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07-08-2010, 03:40 PM
  #1
King Panther
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Capology

Here is a question for you capologists out there. Ive been thinking about it because it seems like the biggest complaint you see from Panthers fans is overpaying for players. For example I see a lot of complaining about paying Reino 3mil a year when he is basically a 3rd line center. So the question is how much should an ideal team pay for each position. I know it is theoretical but ball park it for me please. It would be helpful if whoever answers this question could put it the way that we usually see people talk about how they see our lines. For example;

1st Line - LW - C -RW
2nd Line - LW - C - RW
3rd Line - LW - C - RW
4th Line - LW - C - RW

1st Pair LD - RD
2nd Pair LD - RD
3rd Pair LD - RD

Starting G
Backup G

If someone could just copy that and then add in the numbers that ideally represent the fair amount that a team should pay for that position using up the entire cap and being at least a playoff team if not a legit Cup contender, then I would appreciate it greatly as I cant always follow with these arguments about what is too much to pay for this, that, or whatever.

Many thanks in advance.

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07-08-2010, 05:34 PM
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King Panther
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I must say that 37 views and almost 2 hours later, I am a bit surprised that I haven't gotten a single reply.

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07-08-2010, 05:38 PM
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Rattrick
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Hi, my name is Georgia Panther.

Starting Goalie: 500K
Backup Goalie: 100K


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07-08-2010, 08:17 PM
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Montsy14
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For me, it would be something like this. It's pretty simplistic, but obviously I believe a team must be solid down the middle and have a strong top D pairing along with a Vokoun type goaltender.

5,000,000 - 7,000,000 - 4,000,000 - 16 mill
2,500,000 - 4,500,000 - 2,000,000 - 9 mill
1,500,000 - 2,000,000 - 850,000 - 4.35 mill
700,000 - 800,000 - 750,000 - 2.25 mill

7,000,000 - 5,000,000 - 12 mill
4,000,000 - 2,500,000 - 6.5 mill
1,000,000 - 1,000,000 - 2 mill

5,000,000
1,000,000

Total: 58.1 million

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Old
07-09-2010, 01:30 AM
  #5
Gudbranson44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Panther View Post
Here is a question for you capologists out there. Ive been thinking about it because it seems like the biggest complaint you see from Panthers fans is overpaying for players. For example I see a lot of complaining about paying Reino 3mil a year when he is basically a 3rd line center. So the question is how much should an ideal team pay for each position. I know it is theoretical but ball park it for me please. It would be helpful if whoever answers this question could put it the way that we usually see people talk about how they see our lines. For example;

1st Line - LW - C -RW
2nd Line - LW - C - RW
3rd Line - LW - C - RW
4th Line - LW - C - RW

1st Pair LD - RD
2nd Pair LD - RD
3rd Pair LD - RD

Starting G
Backup G

If someone could just copy that and then add in the numbers that ideally represent the fair amount that a team should pay for that position using up the entire cap and being at least a playoff team if not a legit Cup contender, then I would appreciate it greatly as I cant always follow with these arguments about what is too much to pay for this, that, or whatever.

Many thanks in advance.
Its almost impossible to put numbers like this on each position. Management doesnt strive for spending up to cap, the want to have a great team for as little money as possible. I guess the 1st line will obviously be the most expensive one, then the second might have 1 or two entry level contracts, 3rd line some cheaper defensive players, 4th line just whatever thats left on your roster with hopefully some defensive capabilities

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07-09-2010, 01:49 AM
  #6
Saevel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montsy14 View Post
For me, it would be something like this. It's pretty simplistic, but obviously I believe a team must be solid down the middle and have a strong top D pairing along with a Vokoun type goaltender.

5,000,000 - 7,000,000 - 4,000,000 - 16 mill
2,500,000 - 4,500,000 - 2,000,000 - 9 mill
1,500,000 - 2,000,000 - 850,000 - 4.35 mill
700,000 - 800,000 - 750,000 - 2.25 mill

7,000,000 - 5,000,000 - 12 mill
4,000,000 - 2,500,000 - 6.5 mill
1,000,000 - 1,000,000 - 2 mill

5,000,000
1,000,000

Total: 58.1 million
I think this is well done. Obviously, it's never going to look exactly like this,
you'll have some people earning too much, never living up to their expectations,
and you'll have others on entry level deals scoring lots of points.
All in all though, that's a pretty fair and balanced model

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07-09-2010, 07:54 AM
  #7
King Panther
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montsy14 View Post
For me, it would be something like this. It's pretty simplistic, but obviously I believe a team must be solid down the middle and have a strong top D pairing along with a Vokoun type goaltender.

5,000,000 - 7,000,000 - 4,000,000 - 16 mill
2,500,000 - 4,500,000 - 2,000,000 - 9 mill
1,500,000 - 2,000,000 - 850,000 - 4.35 mill
700,000 - 800,000 - 750,000 - 2.25 mill

7,000,000 - 5,000,000 - 12 mill
4,000,000 - 2,500,000 - 6.5 mill
1,000,000 - 1,000,000 - 2 mill

5,000,000
1,000,000

Total: 58.1 million
thank you for that. now i have something to work off of. its kinda funny that with everyone always making such a fuss about this issue that only one guy could step up and ball park it like this. kudos to you.

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07-09-2010, 03:43 PM
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1st Line - LW - C -RW = $15 million (avg $5M per player)
2nd Line - LW - C - RW = $10.5 million (avg $3M per player)
3rd Line - LW - C - RW = $4.5 million (avg $1.5M per player)
4th Line - LW - C - RW = $2.7 million (avg $900K per player)

1st Pair LD - RD = $10 million (avg $5M per player)
2nd Pair LD - RD = $7 million (avg $3.5M per player)
3rd Pair/Extra LD - RD = $3.3 million (avg $1.1M per player)

Starting G = $3.75 million
Backup G = $750K

Total cap hit ~= $57.5 million

This is the most I'd spend on a team personally. I didnt break it down by actual position (except goalie) because its often difficult to give exact numbers at each one. I went with an average because you could have one star player on a line making a bit more than the complimentary players on that line. This is also if almost every player was in their prime playing yrs too. But it gives the team a lot of balance which is what I was going for.

Also if you look around the league, these averages seem about right. A top pairing d-man could be had for around $5M per yr (Gonchar for example). Also I seem to see that every offseason, 2nd pairing d-men can be signed around $3-3.5M so I think I've got that right. One thing that I did with the defense is include a 7th d-man in that calculation. I always think its important to have a depth guy who can step in but for a cheap amount too. And I do want a good vet on the 3rd pairing who probably would get paired with a young d-man. So the average is about right (the vet will probably get closer to $2M with the other 2 splitting the rest).

If the team is good at managing their cap space, they have 1-2 top line players making around $6M each with a complimentary player making around $3M (Detroit for example). I will say that most of the money I had set aside for the top 2 lines was allocated to the center position. That is always going to be the lynch pin of any line so they are valuable. I wouldnt spend too much on the 3rd or 4th line expecting some of them to be role players who are cheap and maybe like 1-2 core players who are better paid.

Goalies are often replaceable so I wouldnt pay too much for one to be honest. Something in the $3-4M range is very fair but important to keep developing goalies too. Backups are easy to find too and you can find a good servicable one at the price I listed.

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07-09-2010, 04:08 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
1st Line - LW - C -RW = $15 million (avg $5M per player)
2nd Line - LW - C - RW = $10.5 million (avg $3M per player)
3rd Line - LW - C - RW = $4.5 million (avg $1.5M per player)
4th Line - LW - C - RW = $2.7 million (avg $900K per player)

1st Pair LD - RD = $10 million (avg $5M per player)
2nd Pair LD - RD = $7 million (avg $3.5M per player)
3rd Pair/Extra LD - RD = $3.3 million (avg $1.1M per player)

Starting G = $3.75 million
Backup G = $750K

Total cap hit ~= $57.5 million

This is the most I'd spend on a team personally. I didnt break it down by actual position (except goalie) because its often difficult to give exact numbers at each one. I went with an average because you could have one star player on a line making a bit more than the complimentary players on that line. This is also if almost every player was in their prime playing yrs too. But it gives the team a lot of balance which is what I was going for.

Also if you look around the league, these averages seem about right. A top pairing d-man could be had for around $5M per yr (Gonchar for example). Also I seem to see that every offseason, 2nd pairing d-men can be signed around $3-3.5M so I think I've got that right. One thing that I did with the defense is include a 7th d-man in that calculation. I always think its important to have a depth guy who can step in but for a cheap amount too. And I do want a good vet on the 3rd pairing who probably would get paired with a young d-man. So the average is about right (the vet will probably get closer to $2M with the other 2 splitting the rest).

If the team is good at managing their cap space, they have 1-2 top line players making around $6M each with a complimentary player making around $3M (Detroit for example). I will say that most of the money I had set aside for the top 2 lines was allocated to the center position. That is always going to be the lynch pin of any line so they are valuable. I wouldnt spend too much on the 3rd or 4th line expecting some of them to be role players who are cheap and maybe like 1-2 core players who are better paid.

Goalies are often replaceable so I wouldnt pay too much for one to be honest. Something in the $3-4M range is very fair but important to keep developing goalies too. Backups are easy to find too and you can find a good servicable one at the price I listed.
If you pay a goalie 5-6 mm it is quite a risk. Your goalie might not be worth the money long term. I think goalies are handed too much money based on a relatively short period of success. It's a problem since goalies do get hot and how do you know if a goalie is really good or that he just got hot at the right time. Even if a goalie is more than just one player, I would take a chance and not 'build from the net out'. As Panther fans, we should know that that is not necessarily the recipe for success. And most definately not the only one.

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