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Halak signs in St. Louis.

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Old
07-06-2010, 02:58 PM
  #51
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by bipolarhabfan View Post
Trading Price would be a huge blunder. Price's stats were comparable to Halak's,he had zero support last season, and played most of his games when Markov was out. Halak had a great run for about a few months and we should award him with such a deal? Does one playoff run make him a #1 goalie? No.

And, you make trading Hamer and/or Kosty sound so easy. It is not like we could dump them without receiving a hefty contract in return that would not allow us to sign a UFA.

IMHO, St. Louis is taking a major risk with this contract.
Pure conjecture. Halak has proven himself as a #1, Price has not and to me doesn't look like he has the mental makeup or the glovehand. His lack of positioning and overplaying the puck and puck tracking can all be improved as well.

The contract he signed was very reasonable and I don't see the risk you are talking about. He routinely proved himself. He is the real deal.

I don't care who signed off on this, it was a giant blunder.

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07-06-2010, 03:09 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Pure conjecture. Halak has proven himself as a #1, Price has not and to me doesn't look like he has the mental makeup or the glovehand. His lack of positioning and overplaying the puck and puck tracking can all be improved as well.
Carey Price still had a respectable 0.912% seemingly without even trying. That puts him in the category of guys like Niemi, Rinne and Luongo this season, who are all starting goalies in this league. The kid can play at an elite level once he finally decided to improve his work ethic and started to practice hard and do extra drills (post-Olympic break, see the game logs).

Everyone is seriously underestimating how talented the kid is. His work ethic/attitude was the biggest question mark but it looks like he finally got the message.

Yes, the kid is VERY emotional and I do question whether he can reach his full potential in a big hockey market like Montreal, but honestly he has decent numbers for a 22-year old kid with the most pressure on his shoulders than any other goalie. Price had an interesting quote about facing adversity from a few years ago, he said "Professional players do something about it and the rest give up." Hopefully, he's in the former....

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07-06-2010, 03:14 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Pure conjecture. Halak has proven himself as a #1, Price has not and to me doesn't look like he has the mental makeup or the glovehand. His lack of positioning and overplaying the puck and puck tracking can all be improved as well.

The contract he signed was very reasonable and I don't see the risk you are talking about. He routinely proved himself. He is the real deal.

I don't care who signed off on this, it was a giant blunder.
Halak has started 96 NHL games over 4 years. How exactly is he proven? Blues are taking a gamble that Halak can be as good, or at least almost as good, as he was this year for the next 4 years. I personally think Halak will be above average and earn his contract, but to suggest it will happen for sure is just untrue.

The ironic thing is that both Halak and Price are somewhat unproven, they have played similar #s of games with similar career stats and have both had some hot streaks, yet people are arguing that one is proven and one isn't? Either they both are or they both aren't...

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07-06-2010, 03:25 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Savynquick View Post
That's the contract Montreal didn't want to give him? Wow that's a nice number for a guy that good. Sort of surprised that was a figure Montreal didn't like.
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=165

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07-06-2010, 03:59 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Should have traded Price with AK or Hammer, went out and signed a UFA and then signed Halak for 3.75 or 3.5. He might have taken that from us.

So, we save less than a mil and are stuck with Price.

Halak is a proven #1.

This is disgusting. Why are the Molson Bros. allowing this incompetent fool run this team? Clean house now!
How much did you think reasonable replacements for AK46 and Hammer were going to cost you? If you are serious you then would have a reliable cap friendly solution that does not include burying players in the AHL? Cause I am sure it has been discussed and the most reasonable thing seems to do is let Hammer play out his contract, he is a useful top 4 d-man and treading AK46 to who for who exactly, his value is at an career low so what let him go for a 2nd and hope no one else notices? People here would lose their minds if they traded AK for a pick, he's a 25 goal guy that plays like he is on another planet most nights. i see no problem being "stuck" with Price, it is not a negative situation for the team, however keeping the guy that gave you an ultimatum during the season would be a negative. The two guys that were the most vocal about not being happy with the playing situation they were in are no longer on the team, Kudos to management for that.

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07-06-2010, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by habfan1968 View Post
... and treading AK46 to who for who exactly, his value is at an career low so what let him go for a 2nd and hope no one else notices?...
Glad for Halak.

Trade Kostitsyn in Nov/Dec, which is usually when he performs. Get it done Pierre.

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07-06-2010, 05:18 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by habfan1968 View Post
How much did you think reasonable replacements for AK46 and Hammer were going to cost you? If you are serious you then would have a reliable cap friendly solution that does not include burying players in the AHL? Cause I am sure it has been discussed and the most reasonable thing seems to do is let Hammer play out his contract, he is a useful top 4 d-man and treading AK46 to who for who exactly, his value is at an career low so what let him go for a 2nd and hope no one else notices? People here would lose their minds if they traded AK for a pick, he's a 25 goal guy that plays like he is on another planet most nights. i see no problem being "stuck" with Price, it is not a negative situation for the team, however keeping the guy that gave you an ultimatum during the season would be a negative. The two guys that were the most vocal about not being happy with the playing situation they were in are no longer on the team, Kudos to management for that.
Very Ronald Corey-esque if you ask me.

Yes, he did give an ultimatum. But he was being screwed over by Martin. The kid was standing on his head repeatedly and Martin kept going back to Price for long stretches. Price also played well in spurts, but he was nowhere near the level Halak showed.

And Halak had the mental fortitude to come back every time and deliver elite goaltending. Not just a suitable backup or a good starter, but elite. He's clearly a franchise goalie (hello, remember the Olympics?).

This is beating a dead horse.

Halak's contract is eminently reasonable and Price will be approaching a similar contract if he puts up half-decent numbers because his ceiling is higher (literally, he's taller). Ridiculous.

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07-06-2010, 05:23 PM
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I'm really glad we went out last year got gomez, spacek ect ect and then couldn't afford this guy. I'm absolutely thrilled by it.

Where are all the Gainey fan boys who assured us so-called alarmists that we weren't in any trouble cap wise and keeping both goalies would be a cake walk. Where did they all go. I'm sure they'll just change their tune now and pretend this was the direction which would best suit our hockey team.

What a load of crap.

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07-06-2010, 05:23 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by habfan1968 View Post
How much did you think reasonable replacements for AK46 and Hammer were going to cost you? If you are serious you then would have a reliable cap friendly solution that does not include burying players in the AHL? Cause I am sure it has been discussed and the most reasonable thing seems to do is let Hammer play out his contract, he is a useful top 4 d-man and treading AK46 to who for who exactly, his value is at an career low so what let him go for a 2nd and hope no one else notices? People here would lose their minds if they traded AK for a pick, he's a 25 goal guy that plays like he is on another planet most nights. i see no problem being "stuck" with Price, it is not a negative situation for the team, however keeping the guy that gave you an ultimatum during the season would be a negative. The two guys that were the most vocal about not being happy with the playing situation they were in are no longer on the team, Kudos to management for that.
Markov-Subban
Spacek-O'Byrne (another guy Martin screwed over)
Gill-Gorges
whoever

I think that works.

I'm sure AK had some value, especially when bundled with Price after a sign-and-trade. Hammer could be tacked on or dumped for a pick as you say.

Then we keep Halak AND get a top 6 UFA forward.

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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I'm really glad we went out last year got gomez, spacek ect ect and then couldn't afford this guy. I'm absolutely thrilled by it.

Where are all the Gainey fan boys who assured us so-called alarmists that we weren't in any trouble cap wise and keeping both goalies would be a cake walk. Where did they all go. I'm sure they'll just change their tune now and pretend this was the direction which would best suit our hockey team.

What a load of crap.
I don't think the issue is money. They chose Price.

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07-06-2010, 05:27 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Pure conjecture. Halak has proven himself as a #1, Price has not and to me doesn't look like he has the mental makeup or the glovehand. His lack of positioning and overplaying the puck and puck tracking can all be improved as well.

The contract he signed was very reasonable and I don't see the risk you are talking about. He routinely proved himself. He is the real deal.

I don't care who signed off on this, it was a giant blunder.

Before you annoint him as some kind of superstar, let's give Halak a year or two...and then we'll talk...he is an average goalie that had a hot streak in the playoffs...in my opinion, I don't think he will ever be that good again... against the Flyers he was very average at best.

And let's give Price a break and see what he does in the same time period...he will prove you wrong no doubt!

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07-06-2010, 05:34 PM
  #61
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That's the contract Montreal didn't want to give him? Wow that's a nice number for a guy that good. Sort of surprised that was a figure Montreal didn't like.
Remembering, of course, that he would have been given a 1 - maybe 2 - year contract through arbitration. Next year Halak is playing for $2.75M... To imagine, Habs could have had him next year for even less than that. Great deal for the Blues, and yeah, surprised that management didn't even contact him about the possibility of playing in Montreal (even if just next year, and even IF it was one year at his new cap hit of $3.75M) for that money. Obviously less about the money and more about making their chosen one's bed more comfortable in Montreal, anticipating that it will make his life easier and help his development.

Oh, and let's go Eller and Boyd...

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07-06-2010, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Very Ronald Corey-esque if you ask me.

Yes, he did give an ultimatum. But he was being screwed over by Martin. The kid was standing on his head repeatedly and Martin kept going back to Price for long stretches. Price also played well in spurts, but he was nowhere near the level Halak showed.

And Halak had the mental fortitude to come back every time and deliver elite goaltending. Not just a suitable backup or a good starter, but elite. He's clearly a franchise goalie (hello, remember the Olympics?).

This is beating a dead horse.

Halak's contract is eminently reasonable and Price will be approaching a similar contract if he puts up half-decent numbers because his ceiling is higher (literally, he's taller). Ridiculous.

In spite of all your rationale...the Habs were offered more for Price than they got for Halak...and yes...they chose to keep Price....so that tells me that it was not only the Habs that have said Price has a much higher upside...

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07-06-2010, 05:40 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Bob in Niagara View Post
Before you annoint him as some kind of superstar, let's give Halak a year or two...and then we'll talk...he is an average goalie that had a hot streak in the playoffs...in my opinion, I don't think he will ever be that good again... against the Flyers he was very average at best.

And let's give Price a break and see what he does in the same time period...he will prove you wrong no doubt!
I thought he was fine against the Flyers, we just played like little girls.

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07-06-2010, 05:41 PM
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I thought he was fine against the Flyers, we just played like little girls.

He was nowhere near as good as he was in the first two series...not even close

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07-06-2010, 05:46 PM
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He was nowhere near as good as he was in the first two series...not even close
If you know of any player who has more left in the tank when the ECFs roll around than when the playoffs are just beginning, I suggest we sign THAT guy.

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07-06-2010, 05:49 PM
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If you know of any player who has more left in the tank when the ECFs roll around than when the playoffs are just beginning, I suggest we sign THAT guy.

What kind of excuse is that? He sagged big time and was not nearly as dependable against the Flyers...so that tells me that he played average at best...we will not win a cup with a goalie like that

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07-06-2010, 05:50 PM
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He was nowhere near as good as he was in the first two series...not even close
Maybe because those were two of the greatest goaltending performances of all time? What happens if this guy is really a $6 million dollar goalie and we could have had him for less than 4? Nobody is asking that question.

Heads will roll, that's what.

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07-06-2010, 05:51 PM
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Halak was prevented to play in favour of Price.
Now you are using this against him.
Most commonly found argument against Halak is that he only had "one good half season and playoffs"... you know, as if he was totally incapable of doing any of this the entire time he has been on the bench watching Huet and then Price get first dibs before he finally got a real shot. In his first real shot in the limelight this year, Halak showed what he is already capable of at 25 (in all of the regular season, Olympics, and then the playoffs), and the Blues aren't really paying that much to take a "chance" on him.

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07-06-2010, 05:53 PM
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Maybe because those were two of the greatest goaltending performances of all time?

Come on....who are we kidding? How old are you? He was good...but there have been many better...and will continue to be...

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Maybe because those were two of the greatest goaltending performances of all time? What happens if this guy is really a $6 million dollar goalie and we could have had him for less than 4? Nobody is asking that question.

Heads will roll, that's what.
And what happens if he sucks.....??? Like I said, let's wait a couple years and then we can talk....

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07-06-2010, 06:01 PM
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And what happens if he sucks.....??? Like I said, let's wait a couple years and then we can talk....
he has at least as much chance being very good than not...

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07-06-2010, 06:01 PM
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it would of costed us 750k to 1M more per year

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07-06-2010, 06:02 PM
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What kind of excuse is that? He sagged big time and was not nearly as dependable against the Flyers...so that tells me that he played average at best...we will not win a cup with a goalie like that
Sure he sagged, but "big time"? I guess, if you compare it to his own personal highs in the same post season. As "poor" as he was during the Philly series, he was still on par with Fleury and Luongo's stats for their entire first 2 rounds (everyone loves a good Fleury/Luongo comparison, right?). After doing what he had to do in the first 2 series (good enough that he still ended with the best playoff stats among goaltenders), I'd imagine it was extra deflating (on top of the obvious fatigue, which is obviously the most he has ever had to deal with) to see the team in front of him score 7 goals in 5 games, leaving it all up to him AGAIN. If you don't think he'll turn that experience into positive development going forward, you must not know much about Jaroslav Halak.

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it would of costed us 750k to 1M more per year
And if I say that arbitration would have awarded him 750K to 1M LESS, how are we going to figure out who's "right"?

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07-06-2010, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Maybe because those were two of the greatest goaltending performances of all time? What happens if this guy is really a $6 million dollar goalie and we could have had him for less than 4? Nobody is asking that question.

Heads will roll, that's what.
No they were not. People have very short memories or are too young to have enough comparables. Yes, they were very good performances, but greatest ever? No way!

As for your question, same could be said about Price. Halak is still unproven. He as proven that he gets tired easily and needs breaks to help him and rebound. Let's see how good he is in 2 years. Until then, he is as unproven as a full time number 1 than Price, who actually, as more NHL games played than Halak. One good half season does not make a career. Far from it.

I like Halak, but I don't fuly trust that he will be great. I suspect a goalie between 10-20 in the league in the long run. You do know that goalie equipment rules are changing next year and will favor bigger goalies? Equipment and jersey and everything will have to fit tight and will be measured based on your size. Small goalies will look smaller. Something that nobody knows how it will affect goalies, but certainly not good for a very small guy like Halak.

Anyways, nobody really knows what will happen, but I prefer to trust real NHL people (Habs management) and guys like Scoty Bowman to prefer Price over any internet Joe out there.

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07-06-2010, 06:07 PM
  #74
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Halak has started 96 NHL games over 4 years. How exactly is he proven? Blues are taking a gamble that Halak can be as good, or at least almost as good, as he was this year for the next 4 years. I personally think Halak will be above average and earn his contract, but to suggest it will happen for sure is just untrue.

The ironic thing is that both Halak and Price are somewhat unproven, they have played similar #s of games with similar career stats and have both had some hot streaks, yet people are arguing that one is proven and one isn't? Either they both are or they both aren't...
difference between the two is Halak did very well in the Olympics, already played (played well that is) in pressure situation in the NHL (Huet injury, end of last two seasons - did well in AHL too) while Price have yet to do that...

Neither are at the top that's for sure, but as of right now Price is a step behind.

Wether he'll become as good as Halak or better remain to be seen... for all we know he could be the next Brodeur or the Next Raycroft...

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07-06-2010, 06:07 PM
  #75
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Come on....who are we kidding? How old are you? He was good...but there have been many better...and will continue to be...
Been watching hockey since 1977. We collapsed and let him make all the stops, but our inzone coverage down low was very poor, so he had all those stops to make as well.

His glove is clearly better than Price's and he's way better positionally and down low. And it's night and day when it comes to the mental game.

I can see him being one of the top goalies in the league for years to come.

I just hope we had someone who knows goaltenders help with this decision. I know these guys aren't all that great when it comes to communication.

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