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Gazette - Questions Linger about Halak Trade

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Old
07-12-2010, 05:53 PM
  #176
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
Didn't return the call? You mean like they left a message on an answering machine or something?

Lots of un-named folks pipe up later and say stuff like gee whiz I would have given them way more for a player on the market. But talk is cheap, and they never say what it is they would have offered in return.

No GM names. No player names. How convenient

But if Pierre says it is so . . .
Yes, I'm striving to believe they are competent as well. After I get all the curse words out of my system from the Halak trade.

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07-12-2010, 08:14 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by ReVeuF View Post
Habs organization was and still is badly managed for years. Not bad enough to get a lottery pick but good enough to borderline make the playoffs year after year. Do not be blind with the last playoffs success, the Habs did not play well in most of the games.

Getting outshot most of the games like 2 for 1 is not the recipe to win the Stanley Cup (unless you have a hot goalie). The time in our zone compared to the time in their zone was very bad too.

And now Gauthier is thinking wrong if he is happy with the team right now... remember we lost to the Leafs in the last game to get the last spot in the playoffs...
The irony of that last game against the Leafs was that we totally dominated them but Halak **** the bed.

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07-12-2010, 08:35 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
That's interesting...

I also agree that for goalies, other abilities have to be considered much before the "frame" or the size : Stamina, reflexes, speed, flexibility, ability to play under pressure, etc.

"Frame" and "size" are overrated.
Price is better or the same in every categorie you just mentioned...

Also frame/size for a goalie is not overrated.

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Old
07-12-2010, 09:39 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
Just to add some fuel to the debate:
http://ruefrontenac.com/mleclerc/252...c-lnh-gardiens
I love it.

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Old
07-12-2010, 11:21 PM
  #180
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I think I want us to win more so that our own doom and gloom fans get pwned.

We just made it to the conference final (blah blah blah, "it was all Halak"). You'd think people would be happy that we've broken through that first wall, but no, still complaining. At least we're not Cleveland? ...too soon, too soon

Go Carey, go Scotty, go Poulie, go Pyatt, go everyone who gets regularly bashed. I'm very happy with the team, let it be October now!

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Old
07-12-2010, 11:33 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Firestar27 View Post
And you remind me of someone blindly following any move good or ba d made by this organisation. Halak was the best goalie available on the market.
just to put things in perspective, the market has changed. People don't realize what it takes to make the RIGHT deal. Gauthier is, rather than using the old tactics of GMing, realizing that, like the Hawks, you can only survive in this cap era by building with young, cheap talent. I'd love to hear what the other GM's allegedly offered. Of course, that information is not available, so moot point. As if they had NO IDEA Halak was on the market. All it takes is a phone call. Halak was the best goalie on the market (well, RFA, along with....yes...Carey Price). Last I checked, Nabokov is in Russia, Turco is playing backup to Nittymaki and the best UFA of allllll time still has no contract. It's a new age in the NHL. It's actually interesting to see GMs plan ahead. I think they've seen what happens when you don't play within your means. The Halak trade was a great one - for both teams. Our goalie controversy (if you had pitched this "problem" to me pre-Price+Halak, I would have gladly taken it on) is worse than what I understand of the Twilight camps for the vampire dude or the lycan. Team Edward!

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Old
07-12-2010, 11:44 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
Price is better or the same in every categorie you just mentioned...

Also frame/size for a goalie is not overrated.
every single one of them... yup yup yup...

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Old
07-13-2010, 12:05 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
Price is better or the same in every categorie you just mentioned...
Except for the one catagory that matters most; stopping pucks.

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07-13-2010, 12:15 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by maxpower2010 View Post
Except for the one catagory that matters most; stopping pucks.
Funny considering Price and Halak give up pretty much the same number of goals.
Maybe just maybe the reason Price loses is because the team scores more with Halak

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Old
07-13-2010, 12:18 AM
  #185
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people still care about goalie ? Come on .........halak/ price who cares if you have a good team up front ? I'm halak ''fan'' and I'm glad PG traded him because we got eller for him.

BTW no goalie worth more than 4M$. I think it's the biggest scam of all sport

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Old
07-13-2010, 01:06 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
Funny considering Price and Halak give up pretty much the same number of goals.
Funny because that's not what the stats show.

Unless by "pretty much" you mean the difference between elite save percentage and average save percentage.

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Old
07-13-2010, 02:05 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by maxpower2010 View Post
Funny because that's not what the stats show.

Unless by "pretty much" you mean the difference between elite save percentage and average save percentage.
Halak's career numbers : 101GP .919Sv %
Price: 134GP .912%
Whoping .007% difference.

Halak's career year: 45GP .924Sv%
Price's career year (rookie): 21GP .920Sv%
An even bigger .004% difference.

This year,
Halak: 45GP .924Sv% (Played 13Games without Markov)
Price: 41GP .912Sv% (Played 26Games without Markov)
.012% difference.
The sole presence of Markov would have brought these numbers up for Price a little more. They still would have been better for Halak because he was the better goalie overall this year, but the difference would have been much smaller for Sv %.

Price and Halak are two very good keepers. For cap issues, one had to be let go. It's done, it's finished, no more goalie controversy, now let's all shut up about it and move the Fack on already!

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Old
07-13-2010, 05:44 AM
  #188
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Pretty sure we will see a "Halak watch" post when season will begin, an up to date post to compare Price and Halak during the whole season...

Can't wait for the season to begin !!!

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Old
07-13-2010, 06:03 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
Just to add some fuel to the debate:
http://ruefrontenac.com/mleclerc/252...c-lnh-gardiens
Martin Leclerc deliberately fails to mention that Timmins drafted Halak. Talk about dishonest reporting. He starts his little survey in 2005. Man! I hate shoddy journalism and this reporter will distort the facts just to prove his point. Why doesn't he mention all the goalies that Timmins drafted

2003
Halak
Lindberg 6'

2004
Lacasse 6'2"

2005
Price 6'3" (not exactly a giant)

2008
Miisiaen 6'8"

2009
Simila 6'6"

Timmins picked 2 monster sized goalies out of a total of 6 and this ahole of a journalist distorts the facts to make it seem that Timmins has a hard on for oversized goalies. What a tool!

P.S. I forgot to mention Desjardins & Mayer who he did not draft but picked up as undrafted juniors. they're 6 & 6'1" respectively.


Last edited by Habs Icing: 07-13-2010 at 06:31 AM.
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Old
07-13-2010, 06:18 AM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
At .900, you are a backup goalie and you won't stay long in NHL.
At .910, you are a number 1 goalie.
At .920, you are top-5 in the league.
At .930 you are a Vezina trophy nominee.

.012 is all the difference in the world...
Even .007 is enough to make the difference between a number 1 and his backup.
.007 is approx 7 goals in 33 games: 3 or 4 more wins...
You should include PO in carreer year...

One last comment, you really think anyone will follow your "shut up".
Men, this is just starting.
Next season, when Halak will continue to play as a top-5... and bring the Blues in PO.
Meanwhile, Price will most likely improve...

This is just starting.
We should have a sticky for Halak-Price debates (at least for next year).
I already ran the number break downs in another thread and the results were...

Price = Halak vs playoff bound teams with Price actually having the higher save %
Halak > Price vs non playoff bound teams. This is where Price **** the bed and where his stats took a hit for some reason.
Price played 2/3's of the games Markov missed.
Halak received almost 3/4's of a goal per game more support.

Quote:
Games started vs playoff bound teams
Price 24 (1478 mins) Pulled once
Halak 19 (1111 mins) Pulled twice

Record
Price 8-13-3
Halak 9-8-2

Goals against
Price 64 (2.59GAA)
Halak 47 (2.53GAA)

Save %
Price .921 (807 SA)
Halak .919 (583 SA)

Goals for
Price 52 (2.11 per game average)
Halak 43 (2.32 per game average)

Overall goal support
Price 2.26
Halak 2.99

Losses when making 30 or more saves
Price 8
Halak 2

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Old
07-13-2010, 08:02 AM
  #191
uiCk
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I love it.
whats there to love exactly? the "Journalist" is accusing scouts of all over the league to scout goalies based on a "myth", and not the talents/skills of that goalie. Hes a fking moron if he thinks he "uncovered" the truth, and the actual Pro's have/had no clue.


Woa this article is jokes. (not because of what hes trying to say, but how he said it, and if you know 1 ounce of journalism/writting, you know this is a joke of an article)



IMO , sports org spend millions of dollars on all kind of tools to get better (Scouts, Stats, Advisers etc). Media spends a fraction of that. Most their info now a days comes from P Mag, who knows a couple of NHL dudes, and HFBoards. IMO Ive seen these same arguments/stats being used prior in the goalie debates, numerous of times. And like the people prior who seemed to know better then the pros, this guy is the same.


Last edited by uiCk: 07-13-2010 at 08:09 AM.
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Old
07-13-2010, 08:12 AM
  #192
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The only question that lingers for me is who Eller will thank during his Calder acceptance speech.

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Old
07-13-2010, 08:24 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
At .900, you are a backup goalie and you won't stay long in NHL.
At .910, you are a number 1 goalie.
At .920, you are top-5 in the league.
At .930 you are a Vezina trophy nominee.

.012 is all the difference in the world...
Even .007 is enough to make the difference between a number 1 and his backup.
.007 is approx 7 goals in 33 games: 3 or 4 more wins...
You should include PO in carreer year...

One last comment, you really think anyone will follow your "shut up".
Men, this is just starting.
Next season, when Halak will continue to play as a top-5... and bring the Blues in PO.
Meanwhile, Price will most likely improve...

This is just starting.
We should have a sticky for Halak-Price debates (at least for next year).
It will take 5 years before we really know how the whole Halak-Price-Eller-Plekanec thing has worked out.

Also, save percentage is a very good stat, but you have to take into consideration what kind of team you have playing in front of the goalie at the time.

Like pitchers in baseball, some years a team plays better in front of one goalie than another(better defensively and/or scoring more goals in support) and the GAA, SV% and W-L record will reflect this.

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Old
07-13-2010, 09:04 AM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
Martin Leclerc deliberately fails to mention that Timmins drafted Halak. Talk about dishonest reporting. He starts his little survey in 2005. Man! I hate shoddy journalism and this reporter will distort the facts just to prove his point. Why doesn't he mention all the goalies that Timmins drafted

2003
Halak
Lindberg 6'

2004
Lacasse 6'2"

2005
Price 6'3" (not exactly a giant)

2008
Miisiaen 6'8"

2009
Simila 6'6"

Timmins picked 2 monster sized goalies out of a total of 6 and this ahole of a journalist distorts the facts to make it seem that Timmins has a hard on for oversized goalies. What a tool!

P.S. I forgot to mention Desjardins & Mayer who he did not draft but picked up as undrafted juniors. they're 6 & 6'1" respectively.
Not to nitpick but Halak and Lindberg are both under 6'

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Old
07-13-2010, 09:12 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by ReVeuF View Post
Pretty sure we will see a "Halak watch" post when season will begin, an up to date post to compare Price and Halak during the whole season...

Can't wait for the season to begin !!!
haha If RDS was smart they'd start showing a lot more Blues games on the Habs' off nights. This thing is not going to go away unless Halak completely flames out (which eventually shut up the Huet & Garon fans after their trades).

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Old
07-13-2010, 09:19 AM
  #196
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Let's pretend that this situation where GMs did not get a call were true.

Which GM did not know that MTL was going to trade a goaltender? That would make them a pretty piss poor GM not to know the potential of it happening. If a team wanted one of these goaltenders it was in their interest to place a bid.

To me, that just sounds like either a GM who did not want Halak speaking to PM and putting out some PR so his fans do not think he did not fail at his job...or a GM that was asleep at the obvious switch, and is now trying to cover his mistake.

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Old
07-13-2010, 09:30 AM
  #197
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Nothing to see here folks, trade has been done for weeks.

Few points though
Why is halak turning the Blues into a stanley cup contender they are in the hardest division in hockey IMO, if anything they could do ****tier than last year as goaltending wasnt their problem.

Believe it or not but halak cant use 38" pads next year, and his chest protector will be a bit smaller too. That will have an effect on him. How about we give it atleast 20 games? I know this wont happen as using reason and common sense is a like finding unicorns around here.

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Old
07-13-2010, 09:31 AM
  #198
Des Louise
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Originally Posted by hotsauce514 View Post
people still care about goalie ? Come on .........halak/ price who cares if you have a good team up front ? I'm halak ''fan'' and I'm glad PG traded him because we got eller for him.

BTW no goalie worth more than 4M$. I think it's the biggest scam of all sport
So Dominic Hasek in his prime was all just a hoax really and is a product of the defense that was in front of him and he wouldn't be worth a max cap hit now ?


Last edited by Des Louise: 07-13-2010 at 10:11 AM.
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Old
07-13-2010, 09:33 AM
  #199
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Great! It's been so long since we've had a good ol' discussion about Halak and Price!

Perhaps we should, one day, come to realization that Halak is GONE and that you can't turn back the clock. Perhaps moving FORWARD instead of living in the past is the only option?

Well... I guess there's another option: Go cheer for the Blues!

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Old
07-13-2010, 09:34 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
So Dominic Hasek in his prime was all just a hoax really and is a product and he wouldn't be worth a max cap hit now ?
There are a few goalies worth more, but not a goalie compared to hasek with half a good season and a playoff run.

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