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Old
07-17-2010, 01:09 PM
  #1
BaseballCoach
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The Emperor's New Clothes

OK, so who is going to be the first to say that all this talk of Price's wonderful new attitude, which he must have cultivated since the end of Game 4 of the ECQF when he got two unsportsmanlike penalties for acting like a 13-year old kid, is just wishful thinking?

LAPIERRE, he is showing a good attitude. "I didn't have a great season last year, now is not the time to be greedy", he is quoted as saying.

It would be nice to hear similar words from Carey.

If the Habs hockey people are even thinking of succombing to the "potential" mirage and paying Carey more than $1.5M x 2 years, they should be fired. The key to success in a cap world is paying as little as you can for the guys you get. When you have the leverage and a guy has no arbitration rights and the league is swimming in goalies with .910 save percentages, you SECURE THE BENEFIT. Price's QO is under $1M. We should NOT be giving him much more.

It was one thing to "overpay" Lapierre by a token $60k in recognition of his attitude, but to overpay Price MILLIONS? Subban forbid!

It might behoove Gauthier to start publicly talking about a PLAN B now. Might smarten those folks up.


Last edited by BaseballCoach: 07-17-2010 at 10:32 PM.
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07-17-2010, 01:10 PM
  #2
overlords
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I like where this thread is going.

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07-17-2010, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I like where this thread is going.
I hope eventually to see better cap management. To overpay when you need a partcular type of asset is one thing. To just overpay for non-essential assets and feel like a nice guy, that's not maximizing your chances. Overpay Begin, overpay Bouillon, overpay Smolinski, overpay Laraque, overpay Moen, overpay Andrei Kostitsyn, overpay Mara, overpay Auld.... we really have to stop doing this stuff. No one had a gun to our heads in any of those cases. AK46 had no arbitration rights even, just like Price now.

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07-17-2010, 01:20 PM
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Crimson Skorpion
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I know the irony when I say "why is everyone overpaid", but why is Lapierre overpaid? And by 60k? Dude, let it go. It's a good contract, it's only a year and it's not an overpayment, at all.

As for Carey, quit the bashing. I may have liked Halak too, but let the kid prove his worth. If he doesn't go to the media and say "Yeah I sucked last year, maybe I should be better", it doesn't mean he's not thinking it. If anyone knows anything about this guy, he's a very "keep it to myself" kind of guy. He knows he didn't have a good season, he knows he needs to step it up. But if people like you keep crapping on him, then it makes it that much harder.

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07-17-2010, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
I know the irony when I say "why is everyone overpaid", but why is Lapierre overpaid? And by 60k? Dude, let it go. It's a good contract, it's only a year and it's not an overpayment, at all.

As for Carey, quit the bashing. I may have liked Halak too, but let the kid prove his worth. If he doesn't go to the media and say "Yeah I sucked last year, maybe I should be better", it doesn't mean he's not thinking it. If anyone knows anything about this guy, he's a very "keep it to myself" kind of guy. He knows he didn't have a good season, he knows he needs to step it up. But if people like you keep crapping on him, then it makes it that much harder.
My frustration is more with the Habs than with Price. He can WANT more money, the Habs should not even be thinking of giving it to him, though!

I'm prepared to be patient with our goaltender(s); always have been actually. But I am losing patience with the mentality of overpaying when you don't have to and not getting out from under bad situations the cheapest way - surely there were alternatives to buying out BGL and surely there is something creative we could do with Hamrlik's contract at this time.

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07-17-2010, 01:41 PM
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Who said it's a case of money? My guess is that the issue is number of years, if there's any issue at all. There's a good chance neither side sees any sense of urgency to get a contract signed right now. It's pretty much a guarantee that Price is going to be here next year no matter what.

I think Price is probably trying to get a one-year deal while the Gauthier is trying to take advantage of two rough years to sign him for 3-4 years at a low amount. I'm not the world's biggest Carey Price fan, but I don't think there's any reason to criticize him for not having a deal done right now.

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07-17-2010, 01:53 PM
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I don't think Lapierre is 60K overpaid. I'd have said 50k. But I think 60k overpaid is pushing it a bit. I think you should be more reasonable then that Baseball Fan

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07-17-2010, 01:54 PM
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Crimson Skorpion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
My frustration is more with the Habs than with Price. He can WANT more money, the Habs should not even be thinking of giving it to him, though!

I'm prepared to be patient with our goaltender(s); always have been actually. But I am losing patience with the mentality of overpaying when you don't have to and not getting out from under bad situations the cheapest way - surely there were alternatives to buying out BGL and surely there is something creative we could do with Hamrlik's contract at this time.
Problem is, your patience has no worth in the Habs organization. They're not going to come onto these boards and say "Oh no guys, BaseballCoach is getting impatient! QUICK, sign him for little money and as few years as possible, or let him walk!"

Yeah, Auld will sure look good as our starter.

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07-17-2010, 01:56 PM
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Are you complaining that a guy is overpaid by 60k? Really?

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07-17-2010, 01:57 PM
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I'm going to assume this is satire.

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Old
07-17-2010, 02:14 PM
  #11
HarlemsFinest
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typically. you use the word overpayment in incriments of 500k or by the million. it's impossible to be overpaid 60k even on a sub-million dollar contract. that's soooooooo subjective. like are you the Mr.Cap, and people's salaraies have to fall on the exact dollar you think they are worth or it's overpayment? how about a bit of a realistic buffer. in this case +/- 200k is a fair margin before you can ***** about this contract without sounding like Sandy McVajayjay.


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Old
07-17-2010, 02:26 PM
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Yes, this better be a joke.

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Old
07-17-2010, 02:30 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by ThaDevilGirl View Post
Are you complaining that a guy is overpaid by 60k? Really?
Not at all. I NOTED that he was overpaid by $60k compared to his QO, but basically say "never mind". I WILL object to overpaying Price by millions, however.

And I object to the previous overpayments made to Bouillon, Begin, Moen, Laraque, Auld, AK46, Smolinski, and Mara.

These were far more than $60k each, IMO (I do know some have a thing for Moen, but I don't).

When I talk about looking for a Plan B, it is not just Auld, whom I don't have that much confidence in (hence my complaint that $1M is too much for him) but rather studying other options and making it known publicly.

This is assuming that Price's camp is being greedy in its demands. If this is not the case, then of course there is no need to negotiate that way. But every indication is that the Price camp wants big bucks. And the fact is, under the CBA as written, he hasn't earned them yet.

No freebies!

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07-17-2010, 02:31 PM
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HarlemsFinest
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yeah but it's so insignificant, even if you aren't personally bothered by 60k, it can't be defined overpayment, because it's well within the realm of sensibility, for everyone.

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07-17-2010, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Problem is, your patience has no worth in the Habs organization. They're not going to come onto these boards and say "Oh no guys, BaseballCoach is getting impatient! QUICK, sign him for little money and as few years as possible, or let him walk!"

Yeah, Auld will sure look good as our starter.

Price cannot walk. We gave him a QO, and have his rights. QO is around $900k, give or take. Does PG want to give him a BIT more, for a a good 2nd half to 07-08, and start to 08-09? OK, maybe $1.2M, even $1.5M x 2 years. But I am reading about scary numbers like 2 years $6M total. That's ridiculous. That's all I'm saying. Habs have the leverage, don't get screwed out of it!

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07-17-2010, 02:38 PM
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I hope Price gets a 5 year deal at over $3 million per year so you can do a slow burn for a very long time.

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07-17-2010, 02:39 PM
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There already is a Carey Price signing thread, why you deserve your own thread to whine about a contract that hasn't been signed yet and Lapierre's "60k" is beyond me. You're not that special.

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07-17-2010, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by HarlemsFinest View Post
yeah but it's so insignificant, even if you aren't personally bothered by 60k, it can't be defined overpayment, because it's well within the realm of sensibility, for everyone.

I'm NOT sensitive to it. Just noting that it is above the QO by that much. Perno himself noted it the other day. That's not the point, let's not get sidetracked. The point I am making is for the Habs to not give in to big demands from the Price camp, if they are being made as rumoured.

The Lapierre remark was not that important to my OP.

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07-17-2010, 02:41 PM
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price would be a jerk if he really thinks he deserves 3m a year at this stage. if that happens i'm a blues fan. jks

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07-17-2010, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Price cannot walk. We gave him a QO, and have his rights. QO is around $900k, give or take. Does PG want to give him a BIT more, for a a good 2nd half to 07-08, and start to 08-09? OK, maybe $1.2M, even $1.5M x 2 years. But I am reading about scary numbers like 2 years $6M total. That's ridiculous. That's all I'm saying. Habs have the leverage, don't get screwed out of it!
Your frustration isn't even based on facts! You assume that Price's agent is asking for more money, but for all we know it could be the length of the term they are discussing. I don't get the point if stirring the pot because of your frustration

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07-17-2010, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Next Best Thing View Post
There already is a Carey Price signing thread, why you deserve your own thread to whine about a contract that hasn't been signed yet and Lapierre's "60k" is beyond me. You're not that special.
My point was to talk about attitude. I LIKE Lapierre's attitude (and DON'T mind the $60k over QO), but I haven't SEEN or HEARD the new imporved attitude from Price that everyone says he has acquired. I only saw two unsportsmanlike penalties the last time he was on my TV screen.

I'm reacting to several reports that the Price camp is looking for big bucks and long term, from Hockey News to HIO to HB and elsewhere.

Sorry if was impressed with Lapierre's attitude this week and so far less than impressed with the Price camp.

Mods can merge the thread if they want.

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07-17-2010, 02:49 PM
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Price isn't signed = Price has a bad attitude and is demanding millions more than he's worth?

More like Baseball Coach = overpresumptuous r-tard

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07-17-2010, 02:53 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
but I haven't SEEN or HEARD the new imporved attitude from Price that everyone says he has acquired.

Maybe because you never SEE or HEAR him? The same way that just because something is in the media doesn't mean it's true; something that's NOT in the media doesn't mean it's NOT true. You say "everyone" says he has a better attitude? Then maybe he does. Just because Sportsnet and The Fourth Period don't have articles articulating a huge range of evidence to support it, doesn't mean the few people who HAVE claimed it's true are lying. Jesus man...

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07-17-2010, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeCammalleri View Post
Agreed. At the time, the signing was an amazing deal.

AK46 had ONE season of 20+ goals at the time, and NO arbitration rights. Look at what we signed Gorges and O'Byrne for the same summer.

Also compare to what Higgins got after TWO seasons of 20+ goals the summer before (2 x $1.7M).

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07-17-2010, 02:59 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
I hope eventually to see better cap management. To overpay when you need a partcular type of asset is one thing. To just overpay for non-essential assets and feel like a nice guy, that's not maximizing your chances. Overpay Begin, overpay Bouillon, overpay Smolinski, overpay Laraque, overpay Moen, overpay Andrei Kostitsyn, overpay Mara, overpay Auld.... we really have to stop doing this stuff. No one had a gun to our heads in any of those cases. AK46 had no arbitration rights even, just like Price now.
You would make a really bad agent because you wouldn't push to have more money.

You would make a really bad GM because you would be too cheap an nobody would sign in Montreal.

You are disconnected from reality. I mean, most of the guys you've mentioned did well for us. Begin and Bouillon were two honest player. The thing is, they had up and down season. That's why you can think they were overpaid. But at there best, they were far from overpaid. I mean, during those years, Jeff Finger got 3.5M per year...

Mara and Smolinsky...they signed for ONE season. They were vets who were there to fill the holes. Who cares if we overpay someone for a year WHEN WE HAVE THE CAP SPACE.

And Kostitsyn wasn't really overpaid at the time. He was breaking out. Turns out he wasn't able to continue on the same path, but it was one of those contract that you give based on potential. Who knows, maybe he'll play up to his salary this season.

And Auld overpaid? How so? One million man...what's the big deal?

It's really not that bad. I mean, when you ''overpay'' someone bellow 500K, it's no big deal. And don't forget that players in Montreal are paying more taxes than almost anywhere else in the league. I'm sure agents know that fact...

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