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Old
07-17-2010, 11:19 PM
  #51
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I'm hoping for better but I'll have my own opinion by Christmas. The good mid-talent guys have to play a all round game.
Well, Chicago did teach Versteeg how to be responsible in his own end. He and Byfuglien were put with Madden for most of the season on line 3 (Bolland was injured) and forced to learn a checking and forecheck role playing against the oppositions top lines. ... It worked they were both significantly better all around players by playoff time.

That said at least once a game it seems Versteeg will find himself at his own blue line with 5 guys between himself and the oppositions net and seemingly with blinders on he will try to beat all 5 guys himself. ... Lead to a lot of pretty ugly odd man breaks against the hawks as well as a few beautiful high light reel goals.

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Old
07-17-2010, 11:29 PM
  #52
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People wonder why Leafs fans have such a ridiculously bad reputation on these boards?

Example #12312345123412
get OVER yourself .. he was obviously being sarcastic.

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07-17-2010, 11:34 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by brevard View Post
Well, Chicago did teach Versteeg how to be responsible in his own end. He and Byfuglien were put with Madden for most of the season on line 3 (Bolland was injured) and forced to learn a checking and forecheck role playing against the oppositions top lines. ... It worked they were both significantly better all around players by playoff time.

That said at least once a game it seems Versteeg will find himself at his own blue line with 5 guys between himself and the oppositions net and seemingly with blinders on he will try to beat all 5 guys himself. ... Lead to a lot of pretty ugly odd man breaks against the hawks as well as a few beautiful high light reel goals.
Honestly I'll take that over Stalberg, he's as soft as they come.

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07-17-2010, 11:54 PM
  #54
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Honestly I'll take that over Stalberg, he's as soft as they come.
Lets wait and see how he (Stalberg) looks come playoff time next year.
Maybe it's just years of piece of **** head coaches combined with HFL (which Hawk fans know means hawk for life) assistants but I have become a huge Quenneville fan.
Note that line Madden, Versteeg and Byfuglien. Versteeg having never been asked to be defensively responsible and Byfuglien playing his 1st year as a PF having no clue of where to be and when to be there.
Coach Q sent em out night after night to play the oppositions top lines. It freed up our (in season) top 6 to score but it was ugly sometimes. You could often see Haviland, Torchetti or Q along with Madden explaning to them what they were doing.

As the year went on both became much better but notice when playoff time came the teaching stopped and winning was the objective. I do not think even 2 of the 3 were ever on the ice together during the entire playoff run.
Many people here claimed Versteeg and Byfuglien lacked value as the trade period around the draft approached. They pointed to middling offensive numbers. it's not all about scoring goals it's about doing what you have to to end up with 1 more than the other team.

I loved it. It was a young team the season was about teaching and preparation to get ready for the post season.
And HELL IT WORKED!!

You are gonna like Versteeg. You hope he never stops making those mistakes. Just that he makes them less often. To stop trying goofy **** would be to stunt his creativity.
As for Stalberg? If everyone is healthy, based on what you said I would not be surprised to see Q put him on line 3 or 4 and have him learn to round his game. Again if he screws up it's all good as long as he learns from it.
Maybe then by March or April he is ready to join Hossa and Sharp?

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Old
03-14-2011, 11:27 PM
  #55
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How do you like grabovski now?

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03-14-2011, 11:47 PM
  #56
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Maybe for a late 1st?

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Old
03-15-2011, 12:04 AM
  #57
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holy ****, everyone was treating him like he was the scum of the earth... he probably read it all and made himself better for it. not likely, but he is a great 1b/2 center and would easily "get a 1st from calgary" and not clear waivers with that "horrible contract"

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Old
03-15-2011, 12:11 AM
  #58
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Moral of the story? Don't sell low on players with potential.

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03-15-2011, 12:18 AM
  #59
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Why bump a thread like this when it's a Leafs fan that starts it with leafs fans bashing him and then bring it up again when he does do well.

Then next season if he struggles, someone else will bump this thread saying "my god I can't believe ppl liked this kid, we should have waived him why he had value"

Leafs fans are their own worst enemies.

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Old
03-15-2011, 12:23 AM
  #60
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Why bump a thread like this when it's a Leafs fan that starts it with leafs fans bashing him and then bring it up again when he does do well.

Then next season if he struggles, someone else will bump this thread saying "my god I can't believe ppl liked this kid, we should have waived him why he had value"

Leafs fans are their own worst enemies.
There was a clear division among Leaf fans on what they thought of Grabovski. So yeah, they really can be their own worst enemies at times.

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Old
03-15-2011, 12:39 AM
  #61
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You will be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for him.

Overpaid, heartless and a head case
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Originally Posted by Pukboy5kroner View Post
Rusty Olesz for Grabo.

It's hard to think of many players I'd be hesitant to see Rusty traded for, but Grabovski comes close enough to think it might be possible.
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Grabo would go unclaimed on waivers. Right now his value is negative considering his 2.9 hit.
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Worth a 3rd round pick if the Leafs are willing to take back around 1.5 million in a bad deal in return. Otherwise? ... 4th or 5th round pick.


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Old
03-15-2011, 02:18 AM
  #62
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Woah...good job I just joined

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Old
03-15-2011, 03:32 AM
  #63
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Anyone else agree, a late first rounder, fair and square, we need another late first to work are way up in the draft

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Old
03-16-2011, 08:57 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Seguins Dragon View Post


You will be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for him.

Overpaid, heartless and a head case
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Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
This. He might have value to the Leafs given their uncertainty at the Center position, but I'd bet money that he would clear waivers at his salary.
These are great now..

Notice the same Bruins fans who trash everything Leaf related. Funny that if you compare Grabo with golden gloves Krejci they are almost identical statistically. (the HF boards measuring stick)
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Originally Posted by RoyalFlesh View Post
Anyone else agree, a late first rounder, fair and square, we need another late first to work are way up in the draft
On pace with Kessel, I wouldn't let him go for anything less then two 1sts n a 2nd.

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Old
03-16-2011, 09:08 AM
  #65
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Grabovski now basically falls into the same category as Kulemin, MacArthur, Kessel, and Schenn, their value in trade is low compared to their value to the leafs. The only way these players would be moved, (short of new disagreements or w/e) is in a deal for a greater player.
Ex Schenn + Grabovski + 1st 11 for Weber. Obviously Nashville wouldnt do this, but this would be the scope of a deal around those players.

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Old
03-16-2011, 09:25 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by TheFisherKing View Post
Grabovski now basically falls into the same category as Kulemin, MacArthur, Kessel, and Schenn, their value in trade is low compared to their value to the leafs. The only way these players would be moved, (short of new disagreements or w/e) is in a deal for a greater player.
Ex Schenn + Grabovski + 1st 11 for Weber. Obviously Nashville wouldnt do this, but this would be the scope of a deal around those players.
Grabovski, Kulemin and MacArthur also fall into a different category. The potential 'one season wonder' category (much like Penner last year). People (though mostly on HF) will wait until they put up similar numbers next year before they agree to them having higher value.

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Old
03-16-2011, 09:37 AM
  #67
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Grabovski, Kulemin and MacArthur also fall into a different category. The potential 'one season wonder' category (much like Penner last year). People (though mostly on HF) will wait until they put up similar numbers next year before they agree to them having higher value.
are they like the people who exercized not even a modicum of caution and said things like

"can't play defense"

"headcase"

"heartless"

and equated his value as "would easily go through waivers"

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03-16-2011, 09:42 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Akonite View Post
Grabovski, Kulemin and MacArthur also fall into a different category. The potential 'one season wonder' category (much like Penner last year). People (though mostly on HF) will wait until they put up similar numbers next year before they agree to them having higher value.
I'll argue that Grabovski is not a one hit wonder, he has always produced.

Rookie Season
20 Goals, 28 Assists, 48 Points, -8, (78 games) (0.61 PPG)

Sophomore Season
10 Goals, 25 Assists, 35 Points, +3, (59 games) (0.59 PPG)

This Season
27 Goals, 26 Assists, 53 Points, +13, (69 games) (0.76 PPG)


Although this season he has really improved his defensive game.

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Old
03-16-2011, 09:43 AM
  #69
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These are great now..

Notice the same Bruins fans who trash everything Leaf related. Funny that if you compare Grabo with golden gloves Krejci they are almost identical statistically. (the HF boards measuring stick)


On pace with Kessel, I wouldn't let him go for anything less then two 1sts n a 2nd.
HF boards measuring stick lol, so true... but obviously krejci is gangster and grabo is just a flashy 2nd line center, he needs to be moved to wing.

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03-16-2011, 09:46 AM
  #70
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I have to hand it to Grabs. He cleaned up his act and has made the most of his opportunity with the Leafs. There was no denying his talent level. The issue was his commitment level and maturity.

Anyways its about time the Leafs had a player with some talent. Too bad they can't draft em themselves.

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Old
03-16-2011, 09:50 AM
  #71
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are they like the people who exercized not even a modicum of caution and said things like

"can't play defense"

"headcase"

"heartless"

and equated his value as "would easily go through waivers"
due to his high salary.

2.9m for a 30 goal scorer is quite the bargain IMO.

But thats Bruins fans for ya. Pay Ryder and Lucic 4+ but call a guy at 2.9 mil who is outproducing both of them ``overpaid, heartless, headcase``.


He sure looked heartless when he skated wobbly legged to the bench, then didn`t miss a shift and dangled Seidenberg for the winning goal. (oh, and ``Seidneberg is a better overall d man then Kaberle, Kaberle is a defensive liability`` - every Bruins fan. Those who saw the Bruins game last night will get this.

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Old
03-16-2011, 09:54 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Akonite View Post
Grabovski, Kulemin and MacArthur also fall into a different category. The potential 'one season wonder' category (much like Penner last year). People (though mostly on HF) will wait until they put up similar numbers next year before they agree to them having higher value.
I think there is some grounds for the hesitation though. I think players like Grabovski currently fall into the "wouldn't trade him without a big return but wouldn't give a big return for him" category. There is reason to be hesitant of a player who has a career year at age 27. I mean, PA Parenteau has all of 6 less points, and I certainly don't consider him a proven player. Don't forget, Todd White had a huge year for Atlanta. I would be pretty upset if my team gave up a ton for Grabovksi right now. That doesn't mean he can't be for real. I also would be pissed off if I was a Toronto fan and they gave him up for less than a first round pick.

BTW, I disagree with Kulemin being lumped in with Grabovski. A couple of big differences between the two....Kulemin has always been known for playing a solid game in his own end and he is three years younger. An increase of 14 points from at age 24 doesn't raise nearly the red flags that an 18 point increase at age 27 does. I would give more for Kulemin than I would for Grabovski.

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Old
03-16-2011, 10:40 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Akonite View Post
Grabovski, Kulemin and MacArthur also fall into a different category. The potential 'one season wonder' category (much like Penner last year). People (though mostly on HF) will wait until they put up similar numbers next year before they agree to them having higher value.
Even more reason to hold on to em.

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Old
03-16-2011, 02:20 PM
  #74
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I think there is some grounds for the hesitation though. I think players like Grabovski currently fall into the "wouldn't trade him without a big return but wouldn't give a big return for him" category. There is reason to be hesitant of a player who has a career year at age 27. I mean, PA Parenteau has all of 6 less points, and I certainly don't consider him a proven player. Don't forget, Todd White had a huge year for Atlanta. I would be pretty upset if my team gave up a ton for Grabovksi right now. That doesn't mean he can't be for real. I also would be pissed off if I was a Toronto fan and they gave him up for less than a first round pick.

BTW, I disagree with Kulemin being lumped in with Grabovski. A couple of big differences between the two....Kulemin has always been known for playing a solid game in his own end and he is three years younger. An increase of 14 points from at age 24 doesn't raise nearly the red flags that an 18 point increase at age 27 does. I would give more for Kulemin than I would for Grabovski.
Very good post

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Old
03-16-2011, 02:32 PM
  #75
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This, this, this.

It would be a stupid idea to trade him, unless we could get something half-decent in return, which we won't. Not to mention, it can't hurt to have too many centermen who can play.

I'm sure most of the people who aren't Leaf fans, haven't watched enough of Grabovski to understand he's not as bad as people make him out to be.

Last year he decided to try a pass first mentality, instead of his usual selfish shoot first mentality. It didn't work as well for him.

I gotta admit, as the season went on, he seemed to gain better defensive awareness. He actually back checked, and skated hard if he was out of position. He was not a - player on the second worst team in the League.

After Grabo's first season, everyone loved him. He even won our hurt/heal game on the Leaf boards. He had one half-decent season, and everyone's written him off. I for one, have not.
You sexy beast.

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