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Simon Gagne to Tampa Bay (EDIT: Confirmed)

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Old
07-19-2010, 06:19 PM
  #301
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
hmm conflicting accounts right there lol. But I'm pretty sure gagner is saying it just because it's the right thing to say.
I believe that the right thing to say was "Lightning was my first choice", 'cause that's where he ends playing.

Not sure why people are always thinking that the french are those little evil green monsters who are always using the Habs for their own benefit. Yeah, it did happen, does happen and will happen....like other players will use other teams etc.

But there are guys who want to play here. And I believe that quite obviously, the more there will be french players in this team, the more other french players will want to come in. For obvious reasons like not having to be the spokeperson for the team every single day of the year 365 days a year.

But the fact that a player can hardly say NO to the question "Are you interested by the Habs", I can't believe that NO fracophones would like to play here either.

As far as the Gagné trade is concerned, great move by the Lighting. Found funny that some people are already in dissing mode trying to diminuish the type of player Gagné is. We didn't have any room. I which we did. A guy like Gagné would be welcome in my team any time, and it's not because he speaks french....

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Old
07-19-2010, 06:24 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post

As far as the Gagné trade is concerned, great move by the Lighting. Found funny that some people are already in dissing mode trying to diminuish the type of player Gagné is. We didn't have any room. I which we did. A guy like Gagné would be welcome in my team any time, and it's not because he speaks french....
Finally a voice of reason in here.

Gagne at 5.25M is >>>> then Kostitsyn at 3.25M....

Gagne-Plekanec-Cammalleri
Pouliot-Gomez-Gionta

Gotta say, it would be nice to have atleast 5 players capable of showing up every night on the top 6.

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Old
07-19-2010, 06:27 PM
  #303
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Good, about time Lindros Lite was dealt.

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Old
07-19-2010, 06:32 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by husamus156 View Post
Gagné is 30 years 5.25 million --> UFA
17 goal 23 assists in 59 games
AK 25 years 3.25 --> RFA
15 goals 18 assists in 58 games

I prefer AK over Gagné
Gagné missed
36 games --> 2002-2003
57 games --> 2007-2008
24 games --> 2009-2010

AK
23 games --> 2009-2010

AK may not miss games but he sure can be absent anyways

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Old
07-19-2010, 06:52 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH
Oh it's true, hockey is becoming increasingly popular in Tampa.
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Just like in Slapshot.
Wonderful biting satire there -- I don't think anyone has ever pointed out that hockey is more popular in Canada than in the US.

They have lots of other pro sports in Tampa and the attendance does seem to fluctuate based on how well the team does. However I was curious if this had any truth to it so I actually looked at the attendance figures (sorry to bring facts into a MB discussion -- I know they are unwelcome). Considering how bad the Lightning have been over the past few years (if not the worst team in the league then certainly among them) the fact they were 21st in attendance by years end is relatively impressive. The attendance outperformed the team on the ice -- teams that made the playoffs had lower attendance than Tampa.

When the team is good they do okay ... actually somewhat more than okay:

03-04: 12th in attendance. (1st in the east.)
05-06: 2nd in attendance. (8th in the east.)
06-07: 3rd in attendance. (7th in the east.)
07-08: 8th in attendance. (They finished last in the league this year.)

First off they had the lockout right after the Cup win which I'm sure didn't help sell tickets. Then they had two years of very moderate "success" after the Cup win (barely making the playoffs) yet the attendance held up to be among the best in the league; even in the midst of a horrible last place year in 07/08 the attendance held up reasonably well. Yes, after 2-3 years of finishing near the bottom of the league the attendance dropped to around 20th -- for a southern US team the record is probably one of the strongest. Sorry to let facts get in the way of a "good" joke.

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Old
07-19-2010, 06:59 PM
  #306
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As much as I like Gagne he's one concussion away from his last concussion.
No matter how you slice it, it IS a gamble

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Old
07-19-2010, 07:07 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
As much as I like Gagne he's one concussion away from his last concussion.
No matter how you slice it, it IS a gamble
He's on his last contract year... Not much of a gamble imo.

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Old
07-19-2010, 07:25 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Precisely why last summer's spend fest and total mismanagement of the roster was such a painful pill to swallow.

Instead of taking a long term vision of how to be ahead of the curve when it comes to building AND maintaining in the cap era, we blew our proverbial wad on what was available and get stuck eatching other teams poach players and improve their team, while we continue scramble just to keep the mediocre status quo.

Gagne or not, the reality we are facing is that we are yet again a cap spending team with a borderline playoff team

let's see if PG has it in him to take advantage of the devils situation, fingers crossed
I'd rather have Cammalleri and Gionta over Gagne any day!
The only mistake made in Free Agency was overpaying for Spacek......Although I happen to think Spacek had a off year do to 1. Not playing his natural side and 2. Injuries.

I look to Spacek to be a lot more consistent (he was a machine vs. Ovechkin)
Spacek can play.

If anything Montreal may try and unload Hamrlik movin O'Byrne in his spot beside Spacek (back to his natural side)

Subban Markov
O'Byrne Spacek
Gorges Gill
Carle

Hamrlik to LA for a pick or prospect.
Sign Price to 3 years / 6 million
Sign Frolov to 3 years / 12 million

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Old
07-19-2010, 07:29 PM
  #309
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why would we have two puck moving d-men on the same line?

and I doubt Frolov signs for less then 4.5, but weirder things have happened

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Old
07-19-2010, 07:40 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
why would we have two puck moving d-men on the same line?

and I doubt Frolov signs for less then 4.5, but weirder things have happened
IF Hamrlik was moved then Markov is the best person to show Subban how to become....Well Markov!

We all want, hope and believe that Subban is Markov's eventual successor so what better line mate then Markov himself.

Markov is one of those guys that instantly makes his partner a better player.
Subban could only benefit from playing with him.

The Gill / Gorges duo is not likely to be split up after last years playoff success they had together and IF Hamrlik is traded that leaves O'Byrne and Spacek.

O'Byrne is a solid stay home guy and it would allow Spacek to play to his strength which is moving the puck and pinching in on the play from time to time.

Obviously this is just my opinion and only means as much as the next persons but heck that's why we have forums like this.

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Old
07-19-2010, 07:47 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
I'm shocked they have cap room for him. Between Malone, Vinny, Ohlund, St.Louis its just baffling.
Before this trade, they had 19M cap room....in case you wonder....

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Old
07-19-2010, 07:58 PM
  #312
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Well, Holmgren got robbed blind.
But aside from that, still the usual comedy show from RDS & company. It's not like Gagne had to waive a no-trade clause and was a die-hard Nordiques fan that couldn't get behind the Habs.

Or... he was exactly that and that's why most intelligent people knew anything positive he was going to say about the Habs was mumbo-jumbo to have good press with the francophone medias who'd jump on the possibility of a good quebec franco kid joining the Habs and inevitably trashing the GM when it doesn't happen.

Let's face it. Gagne was NEVER and will not ever join the Habs unless at some point his career becomes so bad that he can only pursue his NHL career by convincing the Habs to sign him because they want a local player on the team.
I mean, the Habs have seen more than their fair share of has-been players that repudiated the team only to sign with them when it was their only choice left. (Like Laraque who knew his career was pretty much finished unless he convinced the Habs to overlook his back injury because he's a local)

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Old
07-19-2010, 07:59 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Before this trade, they had 19M cap room....in case you wonder....
That's because Hedman,Stamkos,Downie are still on ELC. In 2 years they are screwed

Stamkos will get atleast 6-7 million
Hedman about 4-5 million
Downie about 3-4 million

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Old
07-19-2010, 08:10 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by NJLigerNJ View Post
Wonderful biting satire there -- I don't think anyone has ever pointed out that hockey is more popular in Canada than in the US.

They have lots of other pro sports in Tampa and the attendance does seem to fluctuate based on how well the team does. However I was curious if this had any truth to it so I actually looked at the attendance figures (sorry to bring facts into a MB discussion -- I know they are unwelcome). Considering how bad the Lightning have been over the past few years (if not the worst team in the league then certainly among them) the fact they were 21st in attendance by years end is relatively impressive. The attendance outperformed the team on the ice -- teams that made the playoffs had lower attendance than Tampa.

When the team is good they do okay ... actually somewhat more than okay:

03-04: 12th in attendance. (1st in the east.)
05-06: 2nd in attendance. (8th in the east.)
06-07: 3rd in attendance. (7th in the east.)
07-08: 8th in attendance. (They finished last in the league this year.)

First off they had the lockout right after the Cup win which I'm sure didn't help sell tickets. Then they had two years of very moderate "success" after the Cup win (barely making the playoffs) yet the attendance held up to be among the best in the league; even in the midst of a horrible last place year in 07/08 the attendance held up reasonably well. Yes, after 2-3 years of finishing near the bottom of the league the attendance dropped to around 20th -- for a southern US team the record is probably one of the strongest. Sorry to let facts get in the way of a "good" joke.
Good post. Tampa has a solid fan base. It's not close to what any of the Canadian teams have or maybe even what some of the better U.S. hockey market teams have, but Tampa hasn't been around as long as Detroit, Boston, Chicago, Philly, etc. And sure maybe Tampa will never have fan support like any of those teams, but when they are winning they have the support. You can't say that for Phoenix, Nashville or even Dallas so much. W/ the lousy ownership/management they have had for the past two seasons, I could see fans not wanting to support them even for that reason. And w/ the not so great economy and the many teams in Tampa to choose from not everyone is going to be choosing (wasting money on) a losing hockey team over football or baseball which are just more popular in the U.S., regardless. Anyways, love how the Habs fan are so obsessed w/ the Lightning nowadays. If you guys are so worried about the fan support down in Tampa, you're more than welcome to jump ship.

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Old
07-19-2010, 09:35 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Mats NAslund View Post
I'd rather have Cammalleri and Gionta over Gagne any day!
The only mistake made in Free Agency was overpaying for Spacek......Although I happen to think Spacek had a off year do to 1. Not playing his natural side and 2. Injuries.

I look to Spacek to be a lot more consistent (he was a machine vs. Ovechkin)
Spacek can play.

If anything Montreal may try and unload Hamrlik movin O'Byrne in his spot beside Spacek (back to his natural side)

Subban Markov
O'Byrne Spacek
Gorges Gill
Carle

Hamrlik to LA for a pick or prospect.
Sign Price to 3 years / 6 million
Sign Frolov to 3 years / 12 million
Trading for Gomez instead of keeping Koivu was a COLOSSAL mistake, as was the 3 years for Spacek.
Cammalleri and Gionta, separately, were ok, if risky (especially for Gionta) signings that have been ok thus far, but i stil question spending 11million on two smallish players with similar skill sets .

but when you make a 7.4M$ mistake, there isn't a lot of wiggle room to fix it. just ask the hawks (who at least got one cup out of it before it started to burn them... and frankly they still have a roster capable of doing some serious damage and a cupboard full of quality young players/prospects).


with Gagne available at such a bargain basement price, and interested in playing in montreal, I can't see PG and the habs now going out and committing to Frolov on a multi-year deal if they passed on Gagne.

That they had no interest in Gagne, tells me that he's done improving the team aside from a minor deal for a depth player later in the summer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
The team went the farthest it ever has since 1993. Maybe the results this coming year will disappoint, but right now they have had more success than some of us remember. So right now you cannot call them a "borderline playoff team".

Regardless, Gagne can be had for free next summer when the Habs have actual cap space.
oh, i guess i dreamt up the whole "sneaking into the playoffs in 8th place on the last weekend of the season" thing...

no, no, i'm pretty sure that happened. Pretty sure that we were a borderline playoff team this year, regardless of the miracle run we went on for 3 rounds.
In the playoffs, all bets are off, anything can happen, but getting there is still the first step (and what place you get there in makes the playoff road a whole lot easier).

I don't think 1 good playoff run does anything to change the actual caliber of our roster, and with no real improvements made to that roster (yes, we add subban and eller, but we lost the guy who got us into the playoffs, and carried us to the 3rd round... i generously call that a wash).

While I'm cautiously optimistic that the team could very well be improved next year, that improvement will rely heavily on several young players playing to, or beyond their potential, AND that our 3 aged and slowing dmen (Spacek/Gill/Hamrlik) can hold up for another 82 game season while playing big minutes (especially while markov is out).

in the end, borderline playoff team (6-10 in the conference) is the most likely destination for this roster, imo.

but hey, if we catch fire in a bottle the way we did in april/may, and Price emphatically proves that the team made the right decision, then HALLELUJAH !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I'm jealous...honestly love every move he's made so far as T-Bay GM.
tell me about it...

he inherited a decent situation as far as having some great young talent, but consider this:

Gagne-Lecavalier-Malone
Downie- Stamkos- St-Louis

Purcell/Thompson/Hall/Wright

Ohlund- Hedman
Kubina- Clark
Lashoff- Lundin/Smaby

Ellis
Smith

plus 10 million$$ in cap space still open...

all he's missing is 1- 3-4 dman and 2 solid 3rd liners, and he has himself a pretty legit cup contending caliber team...
I'm not sure what kind of young players they have perhaps ready to make the jump, and I'm not sure if the Lightning management are willing to dip much into that 10M, but if they are, there are still a lot of "perfect" fits for them in the UFA market.
they could add a Salei or Sutton on the back end, likely for pretty cheap (since these guys are still on the market), and 2 of Moore/Belanger/Morrisson/Torres/Artychukin/Lehtinen

the Yzerman/Boucher tandem has the potential to make us cry for years to come.
Thank you st-bo

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Old
07-19-2010, 09:53 PM
  #316
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I don't see how this move was tied to Kovalchuk. Was Tampa in on him?

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:28 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by 19brichards91 View Post
Good post. Tampa has a solid fan base. It's not close to what any of the Canadian teams have or maybe even what some of the better U.S. hockey market teams have, but Tampa hasn't been around as long as Detroit, Boston, Chicago, Philly, etc. And sure maybe Tampa will never have fan support like any of those teams, but when they are winning they have the support. You can't say that for Phoenix, Nashville or even Dallas so much. W/ the lousy ownership/management they have had for the past two seasons, I could see fans not wanting to support them even for that reason. And w/ the not so great economy and the many teams in Tampa to choose from not everyone is going to be choosing (wasting money on) a losing hockey team over football or baseball which are just more popular in the U.S., regardless. Anyways, love how the Habs fan are so obsessed w/ the Lightning nowadays. If you guys are so worried about the fan support down in Tampa, you're more than welcome to jump ship.
The Lightning have been doing things that the Habs fans wanted our team to do and have players our fans would like on our team. Some of them happen to be French so it gets a lot of play from a team with a largely French speaking audience. It's not some giant mystery.
The whole arrogant "you're sooo obsessed with us" thing is getting old, get over yourself.

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:34 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
he inherited a decent situation as far as having some great young talent, but consider this:

Gagne-Lecavalier-Malone
Downie- Stamkos- St-Louis

Purcell/Thompson/Hall/Wright

Ohlund- Hedman
Kubina- Clark
Lashoff- Lundin/Smaby

Ellis
Smith

plus 10 million$$ in cap space still open...

all he's missing is 1- 3-4 dman and 2 solid 3rd liners, and he has himself a pretty legit cup contending caliber team...
I'm not sure what kind of young players they have perhaps ready to make the jump, and I'm not sure if the Lightning management are willing to dip much into that 10M, but if they are, there are still a lot of "perfect" fits for them in the UFA market.
they could add a Salei or Sutton on the back end, likely for pretty cheap (since these guys are still on the market), and 2 of Moore/Belanger/Morrisson/Torres/Artychukin/Lehtinen

the Yzerman/Boucher tandem has the potential to make us cry for years to come.
Thank you st-bo
The Stamkos extension is going to kill half of that cap space easily and than Hedman could eat up the rest of it the year after, you can complain about Gomez, but Lecavalier's shoulder injuries and wrist problems are diluting his talent badly while he's still signed until he's 40 at 7.7 pers season, at least Gomez is gone in 4 more years. TB will hit a wall for space sooner than you think.

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07-19-2010, 10:43 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by SeriousFan09 View Post
The Stamkos extension is going to kill half of that cap space easily and than Hedman could eat up the rest of it the year after, you can complain about Gomez, but Lecavalier's shoulder injuries and wrist problems are diluting his talent badly while he's still signed until he's 40 at 7.7 pers season, at least Gomez is gone in 4 more years. TB will hit a wall for space sooner than you think.
smith is off the books next year...his 2.4M cap hit could easily cover Stamkos's new RFA deal (he's at a 3.725 hit right now, Yzerman should be able to get him on his next contract under/around 6M).

in two years, when hedman is up, kubina's 3.85 comes off the books, making room for whatever raise hedman is due.

but of course, the lighting will have to manage their books well to keep the nucleus they're building together, and that will really test Yzerman's ability, but for now, they are looking to be in GREAT shape... especially if Lecavalier returns to a "top of the league" level, as opposed to the current, ~ppg pace.

TB "may" run out of cap space, but we've already ran out of cap space...

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:48 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
why would we have two puck moving d-men on the same line?

and I doubt Frolov signs for less then 4.5, but weirder things have happened
Lets sign him for 20 years with 3 millions cap it

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:54 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Ncrdrg View Post
Well, Holmgren got robbed blind.But aside from that, still the usual comedy show from RDS & company. It's not like Gagne had to waive a no-trade clause and was a die-hard Nordiques fan that couldn't get behind the Habs.

Or... he was exactly that and that's why most intelligent people knew anything positive he was going to say about the Habs was mumbo-jumbo to have good press with the francophone medias who'd jump on the possibility of a good quebec franco kid joining the Habs and inevitably trashing the GM when it doesn't happen.

Let's face it. Gagne was NEVER and will not ever join the Habs unless at some point his career becomes so bad that he can only pursue his NHL career by convincing the Habs to sign him because they want a local player on the team.
I mean, the Habs have seen more than their fair share of has-been players that repudiated the team only to sign with them when it was their only choice left. (Like Laraque who knew his career was pretty much finished unless he convinced the Habs to overlook his back injury because he's a local)
I'm sure Holmgren doesn't agree. He got rid of a burdensome salary to an often-injured player without having to take back salary or pay to keep in the AHL or buy him out. That relieves the Flyers from having to trade Carter or another valuable asset and it enables them to sign less expensive free agent.

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:54 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
smith is off the books next year...his 2.4M cap hit could easily cover Stamkos's new RFA deal (he's at a 3.725 hit right now, Yzerman should be able to get him on his next contract under/around 6M).

in two years, when hedman is up, kubina's 3.85 comes off the books, making room for whatever raise hedman is due.

but of course, the lighting will have to manage their books well to keep the nucleus they're building together, and that will really test Yzerman's ability, but for now, they are looking to be in GREAT shape... especially if Lecavalier returns to a "top of the league" level, as opposed to the current, ~ppg pace.

TB "may" run out of cap space, but we've already ran out of cap space...
Every team that contends for a Cup these days is sitting right on the cap, that's how it works. TB may become a rising power in the East, but they'll have to spend to the cap to do it and manage it carefully.

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:55 PM
  #323
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WAAAAAA

Cry me a river
The Habs have run out of cap space
OH, What are we to do?

So the year after replacing 10 UFA's, we'd like to replace another 5 or so roster players?
If so when do the kids get a chance?
Cry all you want about Hamrlik, he's served this team well and you need him at the start of the season.
Kostitsyn at 3.25 better than Ryder? I'm guessing yes
well both are off the books next year if you so desire, so's Markov Gill Auld and Darche if you wish.
Some of the depth up front should start performing on cheap RFA contracts. Thats 18.25 million in space available
Kind of reminds me of the off-season we had where we re-tooled and made it to the ECF's
If you're going to call it, call it like it is, don't spin it.
The only way the young guys are going to earn roster spots is if they're given chances to play

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:55 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by scottyG View Post
That's because Hedman,Stamkos,Downie are still on ELC. In 2 years they are screwed

Stamkos will get atleast 6-7 million
Hedman about 4-5 million
Downie about 3-4 million
Your forgetting that they get $5.25 million in cap space next year when Gagne is off the books.

The lightning won't have cap problems for the next 5+ years.

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Old
07-19-2010, 10:55 PM
  #325
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Stevie Y did a short phone interview with TSN and he made it clear that they were bringing in Gagne for this year only. Maybe during the season they will try to sign him to an extension but that doesn't seem to be in Tampa's plan for now.

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