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MLD 2010 Mickey Ion 1st round: #2 Brooklyn Americans vs. #7 Charlotte Clippers

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Old
07-15-2010, 09:11 PM
  #1
VanIslander
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MLD 2010 Mickey Ion 1st round: #2 Brooklyn Americans vs. #7 Charlotte Clippers

Mickey Ion Quarterfinal Round


Brooklyn Americans

coaches Rudy Pilous & Larry Robinson

Dennis Hextall (A) - Vladimir Zabrodsky - Eddie Wiseman
Dubbie Kerr - Dutch Reibel - Todd Bertuzzi
Jay Pandolfo - Ron Sutter (C) - Rich Preston
Steamer Maxwell - Charlie Sands - Keith Crowder
Sergei Brylin, Jimmy Herberts

Normand Rochefort - Dick Redmond
Rick Green (A) - Fredrick Olausson
Dave Lewis - Walter Smaill

Miikka Kiprusoff
Dan Bouchard


vs.


Charlotte Clippers

coach Ivan Hlinka

Alex Tanguay - Pavol Dmitra - Viktor Shalimov
Tom Hooper - Jason Spezza - Rick Kehoe
Stanislav Konopasek - Ryan Kesler - Ray Sheppard
Darryl Sutter (C) - Larry Patey - Tommy Williams
Willi Plett, Bohuslav Stastny

Darryl Sydor - Mattias Ohlund (A)
Doug Jarrett (A) - Steve Chiasson
Risto Siltanen - Joe Cooper
Lasse Bjorn

Sean Burke
Arturs Irbe


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07-16-2010, 03:54 PM
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DaveG
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Initial thoughts:

interesting. Pavol Demitra goes up against the team of one of his biggest defenders to this point in the MLD. At first glance this looks like a typical offense vs defense showdown.

Two modern goalies that have been a bit maligned here on HF as well in Kipper and Burke. Kipper has the Vezina and a voting edge, but Burke isn't too shabby himself with 3rd, 4th and 5th place AS finishes and 4th and 12th place Hart finishes to his credit. And this was in Phoenix, not exactly one of the more exposed markets in the league. His best finish in Hart/All Star/Vezina voting with the Coyotes was in fact after the team had lost its only other star power in Roeneck (free agency) and Tkachuk (traded). Having Irbe as backup with his history of backstopping underdog teams well beyond what many thought they were capable of in the playoffs can only help even the odds a bit.

I'll be interested to see how TDMM critiques my lineup after his analysis in the assassination thread.

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07-16-2010, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Initial thoughts:

interesting. Pavol Demitra goes up against the team of one of his biggest defenders to this point in the MLD. At first glance this looks like a typical offense vs defense showdown.

Two modern goalies that have been a bit maligned here on HF as well in Kipper and Burke. Kipper has the Vezina and a voting edge, but Burke isn't too shabby himself with 3rd, 4th and 5th place AS finishes and 4th and 12th place Hart finishes to his credit. And this was in Phoenix, not exactly one of the more exposed markets in the league. His best finish in Hart/All Star/Vezina voting with the Coyotes was in fact after the team had lost its only other star power in Roeneck (free agency) and Tkachuk (traded). Having Irbe as backup with his history of backstopping underdog teams well beyond what many thought they were capable of in the playoffs can only help even the odds a bit.

I'll be interested to see how TDMM critiques my lineup after his analysis in the assassination thread.
The year Burke finished 4th in All Star voting, he had coach Gretzky pimping him out heavily in the media, so it really isn't the case that he was an "under the radar" guy playing in Phoenix. People listen to the Great One.

(Not saying the vote wasn't deserved, but I don't think it's accurate to say he was really flying under the radar, either).

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07-16-2010, 05:58 PM
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Here's our lineup, complete with profiles and special teams:


PP1: Dubbie Kerr - Vladimir Zabrodsky - Todd Bertuzzi - Dick Redmond - Fredrick Olausson
PP2: Keith Crowder - Dutch Reibel - Eddie Wiseman - Steamer Maxwell - Walter Smaill

PK1: Ron Sutter - Jay Pandolfo - Normand Rochefort - Rick Green
PK2: Charlie Sands - Rich Preston - Dave Lewis - Walter Smaill

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07-16-2010, 06:19 PM
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I'm going to post the Vezina and Hart records of Kiprusoff and several goalies who are regular backups in the ATD, just to show how he compares:

Miikka Kiprusoff
Vezina record: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 8th, 8th
Hart record: 3rd, 4th
-Cup finalist in 2004 (a Cinderella run)

Tom Barasso
Vezina Record: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 9th
Hart Record: 6th, 8th, 9th
-Stanley Cups in 1992 and 1993

John Vanbiesbrouck (considered one of the better ATD backups!)
Vezina Record: 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 6th, 6th, 7th, 7th
Hart Record: 3rd, 5th
-Cup finalist in 1996 (a Cinderella run)

Mike Richter
Vezina Record: 3rd*, 6th, 6th, 7th, 9th
Hart Record: 10th
*Behind Belfour and Roy
-Stanley Cup in 1994. World Cup MVP in 1996.

Ron Hextall
Vezina Record: 1st, 5th, 10th, 12th, 14th,
Hart Record: 10th
-Conn Smythe Trophy in a losing cause

I'm not saying that Kipper would be one of the better backups in the ATD, but I think he's accomplished enough already to deserve to be a regular backup.

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Old
07-16-2010, 06:26 PM
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I see two keys for a Brooklyn win:

1) Charlotte lacks a real shutdown line, a line that can take faceoffs in the defensive zone. Charlotte's scoring lines, like Brooklyn's, are nothing special defensively. But Charlotte's third line isn't anything special defensively past Kesler (and Sheppard was known as a lazy defensive player).

Brooklyn has 2 strong scoring lines (the 2nd line is arguably as strong as the first), and Charlotte could be in trouble when they are faced with a faceoff in their own zone.

2) Charlotte's scoring lines are a bit lacking in the physicality department.

Brooklyn has a very physical defenseman on every pairing (Rochefort, Green, Lewis), who will look to punish Charlotte's forwards without much retribution. At minimum, they should be able to win most of the battles in the corners against Charlotte's top lines. Edit: There are reports of Smaill playing rough too.


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07-16-2010, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
The year Burke finished 4th in All Star voting, he had coach Gretzky pimping him out heavily in the media, so it really isn't the case that he was an "under the radar" guy playing in Phoenix. People listen to the Great One.

(Not saying the vote wasn't deserved, but I don't think it's accurate to say he was really flying under the radar, either).
That makes a lot more sense. I was for the most part buried in lab work that year so aside from the Canes I wasn't focusing on too much of anything outside of classes.





I'll be running with the offensive lineup to start things out. Including special teams here's how things shake out.

Alex Tanguay - Pavol Demitra - Viktor Shalimov
Tom Hooper - Jason Spezza - Rick Kehoe
Stanislav Konopasek - Ryan Kesler - Ray Sheppard
Darryl Sutter - Larry Patey - Tommy Williams

Darryl Sydor - Mattias Ohlund
Doug Jarrett - Steve Chiasson
Risto Siltanen - Joe Cooper

Sean Burke
Arturs Irbe

Extras:
F Willi Plett, F Bohuslav Stastny, D Lasse Bjorn

PP1:
Alex Tanguay - Pavol Demitra - Viktor Shalimov
Ryan Kesler - Steve Chiasson

PP2:
Tom Hooper - Jason Spezza - Ray Sheppard
Darryl Sydor - Risto Siltanen

PK1:
Ryan Kesler - Tommy Williams
Darryl Sydor - Mattias Ohlund

PK2:
Tom Hooper - Larry Patey
Doug Jarrett - Joe Cooper

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Old
07-16-2010, 09:03 PM
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Clippers Keys To Victory:

1) Transition: While the Americans have a lineup that is solid throughout if not outright physically intimidating, the Clippers defense isn't exactly a bunch of wilting flowers in their own right. With the combination of size and puck moving skills on the back end the key is going to be in taking advantage of the superior speed the Clippers wingers and make the most of any odd man rushes available.

2) The Special Teams War: Kesler and Patey are both solid defensive centermen with good Selke voting histories backing that up (albeit a short one in Keslers part). With the help of two-way players like Hooper and Williams they will have to shut down the Brooklyn powerplay for the Clippers to take advantage of their own power play opportunities. With the creativity available up front and some solid puck movers on the blueline the powerplay should be deadly. Don't underrate the presence of Ohlund, Chiasson and Siltanen from a scoring point either, all 3 have 4 or more seasons of 10+ goals from the blueline. If Charlotte can win the special teams war they may be able to steal a few that they otherwise may not have been able to.

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07-16-2010, 09:35 PM
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I keep seeing it spelled "Dmitra" around here. Is that the "correct" way of spelling it that I've just never seen?

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07-16-2010, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I keep seeing it spelled "Dmitra" around here. Is that the "correct" way of spelling it that I've just never seen?
It was a typo on my part the first time since I tend to spell things phonetically, might as well stick with it.

No seriously though, I have it fixed in the post two above yours.

And what's the deal with phonetically not being spelled phonetically?

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07-17-2010, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Clippers Keys To Victory:

2) The Special Teams War: Kesler and Patey are both solid defensive centermen with good Selke voting histories backing that up (albeit a short one in Keslers part). With the help of two-way players like Hooper and Williams they will have to shut down the Brooklyn powerplay for the Clippers to take advantage of their own power play opportunities. With the creativity available up front and some solid puck movers on the blueline the powerplay should be deadly. Don't underrate the presence of Ohlund, Chiasson and Siltanen from a scoring point either, all 3 have 4 or more seasons of 10+ goals from the blueline. If Charlotte can win the special teams war they may be able to steal a few that they otherwise may not have been able to.
I'm pretty sure Brooklyn has better special teams. I'm almost positive Brooklyn has better first units.

PKing forwards:

1) Pandolfo was every bit as good a penalty killer as John Madden. He played on Madden's side on every 5-on-4 for almost a decade, going to 3 finals in 4 years and winning 2 Cups along the way. He was even was the only forward on the second wave of a 5 on 3 PK, despite being a natural winger. All this over all the other defensive and two-way forwards that NJ produced over the years.

I'm pretty sure that Pandolfo is better defensively than several LWs who are regular 3rd liners in the main draft. He isn't picked in the main draft, because he's an offensive black hole, and those guys can actually contribute in that area.

2) Sutter has a pretty good Selke record himself. Combined with his faceoff ability, I think he'll very effective on the PK next to Pandolfo.

3) Preston was also a noted penalty killer who finished as high as 4th in Selke voting behind some brutal competition (Bob Gainey, Craig Ramsey, Don Luce). Sands' bio talks about what a good checker he was.

Overall, Brooklyn's PKing forwards are very strong and I don't see how they can be considered weaker than their Charlotte counterparts.

PKing defensemen


-Rochefort and Green are two of the biggest and meanest crease-clearing defensemen in the MLD. Lewis is a giant, as well. This is a big advantage over Charlotte. Ohlund is okay. Sydor? I remember him best as Zubov's partner in puckmoving in Dallas. Hatcher and an undrafted got all the tough PK assignments.

I think this is a big edge for Brooklyn, especially on the first unit.

PP pointmen
-Brooklyn has Dick Redmond, one of the better PP QBs in the MLD. Next to him is Fredrick Olausson, a right handed shot and a fine PP player himself (he once led all NHL defensemen in PP points). Smaill-Maxwell aren't as strong, but when you have pointmen as good as Redmond and Olausson who aren't playing any PK minutes, I think giving them 1:30 of a 2:00 PP is very realistic.

-Without doing a detailed analysis of Charlotte's pointmen, it looks like Brooklyn has the edge at first glance. Chiasson only broke 50 points once, despite spending the first half of his career in a high-scoring league.

PP net presences
-Brooklyn's PP has a guy on each unit who was very good at cleaning up garbage around the net. Todd Bertuzzi finished 14th, 6th, and 1st in PP goals in consecutive years. Keith Crowder finished 5th and 9th in PP goals (too lazy to check if he has any 11-20 finishes ).

-Who is going to stand in front of the net on Charlotte's PP? Who is going to take punishment from the likes of Rochefort, Green, Lewis, and Smaill to screen Kiprusoff on a Charlotte PP?


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Old
07-17-2010, 04:27 AM
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Rochefort and Green are two of the biggest and meanest crease-clearing defensemen in the MLD. Lewis is a giant, as well. This is a big advantage over Charlotte.
Nothing I read in those scouting reports I quoted indicated he was mean. He was like a carbon copy of Regehr - physical, strong, but doesn't go out there trying to kill you either.

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07-17-2010, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I'm pretty sure Brooklyn has better special teams. I'm almost positive Brooklyn has better first units.

PKing forwards:

1) Pandolfo was every bit as good a penalty killer as John Madden. He played on Madden's side on every 5-on-4 for almost a decade, going to 3 finals in 4 years and winning 2 Cups along the way. He was even was the only forward on the second wave of a 5 on 3 PK, despite being a natural winger. All this over all the other defensive and two-way forwards that NJ produced over the years.

I'm pretty sure that Pandolfo is better defensively than several LWs who are regular 3rd liners in the main draft. He isn't picked in the main draft, because he's an offensive black hole, and those guys can actually contribute in that area.

2) Sutter has a pretty good Selke record himself. Combined with his faceoff ability, I think he'll very effective on the PK next to Pandolfo.

3) Preston was also a noted penalty killer who finished as high as 4th in Selke voting behind some brutal competition (Bob Gainey, Craig Ramsey, Don Luce). Sands' bio talks about what a good checker he was.

Overall, Brooklyn's PKing forwards are very strong and I don't see how they can be considered weaker than their Charlotte counterparts.

PKing defensemen


-Rochefort and Green are two of the biggest and meanest crease-clearing defensemen in the MLD. Lewis is a giant, as well. This is a big advantage over Charlotte. Ohlund is okay. Sydor? I remember him best as Zubov's partner in puckmoving in Dallas. Hatcher and an undrafted got all the tough PK assignments.

I think this is a big edge for Brooklyn, especially on the first unit.

PP pointmen
-Brooklyn has Dick Redmond, one of the better PP QBs in the MLD. Next to him is Fredrick Olausson, a right handed shot and a fine PP player himself (he once led all NHL defensemen in PP points). Smaill-Maxwell aren't as strong, but when you have pointmen as good as Redmond and Olausson who aren't playing any PK minutes, I think giving them 1:30 of a 2:00 PP is very realistic.

-Without doing a detailed analysis of Charlotte's pointmen, it looks like Brooklyn has the edge at first glance. Chiasson only broke 50 points once, despite spending the first half of his career in a high-scoring league.

PP net presences
-Brooklyn's PP has a guy on each unit who was very good at cleaning up garbage around the net. Todd Bertuzzi finished 14th, 6th, and 1st in PP goals in consecutive years. Keith Crowder finished 5th and 9th in PP goals (too lazy to check if he has any 11-20 finishes ).

-Who is going to stand in front of the net on Charlotte's PP? Who is going to take punishment from the likes of Rochefort, Green, Lewis, and Smaill to screen Kiprusoff on a Charlotte PP?
Chiasson also broke 60 that season as well.
And while yes, that's his only season over 60, he was very consistent in his production on the back end even when the offensive era was done. 3 more seasons over 40 points, 4 more seasons over 30, and of the only two seasons where he didn't break 30 until his last season both were over the 30 point pace in terms of points per game with one being over the 40 point pace. Elite? hardly, but dangerous. Even with taking into account the production league wide in 92-93, which was his career season, he still is a very consistent producer. His playoff production actually outpaces his regular season production at .555 PPG compared to .529. Not a huge but he was definitely a big game player.

Sydor likewise a very consistent 30-40+ point producer in a low scoring era. His post season production (.361) is slightly lower then his regular season production (.392) but not so much as to be a completely unexpected drop. Ohlund has also spent much of his career as a 30+ point producer both in the current era and in the dead puck era with Vancouver. And like Chiasson he's a player that outpaces his regular season production (.403 PPG) with his post season production (.538 PPG), in this case by a rather significant margin.

Interestingly enough Redmond and Chiasson's numbers with adjusted stats are nearly identical. .553PPG for Redmond, .557 for Chiasson.

I'd think that Hooper would have no problem putting himself in front of the net on the powerplay, he's noted as being a rather tencious player in addition to his skill. Kesler I doubt would have much of a problem with rotating down on the PP since he's a natural centerman and Demitra, while being a clean player, isn't exactly noted as being overly soft from what I recall.

Demitra was just behind the top 5 in PPGs in 98-99 (14, top 5 had 15) before the arival of Tkachuk and a couple more seasons of his prime over 10. Kesler likewise had 12 this year when the top 3 in PPGs had 14 and scored 10 in 08-09. Too lazy to check and see just how many were in front of Demitra and Kesler those two seasons.


I won't disagree with your PK assessment too much. I've seen first hand for years how much Pandolfo can frustrate the crap out of a PP.

Patey and Preston played against much of the same competition, Patey had 3rd and 6th place finishes in the Selke votes.

Hooper played both wing and cover point at times which is a testament to his strong two-way play. Williams likewise is noted as a solid two-way player, despite playing on some absolutely terrible teams such as the expansion Caps.

There's also Darryl Sutter available and noted Czechoslovakian two-way player Bohuslav Stastny can be added to the roster in case he's needed.


Last edited by DaveG: 07-17-2010 at 08:39 AM.
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Old
07-17-2010, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
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Nothing I read in those scouting reports I quoted indicated he was mean. He was like a carbon copy of Regehr - physical, strong, but doesn't go out there trying to kill you either.
Which one is "he"? I have quotes in both Rochefort's and Green's profiles about their physical play:

Normand Rochefort:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Pelletier
Rochefort was a bone crunching bodychecker. Though he took few penalties, he was one of the most feared physical players of his time. He loved to rattle a player along the boards and at times would go out of his way for an open ice hit. He was also a menace in front of his own net, punishing any opposition forward who dared to enter the slot. He was also a premier shot blocker.
Rick Green:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Canadiens Historical Website
Big, strong and with enough of a mean streak to make his opponents hesitate before invading his territory, Rick Green spent 15 years patrolling the blue line with four NHL teams, enjoying the best years of his career with the Montreal Canadiens.

Green broke into the NHL with the Washington Capitals, who chose him first overall in the 1976 Amateur Draft. A tough competitor who specialized in clearing the Capitals’ goalmouth of opposing players

....

For the next seven years, the 6-foot-3, 220-pounder flattened opposing forwards in front of the net, dug for the puck along the boards and battled in the corners. His point totals diminished as Green concentrated on his duties as a stay-at-home defenseman but his utility to the team did not.

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07-17-2010, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Nothing I read in those scouting reports I quoted indicated he was mean. He was like a carbon copy of Regehr - physical, strong, but doesn't go out there trying to kill you either.
How much do you watch Regehr play? From what I have seen, he's absolutely vicious.

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07-17-2010, 12:49 PM
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Interestingly enough Redmond and Chiasson's numbers with adjusted stats are nearly identical. .553PPG for Redmond, .557 for Chiasson.
I think Redmond had a more consistent peak, but they probably aren't as far off as I initially thought.

Does Kesler play the point in Vancouver or did you just think he'd be good there?

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07-17-2010, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think Redmond had a more consistent peak, but they probably aren't as far off as I initially thought.

Does Kesler play the point in Vancouver or did you just think he'd be good there?
Personal preference. I see him playing a point role similar to what Staal did in 06 for the Canes.

I have some other solid point options including Hooper if something needs changed.


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07-17-2010, 04:02 PM
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Sydor likewise a very consistent 30-40+ point producer in a low scoring era. His post season production (.361) is slightly lower then his regular season production (.392) but not so much as to be a completely unexpected drop.
A quick note on this - you're desrcibing an 8% drop in production. this is actually very good. The average player will have a 15% drop so if you beat that, you're doing pretty good. Especially over such a large sample size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Which one is "he"? I have quotes in both Rochefort's and Green's profiles about their physical play:

Normand Rochefort:

Rick Green:
I was referring to Rochefort.

That's one quote, but overall the general impression I got was that he was your usual defensive stalwart with a lot of physicality. I don't get the "meanness" vibe. Read the scouting reports on Phil Russell - I get a meanness vibe reading those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
How much do you watch Regehr play? From what I have seen, he's absolutely vicious.
Probably not as often as you. But my impression is that he takes out his man strongly, efficiently, and authoritatively, but vicious is not a word I'd personally use to describe him.

However, I'm not going to argue with that too much

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07-23-2010, 02:10 PM
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Brooklyn Americas defeat Charlotte Clippers in 5 games.

1st Star - Vladimir Zadbrodsky
2rd Star - Mikka Kiprusoff
3rd Star - Dubbie Kerr ad Dennis Hextall

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07-23-2010, 02:46 PM
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Congrats TDMM

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07-23-2010, 02:52 PM
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Congrats TDMM
Thanks. Thanks also for the great and civil discussion in the series.

Hope to see you in ATDs in the future.

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07-23-2010, 03:23 PM
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Thanks. Thanks also for the great and civil discussion in the series.

Hope to see you in ATDs in the future.
I plan on it. It was definitely a fun experience and I had plenty of chances to research guys that I knew little of before I started. Hopefully I can build a more well-rounded team next time rather then one so reliant on speed and offensive firepower.

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