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Old
07-18-2010, 01:36 PM
  #26
PanthersRule96
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Originally Posted by Knightmare View Post
Guys, I dont understand why everyone knows were going to tank. Our teams just as good as it was last year. There are a lot of "ifs" but I think were going to shock a lot of people. This is a rebound year for Higgins and could very possibly be a breakout year for Frolik and Grabner. And who knows, maybe a Repik comes in and scores 20. As long as Booth can stay relatively healthy, he can prob score 25-30. Our bottom 6 is ok. Offensively I'm confident we can get lucky and produce. Our D is the only thing that worries me. But Vokie is on top of the world and at his peak, so he can handle it. I'm excited about this season. We're making the playoffs this year...
I wish Repik would get a fair shake but I don't think there's any chance he makes the team out of camp because of DeBoer's issues with him and because they're trying to go big and gritty. Repik, IMO, can be Ray Whitney 2.0.

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07-18-2010, 02:07 PM
  #27
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I keep hearing about Pete's issues with Repik. Where does this actually stem from? Is this really confirmed?

Repik seems like a player who can contribute. But if there really is a problem and he won't get the ice time, then trade him for something. Don't just let him go to waste.

-ghoste

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07-18-2010, 04:17 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Knightmare View Post
Guys, I dont understand why everyone knows were going to tank. Our teams just as good as it was last year. There are a lot of "ifs" but I think were going to shock a lot of people. This is a rebound year for Higgins and could very possibly be a breakout year for Frolik and Grabner. And who knows, maybe a Repik comes in and scores 20. As long as Booth can stay relatively healthy, he can prob score 25-30. Our bottom 6 is ok. Offensively I'm confident we can get lucky and produce. Our D is the only thing that worries me. But Vokie is on top of the world and at his peak, so he can handle it. I'm excited about this season. We're making the playoffs this year...
Dude, there's no way we're as good as last year. And last year we finished 3rd worst.

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07-18-2010, 05:17 PM
  #29
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Dude, there's no way we're as good as last year. And last year we finished 3rd worst.
Well, I can definitely see his optimism. If Booth can actually play this season, he has the ability to offset the production we lost in Horton. Bernier should be an upgrade over Soupy. And Higgins should be an upgrade over Kreps. Sounds like Grabner has the potential to put up Frolik-type numbers, or at least be better than Taffe, Oreskovich, Big Mac, etc. Then of course you always hope that players like Matthias & Rusty improve.

Ballard wasn't great last season and replacing him with Wideman sounds like at the very least, a wash. Kuli had growing pains and a lot of rookie mistakes the 1st half of last season. But I thought he played well for the 2nd half. So if he doesn't regress, he should be fine. Allen has a season under his belt (following surgery) and Garrison was pretty steady. And McCabe was our best defenseman and just hope that he dupicates his numbers.

Who knows what will happen. Now don't get me wrong, I think getting Couturier would be way better for this organization -- in the long run -- than to barely make the playoffs or finish just short of it. So I'm all for tanking and getting the first-overall pick. However, my opinion is different because unlike most of you, I just sit at home here in San Diego and watch the games on Center Ice. I don't fork out the money for season tickets & gas, or spend the time & energy to get up and go to the BAC and back. Point is, tanking for me is easier to swallow.

But again, who knows what will happen. Tons of improvement in the special-teams department, coupled with some youth energy and the will to battle every night... who knows.

In closing, I'd still like to tank! :-)

-ghoste


Last edited by Ghoste: 07-18-2010 at 05:24 PM.
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07-18-2010, 05:42 PM
  #30
Dread Clawz
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Originally Posted by Ghoste View Post
Well, I can definitely see his optimism. If Booth can actually play this season, he has the ability to offset the production we lost in Horton. Bernier should be an upgrade over Soupy. And Higgins should be an upgrade over Kreps. Sounds like Grabner has the potential to put up Frolik-type numbers, or at least be better than Taffe, Oreskovich, Big Mac, etc. Then of course you always hope that players like Matthias & Rusty improve.

Ballard wasn't great last season and replacing him with Wideman sounds like at the very least, a wash. Kuli had growing pains and a lot of rookie mistakes the 1st half of last season. But I thought he played well for the 2nd half. So if he doesn't regress, he should be fine. Allen has a season under his belt (following surgery) and Garrison was pretty steady. And McCabe was our best defenseman and just hope that he dupicates his numbers.

Who knows what will happen. Now don't get me wrong, I think getting Couturier would be way better for this organization -- in the long run -- than to barely make the playoffs or finish just short of it. So I'm all for tanking and getting the first-overall pick. However, my opinion is different because unlike most of you, I just sit at home here in San Diego and watch the games on Center Ice. I don't fork out the money for season tickets & gas, or spend the time & energy to get up and go to the BAC and back. Point is, tanking for me is easier to swallow.

But again, who knows what will happen. Tons of improvement in the special-teams department, coupled with some youth energy and the will to battle every night... who knows.

In closing, I'd still like to tank! :-)

-ghoste
Maybe Booth plays for a whole season. But someone else could get injured for awhile, injuries happen. We're not going to stay healthy all season, that's what throws a wrench into the whole "if" argument. We lost Horton which is about 70-75 pts. in a good season. Replacing him with Grabner is still a downgrade, even if you include Bernier then he's replacing someone else. Also, Moore is gone who's about 30 pts. and was a good faceoff guy. In a very good season, Matthias would outscore him, but then who knows how much Matthias is going to produce. The addition of Higgins might make our forward group more productive this season, I think the chances are decent he bounces back, then again who knows.

Our D is clearly much weaker than last season and that's what tips the scales for me. We lost Ballard, Leo and Seids and have essentially replaced them with Wideman, Garrison and Gudbranson. It's clearly a big step down. I disagree that Caber was our best d-man, I think it was Seids, and I'm not expecting either Caber or Kulikov to do great against other teams' top lines. And will Vokoun repeat his Vezina nomination worthy performance again? That's not a guarantee either. I just think we are not as good as last season. If a lot of things come together, then we could be better this season, but that's just too many ifs for me to say that we are better. A lot has to be proven.

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07-18-2010, 06:04 PM
  #31
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Ok maybe as good as last year (on paper) was a stretch. BUT I just meant, I dont see us finishing bottom-3 this year. I see us on the bubble competing for a playoff spot. Call me overly optimistic, but I know it's a possibility if everything goes right.

Praying for a high draft pick and expecting the team to tank is exactly what we dont want anymore! We need to raise the bar! I'm expecting our team to win. And I know DeBoer/Tallon sure as hell are. We came to play. (ughh)

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07-18-2010, 06:09 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Maybe Booth plays for a whole season. But someone else could get injured for awhile, injuries happen. We're not going to stay healthy all season, that's what throws a wrench into the whole "if" argument. We lost Horton which is about 70-75 pts. in a good season. Replacing him with Grabner is still a downgrade, even if you include Bernier then he's replacing someone else. Also, Moore is gone who's about 30 pts. and was a good faceoff guy. In a very good season, Matthias would outscore him, but then who knows how much Matthias is going to produce. The addition of Higgins might make our forward group more productive this season, I think the chances are decent he bounces back, then again who knows.

Our D is clearly much weaker than last season and that's what tips the scales for me. We lost Ballard, Leo and Seids and have essentially replaced them with Wideman, Garrison and Gudbranson. It's clearly a big step down. I disagree that Caber was our best d-man, I think it was Seids, and I'm not expecting either Caber or Kulikov to do great against other teams' top lines. And will Vokoun repeat his Vezina nomination worthy performance again? That's not a guarantee either. I just think we are not as good as last season. If a lot of things come together, then we could be better this season, but that's just too many ifs for me to say that we are better. A lot has to be proven.
Seids, sure you might be right. But I didn't pick him because he got off lucky not being here the last 20 games.

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Originally Posted by Knightmare View Post
Ok maybe as good as last year (on paper) was a stretch. BUT I just meant, I dont see us finishing bottom-3 this year. I see us on the bubble competing for a playoff spot. Call me overly optimistic, but I know it's a possibility if everything goes right.

Praying for a high draft pick and expecting the team to tank is exactly what we dont want anymore! We need to raise the bar! I'm expecting our team to win. And I know DeBoer/Tallon sure as hell are. We came to play. (ughh)
I agree... but after this season.

-ghoste

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07-18-2010, 07:25 PM
  #33
Dread Clawz
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I agree... but after this season.

-ghoste
Agreed. lol

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07-19-2010, 07:04 AM
  #34
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The ugly truth is that the Panthers are also broke. It appears that we are currently on a self imposed budget of around $46 million taking into account that we are paying McCabe a couple of million less than his cap hit. Next season, we will shed another 16 million in expiring contracts (Vokoun, McCabe, Stillman, Dvorak) probably at the TDL.

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07-19-2010, 10:02 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Knightmare View Post
Guys, I dont understand why everyone knows were going to tank. Our teams just as good as it was last year. There are a lot of "ifs" but I think were going to shock a lot of people. This is a rebound year for Higgins and could very possibly be a breakout year for Frolik and Grabner. And who knows, maybe a Repik comes in and scores 20. As long as Booth can stay relatively healthy, he can prob score 25-30. Our bottom 6 is ok. Offensively I'm confident we can get lucky and produce. Our D is the only thing that worries me. But Vokie is on top of the world and at his peak, so he can handle it. I'm excited about this season. We're making the playoffs this year...
Repik hitting 20 is a stretch... the rest is doable.

This team needs another center and at least one more guy on D who brings his lunch pail to the arena every night. You're right though this team is on track for something positive and this season should see us make a run for the 8th spot but that begins on game 1 with the All-Star break being our finish line... we are out of it or even put in a position to fight it out we'll be cooked as Vokun will surely get traded. His contract is up at the end of this season, that's a huge pivot for this team and it's future.

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07-19-2010, 10:20 AM
  #36
Ghoste
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Originally Posted by SufferingCatFan View Post
The ugly truth is that the Panthers are also broke. It appears that we are currently on a self imposed budget of around $46 million taking into account that we are paying McCabe a couple of million less than his cap hit. Next season, we will shed another 16 million in expiring contracts (Vokoun, McCabe, Stillman, Dvorak) probably at the TDL.
Even more positive comes out of tanking. If we're able to get pieces out of these guys at the trade deadline (which chances are good), instead of keeping them the whole year and letting them walk for nothing, it just helps us even further.

-ghoste

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:22 AM
  #37
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sign artuykin!!! size, speed agitator with some skills.
Don't get me started!!!

Agree with Acadmus on Madden.

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Old
07-19-2010, 11:02 AM
  #38
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The ugly truth is that the Panthers are also broke. It appears that we are currently on a self imposed budget of around $46 million taking into account that we are paying McCabe a couple of million less than his cap hit. Next season, we will shed another 16 million in expiring contracts (Vokoun, McCabe, Stillman, Dvorak) probably at the TDL.
Dvorak is worth every penny, he'll be resigned unless someone comes in with an all to sweet offer at the TDL.

The old boy is the rarest of the rare... two way winger with speed who's an ace on the pk, loves to back check and is also a true part of the team and community, he should be penciled in at least to resign.

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07-19-2010, 11:16 AM
  #39
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there are too many maybes and ifs written by even those who believe we CAN make the playoffs. IF x is healthy, MAYBE these guys will break out bla bla bla... just face it, we're heading for a top 2 pick unless a miracle happens

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07-19-2010, 11:36 AM
  #40
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there are too many maybes and ifs written by even those who believe we CAN make the playoffs. IF x is healthy, MAYBE these guys will break out bla bla bla... just face it, we're heading for a top 2 pick unless a miracle happens
I unfortunately agree. Every year, we always say we can potentially sneak into the playoffs if we stay healthy and if certain players can step up and improve.

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07-19-2010, 11:36 AM
  #41
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there are too many maybes and ifs written by even those who believe we CAN make the playoffs. IF x is healthy, MAYBE these guys will break out bla bla bla... just face it, we're heading for a top 2 pick unless a miracle happens
As it stands now we're better then the Islanders, Thrashers and Leafs. It could also be argued that we are better off then the Rangers, Canes and Ottawa and the Sabres are only as good as Miller is.

Making the playoff's is on the charts and it's a great start for this club and it's fan base. Cups and respectability are down the road, right now it's about keeping within Pete's plan and Tallon's vision. Solid, winning hockey can be achieved by any unit who plays as a team... the club house is full of guys who want to be here and want to win here, that couldn't be said of last years team.

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07-19-2010, 12:00 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by WhalersPride View Post
As it stands now we're better then the Islanders, Thrashers and Leafs. It could also be argued that we are better off then the Rangers, Canes and Ottawa and the Sabres are only as good as Miller is.

Making the playoff's is on the charts and it's a great start for this club and it's fan base. Cups and respectability are down the road, right now it's about keeping within Pete's plan and Tallon's vision. Solid, winning hockey can be achieved by any unit who plays as a team... the club house is full of guys who want to be here and want to win here, that couldn't be said of last years team.
The only teams you mentioned, that we are on par with, is the Canes and Leafs. Those other teams most certainly trump us, for the time being. I think its a huge mistake for this team to make the playoffs this year as a 7/8 seed, because we are just not built for a playoff run. We need to have a shot at Larsson, Couturier, or Hopkins, and then go into next offseason, with a huge amount of cap space, and let Tallon add his finishing touches.

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07-19-2010, 12:53 PM
  #43
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The only teams you mentioned, that we are on par with, is the Canes and Leafs. Those other teams most certainly trump us, for the time being. I think its a huge mistake for this team to make the playoffs this year as a 7/8 seed, because we are just not built for a playoff run. We need to have a shot at Larsson, Couturier, or Hopkins, and then go into next offseason, with a huge amount of cap space, and let Tallon add his finishing touches.
It's not just about winning and making the playoff's for the sake of making a run at the cup. This team needs to create a buzz with the fans, it's been too long without even a 1st round exit... this organization needs a taste of the playoffs

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07-19-2010, 02:58 PM
  #44
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It's not just about winning and making the playoff's for the sake of making a run at the cup. This team needs to create a buzz with the fans, it's been too long without even a 1st round exit... this organization needs a taste of the playoffs
That's basically what my thinking is. As a fan, I just can't get myself to watch every game this season hoping they lose even though finishing dead last may be the best thing the organization could ever do for the future. Once we're at the point like we were around February of last season and I clearly see the playoffs are definitely a no-go, which I'll also agree is an almost certainty. I'll definitely join the tankwagon.

I do agree for the fanbase's standpoint, since 99% of them don't follow the team like we diehards do, a 7-8 seed and 1st playoff round exit would get them interested again instead of them just all saying "this team will be a freaking joke forever." Then, hopefully they can build up more of a run the following season from there. Most people have no idea what Tallon's plan is for this team and how tanking in a way is a great thing. The Bandwagonville South Florida fans just want to win NOW.

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07-19-2010, 04:20 PM
  #45
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That's basically what my thinking is. As a fan, I just can't get myself to watch every game this season hoping they lose even though finishing dead last may be the best thing the organization could ever do for the future. Once we're at the point like we were around February of last season and I clearly see the playoffs are definitely a no-go, which I'll also agree is an almost certainty. I'll definitely join the tankwagon.

I do agree for the fanbase's standpoint, since 99% of them don't follow the team like we diehards do, a 7-8 seed and 1st playoff round exit would get them interested again instead of them just all saying "this team will be a freaking joke forever." Then, hopefully they can build up more of a run the following season from there. Most people have no idea what Tallon's plan is for this team and how tanking in a way is a great thing. The Bandwagonville South Florida fans just want to win NOW.
I don't know about anyone else, but I actually have trouble giving my tickets away from time to time...

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07-19-2010, 08:26 PM
  #46
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We are finally doing things the right way. I don't want to make a splash just because the "average" fan, who doesn't show up to games anyway, wants one. Tickets are so ridiculously cheap which should make up for the team's horribleness atleast for this year.

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07-19-2010, 10:15 PM
  #47
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I don't know about anyone else, but I actually have trouble giving my tickets away from time to time...
You're not alone there. The average fan doesn't want to waste their time going to a free Panthers game to see them stink up the joint.

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07-19-2010, 11:37 PM
  #48
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We are finally doing things the right way. I don't want to make a splash just because the "average" fan, who doesn't show up to games anyway, wants one. Tickets are so ridiculously cheap which should make up for the team's horribleness atleast for this year.
What do you mean by "Splash"?? If you mean by going out and signing someone who can help this team NOW and in the future, then yes I( A diehard season ticket holder) agree with the "average" fan. I am not saying I want Tallon to go out and spend ridiculous money on players who aren't worth their contracts or on some players that are at the point in their careers where they are ready to hang up their skates, but by all means if he can make deals and bring in talented players ( or could have) to compliment our current "core" and new prospects we're building around, then why not? Tampa got Gagne for next to nothing, why not us? How about Ladd,Versteeg,Bygfulien( I think I butchered the spelling) I mean it seemed like everyone wanted them because of the connection with Tallon and they are supposedly hard-working,good character guys but ATL ended up getting them instead.
Maybe I am not seeing what some of you fellas are, but I don't see the problem in bringing in talented players who can become the future along side Booth,Weiss,Frolik,Kulikov,Grubs,and Markstrom and still put the team together the way Tallon wants too? Why do we have to tank (maybe not actually tanking but being that bad) that we have to get the #1 overall pick in order to become successful? We're still going to be unloading McCabe,Vokoun, and Stillman next offseason and opening up cap space, why couldn't we grab someone note-worthy this free agency to help this team at least have a chance of the playoffs and try to rebuild our dignity, respect, that sense of accomplishment, and most of all winning along side of rebuilding the team. Then come next off season,we can see what Free agency has to offer instead of tanking to get the 1st overall and then Free agency? Like I asked before, are those top 3 guys in the next years draft so good that they are all better than any Free agent this offseason and we're better off going after them them the free agents? Does anyone really think that Higgins, Bernier, Grabner and Wideman are going to be here as part of the "future" , or will they have that big of an impact that they will make this season much better than last season?

All I am saying is it would be nice to see the Panthers actually start winning as well as finally rebuild the right way. It would be nice to see them succeed during the rebuilding phase and give us something to be excited about.


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07-20-2010, 12:36 AM
  #49
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What do you mean by "Splash"?? If you mean by going out and signing someone who can help this team NOW and in the future, then yes I( A diehard season ticket holder) agree with the "average" fan. I am not saying I want Tallon to go out and spend ridiculous money on players who aren't worth their contracts or on some players that are at the point in their careers where they are ready to hang up their skates, but by all means if he can make deals and bring in talented players ( or could have) to compliment our current "core" and new prospects we're building around, then why not? Tampa got Gagne for next to nothing, why not us? How about Ladd,Versteeg,Bygfulien( I think I butchered the spelling) I mean it seemed like everyone wanted them because of the connection with Tallon and they are supposedly hard-working,good character guys but ATL ended up getting them instead.
Maybe I am not seeing what some of you fellas are, but I don't see the problem in bringing in talented players who can become the future along side Booth,Weiss,Frolik,Kulikov,Grubs,and Markstrom and still put the team together the way Tallon wants too? Why do we have to tank (maybe not actually tanking but being that bad) that we have to get the #1 overall pick in order to become successful? We're still going to be unloading McCabe,Vokoun, and Stillman next offseason and opening up cap space, why couldn't we grab someone note-worthy this free agency to help this team at least have a chance of the playoffs and try to rebuild our dignity, respect, that sense of accomplishment, and most of all winning along side of rebuilding the team. Then come next off season,we can see what Free agency has to offer instead of tanking to get the 1st overall and then Free agency? Like I asked before, are those top 3 guys in the next years draft so good that they are all better than any Free agent this offseason and we're better off going after them them the free agents? Does anyone really think that Higgins, Bernier, Grabner and Wideman are going to be here as part of the "future" , or will they have that big of an impact that they will make this season much better than last season?

All I am saying is it would be nice to see the Panthers actually start winning as well as finally rebuild the right way. It would be nice to see them succeed during the rebuilding phase and give us something to be excited about.
You can't have both. What you also have to remember is that GR said the payroll is going to be in the high 40M range, which is where we are now if you include Gud's yet-to-be-signed contract, which will be in the 3M range, standard for a 3rd overall pick. You have to allow room in the payroll for his contract because he might make the team. We simply don't have the money to throw around even if we wanted to. We are done spending unless we can move guys like Caber, Stillman, etc., which is doubtful. Those guys will have good value at the trade deadline when their contracts are about to expire, but not now, because most contenders especially are tight against the cap and can't afford their contracts relative to what they bring to the ice these days.

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07-20-2010, 03:11 PM
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RCGP
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Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
What do you mean by "Splash"?? If you mean by going out and signing someone who can help this team NOW and in the future, then yes I( A diehard season ticket holder) agree with the "average" fan. I am not saying I want Tallon to go out and spend ridiculous money on players who aren't worth their contracts or on some players that are at the point in their careers where they are ready to hang up their skates, but by all means if he can make deals and bring in talented players ( or could have) to compliment our current "core" and new prospects we're building around, then why not? Tampa got Gagne for next to nothing, why not us? How about Ladd,Versteeg,Bygfulien( I think I butchered the spelling) I mean it seemed like everyone wanted them because of the connection with Tallon and they are supposedly hard-working,good character guys but ATL ended up getting them instead.
Maybe I am not seeing what some of you fellas are, but I don't see the problem in bringing in talented players who can become the future along side Booth,Weiss,Frolik,Kulikov,Grubs,and Markstrom and still put the team together the way Tallon wants too? Why do we have to tank (maybe not actually tanking but being that bad) that we have to get the #1 overall pick in order to become successful? We're still going to be unloading McCabe,Vokoun, and Stillman next offseason and opening up cap space, why couldn't we grab someone note-worthy this free agency to help this team at least have a chance of the playoffs and try to rebuild our dignity, respect, that sense of accomplishment, and most of all winning along side of rebuilding the team. Then come next off season,we can see what Free agency has to offer instead of tanking to get the 1st overall and then Free agency? Like I asked before, are those top 3 guys in the next years draft so good that they are all better than any Free agent this offseason and we're better off going after them them the free agents? Does anyone really think that Higgins, Bernier, Grabner and Wideman are going to be here as part of the "future" , or will they have that big of an impact that they will make this season much better than last season?

All I am saying is it would be nice to see the Panthers actually start winning as well as finally rebuild the right way. It would be nice to see them succeed during the rebuilding phase and give us something to be excited about.
We tried it that way and it didn't work.

who is out there on FA that is young enough and good enough to help us now and in the future? The only one I see is Frolov and that would cost too much, and he wouldn't come here anyway.

Gagne wouldn't have waived his NTC. Ladd and Buf are high end 3rd liners/low end 2nd liners, not the type of player we should be sacrificing our future for. We tried that junk over the years with Zednik/Stumpel/Stillman/Reinprecht/Bertuzzi/etc, time to do a proper rebuild instead of hoping to sneak into the 8th spot and wishing for a miracle.

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