Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Kris Versteeg + Carl Gunnarsson for Devon Setoguchi + Jamie McGinn
San Jose gets an almost identical player to Setoguchi, who comes already signed, with 2 years left on his deal. This proposal assumes that Setoguchi looks to be good for 4 million, which is probably too much at this point for SJ.
Gunnarsson is a big-minute man, who could play a role similar to Hjalmarsson's, who the Sharks were after. He's less of a physical player, but plays a much more stable game, and has offensive upside. I could see the guy putting up 25-30 points as soon as next year. Just a real smooth player. He comes with a year left on the ELC at 0.8 million.
Setoguchi is a slight upgrade in terms of goal scoring on the right-side. McGinn is also a guy with a year left on his ELC (1.0m) who could possibly step up into a top-six role in Toronto.
Again, this assumes Setoguchi is going for 4 million.
San Jose receives a direct replacement for Setoguchi along with fulfilling an organizational need that they tried to do so through the expensive option of the offer sheet, which not only would have cost draft picks, but would have further limited their cap flexibility with the 3.5 million offered. Gunnarsson brings a similar game to Hjalmarsson's with more offensive upside and at under a million. Essentially, San Jose gets their big-minute no. 4 d-man and an already signed clone of Setoguchi while saving 1.1 million in the process. Setoguchi and Versteeg are sure things, while Gunnarsson and McGinn are potential complementary players at this point, with their upside being that of a no. 4 defenseman and a second-line scoring forward.
The slightly more value of Setoguchi is justified through the just over 1 million in salary taken back by Toronto and the difference in upside between the two prospects. Gunnarsson is a lot more sure to become a no. 4 defenseman than McGinn a top-six forward in my opinion.
If your assumption is accurate, it's a good trade in my book. I doubt he's after 4 mil and the talks are that they're pretty much agreed on a contract. I wouldn't mind exploring a McGinn for Gunnarsson deal of some variety though.
I like Seto alot, but 4 million for him??? no way jose....maybe if he puts together 2 great seasons, but not at this point should he get close to that
I'm thinking that's what he's looking for. Again, the deal is based on this assumption. I don't think he's worth it either, but the deal is interesting if it comes to it.
No from Toronto
Although I do like Seto alot and he has a far higher ceiling than Versteeg does imo, he's really inconsistent and sometimes lazy on defense
I also don't like the Gunnarsson for Mcginn part, we already have Mitchell and Hanson to fill our bottom six C needs (maybe grabo too) so there's no use giving up on Gunnarsson
I'm thinking that's what he's looking for. Again, the deal is based on this assumption. I don't think he's worth it either, but the deal is interesting if it comes to it.
Pavelski got 4m and has clearly outplayed and outperformed Seto when it matters. There is no way DW gives him 4.
3.5 I think is the max, and most Sharks fan's are hoping for 3.
Still, it's a good deal all around I think. I like the proposal.
I'm thinking that's what he's looking for. Again, the deal is based on this assumption. I don't think he's worth it either, but the deal is interesting if it comes to it.
If he was seriously looking for 4 million, he would've filed for arbitration. Since he didn't and the team didn't, that would make one believe they're close and it's not that large of a number as Pavelski got that number with better numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawada12Setoguchi16
No from Toronto
Although I do like Seto alot and he has a far higher ceiling than Versteeg does imo, he's really inconsistent and sometimes lazy on defense
I also don't like the Gunnarsson for Mcginn part, we already have Mitchell and Hanson to fill our bottom six C needs (maybe grabo too) so there's no use giving up on Gunnarsson
All the Setoguchi criticisms are just but he is 23 and those criticisms are common from players of that age and his skill level. I have the utmost faith that Setoguchi will return to his rookie form wherever he may be and just hope that it's in San Jose.
As for McGinn, he's a winger and not a center. Right now, he's pretty much slated for the 3rd line left wing spot in San Jose but he has 2nd line potential. With the Leafs having Armstrong, Kulemin, Sjostrom, Caputi, Orr, and Brown, I'd think they're good to go on the wings as well as the center spot in the secondary role. Throwing McGinn into that mix likely doesn't hold much value for Toronto although I do feel McGinn would have a better chance proving himself a 2nd line winger in Toronto rather than San Jose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Nino
I'd switch Gunnarson with Kaberle and make San Jose throw in a 2011 2nd
So Setoguchi, McGinn, and a 2nd round pick for Versteeg and Kaberle? That's a humongous no from San Jose.
Sharks aren't going to value Kaberle the same as the Leafs should. He's a one year player to San Jose and the Leafs should want to re-sign Kaberle anyway. It's a case where the Sharks are overpaying and the Leafs are underselling.
Doesn't make much sense from a Leafs point of view, thy don't really have the cap space and its counter productive to trade your newly acquired asset and only Puck moving D man besides Kaberle.
Sharks aren't going to value Kaberle the same as the Leafs should. He's a one year player to San Jose and the Leafs should want to re-sign Kaberle anyway. It's a case where the Sharks are overpaying and the Leafs are underselling.
Seto and Versteeg is basically a wash. So it's pretty much Kaberle for McGinn + 2nd. Yeah, no thanks.
Besides, we don't even add a top 6 forward since Versteeg and Seto pretty much cancel each other out. McGinn doesn't help us out at all and we lose a valuable threat on the blue line.
Seriously, take out Versteeg, McGinn and 2nd and just make it Kaberle for Seto or Kaberle for Clowe + 2nd/prospect.
Seto and Versteeg is basically a wash. So it's pretty much Kaberle for McGinn + 2nd. Yeah, no thanks.
Besides, we don't even add a top 6 forward since Versteeg and Seto pretty much cancel each other out. McGinn doesn't help us out at all and we lose a valuable threat on the blue line.
Seriously, take out Versteeg, McGinn and 2nd and just make it Kaberle for Seto or Kaberle for Clowe + 2nd/prospect.
Versteeg and Setoguchi is not a wash. One has shown top flight production and the other has not. Versteeg is not even a proven 2nd line player. He's been producing on a 3rd line. Seto is younger with much higher potential as well.
As for your proposals, they are all no. Kaberle for one year is not worth Setoguchi nor is he worth Clowe and a 2nd/prospect.
Versteeg and Setoguchi is not a wash. One has shown top flight production and the other has not. Versteeg is not even a proven 2nd line player. He's been producing on a 3rd line. Seto is younger with much higher potential as well.
As for your proposals, they are all no. Kaberle for one year is not worth Setoguchi nor is he worth Clowe and a 2nd/prospect.
He's not even a proven 2nd liner? Then how is Seto a proven 2nd liner? One year he produces great playing beside Thornton and produce like half the next season playing with Pavelski.
Give Versteeg top 6 minutes with PP and he can produce 60+ points.
So let me get this straight: Pronger gets 2 1st, a top prospect in Sbisa and Lupul as a rental while Kaberle can't even get a 2nd liner in Clowe?
Kris Versteeg + Carl Gunnarsson for Devon Setoguchi + Jamie McGinn
San Jose gets an almost identical player to Setoguchi, who comes already signed, with 2 years left on his deal. This proposal assumes that Setoguchi looks to be good for 4 million, which is probably too much at this point for SJ.
Gunnarsson is a big-minute man, who could play a role similar to Hjalmarsson's, who the Sharks were after. He's less of a physical player, but plays a much more stable game, and has offensive upside. I could see the guy putting up 25-30 points as soon as next year. Just a real smooth player. He comes with a year left on the ELC at 0.8 million.
Setoguchi is a slight upgrade in terms of goal scoring on the right-side. McGinn is also a guy with a year left on his ELC (1.0m) who could possibly step up into a top-six role in Toronto.
Again, this assumes Setoguchi is going for 4 million.
San Jose receives a direct replacement for Setoguchi along with fulfilling an organizational need that they tried to do so through the expensive option of the offer sheet, which not only would have cost draft picks, but would have further limited their cap flexibility with the 3.5 million offered. Gunnarsson brings a similar game to Hjalmarsson's with more offensive upside and at under a million. Essentially, San Jose gets their big-minute no. 4 d-man and an already signed clone of Setoguchi while saving 1.1 million in the process. Setoguchi and Versteeg are sure things, while Gunnarsson and McGinn are potential complementary players at this point, with their upside being that of a no. 4 defenseman and a second-line scoring forward.
The slightly more value of Setoguchi is justified through the just over 1 million in salary taken back by Toronto and the difference in upside between the two prospects. Gunnarsson is a lot more sure to become a no. 4 defenseman than McGinn a top-six forward in my opinion.
You must just be in love with Setoguchi to conjure this up because McGinn will not be a top six guy and we give up a guy who we just got as well as a guy who had a promising rookie season.
He's not even a proven 2nd liner? Then how is Seto a proven 2nd liner? One year he produces great playing beside Thornton and produce like half the next season playing with Pavelski.
Give Versteeg top 6 minutes with PP and he can produce 60+ points.
So let me get this straight: Pronger gets 2 1st, a top prospect in Sbisa and Lupul as a rental while Kaberle can't even get a 2nd liner in Clowe?
Oh please.
Versteeg played one year as a 2nd line winger and this last year as a 3rd line winger. That's not proven. Setoguchi played one year as a 1st line winger and one year as a 2nd line winger. All I said was that Seto has shown top flight production and Versteeg has not and that is true.
There's a reason why Versteeg wasn't given much power play time in Chicago. There's no guarantee that Versteeg will produce with more time against better opposition.
Chris Pronger got what he did because he didn't show nearly the same amount of hesitance to play elsewhere that Kaberle has shown. Kaberle is also not half the player that Pronger is. Doug Wilson has repeatedly said that he is not interested in bringing in one year players. That should tell you that he simply will not value Kaberle to the point to pay assets that he needs just as much as Kaberle for the team to win to acquire him.
You must just be in love with Setoguchi to conjure this up because McGinn will not be a top six guy and we give up a guy who we just got as well as a guy who had a promising rookie season.
This is the first time I've heard a definitive take on McGinn's career already as a kid close to turning 22.
Versteeg played one year as a 2nd line winger and this last year as a 3rd line winger. That's not proven. Setoguchi played one year as a 1st line winger and one year as a 2nd line winger. All I said was that Seto has shown top flight production and Versteeg has not and that is true.
There's a reason why Versteeg wasn't given much power play time in Chicago. There's no guarantee that Versteeg will produce with more time against better opposition.
Chris Pronger got what he did because he didn't show nearly the same amount of hesitance to play elsewhere that Kaberle has shown. Kaberle is also not half the player that Pronger is. Doug Wilson has repeatedly said that he is not interested in bringing in one year players. That should tell you that he simply will not value Kaberle to the point to pay assets that he needs just as much as Kaberle for the team to win to acquire him.
Versteeg is playing on the 3rd line because they have guys like Toems, Kane, Hossa, Buff, Sharp, Ladd, Bolland. Seto would likely be playing on the 3rd line if he was on Chicago.
Versteeg would produce more if was given more minutes even strength and PP and if he got to play with better line-mates than players like Madden.
Seto had the one big season because he got top minutes playing beside arguably the best play maker in NHL.
Kaberle is not half the player Pronger is? Seriously cmon. I agree Pronger is farrrrr better but Kaberle is at least half of what Pronger fetched.
I think there is a huge misconception about Kaberle and where he would re-sign. I don't think he's ever said he would sign in a western conference team, but he would want to sign where it makes sense for him and his family. I doubt Kaberle would mind being in a hot place where the media doesn't bother him 24/7.
If Wilson wants to go for a cup run, then he needs to add a defense men or two because they are very thin right now. If they can find someone else other than Kaberle, go for it.
Seto and Versteeg is basically a wash. So it's pretty much Kaberle for McGinn + 2nd. Yeah, no thanks.
Besides, we don't even add a top 6 forward since Versteeg and Seto pretty much cancel each other out. McGinn doesn't help us out at all and we lose a valuable threat on the blue line.
Seriously, take out Versteeg, McGinn and 2nd and just make it Kaberle for Seto or Kaberle for Clowe + 2nd/prospect.
What part of (no kaberle) in the title are people not getting? It's been discussed to the point of beating a dead horse. Sharks fans do not want kaberle for his asking price. He will not resign with a west coast team. Therefore, why would we trade valuable assets for him? Maybe prospects and picks at the trade deadline if we feel he will put us over the top to the cup, but were not about to trade valuable top 6 players that are under team control past next year for a 1 year rental in kaberle.
This is the first time I've heard a definitive take on McGinn's career already as a kid close to turning 22.
iT's not a slam on a kid I have seen plenty of, just my opinion and you can feel free to remind me in coming years if I am wrong. The OP in this case is just looking to make any trade in order to get at Seto . Besides GM's don't pick up Versteeg to flip him like they are trading cards. Again no dis meant to the SJ guys and I like how Wilson keeps going back to his old junior team to get prospects.
Versteeg is playing on the 3rd line because they have guys like Toems, Kane, Hossa, Buff, Sharp, Ladd, Bolland. Seto would likely be playing on the 3rd line if he was on Chicago.
Versteeg would produce more if was given more minutes even strength and PP and if he got to play with better line-mates than players like Madden.
Seto had the one big season because he got top minutes playing beside arguably the best play maker in NHL.
Kaberle is not half the player Pronger is? Seriously cmon. I agree Pronger is farrrrr better but Kaberle is at least half of what Pronger fetched.
I think there is a huge misconception about Kaberle and where he would re-sign. I don't think he's ever said he would sign in a western conference team, but he would want to sign where it makes sense for him and his family. I doubt Kaberle would mind being in a hot place where the media doesn't bother him 24/7.
If Wilson wants to go for a cup run, then he needs to add a defense men or two because they are very thin right now. If they can find someone else other than Kaberle, go for it.
He was on even footing going into the campaign with the likes of Byfuglien and Brouwer and both out-played him to the point that they got more PP time than him. Ladd had better production relative to his time on the ice but he was not played ahead of Versteeg. A big reason why the Hawks got Hossa was in part due to Versteeg's inconsistencies. He's not the only one as Byfuglien contributed to that as well but if you put Seto in a spot where he's playing with Toews or Kane or Havlat, I think you'd see a 25-30 goal campaign his rookie year and a slight regress the next season. He wouldn't have played on the 3rd line because they would've seen a good rookie and not had a need to chase Hossa.
It's okay to say that Versteeg could improve with better linemates but I think it's an injustice to point to that and not point to the decreased quality in linemates when looking at Setoguchi. He was still producing at a high level even this past season when he started with Heatley and Thornton. He got hurt and never got that opportunity again.
Kaberle may fetch half of what Pronger did if he's sent to a team that he would consider re-signing with. There is no misconception about Kaberle's desired destinations. The Sharks are not on his list. His agent has said he has no desire to play out west. The only team that he has shown any sort of willingness to play for in the West is Detroit.
I agree that the Sharks need to add a defenseman or two but they're not going to add one year players and there's no reason for Doug Wilson to even say it in that light if he wasn't hinting at someone like Kaberle.
