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Old
07-18-2010, 02:04 PM
  #101
AK
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Believe it or not..........

If a deal is as close as it comes here in value and the same positions
i would still say no.
Just because the the players build their chemistry here and settled down for live.
Who know what happens when Malkin is moved here to L.A.......
maybe he wats to be a woman or and famous back ground dancer.....
same to Kopitar in Pittburgh

If the deal is Kopitar + Scuderi for Malkin +Goligos
i don't see any reason to do the trade from both side........
this would be just stupid
You do realize that Goligoski is significantly more valuable than Scuds, right? And I love Rob Scuderi.

If you wouldn't do that trade from LA, I can't help you.

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Old
07-18-2010, 02:05 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by AK View Post
You're being ridiculous. No team being run by Mario Lemieux tanks intentionally. The Penguins were just really bad. I get that you want to believe otherwise, but it's at best a huge, unrealistic reach.

By the way, the Pens that finished last the year before getting Crosby in the draft took 11 of a possible 16 points to close the year and would have moved out of last place if either Washington or Chicago hadn't gone to OT the last night of the year, hence each of them getting loser points. They both beat the Pens by one point.

So, no, they didn't tank. They actually seemed to really try not to finish last.
Actually, I'm pretty sure the ownership issue is the reason they tanked. It should also be noted that the players never want to tank. Their jobs are on the line, and tanking will only give them a better chance of getting kicked out of town. It is the owndership and the executives building the team that sould potentially lead a team into "tanking".

As for the points of those old guys, that's damn impressive. Serious question: What was the rest of the team like?

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Old
07-18-2010, 02:07 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Cliff O Malley View Post
04 season:
Recchi 75 points
Leclair 55 points, 23 goals
Palffy 41 points in 35 games, 16 goals
Mario's comeback
Gonchar 47 points
and Sid's RY
lots of people had high hopes for the Pens because on paper that looked like a solid team.
Facts Schmacts .

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Old
07-18-2010, 02:08 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Actually, I'm pretty sure the ownership issue is the reason they tanked. It should also be noted that the players never want to tank. Their jobs are on the line, and tanking will only give them a better chance of getting kicked out of town. It is the owndership and the executives building the team that sould potentially lead a team into "tanking".

As for the points of those old guys, that's damn impressive. Serious question: What was the rest of the team like?
I understand that you don't like Crosby or the Penguins. There are plenty much more reasonable angles to take to express that than to suggest tanking. The ownership issue shouldn't have had any effect on a winning mindset, because, like I said, Lemieux was still in charge and would never give anything less than a diligent effort under any circumstances. He hates losing. Olcyzk hates losing, too. He was coaching then. They were trying to draw fans desperately at that time to see the piss-poor product on the ice, really advertising discount ticket plans and such. Nobody wants to come and watch tanking, do they?

To suggest they were tanking for a draft, especially on the verge of a lockout, is just absurd and reeks of homerism. Think about it.

The fact that you're suggesting the signings of LeClair, Recchi, Palffy, and Thibault after the lockout meant nothing discredits you even further, if that's possible. There is no plausible evidence that they were anything but a naturally terrible team.

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Old
07-18-2010, 02:09 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Actually, I'm pretty sure the ownership issue is the reason they tanked. It should also be noted that the players never want to tank. Their jobs are on the line, and tanking will only give them a better chance of getting kicked out of town. It is the owndership and the executives building the team that sould potentially lead a team into "tanking".

As for the points of those old guys, that's damn impressive. Serious question: What was the rest of the team like?
Bad, but not bad enough that anyone in their right mind would even considering saying that the Pens were trying to tank that year.

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Old
07-18-2010, 02:10 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Actually, I'm pretty sure the ownership issue is the reason they tanked. It should also be noted that the players never want to tank. Their jobs are on the line, and tanking will only give them a better chance of getting kicked out of town. It is the owndership and the executives building the team that sould potentially lead a team into "tanking".

As for the points of those old guys, that's damn impressive. Serious question: What was the rest of the team like?
No one tanked. Get off it. You're really making yourself look bitter.

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Old
07-18-2010, 02:18 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Lario Melieux View Post
No one tanked. Get off it. You're really making yourself look bitter.
I'm sorry. Would you rather me say they weren't trying to win?

"But EVERYBODY tries to win!"

Yeah I guess, but do you expect to win when you put together a ****** roster? Really, I am a little bitter because Pens fans are contantly lecturing about how they did it the "right way" and are excellent at drafting. In reality, the organization put together bad teams and two of the draft picks were no-brainers.

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Old
07-18-2010, 02:26 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
You actually have no idea what sarcasm is.
First time I've seen that poster be sarcastic. He's normally pretty straightforward, and reasonably intelligent too. Though in my opinion he does over value some Kings players, but not nearly as badly as some. Which is why I thought he might be being serious, which is why I asked. Notice all I did was ask, not go off on a tirade about how stupid he was....


Wait why am I explaining myself to you anyway? Shouldn't you be in the bushes in Bernier's front yard, trying to get his picture or something.

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Old
07-18-2010, 02:38 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
First time I've seen that poster be sarcastic. He's normally pretty straightforward, and reasonably intelligent too. Though in my opinion he does over value some Kings players, but not nearly as badly as some. Which is why I thought he might be being serious, which is why I asked. Notice all I did was ask, not go off on a tirade about how stupid he was....


Wait why am I explaining myself to you anyway? Shouldn't you be in the bushes in Bernier's front yard, trying to get his picture or something.
You seem like a good guy Mush. Nice kibitzing with you. Yeah, I wasn't serious about Scuderi. The Kings can't "afford" what it would take to get Malkin and I don't want them to even if they could. Half (hell make that all) the fun of being a Kings fan the last few years has been watching our kids develop. I don't want to see the best of the best of them moved for anything until Lombardi is sure about what the team needs.

Right now too many open questions remain:

Can Quick or Bernier be "the man"?

Is Kopitar going to become a dominant #1 center, instead of just really good?

Is Johnson's head going to catch up to his talent?

Will Hickey be the #4 puck mover we need? Voynov?

Will Schenn be able to be the #2 center and how soon?

How many Norris Trophies is Doughty gonna win?

Time is on our side though. I think Lombardi knows this and that is one of the reasons negotiations with Kovalchuk are taking so long. He doesn't join the Kings unless it is on Dean's terms.

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Old
07-18-2010, 02:42 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by MartinVanBuren View Post
I don't know what kinda of math they're teaching in Pennsylvania, but 81 is more than 77.
Don't worry, you'll learn fractions once you get to high school. I know it's hard but stay with me here:

Kopi scored 81 points in 82 games, which is an 81 point pace over an entire season.

Malkin scored 77 points in 67 games, which is an 94 point pace over an entire season.

94 is more than 81.

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Old
07-18-2010, 02:45 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
I'm sorry. Would you rather me say they weren't trying to win?

"But EVERYBODY tries to win!"

Yeah I guess, but do you expect to win when you put together a ****** roster? Really, I am a little bitter because Pens fans are contantly lecturing about how they did it the "right way" and are excellent at drafting. In reality, the organization put together bad teams and two of the draft picks were no-brainers.
Teams that suck for a while get good picks/prospects. Chicago/L.A./NYI/Edmonton are all examples of this. It just so happens that the Pens were fortunate enough to get two great players.

But it's not like they planned on tanking and drafting these players.

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:00 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by ASV 27 View Post
Don't worry, you'll learn fractions once you get to high school. I know it's hard but stay with me here:

Kopi scored 81 points in 82 games, which is an 81 point pace over an entire season.

Malkin scored 77 points in 67 games, which is an 94 point pace over an entire season.

94 is more than 81.
I guess reading comprehension has always been hard for you. He said Kopitar had more points than Malkin... which is true. No mention of ppg or anything like that.

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:03 PM
  #113
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break down

Malkin #1-3 Top center in the game
Kopitar #10-15 center < and climbing >

but it's

Doughty #3-5 Top Dmen < and ONLY 20 >
and Goli is maybe top 25-30

that skews this trade to NEVER.

Malkin = Doughty + maybe 2 2nd round picks ATM
Kopitar = Goli + 2/3 first round picks < since they would be around 25 and not top 5 >

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:04 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKV Jungle Friends View Post
Kings Get: Malkin and Goligoski

Pens Get: Kopitar and Doughty

Just toying with this on the Pens board, so I wanted to see what the rest of the boards think of this.
I really hope the rest of your 3400+ posts weren't this dumb. Why in the world would the Kings even consider this? You obviously know the Pens are getting better value or else you wouldn't even come up with this idea.

Malkin is great but we here love Kopitar and we would be very hard pressed to trade him for Malkin ( or anyone other than Crosby). Not saying Kopitar has more value than Malkin.
On the other hand, Goligoski shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Doughty.

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:10 PM
  #115
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as a fan of neither team, this is a relatively fair trade, you could make arguments on either side to justify why they came out better. however, teams rarely if ever trade players of this caliber one for the other....so it's a moot point anyways....

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:14 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by discobob View Post
as a fan of neither team, this is a relatively fair trade, you could make arguments on either side to justify why they came out better. however, teams rarely if ever trade players of this caliber one for the other....so it's a moot point anyways....
Fair? Doughty makes up the difference between Malkin and Kopitar?

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:41 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by LaFan1967 View Post
break down

Malkin #1-3 Top center in the game
Kopitar #10-15 center < and climbing >

but it's

Doughty #3-5 Top Dmen < and ONLY 20 >
and Goli is maybe top 25-30

that skews this trade to NEVER.

Malkin = Doughty + maybe 2 2nd round picks ATM
Kopitar = Goli + 2/3 first round picks < since they would be around 25 and not top 5 >
I definitely don't think Kopitar is a #10-15 center, more like #7-10.

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Old
07-18-2010, 03:56 PM
  #118
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It's been a while since we had a PIT-LA thread glad to see it hasn't lost any of it's magic .

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Old
07-18-2010, 04:38 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKV Jungle Friends View Post
Kings Get: Malkin and Goligoski

Pens Get: Kopitar and Doughty

Just toying with this on the Pens board, so I wanted to see what the rest of the boards think of this.

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Old
07-18-2010, 04:41 PM
  #120
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So i guess Malkins value has took a dive because of his off year? Malkin would be worth Doughty, and Kopitar. Pens can trade Gogo+Letang elsewhere to have cap room for Kopitar when Doughty comes off his ELC and asks for 7M.

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Old
07-18-2010, 04:50 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
So i guess Malkins value has took a dive because of his off year? Malkin would be worth Doughty, and Kopitar. Pens can trade Gogo+Letang elsewhere to have cap room for Kopitar when Doughty comes off his ELC and asks for 7M.
No one said Malkin's value has taken a dive. A top 3 center is not worth a top 10 center and a top 2 defenseman

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Old
07-18-2010, 04:53 PM
  #122
66-29-33
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Originally Posted by Martyros View Post
No one said Malkin's value has taken a dive. A top 3 center is not worth a top 10 center and a top 2 defenseman
You gotta give to get.

And yeah Malkins dive took a hit here if people think Doughty straight up for Malkin is fair, or LOL Kopitar for Malkin.......

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Old
07-18-2010, 04:54 PM
  #123
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People keep on saying "top 3 center". It's top 3 player, at least top 3 forward.

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Old
07-18-2010, 05:03 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by ASV 27 View Post
Don't worry, you'll learn fractions once you get to high school. I know it's hard but stay with me here:

Kopi scored 81 points in 82 games, which is an 81 point pace over an entire season.

Malkin scored 77 points in 67 games, which is an 94 point pace over an entire season.

94 is more than 81.
I'm well aware of fractions. They simply don't matter in this case. Malkin didn't score 94 points. He scored 77. You don't get points for games you don't play in.


Also, this talk of whether the Penguins tanked or not is stupid. They did:

2001-02: 5th in Division, 13th in conference, 25th overall

2002-03: 5th in Division, 14th in conference, 29th overall

2003-04: 5th in Division, 15th in conference, 30th overall

2005-06: 5th in Division, 15th in conference, 29th overall

No team is that bad for 4 consecutive seasons without actively trying to be. Penguins fans, be happy with the Cup, but accept how you got there.


Last edited by MartinVanBuren: 07-18-2010 at 05:10 PM.
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Old
07-18-2010, 05:06 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
You gotta give to get.

And yeah Malkins dive took a hit here if people think Doughty straight up for Malkin is fair, or LOL Kopitar for Malkin.......
Oh really? Doughty for Malkin isn't fair? you're right, no one will trade you Doughty for Malkin. Malkin is worth more than Kopitar but to say Doughty straight up isn't fair is just ridiculous. Malkin may have the edge at this moment but Doughty is going to be a bigger piece than him after 2 years.

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