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Petr Klíma or Petr Nedved ?

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Old
01-17-2012, 02:07 AM
  #26
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Petr Nedved - underated throughout his career?

I always thought he was. Wasnt a player capable of leading a team offensively but he was an excellent supporting player who was always able to play in any teams top 6. Solid in faceoffs, big body, used it fairly well, great offensive vision, slick pass and always wish he would shoot more cause he had a great shot.

He finished his career hovering around .80PPG.

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01-17-2012, 02:12 AM
  #27
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HHOF skills. ECHL brain.

His only PPG season came while playing with Jags, Super Mario and Ronnie Franchise. Surprise, surprise.

Underachieved spectacularly.

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01-17-2012, 03:17 AM
  #28
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01-17-2012, 06:32 AM
  #29
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I remember us Canucks fans were really hyped on him. There was plenty of good buzz. Then he was disappointing, once too many times. People gave up on him. I can't recall exactly why, apart from some bonehead plays and character issues. Couldn't stand the heat? Had the basic tools to do much better.

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01-17-2012, 06:54 AM
  #30
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He lacked the mental toughness required to play in the NHL. He had sick wristshot and decent hockey sense, but other than that? Nothing special.

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01-17-2012, 12:16 PM
  #31
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Always liked Petr's game - and was surprised when he didn't get more out of his skill set.

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01-17-2012, 12:25 PM
  #32
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people often talk about how kovalev had the raw talent to be one of the all-time greats. while i think kovalev's talent is often overstated, i always thought that nedved also had all the ability to reach the heights that kovalev could have reached (arguably top 100 all-time if he gave it everything he had). in that sense, nedved is a little underrated historically.

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01-17-2012, 12:57 PM
  #33
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Part of the problem was he got involved with the wrong people while with the canucks and again in NY. The NHL had to get involved when it came out he was hanging around with "a bad element" in Vancouver and he was told to stay away from them

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01-17-2012, 04:27 PM
  #34
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Nedved was a fine talent who should have accomplished more than he did, but settled for being ‘good’ instead of ‘great’. With his hands and wristshot he should have scored 40 goals every year for a decade.

Just didn’t have the heart to be an elite player. A total Yashin-level mercenary who lost over two full years during the prime of his career to contract disputes. The defining moment of his career as a Canuck was asking for Wayne Gretzky’s stick/autograph after being upset by the Kings in 1993, in a series where Nedved completely no-showed.

Had one great season playing with Jagr/Francis/Lemieux in 1995-96 where he scored 99 points and 20 points in the playoffs. Other than that (and a motivated and outstanding 2000-01 season for the Rangers), his career was largely a disappointment – especially in the playoffs. 20 points in 52 games outside of that one good year.

It’s a testament to his talent that he can still dominate in the Czech league at age 41, but he should have been so much more. 717 points is not a spectacular total for a player of his ability who spent 17 years in the NHL.

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01-17-2012, 04:29 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
Nedved was a fine talent who should have accomplished more than he did, but settled for being ‘good’ instead of ‘great’. With his hands and wristshot he should have scored 40 goals every year for a decade.

Just didn’t have the heart to be an elite player. A total Yashin-level mercenary who lost over two full years during the prime of his career to contract disputes. The defining moment of his career as a Canuck was asking for Wayne Gretzky’s stick/autograph after being upset by the Kings in 1993, in a series where Nedved completely no-showed.

Had one great season playing with Jagr/Francis/Lemieux in 1995-96 where he scored 99 points and 20 points in the playoffs. Other than that (and a motivated and outstanding 2000-01 season for the Rangers), his career was largely a disappointment – especially in the playoffs. 20 points in 52 games outside of that one good year.

It’s a testament to his talent that he can still dominate in the Czech league at age 41, but he should have been so much more. 717 points is not a spectacular total for a player of his ability who spent 17 years in the NHL.
You could not possibly have put it more perfect than this. Bravo.

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01-17-2012, 04:58 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
Nedved was a fine talent who should have accomplished more than he did, but settled for being ‘good’ instead of ‘great’. With his hands and wristshot he should have scored 40 goals every year for a decade.

Just didn’t have the heart to be an elite player. A total Yashin-level mercenary who lost over two full years during the prime of his career to contract disputes. The defining moment of his career as a Canuck was asking for Wayne Gretzky’s stick/autograph after being upset by the Kings in 1993, in a series where Nedved completely no-showed.

Had one great season playing with Jagr/Francis/Lemieux in 1995-96 where he scored 99 points and 20 points in the playoffs. Other than that (and a motivated and outstanding 2000-01 season for the Rangers), his career was largely a disappointment – especially in the playoffs. 20 points in 52 games outside of that one good year.

It’s a testament to his talent that he can still dominate in the Czech league at age 41, but he should have been so much more. 717 points is not a spectacular total for a player of his ability who spent 17 years in the NHL.
one last resonant memory from nedved's career: after sather traded him to the oilers, when he gave a damn. scored 5 goals and 15 points in 16 games, as the oilers went 9-2-2-3 and came within three points of making the playoffs.

after the trade, the oilers got at least one point in his first 13 games and came back into the playoff picture in a big way. with the playoffs within reach, nedved fails to score in two of the final three games, both ending in regulation losses. the last game of the year, a must win to keep pace with a free-falling dallas team that had lost four straight, nedved's box score is 0 points, -3. it turns out they would have been eliminated anyway because dallas had a game in hand (which they won), but still, that was a must win and he came up short. BUT-- the second last game of the year, against that very same dallas team, nedved gets two assists and leads his team to a 3-1 victory in what was a four point game.

that 16 game run was nedved's career in a nutshell; he showed you so much promise, gave you glimpses of true greatness, brought you so close to putting it all together for good, then doesn't.

interestingly, the same year sather traded kovalev to the habs and alex uncharacteristically tore it up in the playoffs, playing with rarely seen heart (except, of course, for the infamous fake injury against boston).

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01-17-2012, 05:38 PM
  #37
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Petr Nedved was a very talented player and the Canucks were right to draft him 2nd overall in 1990. A lot of people seem to give the four teams (Quebec, Vancouver, Detroit, Philadelphia) who picked ahead of Pittsburgh a lot of flak for passing on Jarmoir Jagr but hindsight is always 20/20. At the time, Nedved was a talented prospect with what many considered "can't miss" potential. He also was a very North American-friendly Czech, having played for the Seattle Thunderbirds in the WHL and being fluent in English. The same could not be said about Jagr, who couldn't speak any English and was still playing in Kladno.

The Canucks' selection of Nedved was very well-received in Vancouver (where the draft was actually held). However, he struggled to adjust to the NHL game in his first two seasons and was constantly criticized for his indifferent play. He finally broke out in 1992-93, but followed it up by sitting out during a petty contract dispute in 1994. This soured a lot of people on him and it did Neved little good as he essentially sat out two prime years of his career (missing most of 1993-94 and the lock-out year of 1994-95).

I remember recently Vancouver radio was talking about him on his 40th birthday and Tony Gallagher told a story where Nedved's agent even gave up on him after some time, claiming he basically didn't care about his profession.

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01-17-2012, 05:52 PM
  #38
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Just to be clear: the "lost years" that Nedved missed were almost the entire 93-94 season due to the contract dispute (went late in the season to St. Louis where he played the final 19 games) and the entire 97-98 season.

He played 46 out of 48 games during the lockout-shortened 94-95 season for NYR.

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01-17-2012, 06:38 PM
  #39
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Just to be clear: the "lost years" that Nedved missed were almost the entire 93-94 season due to the contract dispute (went late in the season to St. Louis where he played the final 19 games) and the entire 97-98 season.

He played 46 out of 48 games during the lockout-shortened 94-95 season for NYR.
Oh my bad...missing most of 1993-94 did neither him nor the Canucks any good during the regular season.

He moves to St. Louis where they get swept in the first round by Dallas. Vancouver goes on a run to the Cup final. Although you could say that run may never have happened had Nedved not been dealt.

Still...I remember he attended Game 6 of the final in Vancouver and the fans chanted "THANK YOU PETR!" which basically was saying thanks for getting out of town for Brown, Hedican, and Lafayette.

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01-17-2012, 06:55 PM
  #40
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I never met Nedved, but he used to play street hockey with my brother's friends... Apparently, Nedved used to say "I'll be Gretzky" playing street hockey, as a NHL drafted player... And he'd play street hockey, as if he was Wayne Gretzky... He'd get in character, and pretend that he was Wayne Gretzky... If he grew up as he aged, and was committed to being the best player he could, my opinion is that he would have been one of the greats amongst his peers... Still, he was a really good player, IMO... but just a shadow of his street hockey alter ego...

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01-17-2012, 07:21 PM
  #41
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Had a really bad knack for holding out much like Yashin. You never want to be compared to Yashin for anything. I thought he had good size and like others have said a laser of a wrist shot. He was another disapointment when it came to putting it all together. And the Nucks could have gotten Jagr instead!

Scored one of the most famous goals in NHL history though, of course with his wrist shot. Game #4 of the 1996 series between Washington/Pittsburgh was one for the ages. Last minute of the 4th overtime.

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01-17-2012, 07:36 PM
  #42
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The guy was uber talented but he had attitude problems. Aside from that big 99 point season his point totals where average when you consider he was a #2 pick.

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01-17-2012, 11:00 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
Nedved was a fine talent who should have accomplished more than he did, but settled for being ‘good’ instead of ‘great’. With his hands and wristshot he should have scored 40 goals every year for a decade.

Just didn’t have the heart to be an elite player. A total Yashin-level mercenary who lost over two full years during the prime of his career to contract disputes. The defining moment of his career as a Canuck was asking for Wayne Gretzky’s stick/autograph after being upset by the Kings in 1993, in a series where Nedved completely no-showed.

Had one great season playing with Jagr/Francis/Lemieux in 1995-96 where he scored 99 points and 20 points in the playoffs. Other than that (and a motivated and outstanding 2000-01 season for the Rangers), his career was largely a disappointment – especially in the playoffs. 20 points in 52 games outside of that one good year.

It’s a testament to his talent that he can still dominate in the Czech league at age 41, but he should have been so much more. 717 points is not a spectacular total for a player of his ability who spent 17 years in the NHL.
In the end the lack of heart and the autograph moment summed up his career which was quite surprising in that he defected as a teenager and had an excellent draft season in Seattle.

But like many Canuck draft picks before him, the transition to pro didn't go as was expected or could have been.

A world class talent but in a sense he had a childlike attitude about him that held back what could have been.

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Petr Nedved was a very talented player and the Canucks were right to draft him 2nd overall in 1990. A lot of people seem to give the four teams (Quebec, Vancouver, Detroit, Philadelphia) who picked ahead of Pittsburgh a lot of flak for passing on Jarmoir Jagr but hindsight is always 20/20. At the time, Nedved was a talented prospect with what many considered "can't miss" potential. He also was a very North American-friendly Czech, having played for the Seattle Thunderbirds in the WHL and being fluent in English. The same could not be said about Jagr, who couldn't speak any English and was still playing in Kladno.

The Canucks' selection of Nedved was very well-received in Vancouver (where the draft was actually held). However, he struggled to adjust to the NHL game in his first two seasons and was constantly criticized for his indifferent play. He finally broke out in 1992-93, but followed it up by sitting out during a petty contract dispute in 1994. This soured a lot of people on him and it did Neved little good as he essentially sat out two prime years of his career (missing most of 1993-94 and the lock-out year of 1994-95).

I remember recently Vancouver radio was talking about him on his 40th birthday and Tony Gallagher told a story where Nedved's agent even gave up on him after some time, claiming he basically didn't care about his profession.
What you say is very true and I always wonder how Nedved and Jagr would ahve developed in they had been picked by Pittsburgh and Vancouver respectively. Pittsburgh really nurtured Jagr and brought in Hrdina to tutor him and the Canucks weren't the organization that they are now.

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01-17-2012, 11:33 PM
  #44
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When I think Nedved I always think Robert Lang. Two big Czech forwards, very similar stat lines for their NHL careers. Both good with glimpses of very good but finding a way to frustrate observers as well.

But hey at least Nedved can claim the oddity of having played for both Canada and the Czech Republic in major hockey tournaments.

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01-17-2012, 11:57 PM
  #45
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You never want to be compared to Yashin for anything.
You mean, you never want to be compared to Yashin for heart and attitude.... any other part of his game, moat nhlers would love to be compared to him.

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10-06-2012, 05:57 PM
  #46
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watched both of these guys play extensively... Klima was without a doubt a more skilled player both with hands and skating.. I saw Klima several times skate around the NHL's best defenseman, Bourque, Coffey et al, like a turnstile and also make some of the league's best goaltenders look silly.. He had extremely deceptive speed and a great shot. The problem with Klima was that he was uncoachable and lazy and only played when he wanted to.. He could have been an all star every year with Detroit and Edmonton..

Nedved had great wheels, and a big body that he never used... Messier didnt like him and thought he was a big wuss... He had a lot of talent as well, but he didn't have the insane pure skill that Klima had..

I asked Grant Fuhr one time about Klima.. He said that Klima, when he came to the rink to play and not be a lazy was the best player on the ice many times...

Klima was the better player and I am a huge Rangers fan that watched Nedved for many years..

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10-06-2012, 09:31 PM
  #47
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Nedved. No question. He was a waste of talent but Klima was just a step or two below that.

Also, anyone ever feel like Petr Nedved looked a lot like Trevor Linden? Both 6'3" centermen, drafted by the Canucks, one was a floating underachiever and the other a heart and soul leader. The key thing? They looked the same.




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10-06-2012, 10:44 PM
  #48
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watched both of these guys play extensively... Klima was without a doubt a more skilled player both with hands and skating.. I saw Klima several times skate around the NHL's best defenseman, Bourque, Coffey et al, like a turnstile and also make some of the league's best goaltenders look silly.. He had extremely deceptive speed and a great shot. The problem with Klima was that he was uncoachable and lazy and only played when he wanted to.. He could have been an all star every year with Detroit and Edmonton..

Nedved had great wheels, and a big body that he never used... Messier didnt like him and thought he was a big wuss... He had a lot of talent as well, but he didn't have the insane pure skill that Klima had..

I asked Grant Fuhr one time about Klima.. He said that Klima, when he came to the rink to play and not be a lazy was the best player on the ice many times...

Klima was the better player and I am a huge Rangers fan that watched Nedved for many years..
Wow, epic bump.

I'll say again exactly what I said two years ago. You can make an argument that Klima was a more talented player than Nedved, but there is absolutely zero argument that Klima was a better player.

Nedved put up miles better offensive totals while being a superior defensive player and playing a more important position. One guy was a 70-point center who was average defensively and the other a 50-point winger who was ghastly defensively.

And like I said before, I still don't think Nedved was necessarily an under-achiever, when he actually played. He was a mercenary who wasted 3 years of career shooting himself in the foot with idiotic holdouts, but when he played he was a reasonably hard worker who mostly realized his potential. Soft-ish? Sure, especially early in his career. But I really don't believe he had the talent to be substantially more than what he was.

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10-07-2012, 02:50 AM
  #49
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See, I just don't see Nedved as being 'enigmatic'. To me, this is a stigma that gets attached to him because of off-ice stuff rather than how he actually played.

He had a couple poor seasons in his career (1994-95 and 2001-02) but he was generally a solid 70-point center who was reasonably decent defensively. He had one big season in Pittsburgh that was a product of his linemates, but generally he wasn't a guy who you'd watch and think was really underachieving. Wouldn't alternate terrific and brutal performances the way Malakhov and Kovalev did.

To be honest, he was a shining light on those awful Ranger teams more than anything, and led them in scoring 3 times in 4 years.

I think we generally saw exactly how good Nedved was and he played at that level for quite a long time. He just should have had 2 1/2 more years of high-level play than he did.
Agreed. He was a very good second line center. He may have had the potential to be a first liner, but that may have just been projection as well. I'd rather build a second line around Nedved, so I vote him.

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10-07-2012, 10:37 AM
  #50
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I am quite surprised at the flack Neved is getting in this thread. He pisses all over Petr Klima and this is one of those times where it is not even close.

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