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Niemi on the open market

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Old
07-09-2010, 02:11 PM
  #1
BillyShoe1721
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Niemi on the open market

Say he gets a ridiculous award from the arbitration judge, and the Hawks decide he isn't worth it and go with a cheap UFA option like Turco or Theodore, hoping they could get a guy like Harding or one of their own guys fills the gap. Who would be interested in Niemi, and what could he get paid?

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07-09-2010, 02:13 PM
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mouser
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It's certainly shaping up to be a buyer's market on UFA goalies this offseason.

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07-09-2010, 02:33 PM
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No more than $2m for a guy who faced 24 shots per game over half a season and still only managed the 19th best save percentage in the league.

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07-09-2010, 02:37 PM
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Teemu
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Question for cap gurus: Can the Blackhawks sign Niemi for less than the arbitrator's award if they let him go UFA?

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07-09-2010, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teemu View Post
Question for cap gurus: Can the Blackhawks sign Niemi for less than the arbitrator's award if they let him go UFA?
Why would Niemi do that?

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07-09-2010, 02:42 PM
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I have a feeling if Niemi finds himself as UFA, he might have a problems securing more money than he could have gotten from Chicago. And I would think that playing behind one of the best defenses in the league would be an added bonus worth earning a little less for. It's not like these overpaid athletes are going to starve with these ridiculous sums being paid to them.

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07-09-2010, 02:43 PM
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Teemu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GParros View Post
Why would Niemi do that?
Let's say he gets an award of 3 mil. The Hawks walk away, but no other team wants him for 3 mil (most teams seem pretty content with their goalie situation right now), and thus he is forced to ask for less. I was wondering if there was anything in the CBA preventing the Hawks from being able to pitch him a new offer.

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07-09-2010, 02:45 PM
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hockeyfreak7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GParros View Post
Why would Niemi do that?
The arbitrator's decision isnt the final law.

The arbitrator could say he's worth 100 million per season, but Niemi would have to realize that no team is going to sign him for that much, and lower his price.

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07-09-2010, 02:47 PM
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mouser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teemu View Post
Question for cap gurus: Can the Blackhawks sign Niemi for less than the arbitrator's award if they let him go UFA?
Yes. If he goes UFA he can sign with anyone for any price, including resigning with the Hawks.

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Old
07-09-2010, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
The arbitrator's decision isnt the final law.

The arbitrator could say he's worth 100 million per season, but Niemi would have to realize that no team is going to sign him for that much, and lower his price.
I'm well aware of the function of an arbitrator's decision. Thanks.

If you were Antti Niemi and you just sat through a round of your own team trashing you to lower your value in the eyes of an arbitrator, and your own team walked away from an arbitrator's determination of your actual value, would you want to go back to that team?

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07-09-2010, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GParros View Post
I'm well aware of the function of an arbitrator's decision. Thanks.

If you were Antti Niemi and you just sat through a round of your own team trashing you to lower your value in the eyes of an arbitrator, and your own team walked away from an arbitrator's determination of your actual value, would you want to go back to that team?
Funny how you can spin something to prove your own point.

If the Hawks walk away and no other team calls him, he might just have to crawl back to Chicago for less money then he originally wanted.

Do we really think Niemi has intentions of leaving Chicago? He just won a Cup there and if another team is offering him the same deal as Chicago, he doesnt have any reason to pack up and leave.

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07-09-2010, 02:52 PM
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EmeticDonut
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Probably would, if there is no other interest from other teams (doubtful). Would it be so horrible to go back to the team that you just won the Cup with and earning in a year more than an average person earns their entire life?

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07-09-2010, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
Funny how you can spin something to prove your own point.

If the Hawks walk away and no other team calls him, he might just have to crawl back to Chicago for less money then he originally wanted.

Do we really think Niemi has intentions of leaving Chicago? He just won a Cup there and if another team is offering him the same deal as Chicago, he doesnt have any reason to pack up and leave.
It's not spinning anything, it's all a truthful representation of what will occur. And yes, I think his filing for arbitration instead of getting something done earlier indicates that he's willing to leave Chicago. The fact that he already achieved the ultimate prize doesn't increase the likelihood that he'll return to the team he did it with.

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07-09-2010, 03:03 PM
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You might see the Flyers take a stab at him for less than what was awarded... probably around 2.5mil give or take. Maybe even ATL as they seem to love getting ex-hawks (doesn't make sense with Pavelec but who knows, maybe they are far away from making a deal with him).

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07-09-2010, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GParros View Post
It's not spinning anything, it's all a truthful representation of what will occur. And yes, I think his filing for arbitration instead of getting something done earlier indicates that he's willing to leave Chicago. The fact that he already achieved the ultimate prize doesn't increase the likelihood that he'll return to the team he did it with.
You are using only the facts that you want to use, though. It's not truthful anything. There are a lot more factors than just what the GM says about the goalie in an arbitration hearing.

Maybe Niemi is willing to leave Chicago, but I have a hard time believing any team will be willing to give him a big time contract if that is what the arbitrator awards. That's why he might have to lower his price from what the arbitrator says is fair.

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07-09-2010, 03:06 PM
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Drake1588
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There is an 85% minimum of the award provision, following team-elected arbitration walkaways.

For player-elected arbitration, if the player wins and the team walks away, there are no restrictions. The player can sign with his old team, as a UFA, for however high or low a salary he wants... of course, few players re-up with their old squads after the team walks away after arbitration, but there is no restriction for that type of arbitration. He could be awarded $4M, the team could walk away, and he could sign in Chicago an hour later for $1M.

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07-09-2010, 03:11 PM
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pman25
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Yeah, almost happened with Zherdev last year. He was awarded close to 4 mil in arbitration, they walked away. And then he calls the Rangers and asks if he can play for his QO which was like 3.25 mil i think. But he was turned down. So yeah, Chicago could certainly walk away and sign Niemi for less

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Old
07-09-2010, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
You are using only the facts that you want to use, though. It's not truthful anything. There are a lot more factors than just what the GM says about the goalie in an arbitration hearing.

Maybe Niemi is willing to leave Chicago, but I have a hard time believing any team will be willing to give him a big time contract if that is what the arbitrator awards. That's why he might have to lower his price from what the arbitrator says is fair.
You do realize that you just said "facts aren't truthful" in so many words, right?

I never said, implied, or so much as hinted that there wasn't more to an arbitration hearing than the GM's word - don't put words in my mouth and then use what I didn't say as a basis to argue with me.

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07-09-2010, 04:04 PM
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hockeyfreak7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GParros View Post
You do realize that you just said "facts aren't truthful" in so many words, right?

I never said, implied, or so much as hinted that there wasn't more to an arbitration hearing than the GM's word - don't put words in my mouth and then use what I didn't say as a basis to argue with me.
This is what you said:

"If you were Antti Niemi and you just sat through a round of your own team trashing you to lower your value in the eyes of an arbitrator, and your own team walked away from an arbitrator's determination of your actual value, would you want to go back to that team?"

You used the fact that Niemi will be trashed in arbitration as your basis that Niemi will not return.

I used the fact that Niemi just won the Stanley Cup as my basis that he will return.

We both used facts, and multiple facts make up the truth. Not just the ones you decide to use in your argument. You spun that statement by only one sided facts to make your conclusion. Why are we arguing this anyways? This is pointless, lol.

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Old
07-09-2010, 04:55 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
This is what you said:

"If you were Antti Niemi and you just sat through a round of your own team trashing you to lower your value in the eyes of an arbitrator, and your own team walked away from an arbitrator's determination of your actual value, would you want to go back to that team?"

You used the fact that Niemi will be trashed in arbitration as your basis that Niemi will not return.

I used the fact that Niemi just won the Stanley Cup as my basis that he will return.

We both used facts, and multiple facts make up the truth. Not just the ones you decide to use in your argument. You spun that statement by only one sided facts to make your conclusion. Why are we arguing this anyways? This is pointless, lol.
You said "truthful," not "the truth." You said, in as many words, "facts aren't truthful." Regardless, I used Niemi's pitiful save percentage, his being trashed in arbitration, and Chicago's walking away from an "objective" determination of his worth as reasons for why he'd be inclined to leave. You came up with "he won a Cup," which doesn't even begin to support an argument that he'd want to return, despite everything I just stated having occurred.

Honestly, what's the correlation between winning the Stanley Cup and wanting to return to the team you did it with? Don't get googly-eyed and think this is about the friendships or the camaraderie. It's a career.

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07-09-2010, 04:59 PM
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I am guessing Halak's 3.75M will be used to compare Niemi to.

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Old
07-09-2010, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
There is an 85% minimum of the award provision, following team-elected arbitration walkaways.
Huh????

There are no walk away rights for a team elected arbitration - which is a moot point, since Niem's was a player elected one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA Article 12.10(e)
(e) No Club shall be entitled to walk away from any award in a Club-elected
salary arbitration.
Are you thinking about the old (pre-Lockout) CBA where if a team walked away from an arb award, they retained the rights to match any UFA offer the player signed for < 80% of the award.

That right no longer exists under the current CBA.

Or are you thinking a team electing arbitration in lieu of a QO - in which case the lowest award an arbiter can make is 85% of the player's previous salary. It has nothing to do with walkaway rights (as I said, the team cannot walk away from a team elected arbitration) or signing the player as a UFA.

Quote:
For player-elected arbitration, if the player wins and the team walks away, there are no restrictions. The player can sign with his old team, as a UFA, for however high or low a salary he wants... of course, few players re-up with their old squads after the team walks away after arbitration, but there is no restriction for that type of arbitration. He could be awarded $4M, the team could walk away, and he could sign in Chicago an hour later for $1M.
Correct.

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Old
07-09-2010, 05:11 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GParros View Post
You said "truthful," not "the truth." You said, in as many words, "facts aren't truthful."
And that's tonight's Word


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Old
07-09-2010, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
I am guessing Halak's 3.75M will be used to compare Niemi to.
Why not Leighton's @ 1.5mil? I don't get it, Niemi is clearly not the goalie Halak is, and defense carried him all season/playoffs, much like Leighton.

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Old
07-09-2010, 05:18 PM
  #25
Respect Your Edler
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UFAs are not comparable, so Leighton cannot be used. He'll probably get around 3M. I imagine that he'll sign in Philly if Chicago walks away.

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