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Old
07-20-2010, 03:52 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tprowse0804 View Post
Oh. And zajac broke into the league at the age gagner is now.
But when Zajac broke in, he had to fight his way up the depth chart of a Stanley cup Caliber team.

Getting time on the last place team isn't that hard.

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07-20-2010, 03:56 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Alan View Post
But when Zajac broke in, he had to fight his way up the depth chart of a Stanley cup Caliber team.

Getting time on the last place team isn't that hard.
Actually, that's not true. In Zajac's first season, the Devils had a void at centre. He was thrown straight into the top 6, sink or swim style. Clearly, he swam, and turned into our #1 centre within a few short years, itself an impressive achievement. But it's not like he started on the fourth line and worked his way up.

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07-20-2010, 05:02 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Tprowse0804 View Post
The facts I referred to were what they have done at what point of their career. Gagner missed some games last year and actually had his highest pts/gm. The opinion based on my facts, history of player development, and oilers change in culture is what you are referring to. Your facts however, are inacurate. Zajac had less points in his second year than his first. Also, never more than a goal in a post season. Ya. Wonder kid??? And oil fans overestimate gagner??? I'll give you the defensive game. I know that is what it's all about in jersey. He better keep it out of his net if he can't score in the playoffs.if zajacs 2 good years define him as a better player than gagner then doesn't his goal a year in the playoffs playing on a line with a stud like parise make him a playoff dud? Some oil fans may overrate gags career up to this point, but the expectations are more than 60+ points. Zajac is capped and his role is best suited as a second line centre with some offensive upside. I feel like I am blowing up gagner to maybe be more than he is or can be, and under-selling zajac, but in these two organizations whom have very different philosophies, zajac just doesn't demand more trade value than gags
Gagner's career high is 16 goals. Zajac's career LOW is 14. He scored 25 this season and 20 the year before.

Gagner has never once hit 50 points. Zajac has topped 60 two years in a row.

You people make it sound like Gagner is some kind of one-man offensive juggernaut. He had one great season in juniors and a pretty unspectacular NHL career thus far, while Zajac has been developing rapidly as both an offensive playmaker and a top tier defensive player.

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07-20-2010, 05:14 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Gagner's career high is 16 goals. Zajac's career LOW is 14. He scored 25 this season and 20 the year before.

Gagner has never once hit 50 points. Zajac has topped 60 two years in a row.

You people make it sound like Gagner is some kind of one-man offensive juggernaut. He had one great season in juniors and a pretty unspectacular NHL career thus far, while Zajac has been developing rapidly as both an offensive playmaker and a top tier defensive player.

do you appreciate how young gagner is? He's basically a player who for stretches during a season shows that PPG pace but then has other stretches where he doesn't put up many points, to most it simply looks like a young player on a poor team not having consistency, but his attitude is one that leads many to believe that he will eventually find that consistency and be a damned good centre.

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Old
07-20-2010, 05:14 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Tprowse0804 View Post
Am I in the twilight zone? These are facts not fiction. Sam gagner had better numbers at 18 than zajac did at 20. Try and follow math is the stats and science is the age and male rate of maturation. Is it an opinion that zajac has also played on the better team. The rest, well maybe some opinion along with the math and science. Take this as an opinion if you would like devils fans, but, kovalchuk was a bad signing. Good for regular season flash but remember me in the playoffs. Oh, and I would have zajac on my team any day! Just not for gags.
Yeah how about them playoffs?

This character reminds me of that episode of Family Guy when Peter has to choose between a boat and a Mystery Box, and he says, "The mystery box could be anything, it could even be a boat!".

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07-20-2010, 05:16 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Actually, that's not true. In Zajac's first season, the Devils had a void at centre. He was thrown straight into the top 6, sink or swim style. Clearly, he swam, and turned into our #1 centre within a few short years, itself an impressive achievement. But it's not like he started on the fourth line and worked his way up.
But to be fair, he had that stinker of a year where he was on the 4th line for most of the time.

Since then, he's been one cool slug.

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Old
07-20-2010, 05:17 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Gagner's career high is 16 goals. Zajac's career LOW is 14. He scored 25 this season and 20 the year before.

Gagner has never once hit 50 points. Zajac has topped 60 two years in a row.

You people make it sound like Gagner is some kind of one-man offensive juggernaut. He had one great season in juniors and a pretty unspectacular NHL career thus far, while Zajac has been developing rapidly as both an offensive playmaker and a top tier defensive player.
Zajac is older. At the age of 23, Zajac's career high was 42 points. Gagner's career high is 49 and he is only 20 .

Gagner will easily have 2 60 point seasons by the age of 25

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Old
07-20-2010, 06:37 PM
  #83
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when (if) Gagner puts up 60 points, come back to me

until then, its pure speculation

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07-20-2010, 06:46 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
when (if) Gagner puts up 60 points, come back to me

until then, its pure speculation
Any prediction is speculation. You predict that Zajac is going to get 60 points. Maybe last season was his one big offensive year, and he regresses? Its unlikely and I doubt it, but to predict any output by any player is speculation. Predictions based on skill are not just guesses a lot of the time either. Gagner is talented and has wicked hockey sense. He will be an offensive force.

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07-20-2010, 07:26 PM
  #85
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i think that gagner is one good season away from being a very good player in this league. IMO if he can show some chemistry with penner(if he hasn`t already) his numbers will skyrocket, it seems whenever i see him he gets muscled around alot. i don`t know if thats just the small sample size i have or not. i think in a few years both zajac and gagner will be very good players but for the moment the downgrade from zajac to gagner is not worth chorney and a second.

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Old
07-20-2010, 07:52 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by None Shall Pass View Post
Yeah how about them playoffs?

This character reminds me of that episode of Family Guy when Peter has to choose between a boat and a Mystery Box, and he says, "The mystery box could be anything, it could even be a boat!".
Yeah you're totally right... you know, if the mystery box had half a boat sticking out of it. You're acting like Gagner wasn't on pace to be our 2nd leading scorer at 20 years old (I don't care how ****** our team was, that's impressive) He isn't a prospect tearing it up in the OHL that's some unknown commodity. He's a prospect that out scored a 21 year old Travis at 18 years old. I'm not saying he'll be better then Zajac, but you're acting like we're talking about forth round pick Linus Omark here.

For those of you saying Gagner has not improved during the past few seasons, because his point totals have remained the same. You need to observe HOW he put up the points:

- During the first year, he had the best line mates against the weakest opposition and he bleed goals. The beginning of the year towards the middle was abysmal. Most of the points came at the end of the year, about 80% of them when the Oilers were virtually out of a playoff spot. He was about a point per game for the last 30 games, so that gives you an idea of how his points were separated during the year.

- His second year in the league he was given much tougher minutes, with worse line mates, yet his defensive game was much better. The points, however, again did not come till the final stretch of playing during the end of the year.

- This year, his defensive game once again improved, but not only that. His points per game avg, and goals per game avg both went up. He also spread the point getting out over the year, becoming much more consistent while having the same quality of line mates during the season BUT facing a MUCH tougher quality of competition (due to Hemsky being out most of the year, he was our third most dangerous offensive weapon therefore keyed on)

Gagner HAS improved. He's also only 20 years old. "He's a MUCH better player now then when he entered the league. Even if his stats don't show it."

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07-20-2010, 09:02 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Gagner's career high is 16 goals. Zajac's career LOW is 14. He scored 25 this season and 20 the year before.

Gagner has never once hit 50 points. Zajac has topped 60 two years in a row.

You people make it sound like Gagner is some kind of one-man offensive juggernaut. He had one great season in juniors and a pretty unspectacular NHL career thus far, while Zajac has been developing rapidly as both an offensive playmaker and a top tier defensive player.
Gagner's career low is 13. What's your point exactly? Nobody is arguing that Zajac is a better player right now. I don't think many even believe he's going to be a significantly better player down the road. Nobody is saying the Devils would/should do this deal. The argument is simply that Gagner fits the Oilers situation better, and projects to be more or less the same level of player as Zajac. What's the problem here?

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07-20-2010, 11:22 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Tprowse0804 View Post
Am I in the twilight zone? These are facts not fiction. Sam gagner had better numbers at 18 than zajac did at 20. Try and follow math is the stats and science is the age and male rate of maturation. Is it an opinion that zajac has also played on the better team. The rest, well maybe some opinion along with the math and science. Take this as an opinion if you would like devils fans, but, kovalchuk was a bad signing. Good for regular season flash but remember me in the playoffs. Oh, and I would have zajac on my team any day! Just not for gags.
Zajac had better stats at 24 then Henrik Sedin did at the same age - hence Zajac >>Sedin right???

Look I get that you're an Oil fan, and may be having a secret bromance with Gagne, and Gagne is a very good player with up side. But I would think the Oil brass jump at the opportunity to swap the 2. Zajac is a 25 year old 1st line center that is 6'3'', 200lbs, and plays an excellent 2 way game. Value wise Zajac is worth more then Gagne

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Old
07-21-2010, 01:13 AM
  #89
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Rolston + Henrique for a 3rd.

Oilers take on Rolston's contract and acquire Hall's Spitfire centerman in Henrique.

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Old
07-21-2010, 02:00 AM
  #90
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The Devils are not giving up Henrique just to dump Rolston. That is a ridiculous proposal.

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Old
07-21-2010, 02:09 AM
  #91
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With the jump in salaries in New Jersey a lot of experts say something's gotta give with the rest of the roster. The Oilers could be that team that has cap space to absorb salary and still provide decent return. So...

To Edmonton
Travis Zajac -- 3.888 cap hit
4th round pick 2011


To New Jersey
Sam Gagner -- est 2.00 cap hit
Taylor Chorney (2 way contract)
2nd round pick 2011

Jersey does this because they save 1.8 million in cap space. Gagner will be better in the 2nd line centre spot behind Arnott than he would be in Edmonton bouncing between 1st and 2nd line duty. Chorney will be a very good replacement for Paul Martin in the coming years.


Edmonton does this to gain better option for a number 1 centre than the current crop available
and so Cogliano can sleep better knowing those summer trade rumours are dead for at least another year.
feels like the type of trade that gets made these days... i doubt this one will, but the same people scoffing at it and joking how you can put away your nhl2010 are the same ones that post after trades get made and say 'team a got hosed.' and 'what a horrible deal for team b'

not too many people that take the time to post here, actually understand how trades work anymore.

throwing my two cents in... i doubt jersey does this unless they need to in order to sign paraise. jersey needs to win immediately before brodeur runs out of time so dealing for future isnt going to be their first choice of action.

look for them to pray for a miracle that they can dump off rolston somewhere. when that fails... they likely move someone like langenbrunner this year to get cap compliant. they dont have a gigantic cap problem this year. and langenbrunner is going to be an ufa anyhow. hes a leader there... but you do move him if you must to get kovalchuck signed.

and after that next year, the cap is a real mess... i guess youd probably look at moving elias and maybe even parise if parise's contract demands start getting north of 7.5

with the kovalchuck deal being outlawed... maybe its all a moot point now. at 6 caphit kovalchuck was a good fit... at 8-9 he is going to be too costly for an established team to find room in the budget

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Old
07-21-2010, 02:14 AM
  #92
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Zajac had better stats at 24 then Henrik Sedin did at the same age - hence Zajac >>Sedin right???

Look I get that you're an Oil fan, and may be having a secret bromance with Gagne, and Gagne is a very good player with up side. But I would think the Oil brass jump at the opportunity to swap the 2. Zajac is a 25 year old 1st line center that is 6'3'', 200lbs, and plays an excellent 2 way game. Value wise Zajac is worth more then Gagne
Couple things wrong here:

1. They weren't the same age, Gagner was younger then Zajac. Much younger.
2. Look at their pedigree coming into the league as prospects. Gagner was a 6th overall pick, Sedin was a top 2. (not that draft position is everything, but for the argument you're making, it's a factor)
3. Simon Gagne and Sam Gagner are two different people.

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07-21-2010, 03:08 AM
  #93
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Zajac does not play with Kovalchuk, and he is not likely to play with Kovalchuk. Zajac plays with Parise and they have ridiculous chemistry, Devils fans call them "The Wonder Twins" for a reason.

Kovalchuk will probably play with Arnott and Elias or with Josefson.

Just to clarify.
Ahh yes Oilers had a center that improved every year as well and had a high 70 pt season and much better defensivley than Zajac and a better face off man and a allstar and he played with Hemsky not as good as Parise. Horcoff get it nj Zajac is overated feeding off a great winger. Gagner has way more upside Tambo would not take Zajac straight up lol

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07-21-2010, 03:16 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Gagner's career high is 16 goals. Zajac's career LOW is 14. He scored 25 this season and 20 the year before.

Gagner has never once hit 50 points. Zajac has topped 60 two years in a row.

You people make it sound like Gagner is some kind of one-man offensive juggernaut. He had one great season in juniors and a pretty unspectacular NHL career thus far, while Zajac has been developing rapidly as both an offensive playmaker and a top tier defensive player.
He is 20 u fool and has 3 years allready and has more points than kessel his first 3 years at a younger age. and his points are better than Zajac at those ages and Sedin so I guess Gagner potential >>>Sedin >>>Zajac but he is not at their level yet but could easily get there .

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07-21-2010, 03:35 AM
  #95
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Gagner will easily be a better player than Zajac.

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07-21-2010, 04:07 AM
  #96
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As an Oiler fan, sometimes I feel like the cool kid whos dragged down by having nerdy friends.

We wouldn't trade Gagner straight up for Zajac when our biggest need is a #1 center?

Makes sense. In.... in crazy land or something. It makes sense on opposite day. Well today isn't opposite day, opposite day was 3 weeks ago. Of course we would trade Gagner of Zajac. And then we'd send a bouquet of flowers to the NJ hospital because the only way Lou would push the button on that trade was if he accidentally hit it while having a stroke.

Some of you Oiler fans on here. Honestly. Stop.

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07-21-2010, 04:25 AM
  #97
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As an Oiler fan, sometimes I feel like the cool kid whos dragged down by having nerdy friends.

We wouldn't trade Gagner straight up for Zajac when our biggest need is a #1 center?

Makes sense. In.... in crazy land or something. It makes sense on opposite day. Well today isn't opposite day, opposite day was 3 weeks ago. Of course we would trade Gagner of Zajac. And then we'd send a bouquet of flowers to the NJ hospital because the only way Lou would push the button on that trade was if he accidentally hit it while having a stroke.

Some of you Oiler fans on here. Honestly. Stop.
Zajac glorified shawn Horcoff and Gagner is 20 and will be a num 1.

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07-21-2010, 06:14 AM
  #98
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Gagner will easily be a better player than Zajac.
Can you also tell me the next lottery numbers?

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07-21-2010, 09:42 AM
  #99
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As an Oiler fan, sometimes I feel like the cool kid whos dragged down by having nerdy friends.

We wouldn't trade Gagner straight up for Zajac when our biggest need is a #1 center?

Makes sense. In.... in crazy land or something. It makes sense on opposite day. Well today isn't opposite day, opposite day was 3 weeks ago. Of course we would trade Gagner of Zajac. And then we'd send a bouquet of flowers to the NJ hospital because the only way Lou would push the button on that trade was if he accidentally hit it while having a stroke.

Some of you Oiler fans on here. Honestly. Stop.
THANK YOU!!! I don't get this intense love affair with Gagner by Oiler fans, my goodness, we can only hope that one day he will be the player that Zajac is now and Zajac will only get better. Also, Zajac is 6'3 and is very good defensively in addition to his offensive skills, he is EXACTLY what the Oilers need but the Devils wouldn't trade him for Gagner in a million years.

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07-21-2010, 10:07 AM
  #100
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Quote:
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Ahh yes Oilers had a center that improved every year as well and had a high 70 pt season and much better defensivley than Zajac and a better face off man and a allstar and he played with Hemsky not as good as Parise. Horcoff get it nj Zajac is overated feeding off a great winger. Gagner has way more upside Tambo would not take Zajac straight up lol
Zajac and Parise clearly make each other better, statistics support it. It's not just Parise making Zajac look good, Zajac is a good player in his own right. In the past, Zajac's weakness was his shot. He has greatly improved it since then.

And Horcoff has never been "much better" defensively than Zajac. I don't think you understand just how good Zajac is defensively. He's always high in the Selke voting for a reason, and he might win if it wasn't always given to Datsyuk.

He's already the best defensive centre I have ever seen on the Devils, a team known for producing great defensive forwards. That includes Holik and Madden in their primes; Zajac is better.

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