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Old
07-15-2010, 09:24 PM
  #26
grabo84
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What a terrible deal for Ottawa.

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Old
07-15-2010, 10:05 PM
  #27
JoeIsAStud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
Savard has positive value and Thomas has negative value. Their respective values cancel each other

If Ottawa acquires them both, they'd give up nothing of value (ie. Leclaire, Shannon, Kelly, etc).
If Tim Thomas has negative value, what does Pascal Leclaire have? You can make the argument that he has been the worst goalie in the league over the past 2 years, and he is on the roster for 3.8 million next year

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Old
07-15-2010, 10:13 PM
  #28
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Ottawa and Boston do not make good trade partners. Boston needs to shed salary, and Ottawa is against the cap.

Why would Ottawa want to create a problem for themselves unless the trade is lopsided in their favour. Why would Boston what to make that happen?

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Old
07-15-2010, 10:22 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by JoeIsAStud View Post
If Tim Thomas has negative value, what does Pascal Leclaire have? You can make the argument that he has been the worst goalie in the league over the past 2 years, and he is on the roster for 3.8 million next year
Leclaire probably has negative value as well.

At best, Leclaire is a 1a/b starter in this league. He played well in the playoffs for Ottawa after Elliot was benched, but his inconsistency during the regular season and his boatload of injuries make him a risk. As well, similarly talented goaltenders have signed for less this offseason, making his 3.8 millions dollar contract a big negative as well.

Having said that, his contract expires in a year. For a team looking to clear space off their cap, Leclaire could also be a nice player to have to balance out a trade at the deadline.

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Old
07-15-2010, 10:23 PM
  #30
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I highly doubt we'd want to trade Cowen to Boston and face a potential Chara-Cowen pairing six or more times a season for years to come.



Last edited by SENSational Sens Fan: 07-15-2010 at 10:43 PM.
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Old
07-15-2010, 10:26 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Riot View Post
Savard has positive value and Thomas has negative value. Their respective values cancel each other

If Ottawa acquires them both, they'd give up nothing of value (ie. Leclaire, Shannon, Kelly, etc).
Chris Kelly definitely has value, the other 2 not so much. But Leclair's contract is expiring this year (4.5 mill and 3.8 cap hit) so he still has more value than Thomas at 5 mill per for the next 5 years. Any team Thomas is on for the next 5 years, he's better be your clear cut #1 starting goaltender or you are screwed.

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Old
07-15-2010, 10:27 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SilencerX View Post
1. No way Ottawa trades their number one center, Spezza.
2. No way Ottawa trades their number one prospect, Cowen.

I could see a Leclaire for Thomas deal, but no way do we trade Spezza and only get Savard.
Yeah, Bos cuts salary and Ott upgrades goalie.

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Old
07-15-2010, 10:41 PM
  #33
IranCondraAffair
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Intradivision trades are a bad idea all around. However, if the Bruins MUST trade Savard, and Savard will ONLY play for Ottawa, the following will need to happen.

1. Ottawa will need to include Kelly in a trade. Spezza isn't being shopped anymore and Fisher won't be dealt either. Moving Kelly's contract is the best way to make a trade happen since he's the only remaining Centre making enough money to make room for Savard. A team with issues at 3rd "C" will need to be found for Kelly.

2. Ottawa needs to find an asset Boston wants. What does Boston need as a team? Centres? Defensive Prospects? Like every other trade involving a top-line player in the NHL(Heatley, Big Joe, etc..), the return won't be as good as expected, but it WILL benefit Boston, so Ottawa won't be able to send garbage away and end up with Savard. Foligno and one of the defensive prospects will be lost at the very least. Neil, Leclaire, Camps, Lee etc... and various other filler doesn't benefit anyone and won't be dealt.

3. A third team like NYI, ATL, or another team with cap room will be needed, and bribed, since both Boston and Ottawa are close to the cap. Even if Ottawa finds someone for Kelly, more room will be needed. As well, even if Boston gets rid of Savard, they will probably want a roster player coming back, and Ottawa might not have a roster plyer that Boston needs, so Ottawa will need to trade assets to a team that can send a player to Boston for Savard.

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Old
07-15-2010, 11:54 PM
  #34
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Spezza for Savard in any trade is basically swapping the same player, except Spezza is younger and is a better goal scorer, while Savard is better two way player.

I'd rather do Fisher and a 2'nd for Savard, i think thats pretty fair value wise, if not I'd go as far as replacing the 2nd with a first.

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Old
07-15-2010, 11:56 PM
  #35
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And Fisher can be traded, he's over rated, to win in this league you need TWO top of the line Centers, Spezza- Savard down the middle would be amazing and only be rivaled by Pits, and maybe Tampa buy they suck right now.

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Old
07-15-2010, 11:56 PM
  #36
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I meant rivaled in the east.

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Old
07-16-2010, 12:16 AM
  #37
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Blake Wheeler

for

Andy Sutton
2nd 2011

Value there?

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Old
07-16-2010, 12:33 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headsigh View Post
Blake Wheeler

for

Andy Sutton
2nd 2011

Value there?
Andy Sutton is a UFA, he's gone .

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Old
07-16-2010, 12:33 AM
  #39
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if ottawa actually does want both savard/thomas {and they might cause they are both good players} they still will have to live with the realities of the cap.

Boston cant expect to get very much value back other then cap relief... which is why theyd be dealing savard/thomas anyhow.

I could definitely see ottawa forcing Boston to take leclaire as part of the return since he would have absolutely no use to Ottawa after they got Thomas. Thomas is probably a pretty decent goalie for Ottawa to have while they hope for Elliot to take over.

Savard seems to want to play in ottawa or toronto for family reasons. I doubt Boston actually has ever considered waiving him or is unhappy with him. Im pretty sure that is total fabrication by writers trying to be controversial so they can keep jobs in this very competitive media world we live in where papers are all rumored going out of business soon.

i do believe Boston can easily do the math and look at the center ice position... look at the cap... and realize that maybe the team is better off if they move Savard and focus on keeping other players.

If Savard has asked for a trade {i believe} and Boston has realized it makes sense to honor his trade request {I believe this too} then Savard AND Thomas to Ottawa for almost nothing back in return does make some good sense.

Ottawa gets a huge win in terms of on ice talent... which they need in order to take on so much cap hit. Boston gets a huge win in terms of cap relief... which they need in order to give a divisional rival two impact players.

I wouldnt be shocked if the final trade looked something like
Savard and Thomas
for
Leclaire and some sort of conditional pick based on standings or playoff success...

and after this trade... I would expect Ottawa to bite the bullet and deal off Spezza to get their cap room fixed. I realize he has lots of fans that scream when his name is mentioned in a trade rumor, but we all know he has spent times in the doghouse with Ottawa management in recent years.

I would think Boston would retain Wheeler or sign an UFA winger after dealing off Savard... then keep Ryder around too... the team didnt really have Savard last year anyhow due to his injuries... so losing him doesnt really take much away from the offense we had last year. Adding Horton/Seguin though will make the offense better... hopefully better health fo guys like krecji/lucic/chara will make for a huge improvement in offense too. Last year everyone had career worst years basically... and the year before that everyone had career best years. I think if guys have average years, the offense will score enough to give us a shot at a home ice seeding for the playoffs even if we do move Savard.

and definitely getting out from under Thomas contract will figure to pay dividends over the next couple years even if most the benefit of it this year would be eaten up by having to take Leclaire back

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Old
07-16-2010, 06:52 AM
  #40
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how about leclaire for thomas?

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Old
07-16-2010, 09:13 AM
  #41
JoeIsAStud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppaDawg View Post
how about leclaire for thomas?
Only if Boston is willing to waive LeClaire and put him in Providence as the backup there.

I would never want him playing a game for the Bruins

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Old
07-16-2010, 09:24 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by JoeIsAStud View Post
Only if Boston is willing to waive LeClaire and put him in Providence as the backup there.

I would never want him playing a game for the Bruins
So you would rather pay Thomas 5 mill to be the back up instead ?

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Old
07-16-2010, 09:30 AM
  #43
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This deal simply cannot be made from an Ottawa POV because of cap space. Unless you make a multitude of moves... trading Lee, Kelley, Leclaire and Kuba, there's no way of making this deal work without including Spezza.

I'm no fan of Spezza but I wouldn't trade him straight up for Savard due to his health problems... I would only trade for Savard if it doesn't involve Spezza... I'd trade Spezza somewhere else for a power forward or cheaper offensively gifted forward.

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Old
07-16-2010, 10:09 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by slh2099 View Post
And Fisher can be traded, he's over rated, to win in this league you need TWO top of the line Centers, Spezza- Savard down the middle would be amazing and only be rivaled by Pits, and maybe Tampa buy they suck right now.
Sorry Fisher won't be traded just because you think he's overrated.

Savard, Spezza, Regin, Michalek, Alfie, Kovalev, Phillips, Gonchar, Kuba, Karlsson, would be the softest top 6/top 4 in the league. Those kind of teams only win you championship in NHL 10.

Our GM knows this and 29 other GMs would jump on the chance to add Fisher to their lineups. Not so much Spezza though... too bad Murray couldn't find any takers for our 7m giveaway machine.

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Old
07-16-2010, 10:20 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by JoeIsAStud View Post
Only if Boston is willing to waive LeClaire and put him in Providence as the backup there.

I would never want him playing a game for the Bruins
You, me and all Bruins nation don't like Leclaire, but this deal would help us a lot. Certainly would be tough to face Timmy 6 times per season, however I would still do that.

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Old
07-16-2010, 11:24 AM
  #46
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Sorry Fisher won't be traded just because you think he's overrated.

Savard, Spezza, Regin, Michalek, Alfie, Kovalev, Phillips, Gonchar, Kuba, Karlsson, would be the softest top 6/top 4 in the league. Those kind of teams only win you championship in NHL 10.

Our GM knows this and 29 other GMs would jump on the chance to add Fisher to their lineups. Not so much Spezza though... too bad Murray couldn't find any takers for our 7m giveaway machine.
can you make one single post without referencing Spezza as a giveaway machine, just one where you dont attack Spezza - just one. On the Sens board we all know that you think Fisher is the top center in the league and that Spezza should be in the AHL but could you at least not pollute the main boards? People here dont necessarily realize you are a Fisher fan and not a Sens fan.
it makes the rest of us look stupid by association.

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Old
07-16-2010, 11:37 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Lord Ahriman View Post
You, me and all Bruins nation don't like Leclaire, but this deal would help us a lot. Certainly would be tough to face Timmy 6 times per season, however I would still do that.
Then we are ****ed if Rask has a sophomore slump.

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Old
07-16-2010, 11:39 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thliner View Post
Chris Kelly definitely has value, the other 2 not so much. But Leclair's contract is expiring this year (4.5 mill and 3.8 cap hit) so he still has more value than Thomas at 5 mill per for the next 5 years. Any team Thomas is on for the next 5 years, he's better be your clear cut #1 starting goaltender or you are screwed.
Umm thats 3 years at $5mil. Still not pretty but no need to tack on an extra 2 years to make your point

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Old
07-16-2010, 12:13 PM
  #49
Wondercarrot
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I would try to make this happen from an ottawa perspective.
Could be one of those rare times you can get a talent upgrade at a couple of key spots without sacrificing much of the future.
I could see how Boston takes the opportunity to move Thomas with Savard knowing they probably wont get what Savard is worth so why not move the large unwanted contract with him as a condition.
I think you still get a decent young player and prospect or pick as well.

Thomas and Savard
for
Leclair, Lee and Foligno and maybe a pick.

Boston gets Lee and Foligno and saves $3.3 million in salary.
If they option Leclair to the minors they save a total of $7.1 million and still get to young NHL players and maybe the pick.

For Ottawa they end up about $1.5 million over the cap, if they could move Kelly in a separate deal then:

Regin 1.5 - Spezza 7 - Alfie 4.6
Michalek 4.3 - Savard 4 - Kovalev 5.0
Ruutu 1.3 - Fisher 4.2 - Neil 2.0
Shannon 0.62 - Smith 0.6 - Winchester 0.750

Phillips 3.5 - Gonchar 5.5
Kuba 3.7 - Karlsson 1.3
Carkner 0.7 -Cowen 1.1/ Campoli

Thomas 5.0
Elliot 0.850

Emery 0.5, Cheech 0.6, Alfie 0.7

Total $59.2 million

its awfully tough for Ottawa without moving Kuba, i mean we get under the cap but with 200K to spare. if we could move another million out we'd be OK i'm just not sure who you could move that wouldnt start making pretty sigificant changes to the team.
next year is no problem as Kovalev and some buyouts come off the books. Kuba could then be moved as Cowen, Weicoch and/or Runblad will be ready on D.
The whole point of this move for Ottawa would be to win now and moving Kuba to get the other 2 weakens our d too much unless Cowen is 100% ready to step in and play 20 minutes a game. ( maybe by the end of the year but even then not so sure)

would be fun to see anyway. i think that lineup is as good as any in the league.
Really good top 6 and a 3rd line that no one will enjoy playing against i'd love to see them together for the playoffs.
very big, very mobile D (not especially physical but big), great PP presence, great shutdown presence.
A legit #1 goalie and a good back up.

Not sure what more we would want in ottawa.

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Old
07-16-2010, 12:19 PM
  #50
Oates2Neely
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondercarrot View Post
I would try to make this happen from an ottawa perspective.
Could be one of those rare times you can get a talent upgrade at a couple of key spots without sacrificing much of the future.
I could see how Boston takes the opportunity to move Thomas with Savard knowing they probably wont get what Savard is worth so why not move the large unwanted contract with him as a condition.
I think you still get a decent young player and prospect or pick as well.

Thomas and Savard
for
Leclair, Lee and Foligno and maybe a pick.

Boston gets Lee and Foligno and saves $3.3 million in salary.
If they option Leclair to the minors they save a total of $7.1 million and still get to young NHL players and maybe the pick.

For Ottawa they end up about $1.5 million over the cap, if they could move Kelly in a separate deal then:

Regin 1.5 - Spezza 7 - Alfie 4.6
Michalek 4.3 - Savard 4 - Kovalev 5.0
Ruutu 1.3 - Fisher 4.2 - Neil 2.0
Shannon 0.62 - Smith 0.6 - Winchester 0.750

Phillips 3.5 - Gonchar 5.5
Kuba 3.7 - Karlsson 1.3
Carkner 0.7 -Cowen 1.1/ Campoli

Thomas 5.0
Elliot 0.850

Emery 0.5, Cheech 0.6, Alfie 0.7

Total $59.2 million

its awfully tough for Ottawa without moving Kuba, i mean we get under the cap but with 200K to spare. if we could move another million out we'd be OK i'm just not sure who you could move that wouldnt start making pretty sigificant changes to the team.
next year is no problem as Kovalev and some buyouts come off the books. Kuba could then be moved as Cowen, Weicoch and/or Runblad will be ready on D.
The whole point of this move for Ottawa would be to win now and moving Kuba to get the other 2 weakens our d too much unless Cowen is 100% ready to step in and play 20 minutes a game. ( maybe by the end of the year but even then not so sure)

would be fun to see anyway. i think that lineup is as good as any in the league.
Really good top 6 and a 3rd line that no one will enjoy playing against i'd love to see them together for the playoffs.
very big, very mobile D (not especially physical but big), great PP presence, great shutdown presence.
A legit #1 goalie and a good back up.

Not sure what more we would want in ottawa.
Take Leclaire out of the equation & i'd make that deal. Ottawa can send Leclaire to Bingh..we have no use for him in Boston especially at that cap hit

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