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The Hamilton Bulldogs have a new head coach; Randy Cunneyworth

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Old
07-24-2010, 05:27 AM
  #251
Kimota
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Originally Posted by mtl_felix View Post
Canadiens hire a french coach: "That was the obvious choice! Best candidate by far!"
Canadiens hire a non-french coach: "Bad choice! Our french coaches are much better!"

Clearly to be able to say they're much better choices, they'd have to know the other coaches too.
Why is Cunneyworth a bad choice?
Nobody said Cunneyworth was a bad coach.

For myself it's just a matter of giving the chance to a coach of this province to graduate. It's all it is. I never said anything about "better".

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07-24-2010, 05:32 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Max Levine View Post
I understand the frustration among french quebecers. After all, Pierre Boivin is the one who said the organization would emphasize on the hiring of french elements (or quebecers). Funny to see the Lightning giving the impression of going in that direction, lol

When I first heard the news of Cunneyworth/Ladouceur being hired, I saw it as a pretty good move. It is quite normal that Gauthier/Martin, or anyone else, would try to duplicate previous success. Dominic Moore was picked up because Martin was aware of his value. Cunneyworth's playing style corresponds perfectly to JM's preferences. Reading how Randy's coaching style conforms to Lindy Ruff's and thus made for an easier transition for the youngsters in the Sabres organization made me think that Martin was surely looking for the same result.

My main concern goes along the same thought process of Whitesnake: the Randys are old style. Quite the opposite of what has been implemented last season with tremendous success.

Personally, I don't care much about a coach statistics in the AHL. Sure, winning is important; fans want to see their team being successful. But this team is used first and foremost for the development of young players. Coaches success should be examined through that development. I asked, last year, if Boucher would be able to obtain the same kind of results in the NHL because I saw him as an educator; the perfect development instructor. I still believe that is what our farm team coaches must be. Are the Randys specialized in development and teaching? Or were they hired to implement the same style of play JM is using? Is the latter course of action the ideal strategy to get the best results from youngsters aiming at a NHL career?

One thought I had concerned Sergei Kostitsyn. How could it be that SK accepted Boucher's directives (mind you, I am only assuming but it seemed like it) but, when he returned to JM and the Habs, he still couldn't deal with the authority? There was little doubt in my mind that Boucher would have been able to get the best of SK while Martin was failing. Was the transition poorly administered? Was this an element that Gauthier/Martin were considering when shopping for the Bulldogs coaching staff? Individuals who would impose the same coaching style, procedure, technique?
That post makes me realise my regret more and more of Boucher's departure. Such a great developer with a new progressive style. Perfect for a young squad. It's true that success in junior are not everything, especially in an environment where winning is not everything but progressing as a player is.

If they wanted old school, they might just have picked up the phone and ring Bob Hartley.

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07-24-2010, 07:05 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
That post makes me realise my regret more and more of Boucher's departure. Such a great developer with a new progressive style. Perfect for a young squad. It's true that success in junior are not everything, especially in an environment where winning is not everything but progressing as a player is.

If they wanted old school, they might just have picked up the phone and ring Bob Hartley.
And at the first stumble from his coach, PG would have been stuck with the media suggesting Hartley replacing Martin. It's very nice that they found a goalie they knew from before who could do the job as backup. But let's be honest: they chose not to go for Biron or anyone the media could have suggested as #1 for the sole purpose of avoiding this debate. They're safer with the Randys than they would have ever been with Bob Hartley or Dany Dube.

Of course, that doesn't take anything away from the Randys qualifications. But maybe, just maybe, this was taken into consideration.

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07-24-2010, 04:14 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Max Levine View Post
And at the first stumble from his coach, PG would have been stuck with the media suggesting Hartley replacing Martin. It's very nice that they found a goalie they knew from before who could do the job as backup. But let's be honest: they chose not to go for Biron or anyone the media could have suggested as #1 for the sole purpose of avoiding this debate. They're safer with the Randys than they would have ever been with Bob Hartley or Dany Dube.

Of course, that doesn't take anything away from the Randys qualifications. But maybe, just maybe, this was taken into consideration.
I couldn't see Hartley even wanting coach in Hamilton anyways to be honest.

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07-24-2010, 04:23 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Max Levine View Post
I understand the frustration among french quebecers. After all, Pierre Boivin is the one who said the organization would emphasize on the hiring of french elements (or quebecers). Funny to see the Lightning giving the impression of going in that direction, lol
Ironically, if Yzerman was the Habs GM he would be critizised for not being french.

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07-24-2010, 09:35 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Nobody said Cunneyworth was a bad coach.

For myself it's just a matter of giving the chance to a coach of this province to graduate. It's all it is. I never said anything about "better".
Fair enough.
But the habs do not have to be the team giving chances to coaches from the Q. That shouldn't be their "responsability".

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07-24-2010, 11:24 PM
  #257
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Cunningworth hiring

He may be a good coach but Gauthier hired someone who he`s worked with before. I would have giving a chance to Chuck Weber from Cincinnati or Tourigny. New generation coaches. New philosophy. Someone like Boucher. I have a hard time following new Habs` management philosophy. What direction do they want to take? First trading Halak withpout even signing Price. When will they sign Price?

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07-24-2010, 11:41 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by sXe View Post
Ironically, if Yzerman was the Habs GM he would be critizised for not being french.
I don't believe that. Yzerman was admired as a player even among Montreal french fans or media. Add those same changes he's already done in Tampa and he would have been revered as a God without being able to say 'bonjour', 'merci beaucoup' or 'je suis Stevie ****ing Yzerman'.

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07-24-2010, 11:43 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Max Levine View Post
I don't believe that. Yzerman was admired as a player even among Montreal french fans or media. Add those same changes he's already done in Tampa and he would have been revered as a God without being able to say 'bonjour', 'merci beaucoup' or 'je suis Stevie ****ing Yzerman'.
Yeah you're right. Bob gainey was admired as a player even among Montreal french... oh wait. you were talking about Yzerman. My mistake.



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Old
07-24-2010, 11:54 PM
  #260
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Yeah you're right. Bob gainey was admired as a player even among Montreal french... oh wait. you were talking about Yzerman. My mistake.


I fail to understand your sarcasm. Wasn't Gainey criticized in the english media as well? Even on this board, he was criticized an awful lot. You seem to identify Montreal french media criticizing an english player/manager as a language issue in all cases. Generalizations will rarely lead to logical opinions.

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07-25-2010, 12:34 AM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Nobody said Cunneyworth was a bad coach.

For myself it's just a matter of giving the chance to a coach of this province to graduate. It's all it is. I never said anything about "better".
I agree with you Kimota, but why should Montreal be the only ones to do so? Why should they be the only ones responsible on taking a gamble with a provincial coach? They did it last year with Guy Boucher and that was very good for his career yes, but now Montreal needs a coach with experience, and a good pedigree to work on our Youngsters. I don't think any of the coaches in the Q were up to that challenge yet.

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07-25-2010, 01:18 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by mtl_felix View Post
Fair enough.
But the habs do not have to be the team giving chances to coaches from the Q. That shouldn't be their "responsability".
I think it should be.

It goes back to what I talked about in other threads that the Habs are too detached from this society. They come off too much as "just another team" while being closer to it, it could help them on the long run. I mean you have millions of little boys hoping to be a Hab, millions of guys that likes hockey willing to help this organization. Yet the Habs close their heads, put their hands over their ears and say bla bla bla and act like secretive sect that only want to think their way. Hell Gauthier pretty much admited to it(stays in hs hotel room, doesn't watch tv to get himself influenced, etc...).

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07-25-2010, 01:26 AM
  #263
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I agree with you Kimota, but why should Montreal be the only ones to do so? Why should they be the only ones responsible on taking a gamble with a provincial coach?
Because if they don't, nobody will. You hire who you know. And only the guys that worked in the Q, that have known guys in the Q will hire guys from the Q. And that's not a whole lot of GMs in the league. Therrien got hired by the Pens because of Mario. Hartley because the Habs were run by frenchies back then. And Hartley had to take the first job he was offered when he was fired by the Avs when he went to Atlanta because even though they were a crappy team, he had no other choices because he knew nobody else would have hired him because of his background.

Quote:
They did it last year with Guy Boucher and that was very good for his career yes, but now Montreal needs a coach with experience, and a good pedigree to work on our Youngsters. I don't think any of the coaches in the Q were up to that challenge yet.
Why do we suddenly need something different when Boucher was perfect? The perfect model to developing these young guys.

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07-25-2010, 02:13 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
Just to throw in some fun facts.

In Cunneyworth's time in Rochester, he helped a great deal in the development of Gaustad, Vanek, Pominville, Roy, etc.... Not to mention hes worked with Tavares and Eric Staal already. He knows how to develop young kids.
To expand on ^this^ point, here is a list of player and their games played under Cunneyworth:

Brian Campbell - 110 GP
Ales Kotalik - 76 GP
Henrik Tallinder - 73 GP
Paul Gaustad - 234 GP
Jason Pominville - 235 GP
Ryan Miller - 172 GP
Derek Roy - 161 GP
Thomas Vanek - 74 GP
Clarke MacArthur - 163 GP
Patrick Kaletta - 87 GP
David Booth - 25 GP
Drew Stafford - 34 GP

Obviously, it's hard to say that he was the main reason for each of their developments into NHL regulars, but he definitely did not stunt their development either.

The Habs couldn't stop Boucher from leaving, so they luckily found a coach who has had some success at developing players into NHL regulars.

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07-25-2010, 09:00 AM
  #265
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Nitanny I am still waiting for you to tell me about Cunneyworth's coaching style and abilities. I thought you knew him so well, where is the analysis? You've disappeared since I've asked you the question.

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07-25-2010, 09:22 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Nobody said Cunneyworth was a bad coach.

For myself it's just a matter of giving the chance to a coach of this province to graduate. It's all it is. I never said anything about "better".

It's sad though. Cause being better is really what it should be about..

This is a professional league we are talking about. Results matter most. Do you want a french canadian coach getting an opportunity and doing a decent job in the AHL or do you want the best possible candidate to develop our young talent, no matter where he comes from?

For me, it all comes down to who is the best (in the organization's eyes at least)

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07-25-2010, 09:30 AM
  #267
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I think it should be.
It goes back to what I talked about in other threads that the Habs are too detached from this society. They come off too much as "just another team" while being closer to it, it could help them on the long run. I mean you have millions of little boys hoping to be a Hab, millions of guys that likes hockey willing to help this organization. Yet the Habs close their heads, put their hands over their ears and say bla bla bla and act like secretive sect that only want to think their way. Hell Gauthier pretty much admited to it(stays in hs hotel room, doesn't watch tv to get himself influenced, etc...).
Big mistake if you start doing that. Does the Leafs only hire guys from Ontario? Canucks from BC? You limit your self to a small population by doing that, thus propably hiring someone less competent than another guy available. Who says the best coach available was from the Q? In fact, I doubt he was.

You get hired because you are good, period. Boucher had multiple offers last year including assistant coach in Edmonton. Boucher would have gotten hired even without the Habs. It is NOT true that guys from the Q only get chances from the Habs. Be good, and you will be noticed and hired, as simple as that.

You think all guys from Ontario dream of helping the Leafs? Life does not work that way. Once you are hired, you do your best for the organization that hired you, does not matter if its the Habs or the Trashers! Do you have a job? How old are you? It would explain some of your comments!

What you wrote could be said about every single NHL canadian team and does not make any sense. Sorry, but that is a fact.

Did it ever occur to you that Quebec is very behind in its hockey programs and development vs. the rest of Canada? That our guys are probably not as good (players and coaches, with a few rare exception)? Honestly, who cares that they all want to be a Habs, they are not the best out there in general. It's not fun admiting these things being from Quebec myself, but recognizing our poor hockey programs would be the first step in improving them. Hiring only from the Q would probably make the Habs even worse in the long run. I don't understand why people don't understand that???

If Michel bergeron said so, than the truth as to be the oppsosite

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07-25-2010, 09:38 AM
  #268
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Because if they don't, nobody will. You hire who you know. And only the guys that worked in the Q, that have known guys in the Q will hire guys from the Q. And that's not a whole lot of GMs in the league. Therrien got hired by the Pens because of Mario. Hartley because the Habs were run by frenchies back then. And Hartley had to take the first job he was offered when he was fired by the Avs when he went to Atlanta because even though they were a crappy team, he had no other choices because he knew nobody else would have hired him because of his background.



Why do we suddenly need something different when Boucher was perfect? The perfect model to developing these young guys.
Because Boucher was unique and there are no others like him in the Q right now. Sometimes, the explanation is simple and right in your face.

Therrien got hired because of Mario? Ya right

And Julien? Vignault?

Good french hockey minds will get hired no matter what if they are GOOD.

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07-25-2010, 12:24 PM
  #269
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Because Boucher was unique and there are no others like him in the Q right now. Sometimes, the explanation is simple and right in your face.

Therrien got hired because of Mario? Ya right

And Julien? Vignault?

Good french hockey minds will get hired no matter what if they are GOOD.
That still doesn't explain why Therrien managed to have 2 NHL jobs. He's one of the worst coaches I have ever seen.

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07-25-2010, 12:35 PM
  #270
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That still doesn't explain why Therrien managed to have 2 NHL jobs. He's one of the worst coaches I have ever seen.
Coaches have different styles and sometimes a certain style is needed more than another to make your team progress in a certain direction.

Pitts was a club house joke mentality before Therrien was hired there. He was hired for is very tough style and to install hard work and discipline in that locker room. That is what was needed there at that time and that is exactly what he did. Once that was in place, Pitts made the switch to Bylsma to complete the work.

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07-25-2010, 02:00 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Because if they don't, nobody will. You hire who you know. And only the guys that worked in the Q, that have known guys in the Q will hire guys from the Q. And that's not a whole lot of GMs in the league. Therrien got hired by the Pens because of Mario. Hartley because the Habs were run by frenchies back then. And Hartley had to take the first job he was offered when he was fired by the Avs when he went to Atlanta because even though they were a crappy team, he had no other choices because he knew nobody else would have hired him because of his background.



Why do we suddenly need something different when Boucher was perfect? The perfect model to developing these young guys.
Why should it be the responsibility of the Habs to sign French coaches only? Its not like gym class where you pick who you know, its a business and you go with the smart business decision, you don't go with who you think deserves a promotion in life. Other teams in the NHL if they do their homework right will have candidates from the Q to be AHL, Asisstant coaches, and so on.

Just because Montreal is the only team in Quebec, doesn't mean they should forget that they run a business, I would be more upset if they hired a french coach who was much less qualified than the Anglo/Swede/Russian coach we could have signed, and our reason would have been because hes french. To me thats unprofessional and ludicrous, you don't hire people just because they are your neighbour. Guy Boucher was a no brainer to hire, he had already accomplished some impressive feats, and did amazingly well in his first year as an AHL coach, he was the best coach available last year imo.

This year it was Cunneyworth and I think it was a good move. I too was also on the Chuck Weber bandwagon, but I'm convinced Cunneyworth will do great things.


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07-26-2010, 04:08 PM
  #272
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You people really don't know who Randy Cunneyworth is? Are people really that young on this site or am I old?

As for his coaching, his AHL resume looks pretty good.
I was thinking the same thing when reading the comments.....Guess we are a couple of oldies in a world of kiddies!

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07-26-2010, 04:55 PM
  #273
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Has the assistant coaches been hired yet?

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07-27-2010, 12:03 PM
  #274
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The guy only stopped playing 10 years ago, are there posters here that are 8 years old? If people here don't know who Randy is they should stop following hockey or buy an Almanac.
No kidding.

Cunneyworth will make a solid coach for the Bulldogs. He never took a shift off when he played, so hard work will be expected from his players.

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07-27-2010, 12:11 PM
  #275
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Can we all remember that Hamilton is in Ontario and is more than just the AHL affiliate of the Habs, its a team with its own fan base as well.

If the prerequisite for a coach and GM of the Habs is to be french speaking, isnt it logical to assume the Bulldog fans would want an English speaking coach.

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