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The Emperor's New Clothes

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Old
07-17-2010, 04:02 PM
  #26
BaseballCoach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey View Post
Price isn't signed = Price has a bad attitude and is demanding millions more than he's worth?

More like Baseball Coach = overpresumptuous r-tard

If the sources that I chose to believe are incorrect, I will admit my error.

But if the Habs do go ahead and pay a guy coming off ELC with a QO of $900k anywhere from $2m-$3M per year, will I stll be a r-tard for bringing it up?

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Old
07-17-2010, 04:06 PM
  #27
LeMAD
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Price never had attitude problems.

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Old
07-17-2010, 04:17 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
You would make a really bad agent because you wouldn't push to have more money.

You would make a really bad GM because you would be too cheap an nobody would sign in Montreal.

You are disconnected from reality. I mean, most of the guys you've mentioned did well for us. Begin and Bouillon were two honest player. The thing is, they had up and down season. That's why you can think they were overpaid. But at there best, they were far from overpaid. I mean, during those years, Jeff Finger got 3.5M per year...

Mara and Smolinsky...they signed for ONE season. They were vets who were there to fill the holes. Who cares if we overpay someone for a year WHEN WE HAVE THE CAP SPACE.

And Kostitsyn wasn't really overpaid at the time. He was breaking out. Turns out he wasn't able to continue on the same path, but it was one of those contract that you give based on potential. Who knows, maybe he'll play up to his salary this season.

And Auld overpaid? How so? One million man...what's the big deal?

It's really not that bad. I mean, when you ''overpay'' someone bellow 500K, it's no big deal. And don't forget that players in Montreal are paying more taxes than almost anywhere else in the league. I'm sure agents know that fact...

It adds up.

If we pay Price in the neighbourhood of $1.2-$1.5M, and had we saved $500k on Moen, $1M on AK46, $500k on Laraque, and $400k on Auld, we would have the money for another impact forward or Top-3 defenceman.

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07-17-2010, 04:18 PM
  #29
Fel 96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Price never had attitude problems.
I have to disagree on this..


here's an example; 2010 playoffs:

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Old
07-17-2010, 04:20 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Price never had attitude problems.
This you claim, but everyone in the Habs organization from Gauthier to Martin to Cammalleri to Lapierre to Gill have said that his attitude and work ethic has improved greatly. If they are all saying this, there must have been some problem before then, no?

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07-17-2010, 04:28 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
If the sources that I chose to believe are incorrect, I will admit my error.

But if the Habs do go ahead and pay a guy coming off ELC with a QO of $900k anywhere from $2m-$3M per year, will I stll be a r-tard for bringing it up?
A Qualifying offer doesn't mean much you know. It's an automatic 10% raise you get because you've played many games and should get a better salary. It's like in real life...after X hours, you get a raise. But player never accept those offer because they are rarely high enough. It's just something to retain players rights.

For Lapierre, it was easy to accept. He was playing on the bottom line and had a rough season. He's a grinder with no potential.

But when you talk about a player with an important role, like Carey Price who will be our starting goaltender or Benoit Pouliot who will play on our top 2 lines, it's a different story. The agents have a bigger negotiating card...not the team. In those cases, the QO means nothing.

So be prepared to be angry because Price will not accept his QO...

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Old
07-17-2010, 04:44 PM
  #32
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So I'm guessing this type of goalie would bother you?


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Old
07-17-2010, 04:47 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
This you claim, but everyone in the Habs organization from Gauthier to Martin to Cammalleri to Lapierre to Gill have said that his attitude and work ethic has improved greatly. If they are all saying this, there must have been some problem before then, no?
Or they wanted people to shut up.

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Old
07-17-2010, 05:02 PM
  #34
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jack herer says the emporor wears no clothes. i didn't know he died in april . 5 days short of 4/20!

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Old
07-17-2010, 05:02 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
A Qualifying offer doesn't mean much you know. It's an automatic 10% raise you get because you've played many games and should get a better salary. It's like in real life...after X hours, you get a raise. But player never accept those offer because they are rarely high enough. It's just something to retain players rights.

For Lapierre, it was easy to accept. He was playing on the bottom line and had a rough season. He's a grinder with no potential.

But when you talk about a player with an important role, like Carey Price who will be our starting goaltender or Benoit Pouliot who will play on our top 2 lines, it's a different story. The agents have a bigger negotiating card...not the team. In those cases, the QO means nothing.

So be prepared to be angry because Price will not accept his QO...
Pouliot had arbitration rights. Very different case. Price only has an offer sheet as a weapon, and the market for goalies is very depressed salary wise. He isn't going to get an offer sheet for $3M.

At any rate, LAST YEAR, Pouliot proved more than Price.I'll be ok with Price getting Pouliot type money, even without the arbitration weapon in his arsenal.

But not Halak type money, if the whole reason for trading Halak was to save money.

May I remind folks, Halak got $2.75M for next year, and $3.5M the following year. The two UFA years do not count when looking at Price, unless we are talking about a 6 year deal.

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Old
07-17-2010, 05:12 PM
  #36
LeMAD
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
May I remind folks, Halak got $2.75M for next year, and $3.5M the following year. The two UFA years do not count when looking at Price, unless we are talking about a 6 year deal.
Halak got 3.75 per year, period. The only reason why his contract is backloaded is because the owners are broke. Price is worth $2,5M for 2 years.

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Old
07-17-2010, 05:19 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
The only reason why his contract is backloaded is because the owners are broke.
That's a load of crap. He was given a back-loaded contract because he's worth more money in his UFA years.

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Old
07-17-2010, 05:23 PM
  #38
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The biggest mistake was dealing Halak before locking in Price. That shows a bad handle on leverage.

However, if Price gets a $2-$3m deal, I won't complain. It's manageable and may be unwarranted, but I don't sign the checks.

As for the negotiations, it's probably not a case of Price feeling like he deserves that much, but his agent probably sees a window for him to get that much and is doing his job by trying to secure the most money for his client. ****** way to look at it, but as every player says, "it's a business."

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Old
07-17-2010, 05:34 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by DirtyJeeves View Post
if Price gets a $2-$3m deal, I won't complain.

Price had a good 07-08.

Dan Ellis had a good 07-08. In fact, Ellis led the league in save percentage at .924.

By 09-10 Price lost his #1 spot.

By 09-10 Ellis lost his #1 spot.

Both still played 30+ games last year. Ellis was 2.69 and .909. Price went 2.77 and .912 - virtually the same.

Ellis signed for 2 years x $1.5M and was UFA. Price should earn less. He is RFA and no arbitration.

Question: What about Price's potential?
Answer: when ACTUALIZED he can make more money.

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Old
07-17-2010, 05:37 PM
  #40
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Big deal. I think everyone's overreacting by thinking he will haul in that much, but in all honesty, why is it such a big deal? If it doesn't pan out, there are options to deal with it.

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Old
07-17-2010, 06:00 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Pouliot had arbitration rights. Very different case. Price only has an offer sheet as a weapon, and the market for goalies is very depressed salary wise. He isn't going to get an offer sheet for $3M.

At any rate, LAST YEAR, Pouliot proved more than Price.I'll be ok with Price getting Pouliot type money, even without the arbitration weapon in his arsenal.

But not Halak type money, if the whole reason for trading Halak was to save money.

May I remind folks, Halak got $2.75M for next year, and $3.5M the following year. The two UFA years do not count when looking at Price, unless we are talking about a 6 year deal.
So why it's the same situation all around the league? Price doesn't have the arbitration card in his deck, but he has two 20+ wins season, and three 0,900+ season. One bad year don't erase what you've earned in the past. That's what you need to keep in mind. His value may be less than it was a year ago, but he's still has to be considered a 20+ wins goaltender who has the potential to be a 30+ wins keeper.

Bottom line is he's worth over his QO, and he's worth over 1.5 M dollars...like it or not, it's the REALITY and it's how things work.

Think about Plekanec after his bad season...2.75 millions for a 39 points scorer? It wasn't really it...a part of the contract was for the player who got 69 points the year before. This season...bang, he's a 5 million dollar man.

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Old
07-17-2010, 06:24 PM
  #42
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OK, to back up my point, here's what an agent said about the value of Carey Price ;

Quote:
Au fait, combien vaut Carey Price? Là, tout de suite? Réponse de l'agent au bout du fil: «Je dirais quelque chose comme 2,3 millions pour deux saisons, peut-être 2,5 millions.»
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...8_section_POS1

2.3 to 2.5 per season for a two years contract. For a final time, forget the QO...

***As for the article, I hate Richard Labbé.

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Old
07-17-2010, 06:44 PM
  #43
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Give me a break. Citing that game (which I was at btw, so I so what happened between whistles for what it's worth) is such a ridiculous reason to think Price has attitude problems. First of all...he doesn't. And I'm not even going to say that cuz he called out Sergei, that is proof. It's this media storyline that he has attitude problems that has snowballed into this totally bs perception of him.

Why would I have ANY concern about his attitude when his teammates talks about how hard he works in practice. When he totally supported Jaro when he was essentially relegated to being the bad son. Please look up the career of Patrick Roy and tell me about attitude and success. Now I'm just sick of the offseason. I want him to (first get signed) and then shut everyone up and I suppose the only way to do that is by getting 82 shutouts...no 98 shutouts next year.

No one is even talking about Price's changed attitude, rather people are speculating on a previous, completely unfounded bad attitude. Man I hope he wears the right hat before training camp. If he succeeds in this town, with this kind of awful support from his "fanbase", they should award a whole new trophy for it.

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Old
07-17-2010, 06:52 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fel 96 View Post
I have to disagree on this..


here's an example; 2010 playoffs:
did you just start watching playoff hockey?

maybe he should have sent a thank you card to Semin instead.
That just made me like Price more. And of course the massive over reaction by the Caps homer crew. After watching the world cup, you'd think people would appreciate some examples of something like that rather than a man crying every 2 mins. BTW, did Claude Lemieux have an attitude problem? Oh and this...they probably should have benched him for the rest of his career:


sidenote: the end is an unintended example of lameness

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Old
07-17-2010, 07:00 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
did you just start watching playoff hockey?

maybe he should have sent a thank you card to Semin instead.
That just made me like Price more. And of course the massive over reaction by the Caps homer crew. After watching the world cup, you'd think people would appreciate some examples of something like that rather than a man crying every 2 mins. BTW, did Claude Lemieux have an attitude problem? Oh and this...they probably should have benched him for the rest of his career:


sidenote: the end is an unintended example of lameness
Did you just try and make your point of Price not having a bad attitude by putting up a video of Patrick Roy?

Really?

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Old
07-17-2010, 07:02 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
did you just start watching playoff hockey?
Lol, you ask me this for real?



PS: I couldn't find this video from another feed.

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Old
07-17-2010, 07:17 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Price had a good 07-08.

Dan Ellis had a good 07-08. In fact, Ellis led the league in save percentage at .924.

By 09-10 Price lost his #1 spot.

By 09-10 Ellis lost his #1 spot.

Both still played 30+ games last year. Ellis was 2.69 and .909. Price went 2.77 and .912 - virtually the same.

Ellis signed for 2 years x $1.5M and was UFA. Price should earn less. He is RFA and no arbitration.

Question: What about Price's potential?
Answer: when ACTUALIZED he can make more money.
bad reference..

Price > Ellis

If you are really thinking that Price = Ellis mean that there is a reason why you are not an NHL GM.

If can understand your point that you don't want us to overpaid price.. I understand...

But Price will and merit more than 1.5 M$...

Why? A number 1 in MONTREAL is AT LEAST 2 M$

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Old
07-17-2010, 07:31 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Did you just try and make your point of Price not having a bad attitude by putting up a video of Patrick Roy?

Really?
im not gonna claim i know what he meant, but i think he meant more that having a poor attitude doesnt stop someone from winning stanley cups.

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Old
07-17-2010, 07:45 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Price had a good 07-08.

Dan Ellis had a good 07-08. In fact, Ellis led the league in save percentage at .924.

By 09-10 Price lost his #1 spot.

By 09-10 Ellis lost his #1 spot.

Both still played 30+ games last year. Ellis was 2.69 and .909. Price went 2.77 and .912 - virtually the same.

Ellis signed for 2 years x $1.5M and was UFA. Price should earn less. He is RFA and no arbitration.

Question: What about Price's potential?
Answer: when ACTUALIZED he can make more money.
Really?

Price's team could barely score more than 2 goals in front of him at any givent night, sometimes not even. Why else do you think he "lost" his job, because Halak would just win games, nothing more nothing less. Price would be dominant during 55 minutes of the game and let in a fluke goal = automatic loss and everyone got on his back.

And this is besides the fact that Ellis is 30 years old, Give me a break man he was Halak's bakcup in the AHL.

Price >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ellis.

You're obviously frustrated, because your arguments are irrational, heck, Price hasn't even signed and you're already complaining about his contract, wow!!!

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Old
07-17-2010, 08:41 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Fel 96 View Post
I have to disagree on this..


here's an example; 2010 playoffs:
Doug Gilmour in the Carolina series says hi. Does he also have a bad attitude for taking a bad penalty? I just saw two passionate players who wanted to win soo badly. I'll take those type players on my team any day of the week then a player who floats through and cares less. It's that attitude that got him multiple MVPs, gold medals and championships. He can play on my team any time!

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