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Gagne and Hartnell to LA

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Old
07-15-2010, 12:31 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
You sure about that?

Dichotomy - division into two mutually exclusive, opposed, or contradictory groups: a dichotomy between thought and action. Thanks for that grammar lesson, wizard.
"You're silly. The dichotomy between Briere at RW and Briere at C is overwhelming."

So you are saying that "the division into two mutually exclusive opposed or contradictory groups" is overwhelming that doesnt make grammatical sense because something is or is not a dichotomy, not to a degree

I believe this would be vocabulary

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07-15-2010, 12:31 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
You would trade all that for one year of Gagne and three years of Hartnell (at $4+ per year)? You are generous but I'm glad you aren't the Kings GM.
Gagne's agent is talking with the Kings, aka there could be talk about an extension when he joins the team. If thats true, I can see something close to that happening. i know King fans will rage, but thats what it is, value for value. You arent going to give us ****** players for 2 guys who can play in the top 6, and combined will give over 100 points.

Like 99% of the Flyers fans agree. If we arent getting value for Gagne or maybe even Hartnell we are 100% happy with keeping them. Totally happy. We all want to move a d-man anyway before we trade Gagne.

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Old
07-15-2010, 12:32 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by LAX attack View Post
coach Terry Murray doesn't trust Ersberg to play
because Ersberg sucks.

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Old
07-15-2010, 12:36 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by FireHolmgrenDotCom View Post
dont think I am in the minority on that idea.
I would happy with Richards,Carter,Stoll,Betts down the middle
not gonna happen tho
Maybe I am wrong but I think most fans were happy with Richards, Briere, Betts. Carter was injured.

Some like Giroux there too.

I'd consider Gagne for Stoll plus a decent prospect. If that Prospect is Moller I have no interest.

We waive Cote and we under the cap. Correct?

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07-15-2010, 12:36 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Gagne's agent is talking with the Kings, aka there could be talk about an extension when he joins the team. If thats true, I can see something close to that happening. i know King fans will rage, but thats what it is, value for value. You arent going to give us ****** players for 2 guys who can play in the top 6, and combined will give over 100 points.

Like 99% of the Flyers fans agree. If we arent getting value for Gagne or maybe even Hartnell we are 100% happy with keeping them. Totally happy. We all want to move a d-man anyway before we trade Gagne.
This might be the case if the Flyers didn't absolutely have to clear about $3 million in cap before they can play hockey again.

I'm not a Flyers fan but I would agree with you in regards to keeping Gagne and Hartnell. I would look to move a d-man first, but I also wouldn't have acquired Meszaros. Unfortunately for Philly, I'm guessing Gagne gets moved...but I have a feeling Hartnell stays put because you won't get a ton of value for him right now. This trade will be one of necessity, a cap casualty, so you won't get the kind of value you'd get otherwise.

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07-15-2010, 12:37 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAX attack View Post
"You're silly. The dichotomy between Briere at RW and Briere at C is overwhelming."

So you are saying that "the division into two mutually exclusive opposed or contradictory groups" is overwhelming that doesnt make grammatical sense because something is or is not a dichotomy, not to a degree

I believe this would be vocabulary
So you're telling me that the difference between two mutually exclusive groups can't be overwhelming? Wouldn't the difference between fruits and vegetables be FAR more overwhelming than that of the difference between a car and bike? Therefore, the "dichotomy," or the actual division of a player into RW or C, would be great if there was a HUGE difference between a player playing one position over the other?

And try properly punctuating when attempting to prove a point, it carries more weight. I believe this would be grammar.

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07-15-2010, 12:37 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Kopi to Kovy View Post
lol kings wouldn't give that in return
Yeah, no kidding. One year of Gagne and couple more of Hartnell, not to mention clearing a **** ton of cap space for the Flyers.

Player+prospect+pick

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07-15-2010, 12:37 PM
  #108
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Why not? They both can't be a starter for you. Bernier is ready to take the #1 job and you have a solid backup in Ersberg. Quick is a asset who's value is high and can help you guys build up on the wings.
The timing just isn't right for that kind of gamble. The earliest Lombardi will know which one is "the man" is at the end of next season. I'm sure he wants to see Quick and Bernier perform under pressure in the late season and playoffs before making a big decision like that.

Look at how long Lombardi hung on to Toskala, Nabokov, and Kipper in San Jose. He is never in a hurry to move a goalie.

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07-15-2010, 12:37 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Gagne's agent is talking with the Kings, aka there could be talk about an extension when he joins the team. If thats true, I can see something close to that happening. i know King fans will rage, but thats what it is, value for value. You arent going to give us ****** players for 2 guys who can play in the top 6, and combined will give over 100 points.

Like 99% of the Flyers fans agree. If we arent getting value for Gagne or maybe even Hartnell we are 100% happy with keeping them. Totally happy. We all want to move a d-man anyway before we trade Gagne.
Who cares if Gagne's agent is talking with the Kings? It is impossible to gauge a fair contract extension value for Gagne right now. Is he worth $5 million or $2 million? He is 30 years old with a lot of mileage on him. If I'm Lombardi, I insist on getting him cheap from Philly and talking extension once he proves himself and stays healthy.

From the Philly perspective, they have NO leverage. Gagne can determine where he wants to play and the list is bound to be very short. Then, from that short list, the other team must be interested and have cap room. That is even a shorter list (maybe 2 teams?). At the end of the day, why would the Kings overpay when they are probably negotiating against themselves?

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07-15-2010, 12:37 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
So you're telling me that the difference between two mutually exclusive groups can't be overwhelming? Wouldn't the difference between fruits and vegetables be FAR more overwhelming than that of the difference between a car and bike? Therefore, the "dichotomy," or the actual division of a player into RW or C, would be great if there was a HUGE difference between a player playing one position over the other?

And try properly punctuating when attempting to prove a point, it carries more weight. I believe this would be grammar.
No because either an extreme difference exist or it doesn't.

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Old
07-15-2010, 12:38 PM
  #111
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Hartnell is not moving. He has the full NMC and he's expressed several times that he will not waive the clause. That means the only way he's going is if he gets picked up on waivers by another team. Philly isn't going to do that because they lose him for nothing and still have a portion of his salary on the books.

Homer needs to dump a major salary. The only two real options are Gagne and Carter. Both have one year remaining on their contracts. Carter is more attractive because he is younger and is an RFA at the end of the year. However, Gagne has to be the guy they want to part ways with. Gagne will get a return as well but with his injury history, teams may not be willing to pay the price Homer wants.

I think there is really only one team in play for Gagne at the moment although that can change in a second. I would love to see a trade that involves Langkow + picks/prospects (I'm thinking goaltender like Keatley or a 2nd or 3rd round pick for 2011).

Otherwise, Los Angeles is the forerunner. They have the need for a guy like Gagne, the picks/prospects, are a Western Conference team (no GM wants to trade in the division first, conference 2nd, last years Stanley Cup team 3rd, contender 4th), and once Kovalchuk finally decides that he's not getting the big offer he thinks is coming, Gagne will be a target.

Other teams that could be in the mix quietly: Tampa Bay, NYI, Minnesota (Harding for Gagne would be an epic deal for both sides), Edmonton, Colorado.

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Old
07-15-2010, 12:39 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAX attack View Post
No because either an extreme difference exist or it doesn't.
You used "exist" completely wrong.

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Old
07-15-2010, 12:40 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
You used "exist" completely wrong.
you only have 82 posts. you are wrong.

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Old
07-15-2010, 12:41 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
You used "exist" completely wrong.
And winner by knockout in the 3rd, JohnnyOnTheSpot! (Raises his arm)

You have just been taken to school.

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Old
07-15-2010, 12:42 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by LAX attack View Post
you only have 82 posts. you are wrong.
Hmm, so because you spend your days on a message board you are automatically all knowing? **** is that what you need to get into Harvard these days? I need to get my posts up.

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07-15-2010, 12:44 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
No way. It would be prospects, picks and maybe a dead-weight player. i.e Stoll or Williams.
We want to win now, doing this deal for picks doesn't do that. It loses us roughly 50 goals a season. Quick would almost definitely be involved.

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07-15-2010, 12:44 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Atheris View Post
This might be the case if the Flyers didn't absolutely have to clear about $3 million in cap before they can play hockey again.
We have to clear just under 2 million. That can be done by moving Carle if nobody is willing to give up much for Gagne (which I doubt since we are letting Gagne talk to the teams first...ie extension). I'm sure San Jose would love to have Carle back, I know a good amount of their fans are willing.

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07-15-2010, 12:45 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atheris View Post
This might be the case if the Flyers didn't absolutely have to clear about $3 million in cap before they can play hockey again.

I'm not a Flyers fan but I would agree with you in regards to keeping Gagne and Hartnell. I would look to move a d-man first, but I also wouldn't have acquired Meszaros. Unfortunately for Philly, I'm guessing Gagne gets moved...but I have a feeling Hartnell stays put because you won't get a ton of value for him right now. This trade will be one of necessity, a cap casualty, so you won't get the kind of value you'd get otherwise.
See the thing is, most people said the same exact thing when Hawks fans said they would get value for their players. What really happened though is Hawks got some pretty good deals and they were way over the cap. We arent going to get ****** deals cause we are over the cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Who cares if Gagne's agent is talking with the Kings? It is impossible to gauge a fair contract extension value for Gagne right now. Is he worth $5 million or $2 million? He is 30 years old with a lot of mileage on him. If I'm Lombardi, I insist on getting him cheap from Philly and talking extension once he proves himself and stays healthy.

From the Philly perspective, they have NO leverage. Gagne can determine where he wants to play and the list is bound to be very short. Then, from that short list, the other team must be interested and have cap room. That is even a shorter list (maybe 2 teams?). At the end of the day, why would the Kings overpay when they are probably negotiating against themselves?
Bound to be short? What are you smoking? Almost a ppg player his whole career, and has just turned 30 and the list is short? Im guessing you never watched him play or know what he brings. And I guess you arent reading anything nowadays for the agent is free to talk to ALL teams, not just the Kings. There are reports that around 3-4 other teams are interested also.

And I guess you never heard of signing an extension beforehand? There have been TONS of cases in that regard....like alot. If the Kings want him and Gagne wants to get an extension, it could very possibly happen. When GMs see the players they like on the market and want them, their going to pay for them, even if their fans arent happy about it.

Trust me, as a Flyers fan, we have seen it multiple times.

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07-15-2010, 12:45 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
We want to win now, doing this deal for picks doesn't do that. It loses us roughly 50 goals a season. Quick would almost definitely be involved.
Propose a realistic alternative that gets you under the salary cap. If you want to win now, the first thing is to be eligible to even play...which the Flyers are not at the moment.

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07-15-2010, 12:46 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Kopi to Kovy View Post
lol kings wouldn't give that in return
You don't think Lombardi would consider Teubert, Stoll, Parse, Kozun and a 4th round pick to get Gagne (likely signed to a cap friendly extension) AND Hartnell?

I think it would give him pause to think. He would be hoping that Schenn could grow into the #2 center spot a little sooner, but Handzus could handle it in the meantime. He would have to go shopping for a servicable center for the 4th line via the UFA market or a minor trade though.

You take Stoll out and replace him with Williams in that deal and I bet Lombardi would give it very serious consideration.

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07-15-2010, 12:46 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
We want to win now, doing this deal for picks doesn't do that. It loses us roughly 50 goals a season. Quick would almost definitely be involved.
Keep telling yourself that.

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07-15-2010, 12:46 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Jeff VanRichards View Post
We have to clear just under 2 million. That can be done by moving Carle if nobody is willing to give up much for Gagne. I'm sure San Jose would love to have Carle back, I know a good amount of their fans are willing.
We are over by 2.5 mil plus we need around 1 mil to make minor call ups and such during the regular season.

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07-15-2010, 12:48 PM
  #123
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We are over by 2.5 mil plus we need around 1 mil to make minor call ups and such during the regular season.
Cote will not be on the roster next season...Shelley can assure you of that.

As for the extra room, moving Carle would more than accomplish that.

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07-15-2010, 12:48 PM
  #124
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Quick would almost definitely be involved.

Absolutely not.
Maybe in a season or two. But, no way in hell right now.

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07-15-2010, 12:49 PM
  #125
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Keep telling yourself that.
And keep telling yourself we are going to get garbage players for guys in our top 6.

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