would stay relatively healthy. Ie, not losing Booth for just about the entire year and having two top 6 forwards out for a lengthy time (horton and Booth).

Personally, I would like to see younger players get more playing time this season unless they truly stink up Preseason/camp.
Like Grabner on the top 6, trading off Stillman and Dvo so maybe Repik can grab a top 9 role etc.
See what we got in these prospects, shed some salary and if we suck with them, hey we might get a top 3 pick again.

For some reason I always hold out that our younger players will step up the following year. It's really the only reason why I'm looking forward to watching next season. Hopefully Matthias wins the 2nd line role if we don't bring anyone in, Frolik improves to a top line winger etc.
1) We have a legit 2nd line center. His name is Stephen Weiss. What we don't have is a legit 1st line center. Unfortunately the center in this UFA class are abysmal and not worth making an effort. I'm glad Lombardi was eaten up by the Preds, because he's not a guy I'd throw $10.5 million at.

2) Injuries happen. By some universal anomaly, they happen more often to the Panthers than to many other teams. And at this point in time we just don't have the depth to succeed if an injury may happen to one of our top producers. Who's our #1 defenseman if McCabe goes down for more than a few weeks? Kulikov is not even 20 years old yet, and although he looked good his first year, he's still not ready for 25-30 minutes a game. Who's our #1 center if Weiss goes down? Matthias? He's so overrated on this forum it astounds me. He's good for 35 points next year. Hardly a top line center, even as a stopgap.

3) I, also, would like to see our vets traded off for future assets. They're not going to help this team win a cup, so send them to teams who can make put them to better use and let the Grabners, Dadonovs, Repiks, Ellerbys and Gudbransons get a taste for what the bigs are really all about. Most of them have certainly had plenty of seasoning at lower levels. Let them get experience and gel together as the future core of this team, then bring in more highly talented first round picks to round out the team and sign that elusive one big name free agent as the icing on the cake.

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07-06-2010, 10:29 AM
  #28
adam graves
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i would like to know if there are any season ticket holders on this board rooting for another epic failure year willing to pay and sit through an 11th yr of failure in order to get a lottery pick?

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07-06-2010, 10:34 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
i would like to know if there are any season ticket holders on this board rooting for another epic failure year willing to pay and sit through an 11th yr of failure in order to get a lottery pick?
I want to say that it would be like taking one step back and a leap forward to get a lottery pick but at this point we're against the wall and can't get much worse. If we finish around 10th it will not propel us further faster than if we get the #1/2 pick which could potentially rocket us into being a decent team.

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07-06-2010, 10:35 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
I'm not familiar with the top forwards in the draft but assuming there is one that has franchise potential, finishing last accelerates our rebuild. The biggest problem over the last decade is never being able to pick that franchise forward and always just being bad but not horrible.
Yup. Unfortunately for the Panthers we've been abysmal at all the wrong times. Instead of guys like Malkin, Ovechkin, Crosby, Kane, Toews, and maybe even Hall/Seguin we get guys like Horton, Bouwmeester and Gudbranson. That's not to say they're not talented in their own respect, but to borrow and perpetuate a phrase that's thrown around far too often they're not "generational talents" like the named players above.

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07-06-2010, 11:00 AM
  #31
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the reason that we are going to finish at the bottom of the East is with our roster we can't compete with

Philly, Pittsburgh, Washington, Montreal, Boston, Ottawa, NJ, Buffalo...atlanta? NY? and dare I say it Tampa...


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07-06-2010, 11:36 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Tranq View Post
the reason that we are going to finish at the bottom of the East is with our roster we can't compete with

Philly, Pittsburgh, Washington, Montreal, Boston, Ottawa, NJ, Buffalo...atlanta? NY? and dare I say it Tampa...
Agreed. I just can't put my finger on 8 teams in the Eastern Conference we're out and out better than.

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07-06-2010, 11:46 AM
  #33
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Looks like another depressing season..

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07-06-2010, 11:53 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Clint View Post
Yup. Unfortunately for the Panthers we've been abysmal at all the wrong times. Instead of guys like Malkin, Ovechkin, Crosby, Kane, Toews, and maybe even Hall/Seguin we get guys like Horton, Bouwmeester and Gudbranson. That's not to say they're not talented in their own respect, but to borrow and perpetuate a phrase that's thrown around far too often they're not "generational talents" like the named players above.
hey hey hey.... lets not jump to conclusions here... i see him as a chris phillips type player but greeeeeat character... natural born leader. he will be our captain. we havent seen him play properely yet

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07-06-2010, 12:05 PM
  #35
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If we're fully healthy, I think we could sneak into the playoffs. Horton, while an important offensive player for us, only contributed 20 goals last year. In a worst case scenario, you'd have to think Grabner and Bernier combined can at least produce that. Campbell and Kreps were useless when it came to scoring, so their replacements can basically only do better. However, our vets (e.g. Stillman, Reinprecht, McCabe) are a year older and could decline a lot.

That being said, there will probably be injuries, and that is what would give us a lottery pick. We wouldn't have drafted 3rd this year were it not for the injuries that occurred. If key players go down with injuries, I don't see how we could overcome that.


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Old
07-06-2010, 12:21 PM
  #36
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Yeah, as of right now, we are pretty bad. I think we will get one more top 4 D and a center, but I wouldn't expect anything groundbreaking. At least I hope not(like Frolik traded). We will probably have a lineup where if we stay healthy all season, we could sneak into the playoffs, however as others have said that's not realistic. For example if Weiss and Booth or Frolik and Wideman go down for an extended amount of time, we're done for. It's not that we are some terrible team, but you don't really have to be that bad anymore to be a lottery team. The parity in the league now is unlike it's ever been. Even the Oilers weren't that bad last season compared to some previous #30 overall teams.

I don't see any way where we finish ahead of Pit, Was, Phi, NJ, Bos, Buf, Ott, Mtl, and Atl. We have a shot at finishing ahead of Tor, NYR, NYI, TB, and Car. Although I think Tor and TB finish ahead of us. Right now, I see the real contenders for the worst in the east with us right now as being NYI, NYR, and Car. If we don't improve significantly before opening night, the best thing would be for us to finish 15th in the East and better yet 30th overall. Because we will not make the playoffs. NYR really scare me because if Gaborik or Lundqvist goes down I could see them really plummet to the basement.

In the west, I really only see Edm and Clb as contenders with us for 30th overall. Every other team looks like it should finish ahead of us even being in the West. So yeah, I could definitely see us being a lotto team.

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07-06-2010, 12:26 PM
  #37
Desert Panther
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint View Post
Yup. Unfortunately for the Panthers we've been abysmal at all the wrong times. Instead of guys like Malkin, Ovechkin, Crosby, Kane, Toews, and maybe even Hall/Seguin we get guys like Horton, Bouwmeester and Gudbranson. That's not to say they're not talented in their own respect, but to borrow and perpetuate a phrase that's thrown around far too often they're not "generational talents" like the named players above.
If you recall, Bouw was considered a "generational talent" before he was drafted. Comparisons to Orr and Coffey abounded. A combination of the Panthers' mismanagement of his development and the fact his personality equates with that of a toadstool caused that to be a huge fail. Horton was never considered a generational talent (you're correct there). Guds? Who knows.

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07-06-2010, 12:28 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by whoisournextbure View Post
hey hey hey.... lets not jump to conclusions here... i see him as a chris phillips type player but greeeeeat character... natural born leader. he will be our captain. we havent seen him play properely yet
Listen, I like Gudbranson as much as the next guy around here. But let's be honest, he's not a Lidstrom, or a Niedermayer, or a Pronger, or a Doughty, or a Keith. Like you say, he's a defenseman in the mold of Chris Phillips, and there's nothing wrong with that. Phillips is one of the most underrated defensemen in the game; solid as a rock in the back-end.

However, what Gudbranson (and Phillips) is not, is a game-changer. He's probably not going to be the guy that absolutely takes control of both ends of the ice and wills his team to victory on his back alone. You can talk about character and leadership until you're blue in the face but Gudbranson, for all his steadiness, maturity, and positive attributes, is not a generational talent.

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07-06-2010, 01:06 PM
  #39
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If we DO make the playoffs with this team, it will be because the chemistry is surprisingly great and we repeat something like 96.

...but I'm on the loss of Horton and Ballard and Campbell as being a bad, bad thing.

Sucks to be broke....or cheap.

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07-06-2010, 01:39 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
i would like to know if there are any season ticket holders on this board rooting for another epic failure year willing to pay and sit through an 11th yr of failure in order to get a lottery pick?
not this one...

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07-06-2010, 01:44 PM
  #41
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I think this coming season is going to almost like a test of what each player on the roster can bring to the growth and development of the team as well as what they need to compete in the future. I think the chance of playoffs are extremely slim and I'd agree that we will likely finish with about the same record as last season. If, and that is a BIG if the entire team stays healthy for a very large part of the season, I believe they "could" have success similar to Colorado & Phoenix last season and sneak into the playoffs, but I'd seriously doubt it.

If we don't make it, I won't be as upset in years past because I have faith in the future of this team in 2-3 years to become a real contender and could compete with teams like the Pens, Caps, Flyers, Devils, Bruins, and Habs with Tallon in rebuild mode. So, like season I will root for them to keep winning as many games as possible until it gets to the point probably around February where it becomes so unlikely that playoffs are a possibility, my mind will be in full-tank mode. I do think Tallon will make a couple of more signings and he's not done just yet.

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07-06-2010, 03:12 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by MickOlax View Post
Could be a lottery pick or could be playoffs (think of Phoenix, Colorado).

-L-
Colorado and Phoenix got new coaches that were a big part of their turn arounds. DeBoer didn't pull any miracles out of his hat last year, not much reason to expect it'll happen this year.

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07-06-2010, 04:46 PM
  #43
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Colorado and Phoenix got new coaches that were a big part of their turn arounds. DeBoer didn't pull any miracles out of his hat last year, not much reason to expect it'll happen this year.
I'm sorry, but there isn't a coach in the world who will pull a rabbit out of his hat with this roster.

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07-06-2010, 05:37 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by whoisournextbure View Post
hey hey hey.... lets not jump to conclusions here... i see him as a chris phillips type player but greeeeeat character... natural born leader. he will be our captain. we havent seen him play properely yet
Uhm... Chris Phillips isn't a franchise player or a generational talent either. That was his point.

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07-06-2010, 05:49 PM
  #45
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Colorado and Phoenix got new coaches that were a big part of their turn arounds. DeBoer didn't pull any miracles out of his hat last year, not much reason to expect it'll happen this year.
It's not just about the head coach though, not anymore. Now we have a Vise Pres. of hockey operations/General Manager who actually knows what they are doing and knows how to build a successful franchise. Yes, we do need a compatent head coach to run the show and get the players to play a sound hockey game, but now we have a GM who has come out and said "If you don't want to win in Florida and give everything you got,then you're gone!" and he'll actually back up that statement. That's the most important part, having someone in our management who backs up their words, and not just talks too much. I think Deboer can get this team to the playoffs, it's just a matter of whether or not this team WANTS to be in the playoffs. Deboer did a wonderful job in his 1st year with the Panthers, and I think the entire organization from top to bottom struggled last season, but I think Deboer can do it.

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07-06-2010, 06:21 PM
  #46
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I think it is stupid to say we are going to tank next season. I understand that it would be awesome to get a high draft pick for rebuilding but c'mon. This organization and the coaching staff are not going to go out of their way to lose games and I'm sure the players are not going to want to lose. I thought one of the things Tallon wants to hit home is a winning attitude right? If we can avoid serious injuries to key players and develop a great chemistry on the team we might be better than you think.

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07-06-2010, 06:22 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
i would like to know if there are any season ticket holders on this board rooting for another epic failure year willing to pay and sit through an 11th yr of failure in order to get a lottery pick?
/raises hand

I'd rather have another year like this past one than have another year like 2008-9.

I'd rather have another year like this past one than have Tallon sell assets for a playoff quickie.

I'd rather that this team be a winner... a cup contender... right now than any of the above. That's not realistic. No depth. Too many holes.

If we can have one more trade deadline/draft like this past one, this team will have the richest prospect pipeline in the NHL. Trading Vokoun, McCabe, Higgins and Stillman at the deadline will leave the team flush with picks/prospects. With the infrastructure being set up to properly develop these prospects, Florida will be able to regularly compete with the top organizations. That's what I want most... A perennial cup contender.

I can take one more year of playoff drought. I can't take a playoff quickie followed by several more years of this crap. I want a team with a great future. Do it the right way, Tallon. I can wait.

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07-06-2010, 07:26 PM
  #48
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I can admit that I have been negative, but I will let this team get a shot. If Frolik can improve to a 30 goal scorer and Booth gets back to his old self, we could take a 7th or 8th spot in the east. It will be hard to replace a player like Horton, but Higgins was a nice adding to our squad. We will see around christmas times what is best for this team, but Carolina had a sick run last year after christman. Never say never..

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07-06-2010, 07:38 PM
  #49
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/raises hand

I'd rather have another year like this past one than have another year like 2008-9.
UHHHH....minus Booth getting a massive concussion, a defenseman (won't be Ballard) nearly taking Vokoun's head off in frustration at a bad play, and the coach not being able to come up with any solutions to a lack of offense while Vokoun plays some of the best hockey of his life. Right? You don't want to see another year QUITE like the last one, right?

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07-06-2010, 08:43 PM
  #50
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I can admit that I have been negative, but I will let this team get a shot. If Frolik can improve to a 30 goal scorer and Booth gets back to his old self, we could take a 7th or 8th spot in the east.
I agree that Frolik and Booth will be the keys to any possible success unless there are more changes. Frolik has the potential and will have to take his game to another level and score 30+. Booth just has to stay in the lineup. Both are big question marks, but it could happen.

Defense...well, Vokoun will bail them out this season, and have another great season. I don't think Vokoun is a key because he has been consistently great as a Panther except for some slow starts.

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