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Old
03-09-2011, 08:54 AM
  #376
gleanerguy
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I'm not the one to whom you have to make the case. They've spent $1 million (you say, 1.5, believe you're taking liberties with that figure), with the theory they can make it back through sponsorships, beer sales, board advertising and such. So they're investing money, rather than spending it.
Right now, sponsorship, fan interest, is down. New building or not, it will be a tough sell until the program gets competitive again. Once they get back into a position where they can compete every night and make the product better, bring sponsors and alumni back, they may be in a position to reassess. But, if you go on the basis that full time hockey coaches make $60,000 and assistants $40,000, you're adding another $160,000 (plus expenses and benefits) to the bottom line of a hockey program for a small school.

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Old
03-09-2011, 09:15 AM
  #377
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Funding & Living Within Financial Means!

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Originally Posted by cookiecutter View Post
To Gleaner guy; I would challange you when you say we need to live within our means and quote the number of students at STU. It is not the students who pay for the hockey programs. If that were true students should be up in arms over the tution costs. So the money comes from other sources. I am sure UNB guys bring in tons at the gate. So if there is tons of money at STU, living within our means got easier did it not? We just invested 1.5M, why not hire full time for both programs? It would only cost about an extra 120k per year max. You already have the coaches salary for the men, plus, I assume a part time salary for the ladies, so all you are looking at is topping up the female side and hiring an assistant full time for the guys. Surly a full time assistant could help the recruiting side for the guys.
These are 2007/2008 figures for government grant $ for University's in the AUS from a low of 10,027-UdeM to a high of 15,245-Acadia,St.Thomas is 11,052.
Now each school has roughly the same expenses for their teams with travel being plus or minus the same for everybody,
Every team has that majic number of full rides the should be no more than the total individual grant per student athlete ie 15,245 for Acadia and 11,052 St.Thomas student athletes which covers EVERYTHING in each case and so it is NOT that a student at Acadia is getting more from their school than the student athlete at St.Thomas ie they are both getting the same ie EVERYTHING.
I suppose each school has academic funding grants for each deserving players at their schools and it is my sence that many school have nothing but genius.s in their lineups justifying the extra compensation.
In my view it is not a money,rink nor program availability issue but rather the need of a solid recruiting plan for getting those student athletes to STU in sufficient numbers and retaining those students.
It has been done before at STU and will be done again.
In spite of allegations to the contrary about me and my motivations,I believe that the process currently underway will result in a better and successful outcome.

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Old
03-10-2011, 07:37 AM
  #378
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No, Gleaner guy, as I stated you would be ADDING, using your figures, and additional 80k to the system. The coaches there already make money. So if men get 60 now and female get 20 now, then you would need to add 40 to bring female to full time and 40 for an assistant. Also the 1.5M you claim to be high are figures(approx.) from your paper. $400 plus for rink rights and $1M for space, equipment, coaches rooms etc. I read that in the Glearner, did I not? I realize I do not have to convince you. I have no influence over the STU decision, but you report things. You fail to realize you influence things. So are my figures fairly accurate or are they dreamed up numbers?

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Old
03-10-2011, 09:01 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by cookiecutter View Post
No, Gleaner guy, as I stated you would be ADDING, using your figures, and additional 80k to the system. The coaches there already make money. So if men get 60 now and female get 20 now, then you would need to add 40 to bring female to full time and 40 for an assistant. Also the 1.5M you claim to be high are figures(approx.) from your paper. $400 plus for rink rights and $1M for space, equipment, coaches rooms etc. I read that in the Glearner, did I not? I realize I do not have to convince you. I have no influence over the STU decision, but you report things. You fail to realize you influence things. So are my figures fairly accurate or are they dreamed up numbers?
Separate salary for the AD. Say $60,000. New separate salary for the hockey coach. New separate salary for the women's hockey coach, more than the stipend or allowance or whatever he gets now. New separate salry for the assistant.
Not sure where you get the $400,000 figure for the rink rights...not a figure I'm familiar with. They're investing, according to the people I've talked to, a little more than a million in the facility.
The numbers you and I throw around in here are irrelevant anyway...they're not going to commit to a full time assistant for the men's program and a full time women's hockey coach.
In the minds of the administration, they're making a major concession even with this step. They could easily, as they've done in the past, simply ignore the problem and let it continue. They're addressing the problem. As I've said before, they don't consider the women's program a problem...they've got a hard working, committed individual who recruits well and ices a competitive hockey team. If they could get the same thing on the men's side, they'd be happy and most of their alumni would be too.
Of course there are some who will never be happy...

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Old
03-10-2011, 10:16 AM
  #380
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Of course there are some who will never be happy...
There is still a lunatic fringe out there who believe if you're going to play, then play to win.

I can fully accept the fact that it's a process, and will take time. But I don't accept that "just being competitive" is an acceptable goal. If you're not "in it to win it" then you do the sport, the school, community, alumni and your athletes a disservice.

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Old
03-10-2011, 10:59 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by STUpid View Post
There is still a lunatic fringe out there who believe if you're going to play, then play to win.

I can fully accept the fact that it's a process, and will take time. But I don't accept that "just being competitive" is an acceptable goal. If you're not "in it to win it" then you do the sport, the school, community, alumni and your athletes a disservice.


Couldn't agree more. If you're happy with mediocrity, than that's what you're going to get. UNB always talks about getting better, finding ways to achieve that goal. That should be the motto for any school wishing to play at the CIS level....

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Old
03-10-2011, 11:01 AM
  #382
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It's a start. Walk before you run. STU has been to one nationals in their history, where they went 0-2. Everybody seemed quite happy in the Larry Wood/Al MacAdam/Derryl Smith era, when winning wasn't necessarily a reality every night, but was at least a possibility. Step 1 is getting it back to that level.

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Old
03-11-2011, 06:36 AM
  #383
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I think a new thread needs to be started to discuss a much needed rest. From my perspective herre is what I am left to believe are points of contention;
I believe that STU announced two figures of what the move to the new rink cost 1M and then also announced another figure of approx 400k in addition, Gleaner guy disagrees, but I believe I read those figures in his newspaper! For the record, I am in agreement with spending those dollars. The female teame "attracts" western and European players because of the money (academic scholarships) offered. X and SMU also have money to offer, but not the kind to attract Europeans. MT.A and others do not have that kind of money. I am not opposed to having that money to offer. Having said these things and no one proving otherwise, I say hire full time coaches. Gleaner guy says stay where we are with coaches and move to that level when we show success in the middle of the pack. The jury (this forum) appears still out on the Gleaner positioning the Bizz to be the new coach by approaching him to get ink in the paper.
See you on the new thread. It has been a slice....oh yes and NS Allowed is a girly man.

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Old
03-11-2011, 08:27 AM
  #384
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We've been over all this ground CC. Nobody "positioned" Bizz. I plan to take the next step in pursuing this story, but as you may have noticed, there's a little bit going on locally that has taken precedence.
You can say what you want about thinking they should take the step to a full time women's coach -- you're wasting oxygen. It's not on their radar. It's not going to happen. But, go ahead, start a new thread, a women's group, whatever. You are a stubborn woman.

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Old
03-11-2011, 09:36 AM
  #385
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This may be the most boring thread ever...how many times does the same things just get repeated

cookiecutter we know you would like to see a full time coach for the womens team and a head coach and assistant for the mens..you made that point about 20 times we get it.

gleanerguy - you write for the paper I'd assume so you have a bigger platform to get ideas out. We know you think Eric Bizz is a top candidate for the job, you also state he isn't the only one but he does seem to be the main focus.


Can we not move along to some other topic

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Old
03-11-2011, 09:54 AM
  #386
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You Asked For It!

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Originally Posted by TYayo View Post
This may be the most boring thread ever...how many times does the same things just get repeated

cookiecutter we know you would like to see a full time coach for the womens team and a head coach and assistant for the mens..you made that point about 20 times we get it.

gleanerguy - you write for the paper I'd assume so you have a bigger platform to get ideas out. We know you think Eric Bizz is a top candidate for the job, you also state he isn't the only one but he does seem to be the main focus.


Can we not move along to some other topic
How does being a 6th round NHL draft choice,4th liner qualify anybody to be an Athletic Director?At any institution of higher learning it DOESN't.

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Old
03-11-2011, 10:14 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by rantfather View Post
How does being a 6th round NHL draft choice,4th liner qualify anybody to be an Athletic Director?At any institution of higher learning it DOESN't.
Thanks!

I guess there is a couple things..You would have to agree those are pretty good qualifications for being the hockey coach. I think he was in the show for what almost 15 years and most good coaches werent the best players in their day. It is the 4th line tweener guys that are dedicated and use hockey sense not skill to keep them there...And you can't coach skill but you can coach the other things.
As for him being the AD, I also think it's pretty common for any business to promote from within...so even if he isn't the most qualified for the job as AD I always thought he may get it. (Same as say a Bank Cashier getting promoted to Assistant Manager or something along those lines...happens quite ofter)

What about the other programs...I know back when I was going to STU I heard the mens Basketball team complain quite a bit about how the mens hockey teams stick fund alone was more than the entire basketball team got. Now with the hockey coach being the AD things surely aren't looking up.

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Old
03-11-2011, 11:34 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by rantfather View Post
How does being a 6th round NHL draft choice,4th liner qualify anybody to be an Athletic Director?At any institution of higher learning it DOESN't.
mike has been getting good reviews as AD, especially with the Andrew Bartlett tragedy and how he handled it. Qualifications are overrated if you have a passion for the job. I ask you probably for the 1000th time but you keep doding the question, what is your deal with Eagles? You seem to be attacking his AD quals, did he beat you out and you cant handle it?

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Old
03-11-2011, 03:34 PM
  #389
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mike has been getting good reviews as AD, especially with the Andrew Bartlett tragedy and how he handled it. Qualifications are overrated if you have a passion for the job. I ask you probably for the 1000th time but you keep doding the question, what is your deal with Eagles? You seem to be attacking his AD quals, did he beat you out and you cant handle it?
rantfather, he's no longer the head coach, so move on with it. You need not always have to have letters behind your name to do a decent job, and from a lot that's been said from the other teams, he did a good job as the AD....he was there when teams needed him, and nobody supported the other teams more faithfully. the president of the university said experience is the job means more than academic credentials. STU athletics are better with mike being in the role that he's in now. As a recruiter for its hockey program, don't disagree that Mike just didn't have it...we get that!!!

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Old
03-12-2011, 08:36 AM
  #390
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who is doing the recruiting right now? or no one

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Old
03-12-2011, 01:36 PM
  #391
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who is doing the recruiting right now? or no one
I dare you to tell the difference

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Old
03-12-2011, 05:38 PM
  #392
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Quote:
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who is doing the recruiting right now? or no one
Eagles had done some recruiting before he was "relieved of duties."

Chris Morehouse, a top notch Squirrel irritator, will be eligible to suit up with the Tommies in mid to late November.

Sebastian Bernier, defenceman, can play for STU after Christmas.

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Old
03-17-2011, 07:35 PM
  #393
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So we know that Pat Powers, Eric Bissonnette and Jason O'Leary have submitted their applications. Anyone know of anyone else who may have put their hat in the ring? Does Tom Coolen have any interest?

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Old
03-17-2011, 08:25 PM
  #394
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So we know that Pat Powers, Eric Bissonnette and Jason O'Leary have submitted their applications. Anyone know of anyone else who may have put their hat in the ring? Does Tom Coolen have any interest?
He says No.

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Old
03-17-2011, 09:05 PM
  #395
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Stu

It would be nice to have someone familiar with the WHL, create a pipeline.
St FX and Acadia have created that, with the Axemen having many recruits like Clark, Bruton coming out of Manitoba and X with Bast,Claffey,Mcavoy out of Sask and many others such as Undershute and Louis out of Alberta. You can always recruit in the Q with many teams within 2-4 hrs from Freddy.

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Old
03-19-2011, 05:30 AM
  #396
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I see Saint Marys cut their womens hockey program.....now if we could get rid of UPEI and MTA there could be a decent 4 team league...except I think even Moncton runs out of gas this year. SMU players are free to transfer ame as UNB did. Finally saw a decent game at UNB last night

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Old
03-20-2011, 09:57 AM
  #397
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
So we know that Pat Powers, Eric Bissonnette and Jason O'Leary have submitted their applications. Anyone know of anyone else who may have put their hat in the ring? Does Tom Coolen have any interest?
Is it true that there has been c50 applications for the now vacant Men's hockey coach position and if so why are they not being made public in keeping with the process being open and transparent or has a decision been taken to not publish and to limit an otherwise healthy debate on the subject?
This does nothing to advance a more open participatory community involvement in the process which has had a far too long exclusionary one.

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Old
03-20-2011, 10:01 AM
  #398
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The final number I'm hearing is 20 applicants; they'll ramp up the process with a conference call early next week and go from there.
I wouldn't expect full disclosure at this stage...you have 20 people, with 20 different employment situations and they and their employer might not appreciate them having their names out there for public debate.
Also...it's not a fan or alumni vote. You have to trust the committee to pick the best candidate and make the best hire.

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Old
03-20-2011, 11:18 AM
  #399
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This does nothing to advance a more open participatory community involvement in the process which has had a far too long exclusionary one.
there is a selection committee for that. Should be enough people and the alumni is represented. The entire community dosent get a say because one person from that community will have a say

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Old
03-21-2011, 10:15 AM
  #400
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who is doing the recruiting right now? or no one
Eagles hired Kyle McCallister to do some recruiting at the start of the year.

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