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NYR Off-Season Thread Part 2

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Old
06-19-2010, 05:40 PM
  #1
FromTheSide
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NYR Off-Season Thread Part 2

Part 1 is getting locked up soon (over 1000+ posts)

So lets continue all the kovalchuk arguements here.

EDIT - Forgot to put speculation, Mod edit please?

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06-19-2010, 05:45 PM
  #2
azrok22
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Allow me to start off the discussion, again, and quote my post from the end of the other thread.
Quote:
I don't see any scenario where our offense ends up better than by adding Kovalchuk

Dubinsky - Christensen - Gaborik
Kovalchuk - Anisimov - MZA/Callahan
Avery - Drury - Callahan/MZA
Prust - Boyle - Shelley/Byers/Weise

Better than with the second-tier UFAs: Plekanec, Marleau, etc.

Better than with bringing back/in old guys on short term deals: Prospal/Demitra/etc.

Better than with trading our own players/prospects/picks for available players: Horton, Sharp, even Spezza.

Kovalchuk is the best solution, both short, and more importantly, long term.

Of course he could choose to go to LA, Russia or somewhere else. I only advocate making a competitive offer, with a cap hit at $9.5 million or less (obviously preferably less).

Look at the two teams in the Stanley Cup finals this year... both abused 40+ year old contracts to bring cap hits in line (although Pronger's hasn't started yet).

Kovalchuk's 27 years old... we could sign him until he's 42 (15 year deal!) to bring the cap hit down just like Hossa/Pronger.

Years 1-8: $11.5m per year (until he is 36 years old).
Years 10-12: $6m (until he is 39)
Years 12-15: $1m (until he is 42)

He walks away with $92m over 8 years, $110m over 10, and $116 over 11. He almost definitely retires before the end, but we will have had him for his prime. The beauty? Total Cap Hit of $7.533m. Can't see any team beating that. Give him a full NTC, but not a NMC. If he wants a shorter term (no way he would, imo), then the $ amount will obviously be less.

He may go elsewhere, but at least we tried to improve. And it's only Dolan's money!

EDIT: Not to mention the cap will probably be astronomically higher in 5, 10, or 15 years.

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06-19-2010, 05:51 PM
  #3
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Just a little head-ups. Reports say that marleau is going to re-sign with san jose and MTL cleared cap to re-sign plekanec.So i think thats a no-no either way you look at it.

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Old
06-19-2010, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AOWRanger View Post
Just a little head-ups. Reports say that marleau is going to re-sign with san jose and MTL cleared cap to re-sign plekanec.So i think thats a no-no either way you look at it.
I'd feel much better if they do. Those contracts are my biggest fear this offseason.

Kovalchuk or short-term K.

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06-19-2010, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
I'd feel much better if they do. Those contracts are my biggest fear this offseason.

Kovalchuk or short-term K.
Personally i'd sign prospal first and then worry about kovalchuk.Ilya is great and all but we need some god damn energy on our roster and prospal brings it like a 12-yr old opening a Nintendo 64 box

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06-19-2010, 06:01 PM
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azrok22
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Originally Posted by AOWRanger View Post
Personally i'd sign prospal first and then worry about kovalchuk.Ilya is great and all but we need some god damn energy on our roster and prospal brings it like a 12-yr old opening a Nintendo 64 box
Kovalchuk is a very "high energy" player. He's not Ovechkin, but I'd consider Kovalchuk a lot "higher energy" than Prospal.

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Old
06-19-2010, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AOWRanger View Post
Just a little head-ups. Reports say that marleau is going to re-sign with san jose and MTL cleared cap to re-sign plekanec.So i think thats a no-no either way you look at it.
Interesting. I wonder if hes taking a pay cut. If not, Nabby will have to if he wants to stay.

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Old
06-19-2010, 07:13 PM
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With Hamhuis's rights being traded for Parent and a conditional pick, is there any way we could've matched that? Are Sangs, Gilroy, Sauer on that level where we could've made this trade? I like Hamhuis but if he's going to wind up in Philly, we should definitely inquire on Mitchell from Vancouver or Michalek from Phoenix... Redden has to go!!!

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06-19-2010, 07:49 PM
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go big or stay home. kovy or just bring up some youth and deal with a bad season, were due for one.

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Old
06-19-2010, 08:26 PM
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No to Kovalchuk. He would help this team short term(actually he wouldn't, because this team, is going to suck next year IMO), but will tie up cap in the future.

Get Staal signed, Christensen, Girardi as well, and McDonaugh of course.

No Kovalchuk, Marleau, Plekanec, or other big - name forward. This team is re-building, and adding another undeserved 9 mil won't help. Patience is key to contending, and unfortunately, the Rangers don't have patience. Sign a defenseman like Hamhuis, compensate Coburn, a player like that.

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06-19-2010, 08:32 PM
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No to Kovalchuk. He wants too much for what he brings. This team isn't contending anytime soon, and Kovalchuk's high cap will not help in a salary-capped era. No to any big name. Hamhuis, or a Foster or Sutton would help, but 5 mil+ contracts are a no go.

Re-sign Staal at all costs, he's going to be our franchise player, he has that potential, and had an excellent season last year. Dhristensen and Prust should be re-upped as well, and Redden sent down.

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06-19-2010, 08:42 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cally Is Overrated View Post
No to Kovalchuk. He wants too much for what he brings. This team isn't contending anytime soon, and Kovalchuk's high cap will not help in a salary-capped era. No to any big name. Hamhuis, or a Foster or Sutton would help, but 5 mil+ contracts are a no go.

Re-sign Staal at all costs, he's going to be our franchise player, he has that potential, and had an excellent season last year. Dhristensen and Prust should be re-upped as well, and Redden sent down.
Hamhuis you can pretty much scratch off the list. He more then likely will re-sign with Philly. Not to mention he'll probably get close or over $5 million per year. Sutton is a big cone. No way to him. Foster may be damaged goods, and I don't mean that in a bad way. I can only imagine still whats going through his mind, losing a new born like that. I have a nine week old myself and I don't think i'd be training right now, getting ready for next season. I see him coming back mid-season at the earliest, if he takes a full year I would not be surpised.

And if the Rangers are in no position to content anytime soon (If that was the opinion of the Rangers management), I'd do whatever it takes to get the players needed to make a push, because Lunqvist and Gaborik are not getting any younger and they are in their prime years now.

If Kovalchuk can be had for the right price, you have to make a move for him. The Rangers have the depth players and the players that have top 6 potential in the system, but no elite talent. Don't really see the Rangers getting an elite player at 10th overall this draft. The cap keeps going up and should keep going up (It has gone up even in one of the worst recessions since the Great Depression). Drury and Roszival are off the books in two years. If the deal makes sense, it has to be done. If he insists on a cap hit of over $9 million, then thanks but no thanks. Anything below that and it should be a go.

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Old
06-19-2010, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
Hamhuis you can pretty much scratch off the list. He more then likely will re-sign with Philly. Not to mention he'll probably get close or over $5 million per year. Sutton is a big cone. No way to him. Foster may be damaged goods, and I don't mean that in a bad way. I can only imagine still whats going through his mind, losing a new born like that. I have a nine week old myself and I don't think i'd be training right now, getting ready for next season. I see him coming back mid-season at the earliest, if he takes a full year I would not be surpised.

And if the Rangers are in no position to content anytime soon (If that was the opinion of the Rangers management), I'd do whatever it takes to get the players needed to make a push, because Lunqvist and Gaborik are not getting any younger and they are in their prime years now.

If Kovalchuk can be had for the right price, you have to make a move for him. The Rangers have the depth players and the players that have top 6 potential in the system, but no elite talent. Don't really see the Rangers getting an elite player at 10th overall this draft. The cap keeps going up and should keep going up (It has gone up even in one of the worst recessions since the Great Depression). Drury and Roszival are off the books in two years. If the deal makes sense, it has to be done. If he insists on a cap hit of over $9 million, then thanks but no thanks. Anything below that and it should be a go.
Kovy would be gold at 7.5. I'd be iffy on 8 though. If we can have the cap to re-sign our 2011 RFAs, and have money for a first line center like B. Richards or Thornton, then I'm all for it. Biggest hole though is center. We need a top-6 center, which we have none of at the moment.

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06-19-2010, 08:52 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cally Is Overrated View Post
Kovy would be gold at 7.5. I'd be iffy on 8 though. If we can have the cap to re-sign our 2011 RFAs, and have money for a first line center like B. Richards or Thornton, then I'm all for it. Biggest hole though is center. We need a top-6 center, which we have none of at the moment.
I think Anisimov would thrive centering a second line with Kovalchuk and either MZA or Callahan. In your other post you wanted to re-up Christiansen. He is only worth re-signing if he is going to center Gaborik. He is one of those players that are worthless outside of the top six.

I think Stepan will be ready for full time NHL duty after a year in the AHL. He should be ready to go in 2011-12. I don't think he has the potential to be a 1A center, but a good 1B that would probably thrive as a second line center. I'd rather give him a shot then sign an aging Richards or Thornton. They will get a lot more money then they are worth, not to mention they are on the tailend of their prime years.

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Old
06-19-2010, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
I think Anisimov would thrive centering a second line with Kovalchuk and either MZA or Callahan. In your other post you wanted to re-up Christiansen. He is only worth re-signing if he is going to center Gaborik. He is one of those players that are worthless outside of the top six.

I think Stepan will be ready for full time NHL duty after a year in the AHL. He should be ready to go in 2011-12. I don't think he has the potential to be a 1A center, but a good 1B that would probably thrive as a second line center. I'd rather give him a shot then sign an aging Richards or Thornton. They will get a lot more money then they are worth, not to mention they are on the tailend of their prime years.
Christensen isn't true top-6 talent though, at the moment. If he can play the way he did at the end of the season, he's a great stop-gap, but we aren't contending for anything without at least a 70 point center.

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06-19-2010, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cally Is Overrated View Post
Christensen isn't true top-6 talent though, at the moment. If he can play the way he did at the end of the season, he's a great stop-gap, but we aren't contending for anything without at least a 70 point center.
It doesn't matter where the points come from, though. If Gaborik puts up 40 goals/90points and so does Kovalchuk, it theoretically would be better then paying a first line center too much to put up 70 points. The Rangers need strong centers that are defensively responsible and are good a distributing the puck. Christiansen would be a fine stop-gag until Stepan gets a year seasoning in the AHL. Then either he or Anisimov could center the first line.

I think it would be more of a 1a 1b type situation line wise, with either line potentially being a #1 line (For 2011-12):

Dubinsky - Stepan - Gaborik
Kovalchuk - Anisimov - MZA/Callahan

If the Rangers do not intend on using Christiansen in the top six they should not waste the cap space on him.

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06-20-2010, 12:26 PM
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According to the Edmonton Journal, Burns could be had for a center.

Would you work a deal around Dubinksy and Burns?

Ribiero is also on the block. Good playmaking center. Any interest in them two?

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06-20-2010, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SI Ranger View Post
According to the Edmonton Journal, Burns could be had for a center.

Would you work a deal around Dubinksy and Burns?

Ribiero is also on the block. Good playmaking center. Any interest in them two?
Every day of the week. Burns is a monster.

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06-20-2010, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Cally Is Overrated View Post
Every day of the week. Burns is a monster.
Unfortunately, a monster with a head made of jello.

I don't touch Burns with his concussion history (two major concussions in the last 2 years - March of 2009 and then again in November of 2009). He was not the same player post-concussion.

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06-20-2010, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Unfortunately, a monster with a head made of jello.

I don't touch Burns with his concussion history (two major concussions in the last 2 years - March of 2009 and then again in November of 2009). He was not the same player post-concussion.
He looked fine at the end of the year. The risk is worth it. He'd be unbelievable with Staal.

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06-20-2010, 12:45 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Cally Is Overrated View Post
He looked fine at the end of the year. The risk is worth it. He'd be unbelievable with Staal.
Strongly disagree. He may return to form, but he was not the same player.

Not worth the risk, imo. And I was a big fan of Burns.

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06-20-2010, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SI Ranger View Post
According to the Edmonton Journal, Burns could be had for a center.

Would you work a deal around Dubinksy and Burns?

Ribiero is also on the block. Good playmaking center. Any interest in them two?
When I lived in Minnesota, I watched Burns emerge and I thought he was turning into be the next Ray Bourque. No kidding. Tremendous player.

Haven't watched him closely since the concussions and I'm no doctor but I would certainly investigate. Luv you Brandon, but if Burns is healthy and clear headed, I'd carry Dubinsky on my back to Minnesota to make this trade.

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06-20-2010, 12:51 PM
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Strongly disagree. He may return to form, but he was not the same player.

Not worth the risk, imo. And I was a big fan of Burns.
He played like 20 games since the concussion. He looked fine. He's going to be a star, franchise player. If we can get Burns for Dubinsky, he can take his hilarious faces elsewhere.

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Old
06-20-2010, 01:02 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Cally Is Overrated View Post
He played like 20 games since the concussion. He looked fine. He's going to be a star, franchise player. If we can get Burns for Dubinsky, he can take his hilarious faces elsewhere.
Okay, but then why is he available...?

After our experiences with both Lindros and Lafontaine on this team, I am very, very wary of concussions.

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06-20-2010, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Cally Is Overrated View Post
He played like 20 games since the concussion. He looked fine. He's going to be a star, franchise player. If we can get Burns for Dubinsky, he can take his hilarious faces elsewhere.
My worry is that Burns has regressed a bit. When he played in the 2008 WC's, people said he played himself on to this year's Olympic team. Concussions didn't help him, but I don't know if his confidence has been crushed a bit by all the shifting around he's done. Minnesota can't figure out if they want to play him at D or F. Dubi's been rising in his play, and I'd love to see one more year from him. Then again, Burns is only 25, and cold certainly develop quite a bit. I'd mull on it for a while, for sure, and I LOVE Dubi.

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