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Halak signs in St. Louis.

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Old
07-06-2010, 09:28 PM
  #101
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsHockey View Post
I think it comes out to a million, million .25 more. too lazy to check.
I'm quite confident in the 5-7% figure, which means that your numbers would be much, much too high unless he had a basketball salary (or you were talking about 15M total vs 16M total or whatever).


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07-06-2010, 09:36 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Go to the main board transactions section. It has been explained in depth in that thread. Works out to between 5-7% difference, if I recall.



If the Habs had a 23 years old and under group of defenders like Erik Johnson, Pietrangelo, Junland, Ian Cole, Polak etc AND Subban but had no goaltending they'd probably be willing to entertain Subban for Halak discussions. Put another way, it's entirely possible that Subban isn't enough to get Eller from St. Louis in this scenario. Doesn't matter how "high" fans are on either guy.
Well there you go, you said it yourself. St.Louis had no goaltending, we had two capable goalies and Habs had no center depth and St.Louis had plenty. Eller is a quality prospect and not a spare part(which Earl the Halak fan implied).

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07-06-2010, 09:55 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Well there you go, you said it yourself. St.Louis had no goaltending, we had two capable goalies and Habs had no center depth and St.Louis had plenty. Eller is a quality prospect and not a spare part(which Earl the Halak fan implied).
The difference being, of course, that St.Louis lacked goaltending, and yet filled that hole by trading a guy from the bottom of their youth depth chart at forward (yes, right now Eller comes after Oshie, Backes, Steen, Perron, and Berglund - probably just above Sonne and McCrae). That makes him pretty close to a spare part on St. Louis' end (and Schultz is DEFINITELY a spare part), which could be what earl was referring to. St. Louis' GM was very polite to talk about PG's shrewd eye in asking for Eller though.

I have high hopes for Eller, don't get me wrong. We've opened up a hole in goal with this deal, though, in favour of whatever 7 NHL games and scouting reports can tell us (plus a guy that will be lucky to challenge Ryan White any time in the future on an NHL depth chart), while St. Louis did absolutely nothing of the sort and got probably the best goalie so far in 2010 (one of the best in 2009/10) in return.

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07-06-2010, 09:58 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
The difference being, of course, that St.Louis lacked goaltending, and yet filled that hole by trading a guy from the bottom of their youth depth chart at forward (yes, right now Eller comes after Oshie, Backes, Steen, Perron, and Berglund - probably just above Sonne and McCrae). That makes him pretty close to a spare part on St. Louis' end (and Schultz is DEFINITELY a spare part), which could be what earl was referring to. St. Louis' GM was very polite to talk about PG's shrewd eye in asking for Eller though.

I have high hopes for Eller, don't get me wrong. We've opened up a hole in goal with this deal, though, in favour of whatever 7 NHL games and scouting reports can tell us (plus a guy that will be lucky to challenge Ryan White any time in the future on an NHL depth chart), while St. Louis did absolutely nothing of the sort and got probably the best goalie so far in 2010 (one of the best in 2009/10) in return.
So if Eller was essentially a spare part because of their forward depth then why did their GM admit that he refused to trade Eller for another goalie(Hedberg if I recall correctly). It would seem that if Eller really were this spare part that their GM would have traded him earlier to fill a clear whole in their lineup.

We've opened a hole in the backend, but we've improved our depth at the forward position which makes relying on our goaltender a little less likely. It's been shown that depth everywhere else in the lineup trumps your goaltending, we've seen this with The Flyers, The Red Wings and recently with the Hawks who have all been successful because of their depth.

As of today we have more depth at center than we've had in years. We also have our best center prospect since Plekanec which is pretty significant because the last time I checked Plekanec plays quite an important role on the team.

Moreover you want to talk about holes. You are a smart guy so let;s take the argument further. Halak signs for 3.75/year with St.Louis. With the 5% tax difference, an adjusted salary in Montreal would mean 4 million per year as 5% of Halak's current contract is roughly 300K a year.

The habs has 12 million in cap space this offseason. 5 went to Plekanec. 4 would have gone to Halak. That's 9 million of 12 used up. That means we have 17 players signed on the roster. Which also means 3 million left to sign 6 players.

Established players get traded for prospects all the time. It's nothing new. Sometimes they pan out, sometimes they don't. Eller was a highly regarded prospect in the blues organization, fans and the gm have acknowledged this. Only time will determine the real value of this trade.


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07-06-2010, 10:02 PM
  #105
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Great contract for St. Louis to lock up one of the best goalies in the league for 4-years.

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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
So if Eller was essentially a spare part because of their forward depth then why did their GM admit that he refused to trade Eller for another goalie(Hedberg if I recall correctly). It would seem that if Eller really were this spare part that their GM would have traded him earlier to fill a clear whole in their lineup.
Are you seriously comparing Hedberg to Halak? Just beacuse you have good depth and are dealing from a point of strength, doesn't mean you just throw them away. Eller is a great prospect. But getting Halak for him was an incredible deal for them. Hedberg is a bum in comparison to what they had before. Hedberg doesn't even compare now.

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07-06-2010, 10:05 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Great contract for St. Louis to lock up one of the best goalies in the league for 4-years.


Are you seriously comparing Hedberg to Halak? Just beacuse you have good depth and are dealing from a point of strength, doesn't mean you just throw them away. Eller is a great prospect. But getting Halak for him was an incredible deal for them. Hedberg is a bum in comparison to what they had before. Hedberg doesn't even compare now.
But he was "spare parts" as earl and ohashi have suggested.

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07-06-2010, 10:06 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Great contract for St. Louis to lock up one of the best goalies in the league for 4-years.


Are you seriously comparing Hedberg to Halak? Just beacuse you have good depth and are dealing from a point of strength, doesn't mean you just throw them away. Eller is a great prospect. But getting Halak for him was an incredible deal for them. Hedberg is a bum in comparison to what they had before. Hedberg doesn't even compare now.
Let's hope it's turns out to be an incredible deal for Montreal.

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07-06-2010, 10:07 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
So if Eller was essentially a spare part because of their forward depth then why did their GM admit that he refused to trade Eller for another goalie(Hedberg if I recall correctly). It would seem that if Eller really were this spare part that their GM would have traded him earlier to fill a clear whole in their lineup.
Well, obviously patience paid off now, didn't it? GMs don't just make deals to make deals, whether they have spare parts or not. Maybe he had an idea that they might be looking at addressing the goaltending in the off season, and simply kept all his assets until that time? Whether he was a "spare part" or not, why would he rush to trade a 20 year old Eller anyway, especially for someone like Hedberg who MIGHT have 3 years left in him if he's lucky?

Montreal hasn't figured this out yet, but just about any asset increases in value over time if it is developed properly and put in positions to succeed or at least showcase what strengths they DO have to the rest of the league.

Put another way, Jay Leno has tonnes of "spare" cars, but he ain't rushing out to trade you one of them for your Civic because there is still the notion of "worth" (even if your Civic is "worth" a lot to you as your only car). And Hedberg ain't worth poo to St. Louis given the direction they're going in. Even Harding, who was the goalie in question, wouldn't be that attractive given the year he had.

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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
But he was "spare parts" as earl and ohashi have suggested.
I've tried not to suggest anything, really. You (and others) are simply having trouble understanding something that deviates from your opinion/assessment, and I've shown you a way across the bridge of understanding (which doesn't necessarily lead to the village of Agreement). MAYBE that's what earl was saying, and if he is, I would have a hard time arguing that he's wrong based on what I outlined above/below (depending on your settings).


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07-06-2010, 10:10 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, obviously patience paid off now, didn't it? GMs don't just make deals to make deals, whether they have spare parts or not. Maybe he had an idea that they might be looking at addressing the goaltending in the off season, and simply kept all his assets until that time? Whether he was a "spare part" or not, why would he rush to trade a 20 year old Eller anyway, especially for someone like Hedberg who MIGHT have 3 years left in him if he's lucky?

Montreal hasn't figured this out yet, but just about any asset increases in value over time if it is developed properly and put in positions to succeed or at least showcase what strengths they DO have to the rest of the league.
But why did he remain patient. Why did he refuse to trade Eller then, but not now? There has to be something in Eller that he saw valuable to begin with in order for him to consider trading for more. If thought Eller could bring in more, then there was a reason. So Eller really isn't a spare part after all is he?

Now couple this with the goalie market around the league isn't that great. Montreal needed to make a choice because of cap space. They either made a hole at their center depth by losing Plekanec or they traded one goalie and improve because the other one in the system isn't as bad as he is being made out to be.

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07-06-2010, 10:11 PM
  #110
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I believe Koseegin mistook Hedberg for Harding, Josh (Minnesota Wild).

Two completely different situations. I remember St. Louis talking about how they balked at trading Eller for Harding.

Quote:
The Montreal Canadiens weren't the only team willing to trade the Blues a goaltender for prospect Lars Eller.

Several NHL sources said the Minnesota Wild recently had offered up goalie Josh Harding, whom the Blues had legitimate interest in last season. But when Minnesota asked for Eller in the deal, the Blues said: "No thanks."
Source: http://more.stltoday.com/stltoday/sp...d?OpenDocument

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07-06-2010, 10:12 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by LOL View Post
I believe Koseegin mistook Hedberg for Harding, Josh (Minnesota Wild).

Two completely different situations. I remember St. Louis talking about how they balked at trading Eller for Harding.
Yes, Harding. Knew it started with a "h" didn't have the article in front of me.

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07-06-2010, 10:18 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, obviously patience paid off now, didn't it? GMs don't just make deals to make deals, whether they have spare parts or not. Maybe he had an idea that they might be looking at addressing the goaltending in the off season, and simply kept all his assets until that time? Whether he was a "spare part" or not, why would he rush to trade a 20 year old Eller anyway, especially for someone like Hedberg who MIGHT have 3 years left in him if he's lucky?

Montreal hasn't figured this out yet, but just about any asset increases in value over time if it is developed properly and put in positions to succeed or at least showcase what strengths they DO have to the rest of the league.

Put another way, Jay Leno has tonnes of "spare" cars, but he ain't rushing out to trade you one of them for your Civic because there is still the notion of "worth" (even if your Civic is "worth" a lot to you as your only car). And Hedberg ain't worth poo to St. Louis given the direction they're going in.



I've tried not to suggest anything, really. You (and others) are simply having trouble understanding something that deviates from your opinion/assessment, and I've shown you a way across the bridge of understanding (which doesn't necessarily lead to the village of Agreement). MAYBE that's what earl was saying, and if he is, I would have a hard time arguing that he's wrong based on what I outlined above/below (depending on your settings).
Ohashi, you write well, but we all know what you mean when you do. There is a clear hidding Halak bias in your writings. You act all high and mighty and "objective" but your personal taste for players plays into your judgement and analysis just as much as anyone else on this forum. Your always quick to comment favorably on the potential and talent of any player of any team expect when comes down to two players: Eller and Price because both have to deal with Halak. You always seem to be skeptic, your "excited, but cautiously optimistic" in the case of the latter to, but postive in the case of others. Of course now you're going to write me another post with empty words to beat around the push and talk about how you do no such and that Halak has proven, Price hasn't and that potential really means nothing, but not actually nothing blah blah.

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07-06-2010, 10:18 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
But he was "spare parts" as earl and ohashi have suggested.
He was a spare part. They have so much depth in St. Louis, as far as young players and prospects go. They had a lot of other guys they could have moved instead, but they clearly felt Eller was the one to move.

If we had 4-5 8.0B forwards coming up (or already up) to go along with the rest of the team, but our goalie is a bottom of the pack starter - would you not trade one of them for an elite goalie? I would every time.

He was a spare part because they were dealing from a position of strength. A spare part doesn't mean a bad part - it means a part that's not needed for your piece of equipment (in this case, team).

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Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
Halak has started 96 NHL games over 4 years. How exactly is he proven? Blues are taking a gamble that Halak can be as good, or at least almost as good, as he was this year for the next 4 years. I personally think Halak will be above average and earn his contract, but to suggest it will happen for sure is just untrue.

The ironic thing is that both Halak and Price are somewhat unproven, they have played similar #s of games with similar career stats and have both had some hot streaks, yet people are arguing that one is proven and one isn't? Either they both are or they both aren't...
First off, Halak has NEVER had a losing season in North America dating all the way back to juniors. Never.

Secondly, their stats aren't all that similar - especially with Halak improving each year.

Regular Season
Halak - 97 decisions, .919 SV%, 2.62 GAA, 9 shutouts, .577 WIN%, .613 PTS%
Price - 126 decisions, .912 SV%, 2.73 GAA, 4 shuouts, .476 WIN%, .548 PTS%

Playoffs
Halak - 19 decisions, .923 SV%, 2.48 GAA, 0 shutouts, .474 WIN%
Price - 16 decisions, .894 SV%, 3.17 GAA, 2 shutouts, .313 WIN%

If those are that similar, I apologize. I didn't know Scott Gomez had similar stats to Ryan Kesler. But if that's how we judge, I now understand.

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07-06-2010, 10:22 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Halak is a very good goaltender that's for sure. He hasn't had the work load at the nhl to show true consistency, by that I mean that he hasn't shown much, but there;s not doubt he will be really successful because he plays hard and is always focused.
And he doesn't sulk after a bad goal.

And he has exceptional puck tracking ability most games.

And he is a humble and lovable underdog that his team mates want to play hard for.

And he has a sold history of stealing games.

He's everything that Price isn't

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07-06-2010, 10:24 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
He was a spare part. They have so much depth in St. Louis, as far as young players and prospects go. They had a lot of other guys they could have moved instead, but they clearly felt Eller was the one to move.

If we had 4-5 8.0B forwards coming up (or already up) to go along with the rest of the team, but our goalie is a bottom of the pack starter - would you not trade one of them for an elite goalie? I would every time.

He was a spare part because they were dealing from a position of strength. A spare part doesn't mean a bad part - it means a part that's not needed for your piece of equipment (in this case, team).


First off, Halak has NEVER had a losing season in North America dating all the way back to juniors. Never.

Secondly, their stats aren't all that similar - especially with Halak improving each year.

Regular Season
Halak - 97 decisions, .919 SV%, 2.62 GAA, 9 shutouts, .577 WIN%
Price - 126 decisions, .912 SV%, 2.73 GAA, 4 shuouts, .476 WIN%

Playoffs
Halak - 19 decisions, .923 SV%, 2.48 GAA, 0 shutouts, .474 WIN%
Price - 16 decisions, .894 SV%, 3.17 GAA, 2 shutouts, .313 WIN%

If those are that similar, I apologize. I didn't know Scott Gomez had similar stats to Ryan Kesler. But if that's how we judge, I now understand.
If a spare part isn't necessarily a bad part then why all the bickering. Gauthier clearly identified the piece he wanted. He engaged in negotiation saw what was out there and picked Eller. We all agree on Eller's potential, then what's the problem? There was hardly any cap space, keeping Halak meant that someone somewhere in the lineup had to be sacrificed which would create a hole some where else which means we would continue having to depend on our goalie to win us games. Instead we traded a goalie to create more depth at a position we are really thin at.

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07-06-2010, 10:25 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
He was a spare part. They have so much depth in St. Louis, as far as young players and prospects go. They had a lot of other guys they could have moved instead, but they clearly felt Eller was the one to move.

If we had 4-5 8.0B forwards coming up (or already up) to go along with the rest of the team, but our goalie is a bottom of the pack starter - would you not trade one of them for an elite goalie? I would every time.

He was a spare part because they were dealing from a position of strength. A spare part doesn't mean a bad part - it means a part that's not needed for your piece of equipment (in this case, team).
Or maybe they (St Louis) offered a roster player, but Gauthier specifically decided to go for Lars Eller as centerpiece to the transaction?

Looking at your meaning of spare part, would you say that Jaroslav was a spare part? As we were dealing from a position of strength (goaltending) and as Halak was deemed as unnecessary to the equipment (or team).

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07-06-2010, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Yes, Harding. Knew it started with a "h" didn't have the article in front of me.
Harding's career stats are inbetween that of Halak and Price, but he's coming off a rough season. (.905 SV%, 3.05 GAA).

Also, that article gives very little info. Maybe St. Louis balked because they were already in serious talks with Montreal. If they fell through, who knows, maybe they would have went back to Minnesota and asked for Harding.

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Originally Posted by LOL View Post
Or maybe they (St Louis) offered a roster player, but Gauthier specifically decided to go for Lars Eller as centerpiece to the transaction?

Looking at your meaning of spare part, would you say that Jaroslav was a spare part? As we were dealing from a position of strength (goaltending) and as Halak was deemed as unnecessary to the equipment (or team).
That's quite possible. Like I said earlier, it doesn't mean Eller was the original spare part - but he was simply a part they could spare moving forward. Like I said earlier, they had plenty of players and it was easy for them to move one because of their depth of young roster players and prospects. Eller was that guy and therefore, he's the spare part.

I wouldn't really call our goaltending a position of strength. We have no prospects who are really becoming anything. The best (and only) option we really have is Desjardins and while he's looking solid, he's nowhere close, IMO.

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07-06-2010, 10:27 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by LOL View Post
Or maybe they (St Louis) offered a roster player, but Gauthier specifically decided to go for Lars Eller as centerpiece to the transaction?

Looking at your meaning of spare part, would you say that Jaroslav was a spare part? As we were dealing from a position of strength (goaltending) and as Halak was deemed as unnecessary to the equipment (or team).
But he'll say that Price has the worst win-loss ratio of starting goalies. The problem is that everyone on this board is always ready to talk about potential, favorably of course. They're always ready to give young players the benefit of the doubt expect when it comes down to Price and Eller. Now all of a sudden potential doesn't mean as much as it once did. It gets downplayed why? Well coincidently they are the two players that are directly in relation to Halak, so of course their potential will be downplayed.

Halak once had potential as well.

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07-06-2010, 10:30 PM
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How exactly is Eller a spare part?

MOD EDIT: Your post was deleted for good reason. It had nothing to do with the topic at hand.


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07-06-2010, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
But why did he remain patient. Why did he refuse to trade Eller then, but not now? There has to be something in Eller that he saw valuable to begin with in order for him to consider trading for more. If thought Eller could bring in more, then there was a reason. So Eller really isn't a spare part after all is he?

Now couple this with the goalie market around the league isn't that great. Montreal needed to make a choice because of cap space. They either made a hole at their center depth by losing Plekanec or they traded one goalie and improve because the other one in the system isn't as bad as he is being made out to be.
Umm... because he got Jaroslav Halak in return? At the end of the day, you can't expect to get much better than that for a guy with 7 NHL games under his belt. Hopefully, with time Eller will prove to be worth much more than that, but right now he isn't. ESPECIALLY to St. Louis given their depth in quality youngsters.

And they didn't necessarily have to loose Plekanec if they signed Halak, so don't be foolish. Halak had a salary last year, and the Habs would only have to find between 1 and 2 million (at most) to cover his raise. Keeping Max Pac in the AHL all next year saves you $900K right off the bat, for example. If Markov misses any time to start the season (as is expected), there are some savings there, too. Trade A.Kost (JUST an example) for a winger that costs $2M or less is something else that can be explored. Or just trade one of Hamrlik or Spacek if you have to. Lots of possible avenues.

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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Ohashi, you write well, but we all know what you mean when you do. There is a clear hidding Halak bias in your writings. You act all high and mighty and "objective" but your personal taste for players plays into your judgement and analysis just as much as anyone else on this forum. Your always quick to comment favorably on the potential and talent of any player of any team expect when comes down to two players: Eller and Price because both have to deal with Halak. You always seem to be skeptic, your "excited, but cautiously optimistic" in the case of the latter to, but postive in the case of others. Of course now you're going to write me another post with empty words to beat around the push and talk about how you do no such and that Halak has proven, Price hasn't and that potential really means nothing, but not actually nothing blah blah.
The names mean nothing to me. I've been following this organization too long to get invested in names on the backs of jerseys. Trading Chelios (one of my favourite Habs at the time) for the fancy Denis Savard was one of my first lessons in this regard, and losing Roy "sealed the deal". You can replace Halak with Smith, and Price with Jones. I don't know either of them personally, I only know what they've done on the ice. Many people (including myself from time to time) would be well served to spend less time worrying about WHY posters choose to reply to what they do and simply concentrate more on the actual reply.

End of the day, St. Louis probably would have loved to see Eller blossom into a great player with them in the future, but it's hard to miss and lament "what ifs" when you have what they do in the stable.


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07-06-2010, 10:32 PM
  #121
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The debate between Price and Halak shall never end.

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07-06-2010, 10:35 PM
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Umm... because he got Jaroslav Halak in return? At the end of the day, you can't expect to get much better than that for a guy with 7 NHL games under his belt. Hopefully, with time Eller will prove to be worth much more than that, but right now he isn't. ESPECIALLY to St. Louis given their depth in quality youngsters.

And they didn't necessarily have to loose Plekanec if they signed Halak, so don't be foolish. Halak had a salary last year, and the Habs would only have to find between 1 and 2 million (at most) to cover his raise. Keeping Max Pac in the AHL all next year saves you $900K right off the bat, for example. If Markov misses any time to start the season (as is expected), there are some savings there, too. Trade A.Kost (JUST an example) for a winger that costs $2M or less is something else that can be explored. Or just trade one of Hamrlik or Spacek if you have to. Lots of possible avenues.
Yes. Lets gut our offense so we can fit 2 goalies on our team.
I mean while 1 plays the other will be filling up water bottles so he isn't completly useless

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07-06-2010, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Umm... because he got Jaroslav Halak in return? At the end of the day, you can't expect to get much better than that for a guy with 7 NHL games under his belt. Hopefully, with time Eller will prove to be worth much more than that, but right now he isn't. ESPECIALLY to St. Louis given their depth in quality youngsters.

And they didn't necessarily have to loose Plekanec if they signed Halak, so don't be foolish. Halak had a salary last year, and the Habs would only have to find between 1 and 2 million (at most) to cover his raise. Keeping Max Pac in the AHL all next year saves you $900K right off the bat, for example. If Markov misses any time to start the season (as is expected), there are some savings there, too. Trade A.Kost (JUST an example) for a winger that costs $2M or less is something else that can be explored. Or just trade one of Hamrlik or Spacek if you have to. Lots of possible avenues.
All this is pure speculation and I'm sure it was implored by the staff. After all winning is their priority. They are in the best position to see what is the return rate of these players and often times when you do rid these players, you get either less in return or the same salary back. In the case of Andrei, he still had to be replaced by a top 6 forward which costs money, how do you suggest we do so? Because we are trading for salary purposes the return rate won't be much. In the case of Hamrlik and Spacek, trading them creates a huge hole in your D.

So basically you are prepared to make a hole at every position...in our top 6, our top 4 D for the sake of Halak, but are not prepared to trade one of our two good young goalies to create depth at our center position which is really thin.

Good now that I understand you, I now truly know the motivations of your posts and your position. Clearly there is no point in arguing with posters with biases to individual players. They'd rather see individual players succeed at the expense of others like Mr. Earl who hopes Carey Price fails and I love you give such a poster the benfit of the doubt.

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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
Yes. Lets gut our offense so we can fit 2 goalies on our team.
I mean while 1 plays the other will be filling up water bottles so he isn't completly useless
Yah he's willing to sacrifice every part of the team for 1 player, but is appearntly not favoring anyone.

So he's willing to sacrifice team depth for the purposes of one player.

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07-06-2010, 10:41 PM
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Yes. Lets gut our offense so we can fit 2 goalies on our team.
I mean while 1 plays the other will be filling up water bottles so he isn't completly useless
Or he just would have rather kept Halak over Price? In which point, we wouldn't have gutted our offense, we'd have the better goalie (in his opinion and many others), and we'd have gotten back a similar return.

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07-06-2010, 10:42 PM
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Or he just would have rather kept Halak over Price? In which point, we wouldn't have gutted our offense, we'd have the better goalie (in his opinion and many others), and we'd have gotten back a similar return.
Or maybe the return rate on Price wasn't as good as a Halak. Again your justification is based purely on speculation rather than fact.

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