Should Gauthier lock up Gorges long-term, and at what price?
I'm of the opinion that Josh Gorges is needs to be locked up long term. Everyone here knows the passion, dedication and effective play that Josh brings to the Habs roster, so let's not spend too much time on that.
1-Should Gorges be re-signed before his contract expires July 1, 2011?
2-When would be an ideal time to re-sign him?
3-What kind of term should PG offer him (i.e. years)?
4-What is the maximum amount per year that you'd be happy seeing PG give him?
My answers:
1-Yes.
2-Sometime during the season because right now his value may be as high as it gets due to his playoff performance.
3-5 years
4-2.8 million. although I'd be happier with something in the 2.5 range.
I'm of the opinion that Josh Gorges is needs to be locked up long term. Everyone here knows the passion, dedication and effective play that Josh brings to the Habs roster, so let's not spend too much time on that.
1-Should Gorges be re-signed before his contract expires July 1, 2011?
2-What kind of term should PG offer him (i.e. years)?
3-What is the maximum amount per year that you'd be happy seeing PG give him?
My answers:
1-Yes.
2-5 years
3-2.8 million. although I'd be happier with something in the 2.5 range.
He is a defensive defenseman so he can not get BIG money on the free market, I am sure he and his agent are aware of this. He plays a very tough game blocking lots of shots and playing against guys much bigger than he is. He exemplifies heart and determination and I think this would be quite a fair deal, but honestly I would expect him to get more with his playoff performance.
Guys like Rivet and Tallinder make almost a full million more and in my opinion offer less than Gorges does.
Mark Eaton and Douglass Murray make 2.5 and Gorges is more valuable than those guys right?
I wouldn't extend Josh Gorges longterm at all. Don't get me wrong. The man has a lot of heart and determination. But there are things he doesn't have.
1. No shot.
2. Hits but will never have an "impact" hit.
3. He gets physically overpowered in the crease IMO thus ending up the goaltender's area.
I've been impressed with some of the younger D-men to come up in recent years who have the potential for a well rounded game. I wouldn't want to clog up the roster with a pretty one dimensional d-man. He's a very good bottom pairing d-man but I think the money should be spent elsewhere.
I wouldn't extend Josh Gorges longterm at all. Don't get me wrong. The man has a lot of heart and determination. But there are things he doesn't have.
1. No shot.
2. Hits but will never have an "impact" hit.
3. He gets physically overpowered in the crease IMO thus ending up the goaltender's area.
I've been impressed with some of the younger D-men to come up in recent years who have the potential for a well rounded game. I wouldn't want to clog up the roster with a pretty one dimensional d-man. He's a very good bottom pairing d-man but I think the money should be spent elsewhere.
He's a defensive defenseman. Teams need guys like Gorges. Who do you feel from our farm team could make a better impact than Gorges?
Don't include Subban in this since he is pretty much part of the Habs now.
He's a defensive defenseman. Teams need guys like Gorges. Who do you feel from our farm team could make a better impact than Gorges?
Don't include Subban in this since he is pretty much part of the Habs now.
I wasn't necessarily saying from the Habs' system, just in general. I have no qualms about re-signing Gorges - just not longterm. The Habs' got Hal Gill through free agency.
I admit I am more of a fan of hybrid d-men. With the salary cap I'd rather have a solid top 4 and skimp on the bottom pairing. The Habs' have been skimping on the top 4 and signing a bunch of bottom pairing d-men it seems the last few years which is why it seems there is a huge hill to climb when Markov goes down.
I wouldn't extend Josh Gorges longterm at all. Don't get me wrong. The man has a lot of heart and determination. But there are things he doesn't have.
1. No shot.
2. Hits but will never have an "impact" hit.
3. He gets physically overpowered in the crease IMO thus ending up the goaltender's area.
I've been impressed with some of the younger D-men to come up in recent years who have the potential for a well rounded game. I wouldn't want to clog up the roster with a pretty one dimensional d-man. He's a very good bottom pairing d-man but I think the money should be spent elsewhere.
Do you watch hockey? Did you watch the playoffs last year?
1 Gorges doesn't have a cannon and its not his role, he'll rarely see PP time because he's a beast on the PK.
2 Lidstrom doesn't have an impact hit either
3 You're right he's a bit small for the crease but his other strengths over balance this.
Every D man can't be Chara or Markov. Gorges has some intangibles that make him valuable to this team.
Do you watch hockey? Did you watch the playoffs last year?
1 Gorges doesn't have a cannon and its not his role, he'll rarely see PP time because he's a beast on the PK.
2 Lidstrom doesn't have an impact hit either
3 You're right he's a bit small for the crease but his other strengths over balance this.
Every D man can't be Chara or Markov. Gorges has some intangibles that make him valuable to this team.
I do watch hockey. Nowhere did I say he is a lousy d-man. The OP asked about longterm. I think he's too one dimensional to sign longterm for that amount of money.
Do you watch hockey? Did you watch the playoffs last year?
1 Gorges doesn't have a cannon and its not his role, he'll rarely see PP time because he's a beast on the PK.
2 Lidstrom doesn't have an impact hit either
3 You're right he's a bit small for the crease but his other strengths over balance this.
Every D man can't be Chara or Markov. Gorges has some intangibles that make him valuable to this team.
You could add that he almost never missed a game due ton injury!
I would definitely sign him long term, 4-5 years, as he is a very useful player. But I would look for Francis Bouillon money, somewhere between 1.5 and 2 per.
5-6 years, $12-15M, anything in that works for me. He's a $2-3M defenseman, solid second-pairing guy, good intangibles that trump his physical/skill limitations. Lock him up.
Yes, we need to lock him long term. I don't think you find a lot of Dman like him. I'm not sure there's even one in every teams of the league. I talk about courage, determination and dedication to his team (no skill set). He brings too much to the table.
He rarely makes mistakes, he blocks shots and he can take any kind of hits (even Gauthier's one!!!). He can play LD and RD woth any other dman (rookie, offensive, etc..).
I just love him, but the fact that he has 0 offense won't give him a big contract. So I say - like may others - something around 5y at $2.5-3M per.
He doesn't get injured often, consistent, young, and bring elements which is rare among our D core? I'd be all for signing him long term. He's the perfect #5 D who can eat top 4 min if needed (which we do quite often).
I wasn't necessarily saying from the Habs' system, just in general. I have no qualms about re-signing Gorges - just not longterm. The Habs' got Hal Gill through free agency.
No you said
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77
I've been impressed with some of the younger D-men to come up in recent years who have the potential for a well rounded game.
Since we don't have to close to have cap room to do anything that would get us a young "hybrid" player you like.
Gorges is a keeper for sure. Capable playing top 4 minutes and versatile enough to play his off side too. Solid defensively and even if he doesnt have the shot, hes a decent passer unlike pure stay at home defenders Gill or O'Byrne.
I'd give him 4 years / 1o million contract easily.
No you said
Since we don't have to close to have cap room to do anything that would get us a young "hybrid" player you like.
So who are they?
I don't think you are being fair, sorry. My post meant in general (Myers, Staal, Girardi) and not necessarily in the Habs' system . When I think of an inexpensive well rounded d-men I think of a Dennis Seidenberg type. He has a decent shot, blocks shots, hits with authority and is a good skater.
Please don't misunderstand. I like Josh Gorges. I just don't like him longterm. A one or two year contract IMO would be fine. I'd prefer the bottom pairing be open ended for the youngsters to develop.
I do watch hockey. Nowhere did I say he is a lousy d-man. The OP asked about longterm. I think he's too one dimensional to sign longterm for that amount of money.
The OP said he'd sign him for 2.8M over 5years.
How exactly is that too much money for a one dimensional top 4 D?..
Can you find me better defensive Dman than Gorges that are paid in the 2.5M range??..
I wasn't necessarily saying from the Habs' system, just in general. I have no qualms about re-signing Gorges - just not longterm. The Habs' got Hal Gill through free agency.
I admit I am more of a fan of hybrid d-men. With the salary cap I'd rather have a solid top 4 and skimp on the bottom pairing. The Habs' have been skimping on the top 4 and signing a bunch of bottom pairing d-men it seems the last few years which is why it seems there is a huge hill to climb when Markov goes down.
Good posts in this thread swimmer77. Especially this bolded part.
I'm also a fan of hybrid d-men. Not the biggest Gorges fan. Don't get me wrong, he's a heart and soul player, but he's so limited talent wise. He has absolutely zero offensive game and is at best average with his first pass. That means he's a stay at home dman, which is fine, except stay at home dmen usually are big or physically intimidating and often both. Gorges has an uphill battle to fight every game, every season.
At 2.5M he's 0.5M overpaid. And we could find any number of guys for 1M to 1.5M who would be able to do his job. I say get him on the cheap for as long as possible and let him walk if he gets greedy unless he's magic in the dressing room and that they think they can't do without that.
Also, I suspect that a lot of people are eventually going to come back down to earth concerning Gorges.
I don't think you are being fair, sorry. My post meant in general (Myers, Staal, Girardi) and not necessarily in the Habs' system . When I think of an inexpensive well rounded d-men I think of a Dennis Seidenberg type. He has a decent shot, blocks shots, hits with authority and is a good skater.
Please don't misunderstand. I like Josh Gorges. I just don't like him longterm. A one or two year contract IMO would be fine. I'd prefer the bottom pairing be open ended for the youngsters to develop.
Gorges is a young Dman. Why do you want to let a young very effective defensive Dman go, so you can make room for defensemen that aren't even going to bring anything close to what Gorges does?..
Make room for who exactly??...Weber and O'Byrne?..Fine, Hamrlik and Gill are set to become UFA, Spacek will the year after.
We don't need to let Gorges go, that would be incredibly stupid.
And really, who cares what Buffalo or NYR have in their system. It's not ours.
