HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Penguins still lacking

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-08-2010, 12:34 PM
  #101
ScOrpik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 245
vCash: 500
Honestly, the only worth Caputi would've brought to the pens was trade-material. The guy has work ethic and anger issues, is a punk, doesn't fit into our blue collar balls to the walls grinding system. Heck, even Toronto fans aren't slightly sold on him yet.

ScOrpik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 12:49 PM
  #102
Hugh Madbrough
Registered User
 
Hugh Madbrough's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NoVA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,009
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOrpik View Post
Honestly, the only worth Caputi would've brought to the pens was trade-material. The guy has work ethic and anger issues, is a punk, doesn't fit into our blue collar balls to the walls grinding system. Heck, even Toronto fans aren't slightly sold on him yet.
dang man did he steal your girlfriend?

Hugh Madbrough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 01:01 PM
  #103
ScOrpik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 245
vCash: 500
I'd rather our team be stocked with players that will give 100% and will hit and forecheck hard (a.k.a. why we won in 09 against a more talented Detroit team) than someone thats gonna be out there to pad his stats for a good payday and coast along when the puck isn't near him.

This is hockey, not pansy baseball.


Last edited by ScOrpik: 07-08-2010 at 01:15 PM.
ScOrpik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 01:28 PM
  #104
Der Schweinehund
Registered User
 
Der Schweinehund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kitchener, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,731
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
The winger situation hasn't changed since he traded for Hossa in '08. He's not learning from this mistake, though.

Ok...I am clearly missing something. They won the Cup AFTER Hossa was gone. (So when Shero started making "this" mistake.)

Help me out here...

Der Schweinehund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 02:30 PM
  #105
CorpseLW
Registered User
 
CorpseLW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Western PA
Country: United States
Posts: 868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandshakeLine View Post
But Gonchar didn't sign for Martin's value. Gonchar signed for a stupid contract that is a bigger risk than Letang figuring out where the damn net is. The realities of the cap world being what they are, Gonchar's contract is a bad risk in the long term, regardless of how much you think he's worth it in the short term.And again, panicking over a roster that's not even remotely set is a waste of time.

No team is perfect, but only this board could find the downsides to signing two of the top 4 UFA defensemen long term for flat market value. Not to mention the fact that the situation that most here are bemoaning (us not signing the highest profile winger available) would have necessitated creating other holes that we'd have to turn around and fill. Forgive me for feeling a little irritated, but people can't expect Shero to sign every Jagr-wannabe, field a fantastic blueline, and maintain our three centers.

Something's gotta give, unless we all just like being permanently unhappy.

I'd just like to see a little more thought and a little less knee-jerk conservatism regarding our lineup for once. If the rest of the league can adapt, there's no reason why we can't, and frankly, I'd rather see Shero try to beat the curve than to chase after last year's team-building fad the way so many of you would like for him to do.

We're not going to sign Kovachoo. He's not a game breaker, but he will screw up somebody's cap. We're not the Capitals. We're not anybody but the Pens, so we have to use our own template to get back to the Cup.
I would be surprised to hear people criticizing the two big signings this month--anywhere. I am very happy with those signings regardless of the capspace--assuming Michalek lives up to expectations.

Most people will probably agree that the Penguins' biggest problem is having so much salary tied up in two players combined with (and this is the part that may get well-tested THIS season) a lack young, affordable players with enough talent to offset that concentration of salary.

There seem to be some ppl on this forum who want to take the view, "throw bodies on the ice with Crosby and Malkin, they should do well enough."

For me, it's not about how many goals the Penguins score. The difference is the feeling of confidence the team and fans have that there is inevitably a very good chance our team will find a way to score, to create good quality scoring chances from ANY spot on the ice, and from more than just a few players. Most of the time watching Pittsburgh, to me, during the past 3 years has been question of "can we find a way to win [by the skin of our teeth]?" Watching the Red Wings before last season, the usual question was: "who's going to score this f'ing goal?!... YEAAAAH!!!" that's the feeling of watching a great team--just like the '92 Penguins.

This season, I think we will be fortunate to see one or two of our young fowards become significant scoring threats that the opposition need to keep one eye on.


But let's put my above argument a different way:
The Blackhawks' passing, speed of play, and scoring ability from all angles and variety of players was from another planet IMO. If Pittsburgh had 1/2 of that ability from the non-Crosby, non-Gonchar, non-Malkin (thanks to Cooke, Staal, and Dupuis scoring, some people have the illusion that Pittsburgh has something comparable), we would have something to sing about.

other note: Taking away Pittsburgh 3rd line output this past season, I really wonder where the hell the Penguins would have ended up.


Last edited by CorpseLW: 07-08-2010 at 02:40 PM.
CorpseLW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 02:43 PM
  #106
BrOrpik 44
Registered User
 
BrOrpik 44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,066
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Schweinehund View Post
Ok...I am clearly missing something. They won the Cup AFTER Hossa was gone. (So when Shero started making "this" mistake.)

Help me out here...
You know how your mother said that you were a mistake, but a good one? Sort of like that.

BrOrpik 44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 03:39 PM
  #107
Freeptop
Registered User
 
Freeptop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
The winger situation hasn't changed since he traded for Hossa in '08. He's not learning from this mistake, though.
Are you honestly telling me that you'd rather this team move from 5th in goal scoring to 1st, but not get significantly better over the 20th overall ranking in goals against? If so, we're just going to have to agree to disagree, and then wait to see how the season turns out, because I happen to think improving the defense will win more games than improving the offense would have. Or do you not remember how often the Pens gave up the first goal last season? Or how they let several games get away from them after they had a lead?

Face it - under the cap, there is always going to be an area of weakness somewhere. I'd rather not have "defense" stay as the weakness for the Penguins, and from his moves this summer, it seems Shero feels the same way.

Freeptop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 03:44 PM
  #108
Der Schweinehund
Registered User
 
Der Schweinehund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kitchener, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,731
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VBDE View Post
You know how your mother said that you were a mistake, but a good one? Sort of like that.
Fantastic. I spent many thousands of dollars and hours with psychiatrists just to repress the memories of when my mother called me a mistake. And now you bring it back out. sigh.


Der Schweinehund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 04:15 PM
  #109
Ugene Malkin
Hello Mr. Andersen
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 24,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeptop View Post
Are you honestly telling me that you'd rather this team move from 5th in goal scoring to 1st, but not get significantly better over the 20th overall ranking in goals against? If so, we're just going to have to agree to disagree, and then wait to see how the season turns out, because I happen to think improving the defense will win more games than improving the offense would have. Or do you not remember how often the Pens gave up the first goal last season? Or how they let several games get away from them after they had a lead?

Face it - under the cap, there is always going to be an area of weakness somewhere. I'd rather not have "defense" stay as the weakness for the Penguins, and from his moves this summer, it seems Shero feels the same way.
I think what he is saying is, he would rather not rely on lesser wingers overachieving every year.

Ugene Malkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 04:45 PM
  #110
Jedi Pengu*
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 620
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
I think what he is saying is, he would rather not rely on lesser wingers overachieving every year.
Remember last year against the Capitols, when they were tearing up teams and approaching our Wins-in-a-row record. We played them and they had to go through us to get that record. It was a hyped game and a good playoff measuring stick. We had that game in the damn bag. Scoring is NOT our problem. Defense is (NOT scoring defense like Gonchar either), we need defensemen that actually excel at playing defense. Now thank Lord Shero, we have what we wished for. If our stars are just themselves this year, and our defense improves we'll be hard to stop. Sid, Geno, and Staal will all be better, and the wing position won't be the question. I believe the eyes of the fans/media pressure will be on Fleury this year. Now with a solid defense, he has no more excuses. Halak signed for 3.75 i think, Fleury makes 5 already.... Doesn't seem right to me?? If the flower doesn't perform to standards that 5 million is going to burn into Shero's retina. Can't wait for the season. Go Pens!!

Jedi Pengu* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 05:04 PM
  #111
Ugene Malkin
Hello Mr. Andersen
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 24,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi Pengu View Post
Remember last year against the Capitols, when they were tearing up teams and approaching our Wins-in-a-row record. We played them and they had to go through us to get that record. It was a hyped game and a good playoff measuring stick. We had that game in the damn bag. Scoring is NOT our problem. Defense is (NOT scoring defense like Gonchar either), we need defensemen that actually excel at playing defense. Now thank Lord Shero, we have what we wished for. If our stars are just themselves this year, and our defense improves we'll be hard to stop. Sid, Geno, and Staal will all be better, and the wing position won't be the question. I believe the eyes of the fans/media pressure will be on Fleury this year. Now with a solid defense, he has no more excuses. Halak signed for 3.75 i think, Fleury makes 5 already.... Doesn't seem right to me?? If the flower doesn't perform to standards that 5 million is going to burn into Shero's retina. Can't wait for the season. Go Pens!!
So far, this D-corps has no track record that it is going to fix said woe's.

You are relying on blind faith that they will even get near their total of goals from last season.

This year, more so than others, is a complete watch to see what they really have going forward beyond said Stars. There is just too many changes, and a lot could go wrong.

If there ever was a transition year, I believe this is theirs.

Ugene Malkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 07:25 PM
  #112
Freeptop
Registered User
 
Freeptop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
I think what he is saying is, he would rather not rely on lesser wingers overachieving every year.
Yeah, so would we all, including Shero, I'll bet. Now, how is that supposed to happen under the Salary Cap?

The Pens could have better wings, but it would mean sacrificing elsewhere. The bottom six are overall fairly cheap (aside from Staal, who is a special case), so you can't get anymore savings from there, really. Fleury's on a long-term deal, and Johnson is pretty cheap as well, so you're not getting any savings in net. So your options are to either sacrifice quality top six wings, or sacrifice on defense. The Capitals provide a great example of what happens when you choose to sacrifice defense in favor of more offense. I'm quite happy Shero isn't following that example.

Freeptop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 07:46 PM
  #113
Jag68Sid87
Nothing Else Maattas
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 30,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeptop View Post
Yeah, so would we all, including Shero, I'll bet. Now, how is that supposed to happen under the Salary Cap?

The Pens could have better wings, but it would mean sacrificing elsewhere. The bottom six are overall fairly cheap (aside from Staal, who is a special case), so you can't get anymore savings from there, really. Fleury's on a long-term deal, and Johnson is pretty cheap as well, so you're not getting any savings in net. So your options are to either sacrifice quality top six wings, or sacrifice on defense. The Capitals provide a great example of what happens when you choose to sacrifice defense in favor of more offense. I'm quite happy Shero isn't following that example.
Our defense and goaltending aren't going to lead us to another championship. Our centers are. The more help you give them, the greater you are placing the odds in their favor.

By neglecting the winger situation, you're leaving it ALL on the shoulders of the centers. Last year, teams proved you can shut them down if they don't have outlets for support. History could repeat itself, mainly because of management.

Had we only signed Paul Martin, we would have at least been able to sign Whitney. Or maybe go even bigger. But even Whitney would have been better than two defensemen and no wingers.

Martin + Whitney > Michalek + Whitney.

NOTE: I like Michalek a lot. I like Martin, too. I hate this current situation with Team Helicopter, though.

Jag68Sid87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 08:12 PM
  #114
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
 
UnderratedBrooks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Miranda's house
Posts: 13,538
vCash: 500
I want to make something clear, because it's critical to this whole winger debate:

If you go ahead and take a look at UFA wingers for next summer, there is just about ZERO that would be attainable at the deadline. They're all either on playoff teams or they just plain aren't capable (bottom sixers, etc.). The only ones I saw that could even be considered a possibility are Cory Stillman (blah) and David Backes who will undoubtedly be signed unless he really plays hardball.

Considering this, the whole "let's wait until the deadline" thing is not an option. There really isn't anyone to get, period.

Either a trade is going to be made or we're going to tough it out this year and hope we have some guys develop to their fullest for '11-'12. That's all there is to it for me.

UnderratedBrooks44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 08:21 PM
  #115
Jag68Sid87
Nothing Else Maattas
 
Jag68Sid87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 30,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I want to make something clear, because it's critical to this whole winger debate:

If you go ahead and take a look at UFA wingers for next summer, there is just about ZERO that would be attainable at the deadline. They're all either on playoff teams or they just plain aren't capable (bottom sixers, etc.). The only ones I saw that could even be considered a possibility are Cory Stillman (blah) and David Backes who will undoubtedly be signed unless he really plays hardball.

Considering this, the whole "let's wait until the deadline" thing is not an option. There really isn't anyone to get, period.

Either a trade is going to be made or we're going to tough it out this year and hope we have some guys develop to their fullest for '11-'12. That's all there is to it for me.
Pretty much, UB. I think we're screwed until Tangradi, Hanowski, Bennett, Kuehnhackl et al develop.

Jag68Sid87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 08:30 PM
  #116
#66
Registered User
 
#66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 10,670
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
So far, this D-corps has no track record that it is going to fix said woe's.

You are relying on blind faith that they will even get near their total of goals from last season.

This year, more so than others, is a complete watch to see what they really have going forward beyond said Stars. There is just too many changes, and a lot could go wrong.

If there ever was a transition year, I believe this is theirs.
I actually thought the Pens have been in transition years the past few years. It crazy to think that the Pens have been great and won a cup when IMO they weren't even ready yet.

In terms of the defensive moves, I think what really hurt the Pens last year was that they were an MT team playing in a fully blown out DB system. They didn't really work the end boards and grind in the corners as much as they did in 09. We saw a lot of skating and neutral zone play but didn't have the wingers to play that game. When the Pens didn't play in the offensive zone as much it really put a lot of pressure on the D and it showed. Now with a stronger team in the defensive zone. the Pens can play a more creative style and hopefully not be as "soff" in their own end.

IMO the Pens still lack the skill and speed on wing to play Disco's system correctly but we'll see.

#66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 08:36 PM
  #117
CorpseLW
Registered User
 
CorpseLW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Western PA
Country: United States
Posts: 868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by #66 View Post

IMO the Pens still lack the skill and speed on wing to play Disco's system correctly but we'll see.
agreed.

CorpseLW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 08:58 PM
  #118
redsono93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 810
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Pretty much, UB. I think we're screwed until Tangradi, Hanowski, Bennett, Kuehnhackl et al develop.
Which is why I wish we traded players like Dupis, Jeffery, Talbot for more picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of this years draft. I just hope passing high skilled guys like Kabanov, Galiev, Pukkinen, Mcfarland doesn't come back to haunt us. Trying to sign big name UFA's not gonna happen. We have to lean on our prospects. Is there a list of undrafted players out there? If so any guys you think deserve a look at training camp? Maybe we can find the next St Louis who was undrafted.

redsono93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2010, 09:15 PM
  #119
Ugene Malkin
Hello Mr. Andersen
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 24,305
vCash: 500
What I hate about the zone system is the fact that they stand around way more, which makes it look like the other team is on a PP in our own end. It was disgusting to watch that last year. Guys were in a lot of 1 on two's, or even at times1 on 3 battles in the corners. No support whats so ever a lot of the time.

Dan(m)'s system sucks.....

Ugene Malkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2010, 03:10 PM
  #120
Freeptop
Registered User
 
Freeptop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Our defense and goaltending aren't going to lead us to another championship. Our centers are. The more help you give them, the greater you are placing the odds in their favor.

By neglecting the winger situation, you're leaving it ALL on the shoulders of the centers. Last year, teams proved you can shut them down if they don't have outlets for support. History could repeat itself, mainly because of management.

Had we only signed Paul Martin, we would have at least been able to sign Whitney. Or maybe go even bigger. But even Whitney would have been better than two defensemen and no wingers.

Martin + Whitney > Michalek + Whitney.

NOTE: I like Michalek a lot. I like Martin, too. I hate this current situation with Team Helicopter, though.
Here's the thing, though. I think Shero's looking more long-term than just next season. The current core, including the new defensemen, are locked up for the next three years. By locking up as much of the defense as Shero has done, he's got a lot more cost certainty on the backend than he did before this offseason when it comes time to re-sign Malkin and Staal after those three years are up.

Signing Whitney and some other, cheaper defenseman, would be taking a greater risk, and only have a short-term benefit.

You're also making a pretty big assumption that Whitney would have signed with Pittsburgh. There were rumors that Shero did try to get Whitney in addition to Martin and Michalek (it probably would have required moving someone from the roster to make cap space, but it would have been possible). I guess Whitney wasn't quite as interested in playing for Pittsburgh as everyone is assuming.

Finally, the idea that Montreal completely shutdown Pittsburgh because they didn't have good enough wings is one I don't agree with. The Pens lost that series for two reasons:
1) They allowed the Canadiens to have free reign in the defensive zone. Not a good recipe for success.

2) They stopped playing the way they did in game 1 of the series - which, if you might recall, they utterly dominated. They reverted to bad passes, and taking perimeter shots, even when they had the opportunity to move into the slot! Of course Halak looked good after game 1 - they made it easier on him, the same way the Caps did. How many times did we see players forego the open skater to try to force a pass through two or three (or more) Canadiens? There were plenty of times when there was a better option, but they just made the wrong decisions. Sure, the Canadiens forced some of those decisions, but not all of them. There were plenty of times the Pens had time and space, and reacted like they had neither.

The second point would bother me the most, actually, but I'm going to wait and see if it was the result of mental fatigue, or other factors, first. Considering the Red Wings went down in a similar fashion in the same round, after playing a similar amount of hockey over the past three seasons, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume mental fatigue for now.

Freeptop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2010, 03:15 PM
  #121
River Man
Registered User
 
River Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 2,170
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOrpik View Post
I'd rather our team be stocked with players that will give 100% and will hit and forecheck hard (a.k.a. why we won in 09 against a more talented Detroit team) than someone thats gonna be out there to pad his stats for a good payday and coast along when the puck isn't near him.

This is hockey, not pansy baseball.
Really? I could've swore...

River Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2010, 03:16 PM
  #122
Freeptop
Registered User
 
Freeptop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I want to make something clear, because it's critical to this whole winger debate:

If you go ahead and take a look at UFA wingers for next summer, there is just about ZERO that would be attainable at the deadline. They're all either on playoff teams or they just plain aren't capable (bottom sixers, etc.). The only ones I saw that could even be considered a possibility are Cory Stillman (blah) and David Backes who will undoubtedly be signed unless he really plays hardball.

Considering this, the whole "let's wait until the deadline" thing is not an option. There really isn't anyone to get, period.

Either a trade is going to be made or we're going to tough it out this year and hope we have some guys develop to their fullest for '11-'12. That's all there is to it for me.
There are generally teams that everyone assumes will be in the playoffs that end up collapsing, for one reason or another. It happens every year. You can't say for certain that there will be zero wingers that are attainable at the deadline.

It's also possible to acquire players that aren't pending UFAs through trade, though I did specifically say rentals in my previous post.

There are always players available at the deadline. Teams that are on the bottom look to unload veterans for draft picks, and sometimes, there are teams that are playoff bound that aren't performing as well as they expected, so they make a trade to shake things up. I would think that last possibility should sound familiar, considering one of Shero's big trades from the 08/09 season...

Freeptop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2010, 03:23 PM
  #123
Ugene Malkin
Hello Mr. Andersen
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 24,305
vCash: 500
The two biggest reasons why Montreal was effective is they waited for their chances, and had 5 guy's collapse in front of Halak. The goals that did get through had seeing eyes through all the bodies. Every time they did have chances in open ice on Halak, it still favored Halak against the wingers after the centers were smothered.

Ugene Malkin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2010, 04:12 PM
  #124
UnderratedBrooks44
Registered User
 
UnderratedBrooks44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Miranda's house
Posts: 13,538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeptop View Post
There are generally teams that everyone assumes will be in the playoffs that end up collapsing, for one reason or another. It happens every year. You can't say for certain that there will be zero wingers that are attainable at the deadline.

It's also possible to acquire players that aren't pending UFAs through trade, though I did specifically say rentals in my previous post.

There are always players available at the deadline. Teams that are on the bottom look to unload veterans for draft picks, and sometimes, there are teams that are playoff bound that aren't performing as well as they expected, so they make a trade to shake things up. I would think that last possibility should sound familiar, considering one of Shero's big trades from the 08/09 season...
We shall see. I tried to account for teams dropping in and out of the playoffs as best I could and still didn't see anything of real value. Like you said there's always someone available, I'm just not sure it's anyone even worth putting a bid in for.

UnderratedBrooks44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:46 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.