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Dallas-Los Angeles

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Old
07-18-2010, 01:37 AM
  #1
kingsfan
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Dallas-Los Angeles

To LA: Mike Ribiero, Stephane Robidas, Curtis McKenzie

To the Stars: Jarrett Stoll, Tomas Hickey, LA 1st 2011, LA 2nd 2012, Jeff Zatkoff

Gives LA their 2nd line center and their top four defenseman they need, gives Dallas some good pieces to use in a rebuild and Hickey could be the puckmoving defenseman they seem to be lacking. Stoll is included to give Dallas something immediate as well as to help offset salary.

Thoughts?


Last edited by kingsfan: 07-18-2010 at 09:25 AM.
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07-18-2010, 01:40 AM
  #2
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I'd rather try to get Brad Richards and his expiring contract.

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Old
07-18-2010, 01:45 AM
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Robidas is the Stars most valuable DMAn , they just cant afford to trade him right now . They are not really in a rebuilt mode. They have a pretty good Top 6 , they just need a real number one Dman to get back on track.

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07-18-2010, 02:42 AM
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I think we need to wait and see what moves the Kings will be making in free agency before considering this. They are one of the few teams likely to make a big splash, whether with Kovalchuck, Frolov or Stempniak or trading for a guy like Gagne. Until we see what that move is, it's hard to know what other moves they may make.

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07-18-2010, 02:46 AM
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Richards or bust

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07-18-2010, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
To LA: Mike Ribiero, Stephane Robidas, Curtis McKenzie

To the Stars: Jarrett Stoll, Tomas Hickey, LA 1st 2011, LA 2nd 2012, Jeff Zatkoff

Gives LA their 2nd line center and their top four defenseman they need, gives Dallas some good pieces to use in a rebuild and Hickey could be the puckmoving defenseman they seem to be lacking. Stoll is included to give Dallas something immediate as well as to help offset salary.

Thoughts?
At first I was going to say, SHUT THE FRONT DOOR. But it depends if Dallas wants to tank for Adam Larssen or not, because this would certainly help secure a good future. But, the quote below is the reality of the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tizzel View Post
Robidas is the Stars most valuable DMAn , they just cant afford to trade him right now . They are not really in a rebuild mode. They have a pretty good Top 6 , they just need a real number one Dman to get back on track.

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07-18-2010, 10:28 AM
  #7
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In value I think it is overpayment from LA. But, as Stars fans note, it is a step down in "right now" value. It's easy for me to say since I don't have to deal with my job being on the line if the team is bad or ticket sales suffer...

but if I'm Dallas I do the deal anyway.

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07-18-2010, 10:40 AM
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Zatkoff is a dark horse and hope the Kings give this kid a shot. I have seen him play and I see a great future of Bernier/Zatkoff in a couple years.

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Old
07-18-2010, 10:45 AM
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Not really interested in Ribeiro at those prices.

Only thing Dallas has that I really would be interested in is Richards.

IMO Dallas is going to find it much more difficult than many of their fans think it will to fill the holes they have on defense. They are also "hoping" that Lehtonen finds his game again. Was he ever on his game consistently for Atlanta? I would be interested in what Thrasher fans have to say on that question.

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07-18-2010, 10:55 AM
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I question if we can afford to get Richards if we also sign Kovalchuk. To me it may be a situation of one or the other, which is why I targeted Ribiero. I still think we get Kovalchuk.

Secondly, and rightly so, I think it'd cost a lot more to get Richards. At the trade deadline, Dallas could possibly get this much for Richards alone, nvm Robidas in the picture. I don't think LA could afford to get Richards and still trade for another top four D-man personally, without huge impacts to our teams long term future and judging by DL's trading history, that won't happen.

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07-18-2010, 11:02 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Not really interested in Ribeiro at those prices.

Only thing Dallas has that I really would be interested in is Richards.

IMO Dallas is going to find it much more difficult than many of their fans think it will to fill the holes they have on defense. They are also "hoping" that Lehtonen finds his game again. Was he ever on his game consistently for Atlanta? I would be interested in what Thrasher fans have to say on that question.
Lehtonen (in his first 60+ games season) led the Thrashers to their first division title, he hasn't played a full healthy season since, but maintained a SV% above .905 every season. I'm not too worried about his game consistency, it's his health that's still a question mark.


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07-18-2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Not really interested in Ribeiro at those prices.

Only thing Dallas has that I really would be interested in is Richards.

IMO Dallas is going to find it much more difficult than many of their fans think it will to fill the holes they have on defense. They are also "hoping" that Lehtonen finds his game again. Was he ever on his game consistently for Atlanta? I would be interested in what Thrasher fans have to say on that question.
Almost a PPG guy for the last 3 years earns you that kind of contract. Ribs is a very good 2nd line center.

As per Richards, Dallas would likely rather not make a divisional rival a powerhouse.

And I agree that the D is going to be difficult to upgrade even if the internal budget changes since the top FAs are now under contract, but by no means does it make sense to blow up the roster and start a complete rebuild when you consider the assets they hold.

Fingers crossed though optimistic on Lehtonen that some of his offseason habits have changed now that he's hopefully maturing and realizes he has a legit chance to be 'the guy' on a better team. We'll wait and see though. People know he's got talent, it's a matter of dedication and health.


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Old
07-18-2010, 11:17 AM
  #13
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Robidas' value is at an all time high now, wrong moment to trade for him.

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Old
07-18-2010, 11:37 AM
  #14
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take off Mackenzie and Zatkoff and I would be tempted as a stars fan most in Dallas won't rebuild to that extent including the GM

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07-18-2010, 12:11 PM
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Almost a PPG guy for the last 3 years earns you that kind of contract. Ribs is a very good 2nd line center.

As per Richards, Dallas would likely rather not make a divisional rival a powerhouse.

And I agree that the D is going to be difficult to upgrade even if the internal budget changes since the top FAs are now under contract, but by no means does it make sense to blow up the roster and start a complete rebuild when you consider the assets they hold.

Fingers crossed though optimistic on Lehtonen that some of his offseason habits have changed now that he's hopefully maturing and realizes he has a legit chance to be 'the guy' on a better team. We'll wait and see though. People know he's got talent, it's a matter of dedication and health.
I don't see Ribs as a PPG center. He is good for a consistent 65 points per season and would be an upgrade offensively over Stoll, but I am not interested in helping Dallas overcome their organization's lack of depth in quality young defensemen to get Ribeiro.

I don't think it is too optimistic to say the Kings will be a powerhouse in the Pacific Division in the not too distant future. Not too much Dallas or any other team in the Pacific can do to stop that from happening at this point. The Kings still have some holes to fill, but the best course of action might be to just wait and let Schenn develop. Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Simmonds, Quick and Bernier are all still very young after all. We may talk again at the trade deadline if Richards remains unsigned and the standings look the way I expect that they will.

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07-18-2010, 01:09 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by tizzel View Post
Robidas is the Stars most valuable DMAn , they just cant afford to trade him right now . They are not really in a rebuilt mode. They have a pretty good Top 6 , they just need a real number one Dman to get back on track.
I think a rebuild is exactly where the Stars are. They do have some good talent under 28, but they are still in a rebuild. Gone are Modano, Lehtinen, and Turco - which leaves them with 4 core veterens Robidas, Ribeiro, Richards, and Morrow (I know there is Skrastins and Sutherby - but they're basically roster fillers). With an internal cap of 47 million this year, I have a hard time believing they will be able to resign Richards. If this doesn't spell re-build then nothing does.

Dallas should move Richards at the deadline for young talent, prospects or picks, move Ribeiro and possibly Robidas, then spend 2/3 years with a young inexpensive roster until their ownership problems are solved - then they'll be positioned to be an elite team again

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07-18-2010, 01:16 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I don't see Ribs as a PPG center. He is good for a consistent 65 points per season and would be an upgrade offensively over Stoll, but I am not interested in helping Dallas overcome their organization's lack of depth in quality young defensemen to get Ribeiro.
Well, what you see him as is simply wrong and has no basis in reality.

Ribeiro has scored .89 PTS/Game since arriving in Dallas. This includes his first season, when he didn't play top 6 minutes or have top 6 teammates, and last season where he was recovering from a stick jammed through his throat and dealing with Crawford's "coaching". So even including those down years he's an average 73 point-per-season player.

I don't want to trade Ribeiro so this deal is unappealing. There are attractive pieces being offered by the Kings: Hickey and the 1st. Of course the 1st will almost certainly be 20 or higher and the 2nd will be 50 or higher so that mitigates their value. Goaltending prospects are no longer a need so you could take Zatkoff off. I wouldn't want Stoll back either although I realize that's a necessity for the Kings to fit the salary. So the Stars give up a #1 center (yes, I consider him a #1) signed for 3 more years, a #2-3 tweener Dman signed for 4 more years, and an intriguing projectable power forward prospect for essentially Hickey and a couple of decent picks. This deal isn't bad, and it considers the Stars' needs to a certain extent, but it's not one I would make.

And besides, Kings fans hate Ribeiro.

Quote:
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They do have some good talent under 28, but they are still in a rebuild. Gone are Modano, Lehtinen, and Turco
Lehtinen is not necessarily gone. He hasn't decided whether he's retiring or playing one more season. Unlike Modano, if Lehtinen decides to return there will be space made for him.

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07-18-2010, 01:24 PM
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oh I love Robidas !!

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Old
07-18-2010, 02:04 PM
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Well, what you see him as is simply wrong and has no basis in reality.

Ribeiro has scored .89 PTS/Game since arriving in Dallas. This includes his first season, when he didn't play top 6 minutes or have top 6 teammates, and last season where he was recovering from a stick jammed through his throat and dealing with Crawford's "coaching". So even including those down years he's an average 73 point-per-season player.

I don't want to trade Ribeiro so this deal is unappealing. There are attractive pieces being offered by the Kings: Hickey and the 1st. Of course the 1st will almost certainly be 20 or higher and the 2nd will be 50 or higher so that mitigates their value. Goaltending prospects are no longer a need so you could take Zatkoff off. I wouldn't want Stoll back either although I realize that's a necessity for the Kings to fit the salary. So the Stars give up a #1 center (yes, I consider him a #1) signed for 3 more years, a #2-3 tweener Dman signed for 4 more years, and an intriguing projectable power forward prospect for essentially Hickey and a couple of decent picks. This deal isn't bad, and it considers the Stars' needs to a certain extent, but it's not one I would make.

And besides, Kings fans hate Ribeiro.


Lehtinen is not necessarily gone. He hasn't decided whether he's retiring or playing one more season. Unlike Modano, if Lehtinen decides to return there will be space made for him.
Meh, difference of opinion. I don't "hate" Ribs. I just wouldn't overpay for what he can bring to the table. You guys want to move him because you see Benn taking over Ribeiro's slot (if you can re-sign Richards, and I maintain that is a BIG IF). Ribeiro isn't old, but he doesn't have much upside left in him either, and he would definitely be a #2 center on the Kings team. Also, I don't want to pay $5M a season to a guy for that job unless he has a lot more jam to his game than Ribeiro does.

I'm content waiting to see how Schenn develops unless a guy like Richards or Savard drops into our laps. Then we can move Stoll for another piece we need and Schenn can bide his time on the 3rd or 4th line.

Lehtinen? Great player in his day. Really admire his game, but today he is pretty much done. He can't do it night in and night out anymore. BTW, I don't put much credence in the original deal that was suggested, too many pieces to it. I don't want Hickey moved in any deal for Ribeiro.

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07-18-2010, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
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Not really interested in Ribeiro at those prices.

Only thing Dallas has that I really would be interested in is Richards.

IMO Dallas is going to find it much more difficult than many of their fans think it will to fill the holes they have on defense. They are also "hoping" that Lehtonen finds his game again. Was he ever on his game consistently for Atlanta? I would be interested in what Thrasher fans have to say on that question.
Robidas interests me a great deal. Richards is very nice but kind of unrealistic at his tag.

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07-18-2010, 02:17 PM
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Robidas interests me a great deal. Richards is very nice but kind of unrealistic at his tag.
He fits under our salary cap this season, especially if he comes in a deadline deal.

Dallas seems to think though that they are just two top pairing defensemen away from being contenders again. That may be true I suppose, but as we all know acquiring one player of that calibre is tough enough, much less two. I'm thinking that by Jan/Feb Dallas will be wanting to deal Richards if he hasn't signed an extension.

Also no way Richards gets more than a cap hit of $6M on his next deal.

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07-18-2010, 02:57 PM
  #22
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He fits under our salary cap this season, especially if he comes in a deadline deal.

Dallas seems to think though that they are just two top pairing defensemen away from being contenders again. That may be true I suppose, but as we all know acquiring one player of that calibre is tough enough, much less two. I'm thinking that by Jan/Feb Dallas will be wanting to deal Richards if he hasn't signed an extension.

Also no way Richards gets more than a cap hit of $6M on his next deal.
What? I wish.

Some team (most likely the Rangers) will overpay for Richards if he hits the market. He's already indicated that he most likely won't take a pay cut and if he has another 90 point season I can't see him signing for anything less than 7+ mil. cap hit. The only way he takes a 6M cap hit is if he signs a 10 year front loaded contract. And, I doubt DL has the guts to sign Richards for that long especially if you guys sign Kovalchuck and have Johnson, Simmonds, and Doughty as RFAs next summer.


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07-18-2010, 03:23 PM
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What? I wish.

Some team (most likely the Rangers) will overpay for Richards if he hits the market. He's already indicated that he most likely won't take a pay cut and if he has another 90 point season I can't see him signing for anything less than 7+ mil. cap hit. The only way he takes a 6M cap hit is if he signs a 10 year front loaded contract. And, I doubt DL has the guts to sign Richards for that long especially if you guys sign Kovalchuck and have Johnson, Simmonds, and Doughty as RFAs next summer.
That's not what Stars' fans have been saying...

They tell us that Richards understands that the cap hit on his last deal was way out of line. The usual suspects like the Rangers and Flyers still don't have enough wiggle room under the cap to add a big cap hit contract even next summer.

Like I said though, time is on the Kings side and Schenn may turn out to be great and just what we need.

We will see on the Kings RFA front. None of us expect Doughty or Simmonds to hit RFA status. That may all get sorted out this summer after the Kovalchuk mess has been resolved. Johnson on the other hand? We'll see...

Point is Lombardi will likely know exactly what he has to work with in terms of cap space by the time he needs to start thinking about acquiring a #2 center (if it is still a need).

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07-18-2010, 04:12 PM
  #24
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I don't see Ribs as a PPG center. He is good for a consistent 65 points per season and would be an upgrade offensively over Stoll, but I am not interested in helping Dallas overcome their organization's lack of depth in quality young defensemen to get Ribeiro.
So you don't want to help Dallas out by shipping a Dman who provides zero immediate help to them? And most notably not for a 30 year old player who has been a number one center in Dallas during a very good year (2007-2008) for the franchise. And a centerman who also had linemates with inferior offensive talent as compared to the current linemates of our new, maybe overrated number one center.

Put in perspective, Richards best seasons in the NHL have come while playing with Marty St.Louis in TBay and now Eriksson and Neal in Dallas.

Ribeiro with Morrow and Lehtinen had 8 fewer points during his best season while playing 76 games as compared to the 80 and 82 Richards played in his to 91 point seasons. And it's not as if Richards has a leg up on Ribeiro in terms of defensive play.

I like them both players, hope we keep them, and agree that Richards will take a hit closer to that of St. Louis' recent extension.

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07-18-2010, 04:32 PM
  #25
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Robidas is the Stars most valuable DMAn , they just cant afford to trade him right now . They are not really in a rebuilt mode. They have a pretty good Top 6 , they just need a real number one Dman to get back on track.
I find this interesting. The Stars aren't in a rebuild mode, but they desperately need to be. With a 12th place finish, the franchise C and G now gone, 2/3 of the blueline going to UFA in a single year, and little to get excited about in the pipeline, the Stars are team screaming for a rebuild. I wonder if Niewendyk's heart will catch up to what he must be seeing with his eyes?

The team needs to blow up and build around Ericksson, Neal, Benn, Niskanen, and have the whole project headed up by Star-for-life Morrow. Crucial long-term problems exist on the blueline and in goal if Lehtonen doesn't pan out. They are not one player away from being a contender... they're a long way away from being a team that can do little more than contend for a chance to get crushed in the first round, and the only way they're really going to improve is to deal players like Richards, Ribiero, Robidas, and whomever else can help them.

The time to do it is not now, however. These are trade deadline deals to make, when the value of prospects and picks are low and so a greater return can be made.

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