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Jeff Schultz re-signs, four years @ $2.75M per

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Old
07-07-2010, 05:43 PM
  #76
hunters_my_hero
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I would have rather had Corvo for 2yrs @ 2.5million.

I don't see Schultz improving much, he is and probably always will be in slow motion.

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07-07-2010, 05:51 PM
  #77
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I tend to think those "hard arounds" up the boards is more of a team thing than sarge. Less skilled and slower players like sarge and erskine are going to do that more often than others.
But I put a lot of the blame on the wingers not getting to their boards on time and consistent enough to protect or deflect the puck as the d wing it around the boards.

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07-07-2010, 05:52 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
even though you didnt direct this at me I have to ask......

what makes him "much more than a third pairing blueliner"?
- he is a fair , at best, skater
- not phyical at all, regardless of size.
- no offense
- a regular PKer on one of the worst PKs in the NHL over that last few seasons

so again, what makes him "much more" than a 3rd pairing guy

what sort of things will we see him get better at? He isnt all of a sudden going to be a good skater, play with an edge, or gain offensive instincts....at least I cant see it.

If he were on any other team would people here be saying "we gotta have that Schultz guy"
Based on most statistical measures, Schultz is one of the better shutdown guys in the league. He led all NHL defenseman in Plus-Minus, On Ice, per 60 minutes, and his goals allowed per 60 minutes was fourth best, despite being on the ice against other team's best lines (he was second of the team's regular blueliners in quality of competition).

The defenseman's job is to keep the puck out of the net. I don't care how he does it, or how awkward he looks or whether he knocks people through the glass....Schultz' job is to prevent the other team from scoring, while babysitting Green's forays. While only 24 years old, he's done a pretty good damn job of it, while slowly adding a more physical element to his game (which accounted for his struggles the season before).

No, he's not a top pairing elite player, but he's definitely not a 3rd pairing guy who should only see about 15 minutes of icetime per game. He's already surpassed that.

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07-07-2010, 05:53 PM
  #79
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Why can't Jeff be as physical as his bro Ian?

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07-07-2010, 06:28 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
This is pretty much spot on.....

just because he makes a couple nice long passes here and there I dont get how someone can call him a good passer. More times than not he rushes passes up the boards, to no one in particular.....or he hits a guy right in his skates, preventing any real flow on the rush.

Drake:

I think most of the people who are not fans of 55 arent expecting him to be a player he isnt. We get it....he wont be a hitter, or a skater, or an offensive minded player. Thats kind of it....he wont be any of those things that normally seperate you from the ho-hum players in the NHL......Mr. Vanilla he is
What you say is true for most at HF, yes, but outside there are plenty of people who won't excuse a big defenseman who won't hit, and that is the end of it. For them, a 6' 6" defenseman who isn't mean and who won't hit is a waste, period. For a smattering of fans who post here regularly, I think this is also true. It's more common outside HF, though.

I think he has his foibles, but saw him improve across the board last season, from October through May. Over four years, I am sanguine about his chances of rounding into one heck of a solid player.

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07-07-2010, 06:44 PM
  #81
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The idea that when Schultz looks up, doesn't have a clear pass, is getting pressure, and then just sends it up the boards and out and that is a bad thing I don't quite understand. That is the normal out play in the league for guys who don't have the ability to hold the puck, wheel back, and wait for something to open up when a guy is in their face. Are you under some impression that Schultz should be trying to do that or something?

This deal is fine, not great but fine and over the life of the deal is likely to look better and better. Schultz made huge strides last year in his strength, both upper and lower body, and I think it really showed in his overall game. You have to think that is going to continue and I think that is going to improve his skating also as it already has made him much stronger on his skates.


Last edited by Millhaus: 07-07-2010 at 07:43 PM. Reason: stupidity on my part...
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07-07-2010, 06:51 PM
  #82
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If Schultz progresses half as well as he has each of the last two years, this will be a monster deal by the time year four rolls around. I'm not in love with the contract, but it's perfectly acceptable.

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07-07-2010, 06:56 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
What you say is true for most at HF, yes, but outside there are plenty of people who won't excuse a big defenseman who won't hit, and that is the end of it. For them, a 6' 6" defenseman who isn't mean and who won't hit is a waste, period. For a smattering of fans who post here regularly, I think this is also true. It's more common outside HF, though.

I think he has his foibles, but saw him improve across the board last season, from October through May. Over four years, I am sanguine about his chances of rounding into one heck of a solid player.
As much as I don't expect him to change his game nor am I unsatisfied with him in general (I'm fine with the way he is now) - it doesn't change the fact that if he wants to become better and climb that tier-ladder then he needs to get more physical. The "it's ok" mentality is never ok in competitive anything. Always strive to be better. Like Crosby, he works on his weaknesses every off-season and he's arguably the best player in the NHL right now (no not because of the Cups/Medals he has, he's just awesome individually).

If you have the option to become better (more physical in Jeff's case) then take advantage of that opportunity. No one's expecting him to be like Chara or anything but having good a pokecheck & good positioning is too easy for the top-liners to get around. If this is all he can be then... oh well, waste of assets (not utilizing his size). For 2.75 that's not too bad for a 4-5-6 d-man. Like the Toronto Raptor's Andrea Bargnani - he simply refuses to use size and get in the paint. He'll never reach his full (or even just most) potential if he maintains this.... gentle giant play. Don't get me wrong, I prefer finesse play but the guy's not even agile.

Enough with this laxed attitude towards him and this club. I know every player is unique and excel in certain aspects of play and others not but fact remains that in order to become better one needs to do X.


Last edited by i2edAlien: 07-07-2010 at 07:12 PM.
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Old
07-07-2010, 06:59 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Foy View Post
If Schultz progresses half as well as he has each of the last two years, this will be a monster deal by the time year four rolls around. I'm not in love with the contract, but it's perfectly acceptable.
Yeah I don't get the 'what he is now is all he will ever be' crowd around here. Based on how he has progressed I don't see how that makes any sense. Why would his improvement stop now?

And honestly with that bean pole frame he started with I don't think he is going to be finished filling out until he is in his early 30's. If nothing else in his game improves at all that continued adding of size and strength is going to make him a better player all by itself.

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07-07-2010, 07:06 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
What you say is true for most at HF, yes, but outside there are plenty of people who won't excuse a big defenseman who won't hit, and that is the end of it. For them, a 6' 6" defenseman who isn't mean and who won't hit is a waste, period. For a smattering of fans who post here regularly, I think this is also true. It's more common outside HF, though.

I think he has his foibles, but saw him improve across the board last season, from October through May. Over four years, I am sanguine about his chances of rounding into one heck of a solid player.
Its funny because outside of here these days, I dont know what the general Caps vibe is. That doesnt surprise me....this town loves its big D that hit. Its why hatcher was never totally warmed up to IMO....while he did play physical a times he wasnt #3 and people never accepted that. Murphy too.....although more because he didnt play the body at all.....and a couple flubs, but anyway.....

as for 55....he never stands up guys, rarely rubs them out....and I dont see that changing. I would be happy if he was a little more assertive on the boards and used his body position better, and to his favor......if he could improve there I think thats about as much as can be expected in that side of his game.

He could be Hal Gil....if Hal Gil were a florist or something...a nice guy version of Gil....

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07-07-2010, 07:17 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
The idea that when Schultz looks up, doesn't have a clear pass, is gets pressure, and then just sends it up the boards and out and that is a bad thing I don't quite understand. That is the normal out play in the league for guys who don't have the ability to hold the puck, wheel back, and wait for something to open up when a guy is in their face. Are you under some impression that Schultz should be trying to do that or something?
Thats kind of a trick question......

no, im not expecting Schultz to do that

yes, I expect a guy who is playing top 4 mins on the blueline of a team with Stanley Cup on their minds to have a little skill with the puck.....or possibly be a physical player....or maybe a Vet with some playoff chops....or some intangible in his game.

Its not that I dont like 55 or think he is terrible....hes an ok player. IMO for him to take that next step he has to develop some aspect in his game that we havent seen from him yet....

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07-07-2010, 07:19 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
Ias for 55....he never stands up guys, rarely rubs them out....and I dont see that changing. I would be happy if he was a little more assertive on the boards and used his body position better, and to his favor......if he could improve there I think thats about as much as can be expected in that side of his game.
I think he did a much better job of using his body and was more assertive using it last year than he was the year before and that year he was better than the previous year. I put that down mostly to him simply gaining strength but some down to him gaining confidence in his ability to play that way. That improvement in size and strength and thus the ability to more effectively play that way is likely going to continue for some time.

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07-07-2010, 07:22 PM
  #88
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I think people tend to forget how old Schultz is based on how long he's been with us. He's been growing every year, and his physicality this year was unprecedented from him. I see that improving as well. Halfway through this contract, I thoroughly expect him to be a decent physical player.

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07-07-2010, 07:25 PM
  #89
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He could be Hal Gil....if Hal Gil were a florist or something...a nice guy version of Gil....
Heh. I just had a vision of Bubba Smith in Police Academy.

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07-07-2010, 07:39 PM
  #90
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According to my Caps mobile alert, Jeff Schultz lead the team in blocked shots last year.

That's depressing.
To be fair, he was like top 30 or 35 in blocked shots per game amongst defensemen. At least statistically, he's a very good shot blocker.

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07-07-2010, 07:52 PM
  #91
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Yeah I don't get the 'what he is now is all he will ever be' crowd around here. Based on how he has progressed I don't see how that makes any sense. Why would his improvement stop now?

And honestly with that bean pole frame he started with I don't think he is going to be finished filling out until he is in his early 30's. If nothing else in his game improves at all that continued adding of size and strength is going to make him a better player all by itself.
Well, the issue is his improvement in what. In many respects, he really is what he'll ever be. He's never going to wake up one morning and suddenly reveal a Hal Gill mean streak. It's just not going to happen. Unlike raw big men such as Chara back in the day, he has no physical game to speak of. He will never be a hitter. While he may get stronger, he will never be the kind of guy who is "difficult to play against".

He will also never be a dynamic offensive player. His passing may well improve, and he may get more confidence to take shots from the point, but he isn't a puck-rusher and he isn't a Chara-like bomber from the point. Never will be.

He also will never be an elite skater. He may improve, but it will be in moderate degrees at or around "average".

Those issues cannot be overlooked in the haste to say "he's young and improving". His style of play is very limited. Where he can improve considerably and in a way that results in him being well above-average is his positional awareness, his intuition and anticipation, and his first pass. All of those things can feature in the sort of game he brings. But you'll be hard pressed to name a player in the league who is considered top pairing material who doesn't possess elite skating, shooting, puck-rushing, or hitting. A player like Schultz should never be anything more than a #3/4, and he's already a #4 in most people's eyes. So, in some respects his ceiling is pretty low.

But, all that said, we're paying a #4D a fair rate for a #4D, so you can't be too bothered by the deal.

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07-07-2010, 08:14 PM
  #92
i2edAlien
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To be fair, he was like top 30 or 35 in blocked shots per game amongst defensemen. At least statistically, he's a very good shot blocker.
I actually appreciate his improvement in this category because it offsets the goals that go in because of his size screening the goalie.

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07-08-2010, 08:55 AM
  #93
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"The he's ok mentality"

1. Salary cap means you cant have an all star in every roster spot.
2. At 24 he was +50 while 20 minutes plus next to a gunslinger partner. Thats not just ok
3. He played 20 minutes plus on a team that coasted to the best record in the NHL.

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07-08-2010, 08:59 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
"The he's ok mentality"

1. Salary cap means you cant have an all star in every roster spot.
2. At 24 he was +50 while 20 minutes plus next to a gunslinger partner. Thats not just ok
3. He played 20 minutes plus on a team that coasted to the best record in the NHL.
...and failed in the playoffs.

I'm just saying.


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07-08-2010, 09:17 AM
  #95
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Well, the issue is his improvement in what. In many respects, he really is what he'll ever be...
I guess I think players can improve in different ways. It is not just about adding things you don't do now but also doing the things you do now better.

Schultz's skating will get better as he continues to add leg strength. He has already improved a decent amount in that area from the Bambi on ice he sometimes resembled when he first entered the league. But no he will never be an elite skater.

His increase in strength has also made a difference in his play along the boards and around the net and that is going to continue to improve over the next 6-8 years IMO. But no he is never going to be do a whole lot of hitting in those areas.

When you add improvements in those areas to the ones you mentioned concerning his defensive instincts, which I already think are fine, and his passing, and combine that with his size and reach advantage and I think you end up with a very good defensive blueliner someone along the lines of a Regehr, who I think we all believe is a darn fine player.

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07-08-2010, 09:19 AM
  #96
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...and failed in the playoffs.

I'm just saying.

True but for whatever reasons this was really his first playoff series so you would expect him to be behind the curve in that area.

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07-08-2010, 09:20 AM
  #97
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...and failed in the playoffs.

I'm just saying.

Good.

As if the Caps aren't coming off arguably the worst back-to-back choke jobs in team history with virtually the same roster.

Status quo still seems outrageously ****ing insane to me, but hey, let's "wait and see" another 10 months.

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07-08-2010, 09:21 AM
  #98
Liberati0n*
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
"The he's ok mentality"

1. Salary cap means you cant have an all star in every roster spot.
2. At 24 he was +50 while 20 minutes plus next to a gunslinger partner. Thats not just ok
3. He played 20 minutes plus on a team that coasted to the best record in the NHL.
The point is still valid, but he actually averaged under twenty minutes for the season.

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07-08-2010, 09:22 AM
  #99
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Good points CapsWolverinesUSA

Its kind of ironic to me. We know Sarge will never develop a mean streak. Probably will never hit. Won't learn a big slapper nor improve his skating. And on and on. Rarely steps up.

Yet we expect Alzner to change; largely abandon the solid positioning he learned, the core and foundation of his defensive specialist skills that enamored us to him in the first place. And expect him to change before he has even found his niche in the NHL. Become a risk taking step up Bruce kinda guy. On top of that, it seems all expect him to succeed in becoming a different player than he is.

Why him, but not Sarge? Sure we have higher expectations for Alzner I suppose, but I guess I cant figure out why few to no one expect Sarge to ever change... anything.

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07-08-2010, 09:27 AM
  #100
strungout
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True but for whatever reasons this was really his first playoff series so you would expect him to be behind the curve in that area.
Fair point.

I never really expected much from the guy...so I'm fine with giving it another 4 years at a reasonable rate. I still think Alzner is the guy to eventually pair with Green come playoff time...but this will give them time to work out that whole dynamic with 52/55/74/27.

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