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Prospect Poll Numba 7!

View Poll Results: Prospects!
Colby Cohen, Defense, #45 Overall 2007 17 28.33%
Tyson Barrie, Defense, #64 Overall 2009 19 31.67%
Michael Bournival, Left Wing, #71 Overall 2010 0 0%
Jonas Holos, Defense, #170 Overall 2005 22 36.67%
Joel Chouinard, Defense, #164 Overall 2008 0 0%
Mark Olver, Center, #140 Overall 2008 0 0%
Sami Aittokallio, Goaltender, #107 Overall 2010 1 1.67%
Troy Rutkowski, Defense, #137 Overall 2010 1 1.67%
Stephen Silas, Defense, #95 Overall 2010 0 0%
Brandon Maxwell, Goaltender, # 154 Overall 2009 0 0%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-14-2010, 12:32 PM
  #26
Bubba Thudd
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IRT Kschey:

I looked around in the FAQs, but couldn't find any exact statement saying how long you'll have to wait. I would bet it's in there, though, just that I didn't find it. I'd think someone here has that factoid memorized... anyone? Bueller?

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07-14-2010, 12:33 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HishonHishoff View Post
Man what do you guys see in Barrie?

I see him as Cumiskey without the speed....maybe I'm missing something.
Size queen.

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07-14-2010, 12:34 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Pure View Post
Size queen.
Is that Size Queen, or is it Speed Queen?

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07-14-2010, 12:41 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
Is that Size Queen, or is it Speed Queen?
Definitely Size. Other than size and the role they play (and they came from the same junior team), Barrie is nothing like Cumiskey.

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07-14-2010, 12:57 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
No. Most would agree that, as far as competition goes SEL > AHL. In fact the leagues would probably rank:

1. NHL
2. KHL
3. SEL
4. AHL
5. CHL

Besides, Holos has proven more than Cohen already. When playing in the olympics he went up against the best players of the world for nearly 30min. Cohen has yet to prove himself in a bigger stage and elite competition.


Besides on top of this argument:

- Holos led the entire olympics with average time on ice
- He was 2nd on his team for points in SEL last season
- Was 2nd on his team for points again (SEL) in 08/09 finishing 1st in his team for goals and rounding around the top 10 for goals

Holos is just more proven and IMHO, has higher overall potential than Cohen and Barrie. Maybe not offensively but overall play.
I would argue AHL as 2nd best league in the world and I know there are GM's who would say the same. But there is really no basis for the argument as the teams would never play each other.

Cohen put up monster numbers his last 2 years at BU also. He scored the OT goal as we all know, so he has proved himself the best he can so far. The NCAA isn't the best of leagues but surely isn't a pushover league. I know Cohen has a blasting shot that we can really use on our pp. I still don't know what Holos can do other than log ice time?

Still I'm not getting it, he played so much because of how poor Norway is. I will agree he is more NHL ready than Cohen, but neither one in my mind is ready now. I think Holos will require a year or two in the AHL. I guess we will have a better idea when they all play together with LE this year.

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07-14-2010, 01:16 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ColAvsFan View Post
I would argue AHL as 2nd best league in the world and I know there are GM's who would say the same. But there is really no basis for the argument as the teams would never play each other.
a. You think the AHL has better talent than Radulov, Yashin, Jagr, Zherdev (last season) Zubov, etc.? You're talking about players who were legit, not fringe, NHLers vs. players a league whose majority would be lucky to be a call up? The KHL produced/has 60 Olympic players; yes its easy to make some teams than others but the fact remains that the level of talent is much higher in the KHL.

b. Do you have a link or support to your claims about GMs saying the same? I know some GMs who might say that (Burke) and I know some GMs who aren't happy with development of other leagues (Flames: Blacklund/SEL) but I also know some that are (Oilers:Omark/KHL).

Quote:
Cohen put up monster numbers his last 2 years at BU also. He scored the OT goal as we all know, so he has proved himself the best he can so far.
I never said he didn't. I am just suggesting that the numbers Holos put in SEL > NCAA. Unless the NCAA > SEL

Quote:
The NCAA isn't the best of leagues but surely isn't a pushover league. I know Cohen has a blasting shot that we can really use on our pp. I still don't know what Holos can do other than log ice time?
So, you'd rather have a player that can blast a shot that can be used on the PP over a player who can play in almost every situation and be a mule?

Quote:
Still I'm not getting it, he played so much because of how poor Norway is. I will agree he is more NHL ready than Cohen, but neither one in my mind is ready now. I think Holos will require a year or two in the AHL. I guess we will have a better idea when they all play together with LE this year.
Regardless of how weak the team is, its impressive enough that he was able to log that type of minutes and was successful (key word) in the tournament as the team's no. 1 dman. If he sucked in the tournment you wouldn't hear any arguments bu he didn't!

We'll agree to disagree but I do think Holos needs more development seasoning tho wouldn't be shocked if he made the team.

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07-14-2010, 01:16 PM
  #32
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Man, I wish our AHL team was in the Springs instead of Cleveland.

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07-14-2010, 01:41 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
Besides, Holos has proven more than Cohen already. When playing in the olympics he went up against the best players of the world for nearly 30min. Cohen has yet to prove himself in a bigger stage and elite competition.
Doesn't mean he's proved more. Norway was horrible, and pretty much any of the Avs defensive prospects would have been given huge ice time had they been Norwegian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
Besides on top of this argument:

- Holos led the entire olympics with average time on ice
- He was 2nd on his team for points in SEL last season
- Was 2nd on his team for points again (SEL) in 08/09 finishing 1st in his team for goals and rounding around the top 10 for goals


Holos is just more proven and IMHO, has higher overall potential than Cohen and Barrie. Maybe not offensively but overall play.
What?

2008-2009: 8 goals, 16 pts
2009-2010: 1 goal, 14 pts

Playing in the SEL isn't some great accomplishment that is grounds to say one prospect is better than another. It's more competitive than the NCAA, sure, but it's still a wash-up league where the best players are guys like Rickard Wallin (2 goals in 60 NHL games in 2010) and Jan Hlavac.

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07-14-2010, 02:03 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by ColAvsFan View Post
I would argue AHL as 2nd best league in the world and I know there are GM's who would say the same. But there is really no basis for the argument as the teams would never play each other.

Cohen put up monster numbers his last 2 years at BU also. He scored the OT goal as we all know, so he has proved himself the best he can so far. The NCAA isn't the best of leagues but surely isn't a pushover league. I know Cohen has a blasting shot that we can really use on our pp. I still don't know what Holos can do other than log ice time?

Still I'm not getting it, he played so much because of how poor Norway is. I will agree he is more NHL ready than Cohen, but neither one in my mind is ready now. I think Holos will require a year or two in the AHL. I guess we will have a better idea when they all play together with LE this year.
Funniest thing I have heard in a while. Thanks for the laugh.

Have you ever watched a KHL game?

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07-14-2010, 05:08 PM
  #35
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Doesn't mean he's proved more. Norway was horrible, and pretty much any of the Avs defensive prospects would have been given huge ice time had they been Norwegian.
Its not about making the team. Its about the fact that Holos played solid, not anything mind blowing but facing the best team in the world will do that to you.

Is Holos better than Shattenkirk because of this? No, I am sure Shattenkirk and Elliot would have done well in the same position Holos was in. Do I think the same for Cohen and Barrie? No.

Holos is the best defensive prospect available from the selections, I am not arguing that he is the best defensive prospect we have.

Also, just cause I know you don't give up easily and assume you'll come back with "what makes Shattenkirk/Elliot better than Holos if both play in the same league as Cohen/Barrie"

Potential. I see both Shattenkirk and Elliot being top paring potential; Holos doesn't have as high potential as them but he does have more potential than Cohen/Barrie and he's proven more than them at the current stage of their career for me to choose him over the other two.

Quote:
What?

2008-2009: 8 goals, 16 pts
2009-2010: 1 goal, 14 pts
Sorry, I meant 2nd as a Dman not 2nd overall! My mistake.

Quote:
Playing in the SEL isn't some great accomplishment that is grounds to say one prospect is better than another.
Yep; its not. But it is grounds to say one prospect has faced a higher level of competition.

Quote:
It's more competitive than the NCAA, sure, but it's still a wash-up league where the best players are guys like Rickard Wallin (2 goals in 60 NHL games in 2010) and Jan Hlavac.
Lol. Yea, the AHL is also more competitive than the NCAA but it's still a wash-up league where the best players are guys like TJ Hensick and Jason Krog.

NHL > KHL > SEL > AHL > CHL >= NCAA

Every league has some level of wash-up scrub (NHL has Foote and Sydor before retirement, now Modano, etc.) I am not sure what you were trying to argue here.

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07-14-2010, 05:28 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
Its not about making the team. Its about the fact that Holos played solid, not anything mind blowing but facing the best team in the world will do that to you.

Is Holos better than Shattenkirk because of this? No, I am sure Shattenkirk and Elliot would have done well in the same position Holos was in. Do I think the same for Cohen and Barrie? No.

Holos is the best defensive prospect available from the selections, I am not arguing that he is the best defensive prospect we have.

Also, just cause I know you don't give up easily and assume you'll come back with "what makes Shattenkirk/Elliot better than Holos if both play in the same league as Cohen/Barrie"


Potential. I see both Shattenkirk and Elliot being top paring potential; Holos doesn't have as high potential as them but he does have more potential than Cohen/Barrie and he's proven more than them at the current stage of their career for me to choose him over the other two.
I didn't question your thinking of Holos being the better prospect, I questioned the "proved more" statement. Not looking bad in the Olympics when his team was lit up against any kind of quality competition isn't really proof of much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
Lol. Yea, the AHL is also more competitive than the NCAA but it's still a wash-up league where the best players are guys like TJ Hensick and Jason Krog.

NHL > KHL > SEL > AHL > CHL >= NCAA

Every league has some level of wash-up scrub (NHL has Foote and Sydor before retirement, now Modano, etc.) I am not sure what you were trying to argue here.
What I'm trying to point out is your position seemed to hinge on the league Holos played in, and I'm saying it's not that good of a league. None of the prospects have really proven squat other than decent play in leagues not named the NHL.

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07-14-2010, 05:32 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
I didn't question your thinking of Holos being the better prospect, I questioned the "proved more" statement. Not looking bad in the Olympics when his team was lit up against any kind of competition isn't really proof of much.
Hey leading the olympics in average time, - 1, and 1 assist isn't bad. I am just saying its better proof.

Quote:
What I'm trying to point out is your position seemed to hinge on the league Holos played in, and I'm saying it's not that good of a league. None of the prospects have really proven squat other than decent play in leagues not named the NHL.
Yes; my argument is based on that. Neither has proven much but one has faced a better competition and that's why I brought SEL up since its the best distinction between the two.

Either way I wouldn't be surprised if none of Holos, Shattenkirk, Gaunce and Cohen didn't make the team and next season when all play for the AHL should give a better benchmark.

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07-14-2010, 05:34 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColAvsFan View Post
I would argue AHL as 2nd best league in the world and I know there are GM's who would say the same.
Milbury? Sather? C'mon I'm dyin to know...

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07-14-2010, 05:37 PM
  #39
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Tyson Barrie for me. Much higher potential than Cohen/Holos, just my opinion.

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07-14-2010, 06:48 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
a. You think the AHL has better talent than Radulov, Yashin, Jagr, Zherdev (last season) Zubov, etc.? You're talking about players who were legit, not fringe, NHLers vs. players a league whose majority would be lucky to be a call up? The KHL produced/has 60 Olympic players; yes its easy to make some teams than others but the fact remains that the level of talent is much higher in the KHL.

b. Do you have a link or support to your claims about GMs saying the same? I know some GMs who might say that (Burke) and I know some GMs who aren't happy with development of other leagues (Flames: Blacklund/SEL) but I also know some that are (Oilers:Omark/KHL).

So, you'd rather have a player that can blast a shot that can be used on the PP over a player who can play in almost every situation and be a mule?
I have no link but George McPhee said it when asked about sending Alzner down to the AHL. I mean AHL has it's player(mostly changing, but now Carlson, Couture until they are NHLers) and KHL has it's players(mostly washed up players or failed NHLers). The Hershey bears could beat any KHL team on any given day imo. The KHL has more skill, I would never argue that but imo the AHL is better.

What i meant by that was I know Cohen has a bomb from the point what skills does Holos have? The only argument I am hearing is he can log a ton of minutes.

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07-14-2010, 07:19 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ColAvsFan View Post
I have no link but George McPhee said it when asked about sending Alzner down to the AHL. I mean AHL has it's player(mostly changing, but now Carlson, Couture until they are NHLers) and KHL has it's players(mostly washed up players or failed NHLers). The Hershey bears could beat any KHL team on any given day imo. The KHL has more skill, I would never argue that but imo the AHL is better.

What i meant by that was I know Cohen has a bomb from the point what skills does Holos have? The only argument I am hearing is he can log a ton of minutes.
A few things come to mind. He has very good speed, is very good positionally and is very good 1-on-1.
As Dimitri said, being the best dman on the Norwegian team is not what is important. The important thing is how he did against the other teams' top players especially Canada. Just like Dimitri, I also believe he has proven more than Cohen and Barrie so far but that in itself does not mean he is a better prospect. However in the case of these 3 players I believe he has the better chance of making it to the NHL. Barrie might have more potential but at this point in time he is a long shot.

BTW my next choice will be Barrie over Cohen.

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07-14-2010, 07:30 PM
  #42
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A few things come to mind. He has very good speed, is very good positionally and is very good 1-on-1.
As Dimitri said, being the best dman on the Norwegian team is not what is important. The important thing is how he did against the other teams' top players especially Canada. Just like Dimitri, I also believe he has proven more than Cohen and Barrie so far but that in itself does not mean he is a better prospect. However in the case of these 3 players I believe he has the better chance of making it to the NHL. Barrie might have more potential but at this point in time he is a long shot.

BTW my next choice will be Barrie over Cohen.
Summed it up quite nicely! Also; Holos > Howden/Watson

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07-15-2010, 12:06 AM
  #43
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A few things come to mind. He has very good speed, is very good positionally and is very good 1-on-1.
As Dimitri said, being the best dman on the Norwegian team is not what is important. The important thing is how he did against the other teams' top players especially Canada. Just like Dimitri, I also believe he has proven more than Cohen and Barrie so far but that in itself does not mean he is a better prospect. However in the case of these 3 players I believe he has the better chance of making it to the NHL. Barrie might have more potential but at this point in time he is a long shot.
I won't rehash the Holos debate. I'm pretty much on an island in thinking he is vastly overrated by many on this board. But why do you think Barrie is a long shot? I'm not saying Barrie is a lock to make it to the NHL but you could say the same about a lot of our defensive prospects not named Shattenkirk and Elliot. Curious at what you've seen in Barrie to make a comment like that.

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07-15-2010, 12:27 AM
  #44
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I won't rehash the Holos debate. I'm pretty much on an island in thinking he is vastly overrated by many on this board. But why do you think Barrie is a long shot? I'm not saying Barrie is a lock to make it to the NHL but you could say the same about a lot of our defensive prospects not named Shattenkirk and Elliot. Curious at what you've seen in Barrie to make a comment like that.
I think the only reason we all love Holos is because of his strong showing in the Olympics. That's obviously a small sample size, but he did perform admirably against what can only be called the best competition in the world.

His future, like all the other prospects, remains to be seen.


*obvious statement over*

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07-15-2010, 12:51 AM
  #45
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I won't rehash the Holos debate. I'm pretty much on an island in thinking he is vastly overrated by many on this board. But why do you think Barrie is a long shot? I'm not saying Barrie is a lock to make it to the NHL but you could say the same about a lot of our defensive prospects not named Shattenkirk and Elliot. Curious at what you've seen in Barrie to make a comment like that.
I agree I shouldn't have used the term 'long shot'. It is a little strong. What I meant is that his game is a lot better offensively than defensively compare to Shattenkirk and Elliott. Combine that with his size and the odds are a little bit more against him that's all. I hope he makes it because he O game is great.

I don't think we are overrating Holos. I don't think anybody is saying that he will save the Avs. We are just defending his game and saying that he has a better chance of making it than Cohen. BTW contrary to the reports that Holos is small, he is not really. Eliteprospect has him at 5'11'' and 209 lbs and he is reported as being very strong although not very physical.

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07-15-2010, 07:51 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by cyberfan View Post
I agree I shouldn't have used the term 'long shot'. It is a little strong. What I meant is that his game is a lot better offensively than defensively compare to Shattenkirk and Elliott. Combine that with his size and the odds are a little bit more against him that's all. I hope he makes it because he O game is great.
Sounds like Marc-Andre Bergeron.

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07-15-2010, 07:33 PM
  #47
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I think the only reason we all love Holos is because of his strong showing in the Olympics. That's obviously a small sample size, but he did perform admirably against what can only be called the best competition in the world.
Some also like him because he plays amongst men, seems to hold his ground, and logs a ton of minutes. Maybe that doesn't say much but it does indicate he has the trust of his coaches, and that probably wouldn't happen if he was lacking defensively.

That said: of course we'll have to see training camp and potentially the NHL season for a more accurate assessment of his play.

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