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NYI-FLA offer

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Old
05-24-2004, 03:40 PM
  #1
DarkHorse
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NYI-FLA Proposal

Mike Peca

for

Stephen Weiss, Andreas Lilja, Denis Shvidki


Keenan gets a guy in his mold to lead his young team and take the pressure off Jokinen.

Milbury gets a true goal scorer with a future in the middle, size on the blueline and a project.


Last edited by DarkHorse: 05-24-2004 at 03:41 PM. Reason: change title
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05-24-2004, 03:46 PM
  #2
ErnestoGuevara
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At 1,2mil I don't think anyone would be interested in Shvidki...... Replace Shvidki by say Kolnik or Morrissett ro even a pick and the Isles would probably do it.

But why would Florida do that???? They are a young team and wouldn't be looking to add salary. They already have a great leader and two-way center in Jokinen and Horton has the potential to be liek Peca but probably even better offensivly...

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05-24-2004, 03:49 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnestoGuevara
Why would Florida do that?
Two words: Mike Keenan

I know he has a contract until 2007, but he's guaranteed to burn out WAY before that. He's on a short fuse, and needs results quick (how else to explain Dudley's firing?). Best way to do that is to import vets that know how to win.

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05-24-2004, 03:49 PM
  #4
Darth Milbury
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Shvidki and Lija are basically throw-ins in this deal, to balance the salary out.

Anyway, I doubt FLA will go in this direction. Weiss is a very strong prospect, and Peca is not going to be an asset to FLA in the longterm.

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05-24-2004, 03:51 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Weiss is a very strong prospect, and Peca is not going to be an asset to FLA in the longterm.
Keenan cannot work with Weiss. He's already burnt that bridge.
And like I said above, Keenan isn't going to be an asset to FLA in the longterm either.

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05-24-2004, 03:55 PM
  #6
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Um we don't even know if Keenan is the GM, it's jsut speculation. I wouldn't do this if I was Florida.

 
Old
05-24-2004, 03:56 PM
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How about we wait for him to be officially named GM first!

***

If he were to become GM, I'm guessing Keenan might eat that offer up, and the Isles would unload $$$. But....


Can the Panthers afford Peca? From NYI's perspective, personally have no interest whatsoever in adding yet another enigmatic Russian to NYI's roster (Shvidki has proven nothing in the NHL to boot). And while Weiss is nice , Isles don't need another center; that's why one may be expendable at this point.

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05-24-2004, 04:00 PM
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This would be a huge overpayment by the Panthers. Even a Weiss for Peca straight up trade is very much in the Islanders favor.... I don't see why Florida would want to do this

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05-24-2004, 04:04 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRS
I don't see why Florida would want to do this
I really don't want to make a personal attack, because this isn't about you, but why, when several reasons for a deal are laid out (Keenan's shortterm plans, Florida's need for a vet, Keenan's relationship with Weiss, etc...) someone says "I don't see why ____ would do this."

Look up! You may not agree with the deal, but there are reasons why it would happen. Matteau trades happen.


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05-24-2004, 04:06 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRS
This would be a huge overpayment by the Panthers. Even a Weiss for Peca straight up trade is very much in the Islanders favor.... I don't see why Florida would want to do this
Ahhh, the infactuation with youth continues. Weiss is a solid talent, but let's not go overboard. Even teams with shiny young UNPROVEN NHL players benefit from the presence of crusty old vets (Peca is age 30 ). Peca is certainly a better fit on a contender, but get away from his offensive stats and his presence on the right team would be enormous. Keenan would know that...clearly moreso than some here.

Weiss for Peca is "overpayment" like Pyatt and Connelly were overpayment. That is, he isn't.

***

Darkhorse, I was with you until you compare Peca to Matteau. C'mon!


Last edited by Trottier: 05-24-2004 at 04:11 PM.
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05-24-2004, 04:06 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
How about we wait for him to be officially named GM first!

***

If he were to become GM, I'm guessing Keenan might eat that offer up, and the Isles would unload $$$. But....


Can the Panthers afford Peca? From NYI's perspective, personally have no interest whatsoever in adding yet another enigmatic Russian to NYI's roster (Shvidki has proven nothing in the NHL to boot). And while Weiss is nice , Isles don't need another center; that's why one may be expendable at this point.
Isn't Shvidki Ukrainian????

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05-24-2004, 04:08 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnestoGuevara
At 1,2mil I don't think anyone would be interested in Shvidki...... Replace Shvidki by say Kolnik or Morrissett ro even a pick and the Isles would probably do it.

But why would Florida do that???? They are a young team and wouldn't be looking to add salary. They already have a great leader and two-way center in Jokinen and Horton has the potential to be liek Peca but probably even better offensivly...

I'm sure there was a report out of FL, that the Panthers will have $10m to spend on 2 dmen and a physical foward.

I think they'd prefer a younger,cheaper forward then Peca.

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05-24-2004, 04:08 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnestoGuevara
Isn't Shvidki Ukrainian????
And to think: I actually aced geography class way back when! :lol

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05-24-2004, 04:10 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Weiss for Peca is "overpayment" like Pyatt and Connelly were overpayment. .
I agree with both parts of this statement.

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05-24-2004, 04:13 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I agree with both parts of this statement.
I know you do. Your opinion of trades and players is based significantly on DOB and $$$. Mine is based on production (team and player).

Adding: that is not meant to be confrontational. Just differing preferences. Sometimes those younger players develop (Bertuzzi, Mezei, to cite a couple of NYI boffo trade examples.) Often times, they don't. Likewise, sometimes vets flame out (e.g., Oates in Philly). Other times, they have major positive effects on previously losing teams, on the ice and the lockeroom, e.g., Andreychuk.


Last edited by Trottier: 05-24-2004 at 04:41 PM.
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Old
05-24-2004, 04:13 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Darkhorse, I was with you until you compare Peca to Matteau. C'mon!
No comparison intended.
I just meant that Keenan goes after what he wants, no matter the logistics.

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05-24-2004, 04:14 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Ahhh, the infactuation with youth continues. Weiss is a solid talent, but let's not go overboard. Even teams with shiny young UNPROVEN NHL players benefit from the presence of crusty old vets (Peca is age 30 ). Peca is certainly a better fit on a contender, but get away from his offensive stats and his presence on the right team would be enormous. Keenan would know that...clearly moreso than some here.

Weiss for Peca is "overpayment" like Pyatt and Connelly were overpayment. That is, he isn't.

Trots when the isles were shopping Parrish and Peca 2 yrs ago and again last winter,the Panthers were pursuing Parrish.I think they want a gritty scorer and Peca's who'll come up with 11-20 goals a yr, is not a scorer.

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05-24-2004, 04:16 PM
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Hell the Panthers can give Weimer a 3 million dollar contract and I don't think the Wild will bite. Why give up Weiss for Peca when you can have Weimer instead...LOL KIDDING!

 
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05-24-2004, 04:21 PM
  #19
ErnestoGuevara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
I really don't want to make a personal attack, because this isn't about you, but why, when several reasons for a deal are laid out (Keenan's shortterm plans, Florida's need for a vet, Keenan's relationship with Weiss, etc...) someone says "I don't see why ____ would do this."

Look up! You may not agree with the deal, but there are reasons why it would happen. Matteau trades happen.


Florida's need for a vet??????? I disagree with you here, specialy not a veteran centerman. Didn't they traded one jsut at the trade deadline (Kozlov). Not comparing Peca with Kozlov here but they moved Kozlov (who also played on the wing) to give more icetime to the young kids. Jokinen is the obvious #1 center and Horton/Weiss will probably be #2. Florida's need for a vet will come around the trade deadline IF they are contending for a playoff spot and they will be able to get some veterans without giving up Weiss.

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05-24-2004, 04:24 PM
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DarkHorse
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I'm looking at this as Keenan's team.
He's never been patient with youth.

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05-24-2004, 04:25 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
Hell the Panthers can give Weimer a 3 million dollar contract and I don't think the Wild will bite. Why give up Weiss for Peca when you can have Weimer instead...LOL KIDDING!

Is this the same FL team,with Keenan as coach that traded Weimer?

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05-24-2004, 04:26 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW
Trots when the isles were shopping Parrish and Peca 2 yrs ago and again last winter,the Panthers were pursuing Parrish.I think they want a gritty scorer and Peca's who'll come up with 11-20 goals a yr, is not a scorer.
No doubt they need help on the wings. Assuming they are not on a five-year plan for winning, however , they would benefit from a veteran like Peca, much like NYI did in 2001. Beyond Jokinen, they possess little NHL experience at center: Weiss, Nedorost and Horton (if either of those two are not on the wing), Taticek in the pipeline. Ritchie is a non-entity and Cullen, a RFA, is rumored to not even be tendered.

So Peca could be a superb addition for them, IMO, separate from the need you cite on wing. But the Peca $$$ issue is a fair consideration.

This deal won't happen, but be assured that Keenan or no Kennan, the Panthers recognize that in order to be a playoff team, they need to balance their roster by adding some established NHL talent, as they have enough of a kiddie corp already. (They started doing so last year with the additions of Odelein and Messier; more is required, in more prominent roles.)


Last edited by Trottier: 05-24-2004 at 04:43 PM.
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Old
05-24-2004, 04:57 PM
  #23
Darth Milbury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
I know you do. Your opinion of trades and players is based significantly on DOB and $$$. Mine is based on production (team and player).

Adding: that is not meant to be confrontational. Just differing preferences. Sometimes those younger players develop (Bertuzzi, Mezei, to cite a couple of NYI boffo trade examples.) Often times, they don't. Likewise, sometimes vets flame out (e.g., Oates in Philly). Other times, they have major positive effects on previously losing teams, on the ice and the lockeroom, e.g., Andreychuk.

But, haven't you learned anything from this year's playoffs? The team that tried to trade away all its youth for established vets flamed out in rather pathetic fashion on the first round. The teams that built with youth are in the finals.

Yeah, adding a vet now and then is a smart move to make. And, that is why teams like Tampa are smart enough to make a good signing or strategic trade to their advantage. What those teams do not do, however, is trade away their core young players for aging vets. The Isles wiped out their young core in those moves and, as a result, will be mediocre for a few more years, and then go into decline when players start leaving via UFA (at which time, our GM will finally get fired).

Patience, shrewd drafting, development of younger castoffs from other organizations, and strategic signings of vet character guys, are the the way you build a team. Moving Weiss would be a dumb move for FLA, just like moving Pyatt et al was dumb for us. YEah, Pyatt did not develop. But, that doesn't make the orginal logic any less flawed.

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Old
05-24-2004, 05:16 PM
  #24
KH1
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This deal makes little sense for either team. Shvidiki and Lilja are add-ons to balance out the salary, but the Islanders won't trade Peca unless they can save some serious $$$.

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Old
05-25-2004, 04:11 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse
I really don't want to make a personal attack, because this isn't about you, but why, when several reasons for a deal are laid out (Keenan's shortterm plans, Florida's need for a vet, Keenan's relationship with Weiss, etc...) someone says "I don't see why ____ would do this."

Look up! You may not agree with the deal, but there are reasons why it would happen. Matteau trades happen.


b'c all those reasons are is just your speculation, they aren't factual reasons. he was saying he doesn't see it the same as you, and those reasons don't seem viable enough to warrant doing on florida's part

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