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Old
07-10-2010, 08:32 PM
  #1
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LA - Dallas

Just wondering again,

To L.A.

Brad Richards

To DAL

LA 1st in 2011
Alec Martinez
Jason Williams or Jarrett Stoll?

Enough, not enough?

DAL doesn't need to shed salary, but does, I don't know if Richards wants to resign there, if he doesn't, this makes easier to deal him, they get at a minimum 2 solid young pieces that would help their rebuild, which, they are doing, and they get a good roster player at a cheaper deal.

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07-10-2010, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Just wondering again,

To L.A.

Brad Richards

To DAL

LA 1st in 2011
Alec Martinez
Jason Williams or Jarrett Stoll?

Enough, not enough?

DAL doesn't need to shed salary, but does, I don't know if Richards wants to resign there, if he doesn't, this makes easier to deal him, they get at a minimum 2 solid young pieces that would help their rebuild, which, they are doing, and they get a good roster player at a cheaper deal.
I think this is a steal for the Kings, not enough worth going to Dallas.

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07-10-2010, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Belanger25 View Post
I think this is a steal for the Kings, not enough worth going to Dallas.
Yea, quite possibly, but what else do you throw in?

Also, if Richards isn't gonna resign with Dallas, do you trade him now to try to get more value?

I have absolutely no idea if Richards wants to stay in Dallas or not.

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07-10-2010, 08:36 PM
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Why would Dallass trade their #1 center for a few chumps? You should delete this crap before a Stars fan reads this.

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07-10-2010, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Irreverent View Post
Why would Dallass trade their #1 center for a few chumps? You should delete this crap before a Stars fan reads this.
Again, if Richards has absolutely no interest in re-signing with Dallas, why wouldn't they get a 1st and a good young Dman to go with their rebuilding?

I can see them waiting until the deadline, but his cap hit makes the teams that can actually take him, few and far between.

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07-10-2010, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Again, if Richards has absolutely no interest in re-signing with Dallas, why wouldn't they get a 1st and a good young Dman to go with their rebuilding?
Because a 1st and Alec Martinez(Who isn't even the best young D-Man that Dallas could pry from LA) isn't enough. Williams and Stoll isn't anything worth going crazy over. Maybe it's just me, but Dallas could get more worth.

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07-10-2010, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Belanger25 View Post
Because a 1st and Alec Martinez(Who isn't even the best young D-Man that Dallas could pry from LA) isn't enough. Williams and Stoll isn't anything worth going crazy over. Maybe it's just me, but Dallas could get more worth.
Like I said, quite possibly, but the number of teams that can afford to take on his 7.5 hit, is very very few.

From those teams, only 2 or 3 has a legitimate need for Richards?

LA can easily afford to throw in another mid level prospect, who would you suggest?

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07-10-2010, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Yea, quite possibly, but what else do you throw in?

Also, if Richards isn't gonna resign with Dallas, do you trade him now to try to get more value?

I have absolutely no idea if Richards wants to stay in Dallas or not.
Hard to say what Richards will do. It's debatable, but he's said he'd like to get a deal done soon to stay in Dallas, and yet in the past he's made comments to lead fans to believe otherwise. I think he will resign and it is likely on Joe's priority list, but thats just opinion, and with Joe's recent GMing, you never really know. If ownership is sorted out in the near future, I think this makes it more likely we see Richards extend with Dallas.

OP is not great considering it will be a late 1st rounder, Martinez doesn't really excite me. We need impact in the form of a solid defender or winger (plus the picks/prospects) if we move our best player.

Your sell while value is highest concept has merit and that's an additional reason why the OP is garb.

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07-10-2010, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon Casey 91 View Post
Hard to say what Richards will do. It's debatable, but he's said he'd like to get a deal done soon to stay in Dallas, and yet in the past he's made comments to lead fans to believe otherwise. I think he will resign and it is likely on Joe's priority list, but thats just opinion, and with Joe's recent GMing, you never really know. If ownership is sorted out in the near future, I think this makes it more likely we see Richards extend with Dallas.

OP is not great considering it will be a late 1st rounder, Martinez doesn't really excite me. We need impact in the form of a solid defender or winger (plus the picks/prospects) if we move our best player.

Your sell while value is highest concept has merit and that's an additional reason why the OP is garb.
Definitely makes sense, If he re-signs, chances are he will request and get a NTC, so that makes everything a mute point.

As far as impact player plus picks and prospects, I think alot would depend on if Richards would sign an extension with LA, as that would make him much more valuable.

Of course, if he does that, I don't know if LA trades for him, just because he would require an impact player like a Brown/Simmonds etc plus the pick and prospects,

I guess I am basing this one one year of Richards with the ability to negotiate a new deal, and that Richards either doesn't want to resign with Dallas or Dallas can't afford to resign him based on ownership.

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07-10-2010, 09:03 PM
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OK look, if we give you Richards, that 1st rounder will be in the mid to late 20s. So nothing amazing to say the least. And then we're supposed to get excited about Martinez and Williams/Stoll?

The Stars will attempt to re-sign Richards for the rest of the summer and for the first 2/3rds of next season. It's not like Richards will just refuse to negotiate because he hates Dallas so much. If, after all that, they still can't get him signed, and the team still doesn't have an owner, then it becomes time to consider trading him at the deadline.

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07-10-2010, 09:05 PM
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If we knew Richards would sign an extension with LA then I think it is worth parting with a valuable player like Simmonds.

Simmonds + Stoll + Martinez (not really a fan) for Richards with an extended contract?

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07-10-2010, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by piqued1457 View Post
OK look, if we give you Richards, that 1st rounder will be in the mid to late 20s. So nothing amazing to say the least. And then we're supposed to get excited about Martinez and Williams/Stoll?

The Stars will attempt to re-sign Richards for the rest of the summer and for the first 2/3rds of next season. It's not like Richards will just refuse to negotiate because he hates Dallas so much. If, after all that, they still can't get him signed, and the team still doesn't have an owner, then it becomes time to consider trading him at the deadline.
And you would get less value at the deadline, there will probably be less teams that can fit him in, AND would be willing to give up top prospects/picks etc As it is there market is very limited etc.

And I don't know enough about the 2011 draft to see how deep it is etc, but any 1st round pick is something to get excited about as long as you have faith in your scouts.

Having said that, Martinez is not flashy and he isn't a future top 1 or 2, but he will develop into a very nice 3/4 dman.

If you want flash over substance, go for it.

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07-10-2010, 09:09 PM
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Yes, I want flash over substance. Exactly, great analysis. Here, have Richards as your reward.

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07-10-2010, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by piqued1457 View Post
Yes, I want flash over substance. Exactly, great analysis. Here, have Richards as your reward.
Sorry, maybe I misread your

"We are supposed to get excited over Martinez and Stoll/Willams" comment as, who are those guys etc?

Point being, Martinez is projected to have a long career in the NHL, probably as a 3rd/4th dman, that plus the 1st round pick is a solid base for a team looking to rebuild.

Is it enough for 1 year of Richards, no, probably not, so you get Stoll or Williams back, is that enough for 1 year of Richards, I would think so, is it worth more than 1 year of Richards, no, no it's not.

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07-10-2010, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
And you would get less value at the deadline, there will probably be less teams that can fit him in, AND would be willing to give up top prospects/picks etc As it is there market is very limited etc.

And I don't know enough about the 2011 draft to see how deep it is etc, but any 1st round pick is something to get excited about as long as you have faith in your scouts.

Having said that, Martinez is not flashy and he isn't a future top 1 or 2, but he will develop into a very nice 3/4 dman.

If you want flash over substance, go for it.
Yes, because Dallas needs another 3/4 D-Man.

I'd rather management try to resign Richards or lose him for nothing than give him away for that package.

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07-10-2010, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Winning Aces View Post
Yes, because Dallas needs another 3/4 D-Man.

I'd rather management try to resign Richards or lose him for nothing than give him away for that package.
Really?

And don't get me wrong, like I said, if they re-sign Richards, there obviously won't be a deal, but you would really rather have Richards walk than get a 1st round pick, a solid player in Stoll or Williams, and a solid young Dman?

Wow

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07-10-2010, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by riznat View Post
If we knew Richards would sign an extension with LA then I think it is worth parting with a valuable player like Simmonds.

Simmonds + Stoll + Martinez (not really a fan) for Richards with an extended contract?
These type of comments are the funniest IMO. Does the GM even know that? We just watched Phi and Pitts give up picks and players to negotiate with a guy who didn't sign, never mind getting one year. And we saw the Blues fork over their version of Jamie Benn (Eller) plus to get an unsigned Halak. Yes, I know he was an RFA, but who knows the dollar figure and length of deal he could have been asking at the time of the deal. It's a business, and you have to pay to get assets. Richards just scored 90 points and he's got a decent resume; he's worth alot.

If you want the player, you probably know the players background/personality somewhat and can make a good guess as to whether he would resign. My guess is, yes Richards would resign with a team we all know will be knocking on the door for the foreseeable future. That and I'm guessing LA is not an awful place to enjoy the millions of dollars he's amassed thus far in his career.

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07-10-2010, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon Casey 91 View Post
These type of comments are the funniest IMO. Does the GM even know that? We just watched Phi and Pitts give up picks and players to negotiate with a guy who didn't sign, never mind getting one year. And we saw the Blues fork over their version of Jamie Benn (Eller) plus to get an unsigned Halak. Yes, I know he was an RFA, but who knows the dollar figure and length of deal he could have been asking at the time of the deal. It's a business, and you have to pay to get assets. Richards just scored 90 points and he's got a decent resume; he's worth alot.

If you want the player, you probably know the players background/personality somewhat and can make a good guess as to whether he would resign. My guess is, yes Richards would resign with a team we all know will be knocking on the door for the foreseeable future. That and I'm guessing LA is not an awful place to enjoy the millions of dollars he's amassed thus far in his career.
LOL True, and true,

But, some people don't like LA, and I don't mean the hockey, I know, a shocker, but I couldn't wait to get out of L.A., ended up in
Toronto and nearly slapped myself, it's the same freaking thing just with snow.

Anyways, I agree, you would have an inkling that Richards would resign, but there is always the chance that he does not, and that is the fine line, you don't want to cripple yourself if he doesn't resign, but you need to add enough to get him in the first place.

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07-10-2010, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Really?

And don't get me wrong, like I said, if they re-sign Richards, there obviously won't be a deal, but you would really rather have Richards walk than get a 1st round pick, a solid player in Stoll or Williams, and a solid young Dman?

Wow
I'm pretty serious, actually.

The Kings 1st rounder could range from 15 to late 20s next season which is not amazing considering next year's draft is one of the weakest in recent history. (That's the rumor anyway.)

Stoll gets dumped by every Kings fan. Every proposal an L.A fan makes has Stoll part of the package. That tells me his level of play doesn't match the money he's making because he's certainly not expendable since your center depth behind Kopitar is... Handzus? And, as for Williams. When was the last time that guy actually played a full season? The guy is made of glass.

A solid young D-Man, we've got plenty of those in Niskanen, Fistric, Larsen, and Daley.

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07-10-2010, 09:40 PM
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LOL True, and true,

But, some people don't like LA, and I don't mean the hockey, I know, a shocker, but I couldn't wait to get out of L.A., ended up in
Toronto and nearly slapped myself, it's the same freaking thing just with snow.

Anyways, I agree, you would have an inkling that Richards would resign, but there is always the chance that he does not, and that is the fine line, you don't want to cripple yourself if he doesn't resign, but you need to add enough to get him in the first place.
Agreed, but I hardly think this is a part of Joe and Deans conversation if a deal like this were in the works.

Dean: Joe we want Brad, but we don't know if he signs beyond the one year we get of him.

Joe's options:

Do you want him or not? He just was 7th in NHL scoring and has won a Conn Smythe which may be good for a youthful squad that will be playoff bound for many years to come.

or

Okay Dean, I see your point, just give us a 3rd, an average winger or center and a mid tier prospect.


I just don't see the extension detracting from a players value as much as many people do... unless the player voiced he won't play in a certain conference....cough, cough...Kaberle.

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07-10-2010, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Winning Aces View Post
I'm pretty serious, actually.

The Kings 1st rounder could range from 15 to late 20s next season which is not amazing considering next year's draft is one of the weakest in recent history. (That's the rumor anyway.)

Stoll gets dumped by every Kings fan. Every proposal an L.A fan makes has Stoll part of the package. That tells me his level of play doesn't match the money he's making because he's certainly not expendable since your center depth behind Kopitar is... Handzus? And, as for Williams. When was the last time that guy actually played a full season? The guy is made of glass.

A solid young D-Man, we've got plenty of those in Niskanen, Fistric, Larsen, and Daley.
Like I said, don't know the depth of the draft, but you are basically saying you would rather have nothing, than a potential blue chip prospect.

Stoll is being asked to be a 2nd line C, I don't think he is, if we trade for Richards or sign a C, he is easily expendable. Stoll is a very solid player, just one that LA can trade.

Williams, never been a huge fan of his even without the injuries,

As far as having enough 3/4 dman, not true, never have enough, what do you do if Larsen and Daley just fizzle out, not saying they will,but what if?

You are saying you would rather have nothing,over having another solid young prospect,

You are either completely out of touch with reality, or just don't know any better.

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07-10-2010, 09:45 PM
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Richards was in the top 10 in scoring and goes into another gear during the playoffs. If Hossa (who was a UFA back in 08/09) can fetch a late 1st, a solid roster player (Colby Armstrong), and a top prospect (Angelo Espesito) then there's no reason why Richards can't do the same.

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07-10-2010, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Winning Aces View Post
I'm pretty serious, actually.

The Kings 1st rounder could range from 15 to late 20s next season which is not amazing considering next year's draft is one of the weakest in recent history. (That's the rumor anyway.)

Stoll gets dumped by every Kings fan. Every proposal an L.A fan makes has Stoll part of the package. That tells me his level of play doesn't match the money he's making because he's certainly not expendable since your center depth behind Kopitar is... Handzus? And, as for Williams. When was the last time that guy actually played a full season? The guy is made of glass.

A solid young D-Man, we've got plenty of those in Niskanen, Fistric, Larsen, and Daley.

Very true, but I don't get it. It's just fans trying to tidy the payroll and always thinking younger is better. I believe they are misinformed. Stoll was the captain for a Canadian world junior team, is excellent at faceoffs, is a 2 way player with a cannon on the PP. Like I said, I don't get it. I grew up playing on a couple teams with him and he's always been known as a character guy.

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07-10-2010, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jon Casey 91 View Post
Agreed, but I hardly think this is a part of Joe and Deans conversation if a deal like this were in the works.

Dean: Joe we want Brad, but we don't know if he signs beyond the one year we get of him.

Joe's options:

Do you want him or not? He just was 7th in NHL scoring and has won a Conn Smythe which may be good for a youthful squad that will be playoff bound for many years to come.

or

Okay Dean, I see your point, just give us a 3rd, an average winger or center and a mid tier prospect.


I just don't see the extension detracting from a players value as much as many people do... unless the player voiced he won't play in a certain conference....cough, cough...Kaberle.
LOL, I do, maybe that's where we disagree, I easily see a better deal for Kovalchuk than NJ gave if he was signed past this year and just had privately requested a trade,

If teams know that you have problems signing a player, you simply will not get enough value for that player, if a team is in doubt if that player signs, they simply do not give the value that he would command if he was signed.

I believe you are saying that Richards at 1 year will command the same value in trade that Richards at 3 years would get, right?

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07-10-2010, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Winning Aces View Post
Richards was in the top 10 in scoring and goes into another gear during the playoffs. If Hossa (who was a UFA back in 08/09) can fetch a late 1st, a solid roster player (Colby Armstrong), and a top prospect (Angelo Espesito) then there's no reason why Richards can't do the same.
I would have to see, but didn't Armstrong move on after his deal, didn't he have a 1 year deal when that trade went down, or 1 year left on his deal?

Esposito was never a top prospect, sorry.

Anyways, that is essentially what Richards will get you, a late 1st, a solid roster player, and a mid level prospect, which, Esposito may have been, he was never a top prospect,

But they also got Dupuis in that deal, it was not just Hossa.

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