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Old
08-23-2010, 02:04 PM
  #276
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Anyone got new pictures?

I wonder if he bulked up a little.

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08-23-2010, 02:08 PM
  #277
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Markov Tinordi
Subban Gorges
Carle O'byrne

But for the last two I think we'll have some veteran

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08-23-2010, 02:22 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Petrov? Absolutely. Grachev...geez....I'll have a hard time, as much as I adore Avtsin, to put Grachev behind him RIGHT NOW.
ageed, and if Grachev struggle in the AHL last year after being a dominant player in the OHL and the WJC the year before. How's Avstyn going to do ? barely played in the khl last year (30 some game with 5-7min/gm of ice time) and didnt make his national team for the wjc

i still think going play major jr hockey would be the best option for him. but it won't happen

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08-23-2010, 02:28 PM
  #279
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ageed, and if Grachev struggle in the AHL last year after being a dominant player in the OHL and the WJC the year before. How's Avstyn going to do ? barely played in the khl last year (30 some game with 5-7min/gm of ice time) and didnt make his national team for the wjc

i still think going play major jr hockey would be the best option for him. but it won't happen
Russians have had some very questionable decisions in regards to their national teams in the last year or two, Ovechkin alleged in an interview that roster spots were being bought of late on the national teams. Avtsin making the team wasn't a huge deal, a lot of players don't make the national team in their draft year and turn out fine.

Avtsin has shown a high level of commitment to conditioning despite his ice time, hell in a skills test he finished a full lap ahead of the rest of his KHL team in a 10-lap cycle.

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08-23-2010, 02:37 PM
  #280
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Russians have had some very questionable decisions in regards to their national teams in the last year or two, Ovechkin alleged in an interview that roster spots were being bought of late on the national teams. Avtsin making the team wasn't a huge deal, a lot of players don't make the national team in their draft year and turn out fine.

Avtsin has shown a high level of commitment to conditioning despite his ice time, hell in a skills test he finished a full lap ahead of the rest of his KHL team in a 10-lap cycle.
i understand that but the point i was trying to make was that Grachev was a much much better prospects than Avstyn and struggle last year in the ahl. so im wondering how's Avstyn going to do this year with the dogs ?

since about last May i have been saying that Avstyn best place for his developpement would be in major junior hockey for the 10-11 season

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08-23-2010, 03:25 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
a couple of years ago, people were like "I can't wait to see a top 6 of Perezhogin, A. Kostitsyn, S. Kostitsyn, Maxwell, Grabovski and D'Agostini. Not to mention guys like Higgins, Chipchura and Lapierre. How flexible would that cap be? lmao. Plus having a captain-like player in Higgins still with the team to help these kids out."

Things change A LOT in a gap of 2-3 years. Odds are of all these 8 guys, max. 4 or 5 will pan out, and this is if we're even lucky.
There are two major differences. First, we finally have prospects with size. Second, these guys are North American and play a grittier style than Perezhogin and the Kostitsyns. Sorry, but I also wouldn't compare the captain qualities of a veteran like Gionta over a "potential 40 goal scorer" in Higgins. That's a joke of a comparison.

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08-23-2010, 05:12 PM
  #282
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There are two major differences. First, we finally have prospects with size. Second, these guys are North American and play a grittier style than Perezhogin and the Kostitsyns. Sorry, but I also wouldn't compare the captain qualities of a veteran like Gionta over a "potential 40 goal scorer" in Higgins. That's a joke of a comparison.
Go back 2 years in time, and people on this board wouldn't trade Higgins for Gionta and a 1st round pick. Sad but true.
Also, both of the brothers were seen as very gritty players a couple of years ago. Especially Sergei. Gritty was in all of the projections for him

Prospects rarely pan out how we expect them to. And they rarely all live up to their potential. If half of those guys do meet up with their potential, well, we'll have been developing them greatly.

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08-23-2010, 05:18 PM
  #283
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Go back 2 years in time, and people on this board wouldn't trade Higgins for Gionta and a 1st round pick. Sad but true.
Also, both of the brothers were seen as very gritty players a couple of years ago. Especially Sergei. Gritty was in all of the projections for him

Prospects rarely pan out how we expect them to. And they rarely all live up to their potential. If half of those guys do meet up with their potential, well, we'll have been developing them greatly.
Higgins crashed and burned faster than the Heindenburg.

He was crazy good paired with Koivu, and we didn't do that trade at the time rightfully so.

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Old
08-23-2010, 05:50 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Cam A Larry View Post
a couple of years ago, people were like "I can't wait to see a top 6 of Perezhogin, A. Kostitsyn, S. Kostitsyn, Maxwell, Grabovski and D'Agostini. Not to mention guys like Higgins, Chipchura and Lapierre. How flexible would that cap be? lmao. Plus having a captain-like player in Higgins still with the team to help these kids out."

Things change A LOT in a gap of 2-3 years. Odds are of all these 8 guys, max. 4 or 5 will pan out, and this is if we're even lucky.
That's the problem when you have no depth and rush young players, one of the biggest problem for the Habs in the last couple of years.Now that we have better depth Red Wings should be our blueprint for the future.

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08-23-2010, 09:19 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by SeriousFan09 View Post
Ideally, Avtsin fits into a temporary boost the Canadiens will have in offensive depth in 12-13. By that time, say you have Pouliot and Eller with the core of Gionta, Gomez, Cammalleri and Pleks. That opens up a 3rd line of Avtsin-Leblanc-Kristo with a Lapierre-Boyd-Pyatt line at 4th. Tinordi has joined the Habs and it's Markov-Subban, Tinordi-Gorges and Carle-O'Byrne for sake of argument with Ramo backing Price.

That would give the Habs the desired '3 lines deep' that seems to necessitate a Cup run these days, albeit only for a year or two maybe but it would be there.
this team absolutely needs one of conboy or Schultz in the line up by next year

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08-23-2010, 09:28 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
this team absolutely needs one of conboy or Schultz in the line up by next year
We have a better bottom 6 than last year and we just made it to the ECF. Neither conboy or schultz are ready.

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08-23-2010, 09:34 PM
  #287
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this team absolutely needs one of conboy or Schultz in the line up by next year
They need players who are lacking experience against men and both have skating issues ?

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08-23-2010, 11:17 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
They need players who are lacking experience against men and both have skating issues ?
That's the first time I read that Conboy has skating issues. I always thought he was quite fast for his size. I don't think it is that far fetched to see him on our fourth line next year...

Edit : next year as in 2011-12...

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08-23-2010, 11:31 PM
  #289
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They need players who are lacking experience against men and both have skating issues ?
no, within the next year or two we need additional toughness and spare me the ryan white argument; he's not any kind of deterrent. that's what i'm saying. conboy actually has wheels, and i believe Schultz has the work ethic to become a tough hardworking and serviceable 3/4th liner

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We have a better bottom 6 than last year and we just made it to the ECF. Neither conboy or schultz are ready.
hopefully one will be ready in the next two years

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08-24-2010, 12:30 AM
  #290
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We have a better bottom 6 than last year and we just made it to the ECF. Neither conboy or schultz are ready.
The bottom-6 of this year still has to prove their worth. And sorry, but we have neither of Moore or Metropolit on our bottom-6 anymore. And we didn't make it to the ECF because of our bottom-6. We made it there because our most important players played lights out. And it remains to be seen if Price can do what Halak did. Our most important player playing on one of the bottom-lines was Moore, and he's gone.

As for the guy you quoted, Well we definitely could use some additionnal toughness on our bottom lines.

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08-24-2010, 06:50 AM
  #291
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The bottom-6 of this year still has to prove their worth. And sorry, but we have neither of Moore or Metropolit on our bottom-6 anymore. And we didn't make it to the ECF because of our bottom-6. We made it there because our most important players played lights out. And it remains to be seen if Price can do what Halak did. Our most important player playing on one of the bottom-lines was Moore, and he's gone.

As for the guy you quoted, Well we definitely could use some additionnal toughness on our bottom lines.
Why do some people talk about him like he was there all of last year? Our bottom 6 IS better than last year and if we need a Moore, well PG will get one at the deadline again like last year. Let's start with the season. Playoffs are far far away and the team can change between the opening game and the playoffs.

We did NOT have an Eller at the start of the season last year. Only Metro is gone, but Boyd and Eller are here and Lapierre is healthier. Pyatt who did great was there towards the end of the season, not at the beginning. We do have a better bottom 6 to start the season vs. last year's opening roster.

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08-24-2010, 08:59 AM
  #292
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That's the first time I read that Conboy has skating issues. I always thought he was quite fast for his size. I don't think it is that far fetched to see him on our fourth line next year...

Edit : next year as in 2011-12...
He is fast, he moves well for a big guy, which helps him thrown some big hits. He's making good stides to round out the rest of his game, so I wouldn't rush him but if things continue to go well for him, who knows maybe a callup at some point if injuries hit later in the year.

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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
no, within the next year or two we need additional toughness and spare me the ryan white argument; he's not any kind of deterrent. that's what i'm saying. conboy actually has wheels, and i believe Schultz has the work ethic to become a tough hardworking and serviceable 3/4th liner
I would guess that Schultz is a few years away since he's got skating issues but I guess we'll see how he adjusts to the pro level.

Conboy does have wheels but he's not that tough, White's tougher imo.

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08-24-2010, 10:24 AM
  #293
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no, within the next year or two we need additional toughness and spare me the ryan white argument; he's not any kind of deterrent. that's what i'm saying. conboy actually has wheels, and i believe Schultz has the work ethic to become a tough hardworking and serviceable 3/4th liner
White is like a Lapierre, but could turn into a Carcillo.

Conboy skates weird to me, but he might get called up this year, probably next year he'll make the team, like someone else said.

Schultz will probably be the year after. Unless, in Hamilton he learns and improves a lot, then he could challenge Conboy next year.

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08-24-2010, 10:50 AM
  #294
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Why do some people talk about him like he was there all of last year? Our bottom 6 IS better than last year and if we need a Moore, well PG will get one at the deadline again like last year. Let's start with the season. Playoffs are far far away and the team can change between the opening game and the playoffs.

We did NOT have an Eller at the start of the season last year. Only Metro is gone, but Boyd and Eller are here and Lapierre is healthier. Pyatt who did great was there towards the end of the season, not at the beginning. We do have a better bottom 6 to start the season vs. last year's opening roster.
well ... seems to me like we are getting plenty of young , potentially great bottom liners , hoping for 6 of them to pan out in their 1rst seasons here, or in the NHL.

metro and moore are proven values, the burden of the proof lies with the new guys. Its hard to believe metro and moore's upsides will be compensated that easily, when you add leadership and experience in the pot. Letting moore go is a mystery to me, it seemed like locking him 2 years was just common sense.

this is not playstation, and prospects < proven veterans , especially on the bottom 6.

I see pacioretty in the lineups everywhere, its a longshot. We can all honestly think of 2-3 guys ahead of him, if not more. The guy can't score in the AHL and he's featured on the top two lines in mtl ?... give me a break.

as for avtsin ... I'm really high on him. If he can get over here and play in hamilton for a year, and he does well . I see him making the team next year. If we handle him properly, he can surprise a lot of people. But I honestly hope Pouilot and A.kos have good enough seasons for us not to think about that. just allow our younger players to play in hamilton, away from pressure.

comming from subban ; '' its a big step '' ... playing in hamilton, let alone the NHL. and its subban, not any random truculent thug.

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08-24-2010, 11:51 AM
  #295
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He is fast, he moves well for a big guy, which helps him thrown some big hits. He's making good stides to round out the rest of his game, so I wouldn't rush him but if things continue to go well for him, who knows maybe a callup at some point if injuries hit later in the year.

Conboy does have wheels but he's not that tough, White's tougher imo.

I thought I remember you saying Conboy was fast and that's why I was surprise by the other guy who said he had skating issues.

But if I can ask you one more question, what exactly do you mean when you say White is tougher ? Do you mean he's a better fighter ? tougher to knock off the puck? or just more physical overall?

thanks

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08-24-2010, 12:08 PM
  #296
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I think it best for Avtsin to play on an offensive line, whether that Hamilton, the Q, or NHL remains to be seen.

In the NHL:

Avtsin - Gomez - Gionta
or
Boyd - Eller - Avtsin

In the AHL:

Pacioretty - Maxwell - Avtsin
or
Palushaj - Dumont - Avtsin

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08-24-2010, 12:45 PM
  #297
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I thought I remember you saying Conboy was fast and that's why I was surprise by the other guy who said he had skating issues.

But if I can ask you one more question, what exactly do you mean when you say White is tougher ? Do you mean he's a better fighter ? tougher to knock off the puck? or just more physical overall?

thanks
I think that many have a misconception when it comes to Conboy, they here that he's 6'4, 200, can throw big hits and will drop the gloves. But Conboy imo is not going to be much of a fighter, as he doesn't fight that much in the AHL, at least so far. Not saying he doesn't fight, cause he clearly does but I just think that some expect him to be a top notch fighter and I think some will be disappointed that he doesn't fight more.

Ryan White had 16 fights last season (2 NHL, 12 AHL regular season, 1 postseason, 1 preseason)

Conboy had 9 fights last season (7 regular season, 2 in post season)

White imo is tougher, he's a lot more aggressive physically, always hitting, whereas Conboy can dish some big ones, White is a lot more consistent in taking the body and will drop the gloves more. Granted it helps that he sees more ice time then Conboy, but it seems like he's always stiring things up, Conboy can go games without you really notcing him at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
I think it best for Avtsin to play on an offensive line, whether that Hamilton, the Q, or NHL remains to be seen.

In the AHL:

Pacioretty - Maxwell - Avtsin
or
Palushaj - Dumont - Avtsin
Dumont's a winger. Desharnais is the best center the Dogs have bar none so I'd put him with him personally but we'll have to see how he looks at camp first.

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08-24-2010, 01:05 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
I think it best for Avtsin to play on an offensive line, whether that Hamilton, the Q, or NHL remains to be seen.

In the NHL:

Avtsin - Gomez - Gionta
or
Boyd - Eller - Avtsin

In the AHL:

Pacioretty - Maxwell - Avtsin
or
Palushaj - Dumont - Avtsin
I want to see for our top 2 lines Dumont-Engsvist-Avstyn and Pacioretty-Desharnais-Plalushaj.

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08-24-2010, 01:42 PM
  #299
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well ... seems to me like we are getting plenty of young , potentially great bottom liners , hoping for 6 of them to pan out in their 1rst seasons here, or in the NHL.

metro and moore are proven values, the burden of the proof lies with the new guys. Its hard to believe metro and moore's upsides will be compensated that easily, when you add leadership and experience in the pot. Letting moore go is a mystery to me, it seemed like locking him 2 years was just common sense.

this is not playstation, and prospects < proven veterans , especially on the bottom 6.

I see pacioretty in the lineups everywhere, its a longshot. We can all honestly think of 2-3 guys ahead of him, if not more. The guy can't score in the AHL and he's featured on the top two lines in mtl ?... give me a break.

as for avtsin ... I'm really high on him. If he can get over here and play in hamilton for a year, and he does well . I see him making the team next year. If we handle him properly, he can surprise a lot of people. But I honestly hope Pouilot and A.kos have good enough seasons for us not to think about that. just allow our younger players to play in hamilton, away from pressure.

comming from subban ; '' its a big step '' ... playing in hamilton, let alone the NHL. and its subban, not any random truculent thug.
You compeltely missed my point. Except Metro, name a player that we lost taht was there in our bottom 6 last year at the start of the season? NONE!!!

- Lapierre was there and still is, but healthier. Is a vet.
- Moen also. Is a vet.
- Pyatt proved last year he can play. Not a vet, but somewhat proven. Not a complete unknown.
- Boyd is proven although unkown to most here. Boyd is a better Metro and as proven.

So relying on a top prospect like Eller and another kid on the 4th line (and we have Darche who is not a kid) is hoping for a bunch to pan out????

Sorry, but you are one of the many posters here that just can't analyze our bottom 6properly.


LOL at this is not Playstation. I'm not a kid and I haven't played that thing in years.

You talk about Paciorrety, but do you remember he played on our top 6 for a good part of the season last year??? Now we are refering to him as a Hamilton guy. See the improvement in depth?

Moore was not there for most of the year and at the beginning of the year. What's so hard to understand in that? Sign him for 2 years? Why? To put Eller on the 4th line, ya that's how you develop a top prospect

It's unbelievable how people forget and think that the line up at the end of the year was there the whole year

With all these facts, I actually dare someone to say that our starting bottom 6 this year is not better than last year's! And if you do, try and support your opinion with actual facts.

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08-24-2010, 05:10 PM
  #300
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I think that many have a misconception when it comes to Conboy, they here that he's 6'4, 200, can throw big hits and will drop the gloves. But Conboy imo is not going to be much of a fighter, as he doesn't fight that much in the AHL, at least so far. Not saying he doesn't fight, cause he clearly does but I just think that some expect him to be a top notch fighter and I think some will be disappointed that he doesn't fight more.

Ryan White had 16 fights last season (2 NHL, 12 AHL regular season, 1 postseason, 1 preseason)

Conboy had 9 fights last season (7 regular season, 2 in post season)

White imo is tougher, he's a lot more aggressive physically, always hitting, whereas Conboy can dish some big ones, White is a lot more consistent in taking the body and will drop the gloves more. Granted it helps that he sees more ice time then Conboy, but it seems like he's always stiring things up, Conboy can go games without you really notcing him at all.
Thanks a lot. Although I'm a bit disappointed by what you say about Conboy. I was hoping that he was consistent with his physical play and that he would be our guy to take care of the middleweights. Oh well, I guess I should rely my expectations on Schultz and White then...

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